DA/SA compact 45 for edc


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Kerbins
July 22, 2012, 10:21 AM
I recently purchased a Glock 19 with the intention of using as my every day carry.

Very sad to say, but I just can't convince myself that I enjoy shooting it. If I don't enjoy it, I won't practice, and then whats the point of having it as a carry.

So, being through my second striker fired pistol I've decided to stick with what I know I like... DA/SA

So my question to you is, what are my options for a hammer fired double action / single action compact (Glock 19 sized) firearm. So far the only two I've had any interest in is the Sig P220 Carry, or the HK45C. I have the full size P220 elite, and very much enjoy shooting that, and also have plenty of spare magazines. Making me lean towards the Sig, but the the collector side of me pushes the H&K.

Chances are I'm just talking/typing my way through a decision, and any input is more than appreciated :)

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19-3Ben
July 22, 2012, 11:47 AM
If I were you, I'd consider a S&W CS45. You'd have to get one used as they are no longer in production. BUT, it's one of the wonderful 3rd gen S&W pistols, it's DA/SA, .45acp, easily concealed, and ought to be very reliable. It might be just a tad smaller than you are thinking of, but is really worthy of consideration.

JTQ
July 22, 2012, 12:28 PM
The Ruger P345 is a little bigger, with a 4.2" barrel. It really is a full size pistol, by today's standards, but it is often referred to as a compact. However, it is smaller than it's predecessor the P90, and other commonly known full size .45ACP pistols such as the Sig P220 and the 1911.

http://www.ruger.com/products/p345/models.html

INMY01TA
July 22, 2012, 12:41 PM
If you have the coin HK45c.

MedWheeler
July 22, 2012, 12:41 PM
Can't go wrong with either of those. If it were me, as much as I like my Bersa Thunder 380, I'd try to look at one in .45. They're available as both "Pro" and "UC-Pro", the latter being the compact one. Both have seven-round magazines. Haven't checked one out yet, but if I saw one in a shop, I'd certainly be curious.

holdencm9
July 22, 2012, 12:49 PM
Well since you mention the "collector side" I don't know if this will apply, but I have heard a lot of people talk about how great the SIG SP2022 is. DA/SA trigger very nice, 15 rounds of 9mm. Maybe a hair larger than the P220 carry, but also a little slimmer according to the website (1.5" for the P220 versus 1.4" for the SP2022) the SP2022 can hold 15 rounds versus 8 of .45, is about the same weight, and of course the SP2022 can be had for $350.

ewlyon
July 22, 2012, 01:17 PM
eaa compact witness

Kerbins
July 22, 2012, 01:27 PM
I had thought of the SP2022. It is on my list. Would probably try to unload the glock before purchasing another 9mm. Where I can somehow justify buying multiple 45s...

Kerbins
July 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
That and can buy twice as much ammo for same price... maybe should be looking more for something along lines of a P229

9mmepiphany
July 22, 2012, 04:04 PM
Between the two .45s, I'd go with the HK45c over the 220 Compact.

If you're not fixated on that caliber, the SIG 2022 is a great value in either 9mm or 357SIG

fastbolt
July 22, 2012, 04:28 PM
When traditional double action (DA/SA) pistols were still not un common in civilian LE work, there were some pretty decent offerings available.

I own an original 4513TSW (cutaway grip and 6-rd magazine) and a CS45 (different 6-rd magazine than the TSW version).
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/4513CS45.jpg

I also carried an issued 4513TSW (standard grip profile and 7-rd magazine) for several years. (Original on top & current model below)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/fastbolt/4513TSWpair.jpg

The older Sig P245 was a nice example of a compact .45 TDA pistol, but the grip profile was a bit chunky (although it helped with felt recoil management). I haven't tried the newer P220 Carry.


As much as I am a long time .45 owner & shooter, I find I carry one of my assorted 9's or .40's more often, nowadays. The slightly smaller grip size & profile of the 9/.40's is a bit more handy for me, all things considered.

Suit yourself, though. Everybody else does. ;)

Kerbins
July 22, 2012, 06:46 PM
So now with sp2022. German or American made.. they're definitely different. Gander had both to peek at.

holdencm9
July 23, 2012, 09:29 AM
So now with sp2022. German or American made.. they're definitely different. Gander had both to peek at.

Kerbins, did you note the differences at the store? I know there is a difference between the older proprietary rail and the newer which is standard picatinny I believe. Aside from that, and maybe a cost difference, I'd be interested to know.

This thread has a bit of info (not much)

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-632270.html

jdmb03
July 23, 2012, 09:37 AM
Smith and Wesson 457

BRE346
July 23, 2012, 09:52 AM
The Taurus pt-145 is very popular, but sorry, it is not hammer-fired.

Kerbins
July 23, 2012, 07:23 PM
The rail and grips were different. Maybe it was just me, but the German made just felt better in hand.

Kerbins
July 24, 2012, 08:51 PM
I need to quit going to the stores to look. HK P30 was tempting me...

HKGuns
July 24, 2012, 08:52 PM
HK45c or HK USPc

needmorecowbell
July 24, 2012, 09:00 PM
I agree with the S&W 3rd gen recommendations. May be my next purchase as I'd like a nice compact 45 for carry.

Walking Dead
July 24, 2012, 09:42 PM
I too vote for the SP2022. If you don't want 9mm get it in .40 or 357 Sig.

holdencm9
July 24, 2012, 10:59 PM
Well the $349 price is sold out for the 9mm:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/handguns/sig-sauer-sp2022-pro-9mm.html

Luckily the .40 S&W hasn't sold out yet

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/handguns/sp2022-sig-pro-40cal.html

Unfortunately I couldn't tell you if they are made in USA or Germany, but a quick phone call to them, they could probably tell you.

Walking Dead
July 24, 2012, 11:14 PM
Well the $349 price is sold out for the 9mm:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/handguns/sig-sauer-sp2022-pro-9mm.html

Luckily the .40 S&W hasn't sold out yet

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/handguns/sp2022-sig-pro-40cal.html

Unfortunately I couldn't tell you if they are made in USA or Germany, but a quick phone call to them, they could probably tell you.
The one in that picture is American made. That being said there is virtually no difference between the two. I have had both taken apart side by side and there are very few differences. The newer American made actually seems a bit more refined.

jcredman
July 25, 2012, 10:41 PM
I have both of the pistols you are looking at, both are excellent choices. I actually used the Sig P220 Carry for my EDC for a while. The main difference in the pistols for me is the grip. The P220 Carry grip feels more like a 1911 and the USPc is a little chunkier. But as I said before both are good choices, and I won't be getting rid of either one any time soon.

777TRUTH
July 27, 2012, 02:34 AM
+1 on the HK45c.

Ash
July 27, 2012, 05:01 PM
"I really don't see what 2 mm in diameter does..."

Surface area, my son, surface area. That mere 2.4mm increase in diameter increases bullet facial by 62%. A 45acp had a facial area of 103 sq. mm whereas the 9mm has 63 sq. mm, that is to say, a 45 has 40 sq. mm greater facial area than a 9mm.

I once owned a 220 and it was a fine pistol, I like it better than the Hk. I also like the Tanfoglio choice, but it will be thicker than the SIG.

Propforce
July 27, 2012, 06:02 PM
Hi fastbolt,

I too have recently acquired a S&W 4513TSW, with no small part due to you & others' experience in this & another forum. Thank you.

Is there a difference in handling between the original no-rail version of 4513 vs. the rail vcersion? Also, have you look into removing the rail? Mine came with a rail which I have no use for and was wondering how difficult it is to remove?

Propforce
July 27, 2012, 06:10 PM
From Ash
"I really don't see what 2 mm in diameter does..."

Frontal cross sectional area, my son, cross sectional area. That mere 2.4mm increase in diameter increases bullet cross section by 62%. A 45acp had a cross sectional area of 103 sq. mm whereas the 9mm has 63 sq. mm, that is to say, a 45 has 40 sq. mm greater cross sectional area than a 9mm.

Fix that for you.

CountryUgly
July 27, 2012, 06:22 PM
Go with what you know. Buy the Sig Carry. It's only your life we are talking about here.

fastbolt
July 27, 2012, 06:39 PM
Hi fastbolt,

I too have recently acquired a S&W 4513TSW, with no small part due to you & others' experience in this & another forum. Thank you.

Is there a difference in handling between the original no-rail version of 4513 vs. the rail vcersion? Also, have you look into removing the rail? Mine came with a rail which I have no use for and was wondering how difficult it is to remove?
Howdy,

Congrats on the TSW.

The only notifiable difference (to me) between handling/shooting my own original 4513TSW (cut-away, shorter grip profile), and my issued current-style 4513TSW, is the ability to get my little finger up onto the lower front part of the grip frame.

As you may have noticed in my earlier image posts, I have magazine with the flat/wide TSW butt plates, as well as the standard curved butt plates. The curved butt plates used on the shorter 6-rd mags don't require the little finger protruding forward, just a bit, compared to the having the same curved butt plate on the longer 7-rd mag. Just depends on your hands and what you like to use.

On the other hand, I replaced the smooth factory grips on my older 4513TSW and modified a set of Hogue grip panels to fit the cut-away frame. I also installed the same rubber grips on my issued 4513TSW. That being the case, they both "feel" the same to me during live-fire (which might not be the case if one had hard/smooth Zytel and the other soft rubber ;) ).

When requested by an occasional customer, the factory has punched out the rivets used to hold the accessory rail onto the newer TSW's, removing the rail and filling the holes with round head rivets. I've not tried punching them out & replacing them myself, as I simply ignore the rail on one of my own newer style TSW's.

The alloy used for the accessory rails isn't exactly as durable as the frame. :rolleyes: I've seen half a dozen instances of broken rails out of several hundred guns in the last several years.

I suppose if I had one break on a personally-owned gun, I'd probably have the company remove the remaining part of the rail and rivets, and plug the holes with the round head rivets.

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