Grease


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MoreIsLess
July 21, 2012, 08:53 AM
What are your thoughts on using grease to lubricate polymer guns (lubriplate and shooters choice come to mind). Or, is grease only necessary for all metal guns or is it necessary at all on either type guns. My Sig 226 came with a small tube of grease supplied by the mfgr

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One_Jackal
July 21, 2012, 09:52 AM
The downside of grease is oil turns it into a milky substance. If you lubricate your guns with only grease they will last longer

ku4hx
July 21, 2012, 10:22 AM
Traditionally, if it slides grease it; if it turns oil it. Some guns are truly grease guns and some just don't need it.

Generally the manufacture's advice is pretty good.

jr_roosa
July 21, 2012, 10:37 AM
I used grease until I started having failures in the cooler weather on one of my guns (a 22 pistol). Now I just use oil for pistols, specifically eezox. For a carry gun the grease spreads and ends up on clothes whereas I have less of an issue with oil.

Rifles still get grease on sliding interfaces.

J.

kokapelli
July 21, 2012, 10:54 AM
Traditionally, if it slides grease it; if it turns oil it.
What about wheel bearings?

barstoolguru
July 21, 2012, 11:02 AM
what you have to remember is grease attracts dirt and burnt powder so it best to keep it at a minim. Your gun is not your car, you don't have to pack the bearings and grease the fittings' the parts on a gun really move very little and have somewhat loose tolerances. lubiplate is an excellent grease as it does not wash out with water but how often are you washing your gun?

I use terra grease because it is designed for plastic and it has a tiny tip on the tube which makes applications easier

Quack
July 21, 2012, 11:15 AM
Slide Glide

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

plouffedaddy
July 21, 2012, 11:20 AM
I use a small bit of grease on the rails of all my guns. It does seem to help reduce wear markings over CLP/oil alone. Any kind of lithium based grease will work in normal temperature ranges...

beatledog7
July 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
What about wheel bearings?

Inside a wheel bearing are a whole bunch of parts that slide against one another.

ku4hx
July 21, 2012, 12:47 PM
@ kokapelli: Aside from the fact that wheel bearings do have pieces that slide against each other, there is the practical aspect to applications of pretty much anything.

If you can design a wheel bearing to hold oil and not leak out, it would no doubt work pretty well. There are oil filled shaft bearings.

Personally, I want my guns to be as simple as possible and not need anything special or exotic. That's one reason Glocks appeal to me far more than "grease guns" which I also own a number of. For my Glocks, six drops of 3 in 1 oil has served me well since 1991 and my first Glock, a model 20. And that's what Glock recommends ... six drops of oil.

I do use grease though, mainly on the slide of my S&W 1006 my Aluminum framed guns. I still have memories of galling that a little dab of stainless steel specific grease prevents.

kokapelli
July 21, 2012, 02:51 PM
Inside a wheel bearing are a whole bunch of parts that slide against one another.
I think if you close you will find they are actually roller bearings that roll instead of sliding.

9mmepiphany
July 21, 2012, 03:22 PM
The advantage of a good grease over a good oil is that the grease will stay were you put it while an oil will run...especially as temperatures start to rise.

The limited bearing surfaces of many polymer guns reduces the wear on slide and rails...there is just less continuous bearing surface. However, I still like my lube to stay in place during prolonged practice and training classes.

beatledog7
July 21, 2012, 05:25 PM
I think if you close you will find they are actually roller bearings that roll instead of sliding.

Ideally, the bearings roll. But there is no perfect bearing, so some sliding occurs. And, as ku4hx noted, it can be difficult to get a wheel bearing to be leak free. Many large trucks/trailers have bearings with oil, and they typically have sight glasses because--well, they leak.

As far as grease and temperature extremes, oil is also affected, and frankly I don't want to be out shooting in temps that cause my slide/bolt lug grease to either gum up or cook off.

kokapelli
July 21, 2012, 05:40 PM
Ideally, the bearings roll. But there is no perfect bearing, so some sliding occurs. And, as ku4hx noted, it can be difficult to get a wheel bearing to be leak free. Many large trucks/trailers have bearings with oil, and they typically have sight glasses because--well, they leak.

As far as grease and temperature extremes, oil is also affected, and frankly I don't want to be out shooting in temps that cause my slide/bolt lug grease to either gum up or cook off.
Sounds right to me.

Personally I think people make way too much out of lubing guns.
Wear and tear on guns is not even close to what it is in motors and other industrial equipment and I think pretty much any oil will work pretty well.

I used nothing but a good industrial dry lube on my guns for years and never had a problem, but have switched to Gunzilla because it is a terrific cleaner and seems to do a good job of lubing as well.

pat701
July 21, 2012, 09:38 PM
Traditionally, if it slides grease it; if it turns oil it. Some guns are truly grease guns and some just don't need it.

Generally the manufacture's advice is pretty good.
I agrree if it slides grease it if it rolls oil it.

beatledog7
July 21, 2012, 09:41 PM
+1 Gunzilla

Sport45
July 22, 2012, 12:46 AM
My front wheel bearing use grease and the rear wheel bearings are oiled. I guess the auto makers couldn't figure it out either... :)

My range guns run fairly wet with Breakfree LP on the rails. For carry, I still use LP on my revolver and semi internals but the slides get a thin application of grease (or LP, depends on what's on the table when I'm cleaning).

YankeeFlyr
July 22, 2012, 01:57 AM
Kokapelli, in tapered wheel bearings (like on conventionally spindled front wheels) the rollers have to slide as well as turn, as the rollers themselves are not conical, which would be necessary to turn with no sliding action across the conical race faces.

So they get grease.

Sport45
July 22, 2012, 04:54 AM
Somebody needs to take a closer look at their bearings next time they're out for a clean and repack.

tuesday
July 22, 2012, 05:40 AM
Oil flows and grease doesn't (generally).

Guns do not (typically) have an inbuilt mechanism for reflowing displaced lubricant and should therefore be greased.

If you oil a gun, you can expect to have to relube it more frequently as the lubricant is easily displaced. This is not a problem (and may indeed be desireable) in a regularly used range gun but will almost certainly be a problem in a carry gun that sits a long time and is expected to still perform at a moment's notice.

It is frequently inconvenient to grease certain gun parts (hammer pivot, etc.) because they require significant disassembly for access. On these parts it's more convenient to use oil when the gun receives regular light maintenance. This is probably where the idea about greasing sliding parts and lubing rotating parts comes from. The sear gets oiled automagically when the hammer pivot is lubed.

In any case, the last time I checked my gun doesn't have wheels, much less wheel bearings... but wheel bearings are usually greased because it is often unreasonably and unnecessarily costly and complicated to build an oil bath or oil pump into a wheel hub to avoid the utterly absurd maintenance costs that would be associated with oiling parts without such provisions.

777TRUTH
July 22, 2012, 06:29 AM
Originally Posted by ku4hx View Post
Traditionally, if it slides grease it; if it turns oil it.

Same here. I don't go crazy on the grease, a thin layer is all that is needed. Didn't get a gun grease, just a synthetic I picked up at the auto parts store.

hentown
July 22, 2012, 06:57 AM
There's only one place on a Glock where grease might be o.k....where the trigger bar engages the connector; otherwise, you'll find that Mobil 1, or any other good synthetic motor oil doesn't "turn milky." I lube all my firearms with Mobil 1, 15W50. It's particularly good at lubing ARs, as it won't cook off like thinner, firearms "specialty" oils will.

Mainsail
July 22, 2012, 12:27 PM
I had an AMT Longslide Hardballer back in the 80s, notorious for galling in the slide. I was also a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force at the time and always greased the slide rails with some aircraft grease and never had a problem- the rails and slide still looked new even after almost a thousand rounds of 45 ACP.

It sounds like in your question that you're asking about the suitability of grease for polymer framed guns. The gun may have polymer components but in the end it's steel sliding against steel on the inside.

barstoolguru
July 22, 2012, 02:26 PM
My front wheel bearing use grease and the rear wheel bearings are oiled. I guess the auto makers couldn't figure it out either...

Front bearings are packed in grease because oil bath systems are generally higher $ to mfg. and have a bigger hub that looks ugly with rims and hubcaps. These systems are seen on large truck tires that have bud or Daytona rim's the oil bath system is a better system and can go higher mileage with less maintance.
bearing grease has more fiber in it and can stand high temps, lubiplate is white lithium grease is water resistant and won't wash out and can handle higher temps the reg grease but not as high as the bearing grease.
Any oil is fine because you will never get a gun so hot the oil will bake on. Generally you have to get up in the 500 deg point before oil starts to gum up

Sig Bill
July 22, 2012, 02:42 PM
I use high temp lithium grease on the sliding parts and oil on the fulcrum parts.

Bovice
July 22, 2012, 03:03 PM
I cleaned an AR for my dad once that he had lubed with bearing grease. After all that work, I told him no more bearing grease.

Every AR I have run has done it's absolute best with a wet coat of oil. Hoppe's oil in the orange spray can, specifically. Grease makes a downright awful mess in an AR.

Pistols are another story. I use a light, gun specific grease. It's easy to clean off when the time comes. With bearing grease, you have to bring out a heavy duty degreaser.

RinkRat
July 23, 2012, 01:47 AM
I tried it and now I'm starting to use LocTite's C5-A copper-based anti-seize lubricant for my grease applications.

I've found that ... a little dab will do ya

Girodin
July 23, 2012, 12:32 PM
If you oil a gun, you can expect to have to relube it more frequently as the lubricant is easily displaced. This is not a problem (and may indeed be desireable) in a regularly used range gun but will almost certainly be a problem in a carry gun that sits a long time and is expected to still perform at a moment's notice.


In my opinion that argument is much ado about nothing. First, if your carry gun is just sitting that long, your lack of training is more likely to be an issue. Second, it is pretty easy to re-apply lubricant. Third, and the real reason I find the above argument unpersuasive, I wouldn't carry a gun that couldn't fire more rounds than I carry on my person, while being bone dry. See for example:

http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/05/project-c-phase-2-lubricant-free.html

One_Jackal
July 25, 2012, 10:39 PM
Grease works best on the face of a hammer or the head of a firing pin. Things that would sling oil off them in a couple of shots.

steepcliff
July 27, 2012, 06:53 PM
I like grease on the slides and oil on the feeding ramp and barrrel

steepcliff
July 27, 2012, 07:06 PM
The manual stated use cip or saami standard ammo. I did and what a nightmare. I have heard people say, maybe that gun doesn't like that ammo.
After 6hrs. of polishing and 800 rounds, the gun will take any kind of ammo.
ShoulId we be satisfied with that conclusion about, "the gun may not like that ammo". If they would have told you that from the start, would you really want that gun? I have used about hundred dollars worth of different kinds of grease and oil , but first i needed to address the feeding issue.

coolluke01
July 27, 2012, 07:20 PM
Anyone ever use Gun Butter? I've heard good things but never tired it. I just use WWII issue oil on my Glock's and AR.

Girodin
July 27, 2012, 10:48 PM
You can also find countless videos of police shootouts where they empty their G22s, which hold a fair number of rounds, and don't hit squat. I wouldn't use the average cops shooting skills as an argument that 50 rounds a year is adequate. Here is one such example. Cop with gun already out misses his first four shots at a stationary target, who hasn't fired and doesn't return fire, at very shot distance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7AOVqnL9xM

Cops tend to be like other people, the ones that are solid shooters are such because they have put the time and effort into training.

The copy analogy falls apart if you look at it a little harder. Cops may or may not go into more dangerous situations than a particular private citizen. However, they also wear body armor, have radios, can call for backup, and face different types of threats than a private citizen.

frankmako
July 27, 2012, 10:51 PM
i use grease and/or oil on all my guns.

PTMCCAIN
July 28, 2012, 01:51 PM
I use TW25 on all my firearms...works great, stays in place. 'nuff said.

hentown
July 28, 2012, 02:22 PM
Since I use Mobil 1, exclusively, for lubing my firearms, I'm obviously not opposed to using vehicle lubes on my firearms; however, using wheel bearing grease on slide parts of a firearm isn't exactly a stellar idea.

FWIW, modern wheel bear greases don't have fiber in them. Still don't want them around to gum up my firearms. :eek: Fibrous wheel bearing grease was used primarily back in the days of ball bearings.

PabloJ
July 28, 2012, 10:22 PM
I still use 1oz jar of Pro-Gold grease I bought at Gaylons years ago. I have not found anything superior to it yet.

SlamFire1
July 29, 2012, 09:02 AM
Greases are simply oils in a thickner. The oil does the lubrication. Greases stick to a surface better than oils and if you notice are are used in applications that don't use pressure fed lubrication.

Oils and greases will damage plastics but I don't know how long or how much exposure it requires to hurt a polymer pistol. Maybe there are additional coatings on the outside of the plastic to keep oil from touching the plastic.

Just lube it. Grease or oil, just lube it.

EddieNFL
July 29, 2012, 09:18 AM
I believe this guy over any internet hype!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXIsKEHo-4g



My internet expert is better than your's.

kokapelli
July 29, 2012, 09:20 AM
Oils and greases will damage plastics but I don't know how long or how much exposure it requires to hurt a polymer pistol. Maybe there are additional coatings on the outside of the plastic to keep oil from touching the plastic.


If that's the case they better stop packaging it in plastic containers.

ku4hx
July 29, 2012, 09:38 AM
Grease works best on the face of a hammer or the head of a firing pin. Things that would sling oil off them in a couple of shots.
I think it's wise to keep all the various gunks away from the firing pin no matter the gun. Unless specifically directed by the maker. Many a firing pin has been halted because of over zealous greasing and lubrication.

RSVP2RIP
July 29, 2012, 10:56 AM
I used Militec-1 grease on my 1911 rails, barrel lugs and underside of the slide. Tried it on a Dan Wesson Valor an it retarded the slide so much it would FTF from slide stop. I was using an artist brush to put as thin a layer as possible on it. That gun just gets Militec-1 oil sparingly with grease on the slide where it contacts and rides the hammer (forgot what that area is called). The Colts get greased.

Girodin
July 29, 2012, 01:36 PM
Looks like shots 5,6,7,8 put the subject down.

Do you think that was an example of good shooting, heck even competent, shooting?

The only reason he got to #5 was that the gentleman was committing suicide by cop. Had the deceased actually been intending to shoot the cop, then the officer very likely would have been dead, and it would have been a result of missing 4 shots at very close range against a completely static target. Furthermore, like I said earlier, this is one of MANY examples. It just happened to be the first police shooting video I clicked after taking 5 seconds to find one.

The fact is if you are shooting 50 rounds a year you are not going to be a very good shooter. This is particularly true if you are not doing any other kind of training that doesn't involve live fire. If you disagree I'd invite you to go participate in any kind of objectively measured shooting competition where there are folks that shoot regularly. See how your 50 rounds a year guys stack up.

Girodin
July 29, 2012, 11:26 PM
So was that a yes or a no as to whether that was good shooting?

If you really want a great no lawsuit weapon just pick up a can of Raid Wasp and Hornet killer.

This digresses even more, but I promise you could get sued for using Raid as a weapon. I say that as someone who has a legal education.

I'm sure you'll have something else to say and we'll leave it at that since this has drifted far off topic at this point.

svtruth
July 30, 2012, 03:26 PM
The P-51s in WWII (and probably all the other planes) had gun warmers to keep the grease from getting too thick.
BTW, 115fmj, what kind of groups do you get with the Raid?
Also BTW who was the (non Highroad term redacted) who took the cents sign off lap tops?

Body Mass
July 30, 2012, 07:21 PM
I use Lubriplate 105 grease on my slides and Rem Oil on the parts that rotate... This goes for all of my pistols. My 1911 runs best wet and my polys run best on the dry side.

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