ESEE X, where X < 5


PDA






Nematocyst
July 25, 2012, 08:29 PM
As some of you know, I've got a thread going about the Kabar EsKabar (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=667763). We've been exploring that fine little blade in some detail for a few weeks now. Interesting discussions have ensued. I was fairly sure an EsKabar was my next blade. I'm still pretty sure I'll own one.

But over the last few days - for almost a week, now - I've been running a low-grade fever
accompanied by a bit of ... anxiousness for ... something ... different. :uhoh:

After some research on the Interweb, I've learned that what I have is a jungle-based disease called "ESEE fever".

It was so bad last night that - on the cusp of my birthday, after receiving some unexpectedly generous cash gifts from some friends and colleagues, who knew I was mostly broke (pending the next big 'step up' in my professional life, in the works), and that I prefer cash for gifts rather than ... other stuff (because they know I have a long wish list of tools for the wilds that I want to buy, but that I prefer to acquire them myself) - I bought an ESEE knife online.

Amazingly, the fever abated almost instantly upon receiving email confirmation of the purchase. This morning, my temperature decreased to normal upon receipt of an email saying that my ESEE had shipped via USPS Priority Mail, which means I could have it by week's end.

Which ESEE? I'm not going to tell you yet :neener: other that that the blade is less than 4". I'll post picks when it arrives.

So, why this thread? Because I'm reading that it's impossible to purchase only one ESEE (here is one among several examples of that principle (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=608220&highlight=esee)), and I thought this would be an informative - and fun - way to discuss which other ESEE of that blade length (< 5") I might want to acquire. That includes the Izula (1 and 2), ESEE 3 and 4, and some others. I'll be posting links here to various pages about ESEE blades - sources, reviews, videos, etc.

Back ground: My goal is to meet town and wild EDC blade needs with two ends of the spectrum : ~3" (town and wild) and ~9" (wild). After decades of experience, experiments, trial and error, I think I can do tha. I've got the longer blade chopper covered with my Ontario SP53 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=666488). The new ESEE - and perhaps others - will be my EDC for both town and the wilds.

{PS: I'm likely to be selling some other knives soon, including a 7" Kabar, a SOG Seal Pup Elite, a SOG paratool (which I use extremely rarely), and a Spyderco Manix 2 (though I haven't decided about the latter yet; it could stay in the kit as a back-up short blade; don't know).}

So, what say you?

Nem

If you enjoyed reading about "ESEE X, where X < 5" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ugaarguy
July 25, 2012, 10:36 PM
So, what say you?
I say keep the Spyderco because a high quality, one hand opening, locking folder is essential to any town and wilderness tool kit. Small and light as the EsKabar and Izula I/II are that little 2.85 ounce folder is even smaller and lighter. That size and clip on functionality lends the knife to carry in so many ways and locations.

After that, I think the 4.85" SPE and the 7" Kabar are overlapping in the size category in and of themselves. With an SP53 on the big end and a 2.85"-4.5" ESEE X on the small end I'm not seeing much need of either the SPE or the 7" KaBar now.

Realistically, is there that much that would even require a blade between a roughly 3" fixed blade and the big SP53? Or, wouldn't just keeping the Spyderco TM2 and adding an ESEE 4 or Becker BK15/16/17 or BK2 handle darn near anything you could use a knife a knife for?

Nematocyst
July 25, 2012, 10:44 PM
^ Great start. ;)

Let's keep this going.

Nice to know that - regardless --
you can put on an edge or re-shape blades (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=668582).

Nematocyst
July 25, 2012, 10:59 PM
With an SP53 on the big end and a 2.85"-4.5" ESEE X on the small end,
I'm not seeing much need of either the SPE or the 7" KaBar now.That's what I've come to understand.

John S pointed out recently in one of my other threads
that one can do everything with a 3" and 9".

That's when it really 'clicked' for me.

hso
July 25, 2012, 11:24 PM
You're gonna hate me but...

http://www.blindhorseknives.com/knives4sale.htm

http://www.selfrelianceillustrated.com/

http://www.thepathfinderschoolllc.com/

No one company makes the perfect set of knives so you should see everything that is out there. The design philosophies of each company are different enough that you should pick "one from column A and one from column B and a soup or salad".

BTW, you need a folder for when you don't want to carry a small fixed blade.

Nematocyst
July 25, 2012, 11:53 PM
You're gonna hate me but...

Naw.

At least no more than DA,
because you both keep
making me buy more steel.

:banghead:

BTW, you need a folder for when
you don't want to carry a small fixed blade.
Which is why I'm thinking I'll keep the Manix 2.

{Sound track for this thread (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0oXNNOjIaQ);
good headphones strongly suggested.}

Nematocyst
July 26, 2012, 12:15 AM
But to get back on topic ...

{ ESEE X, X < 5 }

... just look at the non-linear curve
along the top of this knife (http://www.eseeknives.com/izula-II.htm).

hso
July 26, 2012, 09:29 AM
I've handled the ESSEs and they're great knives, but they're not any "better" than the Blind Horse or Beckers or Tops or ...

It really comes down to a matter of taste and how it fits. That's more of an issue with their knives below the ESSE 3 so it is important to handle them and best if you can get with people with a variety at camp to use a little.

Would I carry an ESSE? Without reservation, but I can say the same about a bunch of knives out there.

JimStC
July 26, 2012, 09:34 AM
Blind Horse makes some very nice knives and are reasonably priced for the quality. Thanks for the reference.
Where are they located? Couldn't find that on their web site.

Jim

Nematocyst
July 26, 2012, 12:39 PM
For the record, I'm emphatically and certainly not claiming that ESEE's are "better" than others. That's not the point of this thread.

The point is to provide some info about their sub-five inch blade-lengths,
especially those in that 3" neighborhood, about design, pro's, con's, etc.

I wish I had an opportunity to handle them before buying, but that option
simply doesn't exist for me for a variety of reasons, so discussion will have to suffice.

JShirley
July 26, 2012, 01:02 PM
Nem has a Manix 2, not a TM2.

Both terrific knives, but the standard Manix 2 is heavier. I would NOT sell it.

Hso is on the money. I prefer a big knife that can chop, and a small task knife. There are any number of fine tools for the jobs at hand.

I think my "1 and 1" would be a sturdy 7mm Magnum rifle and a Glock 23. I'd also be perfectly happy with a 1903 Springfield and an STI Trojan .45, but I wouldn't fault anyone who chose a .270 Winchester Model 70 and a .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk.

Same thing with knives...

John

hso
July 26, 2012, 01:08 PM
Then you're going to have to tell us whether you've ordered the Candiru, Izula, Izula II, ESSE 3 or 4 because the neck knives are fundamentally different than the 3 and 4.

The 3 and 4 are pretty much the same knife with different blade lengths. Plenty of reviews on them out there. They'd be fine knives in any trip to forrest or field.

The Izulas are like the EsKaBar as far as handle with there being just a little more on the Izula II. We've discussed the blade shape differences in the Eskabar thread a bit as well as that entire genre of knifes. I've handled to Candiru and all I can say is that it is smaller than the Izula and feels ok. It is for folks that want an even lighter/smaller knife than the Izula and the handle reflects the needs for the smaller knife.

Nematocyst
July 26, 2012, 02:41 PM
Then you're going to have to tell us whether you've ordered the Candiru, Izula, Izula II, ESSE 3 or 4 ...

In good time, compadre; in good time. ;)

... because the neck knives are fundamentally different than the 3 and 4.

The 3 and 4 are pretty much the same knife with different blade lengths. Plenty of reviews on them out there. They'd be fine knives in any trip to forrest or field.

The Izulas are like the EsKaBar as far as handle with there being just a little more on the Izula II. We've discussed the blade shape differences in the Eskabar thread a bit as well as that entire genre of knifes. I've handled to Candiru and all I can say is that it is smaller than the Izula and feels ok. It is for folks that want an even lighter/smaller knife than the Izula and the handle reflects the needs for the smaller knife.

Now, we're getting somewhere. :cool:

mdauben
July 26, 2012, 06:47 PM
So, what say you?

I agree with ugaarguy, keep the Spyderco. For when you don't want to or can't carry a fixed blade, the Manix is a great EDC.

As far as your "fever" I think repeated doses of the cure is the only answer! Personally, I think the sub 5 inch ESEEs (Izula, 3 and 4) are some of the most generally useful outdoors and utility fixed blades around and you can't go wrong with adding any or all of them to your personal "tool kit". ;)

RatDrall
July 27, 2012, 12:00 PM
So, why this thread? Because I'm reading that it's impossible to purchase only one ESEE (here is one among several examples of that principle), and I thought this would be an informative - and fun - way to discuss which other ESEE of that blade length (< 5") I might want to acquire. That includes the Izula (1 and 2), ESEE 3 and 4, and some others. I'll be posting links here to various pages about ESEE blades - sources, reviews, videos, etc.



I've owned an Izula, four ESEE-3's, an ESEE-4, two ESEE-5's, an ESEE-6, two Laserstrikes, and a Junglas.

I currently own three ESEE-3s, an ESEE-5, and a Laserstrike, and I'm very happy with my very useful battery of ESEEs, I have all my bases covered.

The best EDC fixed blade I've ever used is the ESEE-3. When I was in sales, I wore one under my suitcoat and never had an issue. It's flat, light, and just big enough in the handle and blade to be useful for whatever comes along. There's a reason I have three of these, because if I ever lost one I wouldn't know what to do while the replacement was in the mail.

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss323/RatDrall/Martial/RC3GripReverse.jpg

The best ESEE belt knife is the Laserstrike, by far. It has perfect balance, a handle that works in any grip, a design that really allows one to choke up on the blade for fine work, and a leaf shaped blade that couldn't be more useful. It also comes with a sheath that would cost $50+ to have made by a pro. When I'm in the woods, the LS is on my hip.

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss323/RatDrall/012.jpg

I like my ESEE-5 because it is a badass prybar, with a razor sharp edge on it. I would use it if I was running out the door into the unknown, where I may need to break through something, as opposed to cutting it, but also want a fixed blade knife handy.

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss323/RatDrall/007-3.jpg

The '4 I sold and never have I regretted it. It had horrible balance and felt aweful in the hand. The handle is too small for the blade thickness and length, nothing about it made sense. If you want to know what a '4 feels like, imagine an ESEE-3, but thicker and with 1/2" more blade. For an analogy, imagine a fit, healthy woman, about 5'8" tall and 130 lbs. Now take the same girl, only 5'9" tall, and 200 lbs. That is what the ESE-4 is like :barf:

Same with the Izula, I don't miss it a bit. For the same space in my pocket, I can carry a Spyderco Endura with a 4" blade. I cannot see the point of a small fixed blade, except for the Tops IRAQ-JAC, which for some reason I can't put down:

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss323/RatDrall/008.jpg

I loved my '6, it had great balance and was a good knife, but the LS is similar in length and blade thickness, with a more functional handle and a better blade shape for bushcraft or....darker things ;)

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss323/RatDrall/11292011145.jpg

I really liked the idea of the Junglas, but where I live (Northwoods) a knife that long doesn't do much, you need an axe.

Nematocyst
July 27, 2012, 01:08 PM
^ Nominated for most informative post in thread to date.

Very interesting reading. Thanks.
_____

Was expecting my ESEE in the (priority) mail today,
so I sat on the front porch with coffee and laptop until the mail came. :scrutiny:

But the postman didn't stop at my house. :(

I'm holding onto a slim, but unreasonable hope that priority mail
is delivered by a separate courier that will come later today. :D

Nematocyst
July 27, 2012, 01:35 PM
RatDrall, you raised my curiosity about the Laser Strike (http://www.eseeknives.com/laserstrike.htm), so I searched for reviews.

While eating lunch, I read this set of pages about it (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/941039-ESEE-Laser-Strike), including one of your posts.
I'm including it here for any who are interested since
this thread is about X < 5", and the LS fits that criterion.

Interesting knife. Not sure if it appeals to me or not. Maybe eventually.
_____

OK, time to check my mailbox again.

(Yes, I feel like a kid waiting for this knife. :rolleyes: )

Nematocyst
July 28, 2012, 01:55 PM
Checked my tracking information this morning.

July 28, 2012, 7:13 am Out for Delivery


I've been sitting by the front porch with coffee for hours. :scrutiny:

No postman yet; he's usually here well before now. :uhoh:

A FedX truck stopped next door earlier - but mine is coming Priority Mail.

Come on, USPS. Don't make me wait until Monday. :banghead:

conw
July 28, 2012, 03:10 PM
I would offer input but I'm on a different wavelength with my knife purchasing.

I was very excited when my ZDP 189 ladybug arrived the other day. FFG, man is that thing a slicer :). I've got some camo paracord on it and have attached a "covert nose" red Photon brand LED. The red lets me minimize exposure to blue light which is best for my circadian rhythms and lets me also preserve night vision where relevant (whereas, with my Klarus that puts out 470-500 lumens... that is not the case).

Nem how do you sharpen your knives? I ask because all this money could be well spent on the basic Sharpmaker...it's pretty unbelievably efficient and that's multiplied if you have many knives, of course.

Final thought - if you can get in on some "passarounds" over on Bladeforums or Knifeforums, you can scratch some of these itches without forking over the cash. You might even make knife buddies you can temporarily trade off blades with. Lots of people there have the same interests you do, enjoying knives as users and objets d'art at the same time, on an experimental basis.

Heck you could even set up your own passarounds considering the type of collection you are getting, for people who just want to play with and use a knife then let the next guy try it.

Nematocyst
July 28, 2012, 04:04 PM
Conwict, it's great to see you here in this thread. I always value your input. Thanks much.

Yes, excellent ideas and suggestions. I've never heard of a passaround, but love the concept.

RE sharpening, check out a thread on this board that I started last night called Sandpaper Sharp (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=670035).
I hope you'll come by; would enjoy reading your opinions.

My intention is to get something like a Sharpmaker soon -
(it's a cash flow issue, but that's starting to turn around with a better prognosis for fall.)
I've actually got a different favorite ceramic rod set up that I think I'd like more than the Sharpmaker, but I'd love your input.

On the west coast, I have in storage two larger stones, but I never had much luck with them.

For two years, which has involved travels and a lot of moving, so I've had to pare down my tools, I've had only a tiny (3" x 1") backpacking drystone, very, very fine grit. It does a passable job for maintenance, but I need a system with multiple grits - and want a V-stick system (because I'm just not very effective with a horizontal stone; I just can't keep the angle, and don't want to deal with all the clamp on angle brace thingees).

Right now, I'm exploring sandpaper as a cheap alternative until I can get a better set up.
You'll see my drift in that sandpaper thread.
_____

PS: still sitting by the front door while waiting on a postman carrying a package.
Doing pre-late lunch exercises to abate my anxious energy ...
_____

This just in : the postman just pulled up across the street!

<.... drum roll ....>

Nematocyst
July 28, 2012, 04:34 PM
So now, you finally know what I acquired. :)

I've explored it for the last couple of hours or so, handled it, explored the sheath system (I got the deluxe sheath set up with multiple options), set up the sheath for what I think will be my main method of carry, compared it side by side with my EDC of the last 2 years (Manix 2 - and their sizes are very similar) - handled the knife some more, trying all possible grips, choking up on the choil, doing some carving, caressing it, admiring it, taking some pics, etc.

First impression: Very impressed. Love at first handle. Well, nearly so.
Took me a few minutes to adapt to the new feel (after two years of Manix), but soon it felt second nature.

This is probably the best knife I've ever owned.
(Remember: I'm a novice compared to some of you.)
It is already in my top three favorites,
and is destined to become EDC
for at least a while.

Dinner cometh. More later ...
_____

PS: wow, that's weird. The time stamp claims I posted this at 3:34,
but my first post of this post was at 5:27 pm. First time that's ever happened. :confused:

PS 2 : OK, I see what happened. I had posted one with subject line "It's here!" at 3:34, right after the postman left. I think in my state of excitement and hunger (put off eating while I explored the knife), I accidentally opened it, and put this new text in. Oh, well, all is good; at least I've still got all my fingers and my skin is not leaking blood! Now, dinner.

Nematocyst
July 28, 2012, 10:00 PM
The obligatory first photo.

Canvas Micarta is foliage.

More to come.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=168986&stc=1&d=1343523557

22-rimfire
July 28, 2012, 10:36 PM
I have an ESEE 4 and generally feel that I would use the ESEE 3 a lot more. So, you made a good choice. But not in any hurry to buy a 3. The blade that I am trying to get used to is a Dozier K-42 Compact Personal (2.5" blade) in CPM 154. I love this thing. Got it to EDC, but it kind of gets in the way of my cell phone if I carry the phone on my belt as I usually do when I work. So, now I am looking for a leather pocket sheath for it. I think I'll call Bob and see if he has any suggestions or can fix me up.

Nematocyst
July 28, 2012, 11:24 PM
22, I agree about shorter blades. After only a few hours with this ESEE 3, I already love it.

I wore it during a long bike ride with a hike in the middle through my favorite nearby wood with a rocky brook running through. I'm wearing it OWB right side, and can deploy it with lightning speed from there FGEI or RGEI depending on how I grasp the handle.

I found a dead snag and tried some sewing machine stabs RGEI with my 16" stick in my left hand (drawn from my fanny pack) for blocking; like a charm; the snag didn't stand a chance. With my thumb over the (glass breaking) pommel, the grip is solid.

With the sheath OWB on my belt, my fanny pack waist belt sits inside the sheath (from the top). Sitting and pedaling with the knife on is very comfortable. Trying to sit with my longer Seal Pup knife on was problematic: the bottom of the sheath would hit the chair bottom. Not with this shorter blade.

Now that I'm back home and showered, I'm in my sweat pants (what I wear around the house) sans belt, so I'm experimenting with a 5' section of 1" climbing sling to make a baldric sling (top of sling over my left shoulder, sheathed knife hanging inverted on my right side). I've clipped the belt clip (that I've put on the sheath for OWB) to the sling so it hangs inverted. The hook on the bottom of the clip that hooks the lower edge of the belt when worn upright prevents it from falling off the sling even when pulled hard. Perfect for use around the studio during the day, will hang by the bed at night. It pops off the sling and onto the belt in seconds.

Nematocyst
July 29, 2012, 12:25 AM
I have adjusted the sling. The baldric arrangement was not comfortable after an hour, so I've shortened the sling and am just wearing it as a necker now, the whole arrangement just hanging in front like a neck tie. The 1" width of the sling makes it very comfortable around my neck (compared to paracord). I'll play with the length for a few days to find the optimal length, then trim the sling appropriately.

Yes, yes, I know: the 3 isn't designed as a neck knife.

I'll pick up an Izula 2 asap, but for now, this works.

Nematocyst
July 29, 2012, 05:27 PM
Day 2 - the second 24-hour period with the E 3 - has begun.

I've started a new thread here on neck lanyards (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=670256) (rather than taking up space here with it).

I'm not only just as happy with the E3 as I was yesterday, I'm more so. One could say exceptionally pleased.

Or I could just cut to the chase and say,
I totally love this knife! :D

Here's a slightly edited version of what I wrote to someone earlier - a subscriber of this thread - in a PM.
____

I'd been warned in another thread about handle materials (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=669546) that micarta smells like burning electronics. But mine didn't smell too bad to begin. I opened the package outdoors, and stayed outside with it most of yesterday.

By night, I could barely smell it.

Also, I had read that the scales would get darker with use, but I didn't expect so quickly. By day's end yesterday, it had picked up oil from my hands and was spotty. At first I was a little bummed - I liked the light foliage color - but then decided, what the heck, and hit the whole thing evenly with a light coat of mineral oil, then wiped it down well with an absorbent cloth.

I like it a lot. Also improved the feeling. I think it's part of the break in.

Nematocyst
July 30, 2012, 02:08 PM
Well, something very strange occurred last night. :scrutiny:

This morning, when I checked email,
I found a confirmation mail for purchase of an Izula 2.

HOW'D THAT HAPPEN? :confused:
I'm just sure I didn't do it. :uhoh:

Obviously, while I slept, my credit card crawled out of my wallet, booted my laptop and placed the order.

This is both a blessing and a curse. A curse because it's likely to wreck my budget for the month.
Dang, dang, dang. Bad credit card! :mad:

A blessing because ... well, I guess I don't need to explain that one, do I? :rolleyes:

:evil:

mdauben
July 30, 2012, 03:00 PM
Obviously, while I slept, my credit card crawled out of my wallet, booted my laptop and placed the order.
I've had that same problem! Darn sneaky credit cards... :mad:

Nematocyst
July 30, 2012, 09:30 PM
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMKeYdTw3ns) is one of the more interesting video reviews of the Izula 2,
comparing it to the Becker Necker and Kabar TDI.

Not all will agree with the reviewer, but that's OK:
the point is to motivate discussion.

Nematocyst
July 30, 2012, 10:04 PM
Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hgsgye20hk) another review of the Izula 2 by a different reviewer.

Probably the most interesting part of the review is just after 1 minute in when she says,
"[unintelligible]... going to get up closer so you guys can take a closer look."

:what:

OK.

22-rimfire
July 30, 2012, 10:33 PM
Honestly, I went with a Condor blade for a necker since I am not sold on that carry method and for the price, you can't go wrong. Yes, that means you need another necker.

conw
July 31, 2012, 02:53 PM
Does that accept small tek lok? I've got some sitting around. You should give that system a try.

Nematocyst
July 31, 2012, 03:10 PM
I'm pretty sure the sheath on the 3 will take a tek lok. I think I read (or saw a video) about that. I'll double check. I'm not sure about the Izula. I'll check.

I hope so, because I think I'm interested in trying it out.

I've bookmarked (weeks ago) this description of their small, but I can't get a sense of scale from those pics (no enlargement possible). So I can't get a sense of the scale relative to, say, an Izula 2. Is it overkill for an Izula, meaning just ridiculously large for OWB such a small knife?
_____

Added by edit : I did some research during lunch.

ESEE sells a tek lok specifically for the E 3 sheath. Go here (http://www.eseeknives.com/optional.htm), scroll down to the third product.

However, it seems that the standard small tek loks do not fit Izula sheath, ostensibly because the stock screws are not long enough (though one video I watched suggested that the shape was wrong for the sheath). I found this post on Survivalist Boards (http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=124133) claiming that one company (at least) - Rocky National - is now offering the tek loc with longer screws that explicitly fit the Izula sheath. I checked the link on that page : it goes to an active page (http://www.rockynational.com/6285_BT1_Misc_Tek-Lok.html) indicating an in stock product. Kinda pricey ($16), but ...
___

Second edit: The plot thickens. ESEE sells a tek lok (http://www.eseeknives.com/Izula-Sheaths.htm) specifically for the Izula sheath for $12.
It appears there's been some evolution going on, and some web pages haven't caught up.
____

Yet more posts about the small tek lok on Izula.

One (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/630149-The-Mighty-Tek-Lok?p=7782038#post7782038).

Two (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/710361-I-Think-I-Fudged-Up?p=7778981#post7778981).

conw
August 1, 2012, 06:01 AM
It's really the best carry system in my opinion. Well, actually I'm not a big tek-lok fan; I like the Spyderco G-clip even more (sorry, no time to link currently) - it was designed by Mike Sastre I believe, of whom hso has spoken highly.

I would say for me: G-clip > tek-lok > static cord (but I suck at setting these up) > molle > belt clip (hate belt clips).

I want the ability to cant it. I would probably go with a slightly below horizontal cant just because it makes the knife very accessible and handy with less chance of cutting yourself or a nearby object, and it's more sound from an IFWA (in-fight weapon access, a southnarc term) perspective. Particularly carried at 11 o clock for a right-hander.

Anyway, the G-clip may not be suitable for the heavier ESEE 3 but the Izula will certainly be right at home with one; the tek-lok would be suitable for either.

A rough estimate: the tek-lok is probably 1x1.5". So, it's really not overkill. It barely fits on a 1.5" belt though. Depending on how you set it up you will probably find it a much sleeker option than you had imagined OWB could be. Doubly so for the G-clip since it doesn't require a belt, but again, it's not really suitable for more than a 3 oz knife/sheath combo in my opinion.

The large tek-lok is definitely overkill for anyone not rocking a 1.5-2" web belt and doing some serious outdoor activity IMO.

dayhiker
August 1, 2012, 08:52 AM
Tec-locs and kydex are a decent way to carry a fixed, but I prefer leather. This is what I use for my F1.

JRE Industries Cricket

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h340/dayhiker1968/100_1613.jpg

Mine was made for SOB carry, but you can have them made for 11 o'clock carry.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h340/dayhiker1968/100_1680.jpg

It needs a 1.5" belt, and the loops are spaced apart enough to pull the knife tight to the body. No flopping,sagging, and the but or tip doesn't noticibly poke out under a t-shirt.

" they also make them for the ESEE 3 "

Nematocyst
August 1, 2012, 12:52 PM
Thanks for input to Conwict and Dayhiker (nice rig).

More to add later, but for now - confession : I've never learned the "o'clock" orientation for weapons. (Yeah, I know, I'm a slacker; I've looked for explanations or graphics, but never found one.)

What is 12 o'clock, and where is 3? With those, I can figure it out.
_____

Added later: G-Clip (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPGCLIP/Spyderco-G-CLIP-5-Position-Carry-Clip-for-Fixed-Blades). Wow, thanks for pointing that out. Had not heard of it before.

I can't quite see yet how it interacts with belt or fabric. Is it as secure as a tek-lok,
especially when pulling up in a way that would make the clip tend to slip off?

That could be perfect for my Izula 2, given that around the house, I'm not usually wearing a belt - sweat pants, instead, and have been thinking of options for neck carry in another thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=670256). This could be a fine solution. I'll research it more.

Question for Conwict about this:

it's not really suitable for more than a 3 oz knife/sheath combo in my opinion.

The Izula 2 with scales is 3.2 oz. Add another ounce (or less?) for the sheath. Does that rule out the G-Clip in this case?

Magoo
August 1, 2012, 01:18 PM
12=front
3=right hip

Nematocyst
August 1, 2012, 01:29 PM
Thanks, Magoo. Now, I've got it. :)
_____

Found this interesting thread (http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?50840-spyderco-g-clip-molle-lock-or-tek-lok) about G-Clips v Tec Loks, etc, on another channel. Post 6 is by Michael Janich listing pros and cons of the G-clip.

Nematocyst
August 1, 2012, 08:21 PM
My ESEE fever has spiked again.

This time, it's an Izula strain.

My Izzy II is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.

Nematocyst
August 1, 2012, 08:42 PM
I also predict that I'll be replacing my Manix 2 with one of these (http://www.eseeknives.com/izula.htm)
to fill that "extra folder blade in the pack, just in case" option.

That is, if they are actually produced.

Which raises a question I've been meaning to ask here.

What folder has a blade and handle geometry as close to Izula II as possible?
_____

Edit: I may have found an answer to my question : HEST (http://www.bladehq.com/item--ESEE-DPx-HEST-Folder--6996).

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 12:26 AM
My Izzy II is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.
Using the amazing tool called the Internet, and a tracking number,
I just learned that it "departed from" a "processing center" south of Portland
half an hour ago on route here. It's somewhere on I-95 going north.

Projected delivery is still Thursday.

Q: How do you know if you're a blade freak?

A: You track delivery of your next one before bed, then
sit on the front porch the next day with coffee and laptop waiting for it to arrive. :scrutiny:

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 01:50 PM
Seņor Izula arrived about an hour ago.

Quite pleased so far. More after work.

Hand held cell image. I'll do better later.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=169281&stc=1&d=1343926132

DAdams
August 2, 2012, 04:00 PM
Nice knives Nem. I like my new Izulu II. My hands are a medium so it wears me well.
An interesting benefit of using some corrosion inhibitor the knife eases in and out of the sheath much smoother and with less effort.

Tell me what a Tek Loc does. Hopefully it rotates so I can carry canted or horizontal. what is the width limit?

Think I'm going to order the Molle mounts too.

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 04:29 PM
DA, I'm pretty sure the tek loc does rotate to multiple angles, from horizontal to vertical,
but I don't own one yet, so I'll leave that for others to confirm.

I'm leaning pretty strongly right now toward a G-clip; I've got one bookmarked.
But I hope to read a bit more opinion about it v the tec lok.
______

I just spent about 2 hours (when I should have been working :banghead: )
devising a way to carry the Iz 2 OWB vertically at 3 o'clock with paracord.

Searching the web, I found only ways to rig it for horizontal carry (which won't work for me right now - fanny pack waist belt obstruction, and the handle sticks out in front of me in a weird way). The challenge for rigging for vertical carry: that slot on the 'top' (or front) of the sheath, the one that runs parallel to the spine of the blade. One vertical piece of paracord can string between the holes on the 'bottom' (or back) of the sheath, but the vertical slot doesn't allow one to do that easily on the other side.

{I'm still confused about what that slot is for anyway. It's too short to thread my 1.5" belt through, and makes rigging paracord harder (than just having two holes on that side). Anybody know why it's there? What it's used for and how? }

After a lot of putzing, I finally found a way to rig it for vertical carry with two vertical paracord belt loops. I'm fairly happy with it so far, but need to wear it a while to see how it works. If it holds up, I'll post pics. Of course, it requires unbuckling a belt to get it on and off.

But it'll get me by until I have a few extra $ for another system. This knife broke the budget for at least this week. :eek:

But so far, it's worth it.
_____

One thing I'll note right up front that is a potential danger for those of us who own an ESEE 3, or any knife with effectively two choils, one in the handle, one in the blade just fore of the handle. (I guess technically, the rear one is not a 'choil' per se, but a finger hold in the handle, but I don't know its true name.) With the E3, even after only a week's use, I have a tendency to automatically choke up onto the choil in the blade when slicing stuff; allows greater control for fine work.

The one time I tried that with the Izula, I was reminded quickly - and bloodlessly -
that there's no choil in the blade, just a very sharp blade! :eek:

I need to build a solid mental model for the Iz - there is no choil forward of the handle!!!

DAdams
August 2, 2012, 05:58 PM
There is a You Tube with a PC method of belt looping that was clean and slightly aesthetically creative. Another fellow cut up a blackberry swivel holster and mounted it to the sheath. Thinking back on those I like that idea but it would stand off a bit more than I would like. The clicking detent would be a bought right.

Tek-Lok, anyone have experience with them?

Ok I get it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=how+does+a+tek+lok+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 06:10 PM
I saw that vid with a blackberry part. Not for me. (No blackberry, even though they're my fav fruit.) I'd like to see that paracord (not politically correct; made me stop for a second) wrap method if you run into it again.

Tec Lok's look pretty cool. Be sure to note that not all the small ones (mini's) fit the Izula, though there's some confusion still out there about it. Some companies have modified them with longer screws, and ESEE sells one on their Izula accessories page that's bound to fit.

Be sure to check out the G-clips, though. You'll find a discussion and some links just upstream from here.

conw
August 2, 2012, 08:16 PM
Large Tek-Lok might be suitable for something like serious camping or wilderness excursions in the brush/forest for days. The sheath will NOT be coming off and the lg tek lok is not prone to breakage. But it's pretty huge; probably a bit big even for the ESEE 3.

The small tek-lok is decent but a bit touchy to fit to a belt. It's really hard to get it onto some 1.5" belts. It's also kind of fiddly to get closed or open sometimes, and it will eventually break when you are taking it off since there are some parts put under serious stress. This should be noticeable well before it actually happens. Anyway, they're quite uncomfortable and while they work, I'm glad there's an alternative.

My favorite is the G-clip.

Pros: made of kydex rather than molded plastic. No moving parts or excessive tension. Very light. More comfortable. Lots more flexibility (can't really go over a 1.5" belt but it WILL fit any 1.5" belt or smaller. If it fits your belt, it's as secure or more secure than the tek-lok. It sits a BIT closer OWB than the tek-lok but still gives the stand-off necessary for a solid draw - I find it more concealable as a system. It would work much better (i.e. at all!) for IWB although I don't like IWB one bit for fixed blade carry. Can be used on any elastic waistband that's reasonably sturdy. A bit cheaper than tek-lok.

cons: if you mistreat it (pry it off a belt) it's more prone to breakage. Might not be as robust if you literally have frequent, repeated vertical or back-and-forth stress on the knife system (IMO in a fight it's not a problem - I am talking repeatedly abusing it, maybe if you like to run through clusters of South American foliage as a hobby it would be an issue). Has torx screws (neither a positive or negative, unless you have no torx driver).

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 08:28 PM
Great overview, Conwict. Thanks as always.

Based on all I've read, including from you and Michael Janich,
I think I'm going to go with a G-clip to start.

If it doesn't work for me, I can always fall back to tek lok.

... although I don't like IWB one bit for fixed blade carry Dude, that's two of us. I'd never tried it before a few days ago
when I rigged up my E3 with the belt clip in way to try it.

No way, no how, never again. :eek:

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 08:51 PM
OK, here's that paracord (PC) vertical carry arrangement I stumbled on earlier today.

I hope the images come out in order, which should be (left to right thumbnails):

* sheath, no belt, outside (has red numbers on it - key to making it)
* sheath, no belt, inside (belt side)
* sheath, belt, outside
* sheath, belt, inside

Using the image that has the red numbers, 1 - 4:

1 - lower hole
2 - upper hole
3 - upper end of slot ('hole' created by PC)
4 - lower end of slot (as above)

Start by running PC into hole 1 from outside,
then up to hole 2, where it comes out the front,
then across to 'hole 3' (top of slot).

Wrap the outer post of the slot from top (3) to bottom (4)
then loop PC back to the top along the back (creating a belt loop),
where you then loop it through the hole (3) created by the PC, then down to the cord lock.

When you wrap the post, put one more loop of PC around it than you think you need.
Make it tight (by pushing the PC down to force another loop).
Then, go over the cord coming from hole 2.

I left a few inches of PC to loop through the bottom hole on the sheath,
then tied the ends into a simple knot. I clip my necker clip to that loop when not on the belt.

The 2-hole cord lock is used to easily adjust the tension on the belt loops.

I found that this system keeps the sheath tight against my belt (1.5")
even with heavy activity and a large fanny pack belt pulling down on it.

Hope this makes sense. Ask questions if not.

Nem

DAdams
August 2, 2012, 10:19 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=paracord+izula+wrap&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&q=paracord+izula+sheath&oq=paracord+izula+sheath&gs_l=tablet-gws.12..0i8i30.26687.34539.0.36248.14.12.1.0.0.2.1005.4773.0j6j1j1j0j2j1j1.12.0...0.0...1ac.kH5O9uCp2tM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=f36052c937300cec&biw=1024&bih=672

This first one is for a horizontal lash up I see no reason why it wouldn't work vetical.

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 10:27 PM
DA, that link takes me to a google search with a page of pages.

Which one?
_____

Edit: Oops, never mind. I see: the first one (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/707283-IZULA-sheath-and-paracord).

Ok. Here's the problem with that horizontal rig: it's only got one vertical cord.

Two horizontal cords (for horizontal carry), one vertical cord.

For stability, I think you need two verticals.

But I did get the idea of wrapping the slot post from that thread.

DAdams
August 2, 2012, 10:29 PM
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPGCLIP/Spyderco-G-CLIP-5-Position-Carry-Clip-for-Fixed-Blades#description

Is this the G Clip that would work on the Izula sheath?

Nematocyst
August 2, 2012, 10:42 PM
Yup. Almost sure.

We should probably double check
with Conwict before ordering,
to make sure there aren't multiple versions.
(Izula isn't listed in that list on the right side.)

But I think that's it, or darn close.

(Finger on credit card trigger ....)

DAdams
August 3, 2012, 12:03 AM
7.99 for the g.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/spyderco-g-clip-w-screws-for-sheath-gclip.html

RatDrall
August 3, 2012, 09:38 AM
Large Tek-Lok might be suitable for something like serious camping or wilderness excursions in the brush/forest for days. The sheath will NOT be coming off and the lg tek lok is not prone to breakage. But it's pretty huge; probably a bit big even for the ESEE 3.

I'm wearing an ESEE-3, on my 1.75" belt using a large Teklok, under an untucked and form fitting t-shirt in my office as I type this.

It's perfect for the ESEE-3, and results in a bombproof and very stable system.

Nematocyst
August 3, 2012, 11:10 AM
DA, did you click on "check availability"? Here's what I find there: "Estimated to ship within 14-24 days". Backordered?

Rat, do you feel that the small tek lok sold by ESEE (on the page for the 3's sheath and accessories)
would be too small, or other wise less suitable?

(Minor momentary tangent: I finally looked up Drall.
Does your user name relate this these (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Drall_(species))? If so, very cool. :D )

conw
August 3, 2012, 11:19 AM
If the hole configuration fits a tek lok it will also fit a g clip. I will buy them off you guys if they don't fit, since I like to have spares anyway.

You may find it works fine even for the 3. The thing is you want a good belt. The smaller the clip the sturdier the belt has to be.

I would recommend a nylon web belt for carrying the esee3. Again, the izula will do well with a g clip and shorts. You can also put a bit of 3m grip tape inside the g clip for improved hold.

conw
August 3, 2012, 11:35 AM
At 2.8 oz without a sheath this clinch pick is fine on a belt or gym shorts with no belt and just a belly band. Note the tight fit on the web belt ensures stability. Grip tape makes it even sturdier.

http://img.tapatalk.com/46c183ad-e13a-da56.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/46c183ad-e1a0-e438.jpg

Nematocyst
August 3, 2012, 12:01 PM
Conwict, thanks much for posting those images. They're going to be very useful for visualizing the G-clip. Those are the first I've seen of how it actually clips to the fabric.

I'm still a little confused because it looks like your belt is going through two different 'layers' of the system. But now that I look closer, I think the extra belt (sticking out from buckle) is just tucked into a different part of the clip attachment, and that the main part of the clip - that we can see has that little inverted triangle component below the belt - slides down behind the actual supporting part of your belt.

Right? (If that makes any sense at all - :what:
I haven't had coffee yet (next), so not sure if I'm making sense.)
____

ETA: Just tried to order a g'clip online. Failed: no place where they're available accept paypal(*) or online check, which is a problem for me since I just opened a new bank account, don't have my new card number, and have already closed the older account. (Trust me: the latter was a good thing. Never again.)

Darn. Oh, well; new card should be here early next week. Glad I've got a nice PC system to use until then. :)

(*) PS: I called one place to inquire about payment options, and was told they can't use paypal for anything but razors and kitchen knives, because "paypal does not want to be associated with anything tactical".

But I just bought two ESEE's using paypal; so I think the rep is misinformed, or the company I purchased from has found a loophole, because it was my only option for payment at the time.
____

ETA 2 : This just in: the postman brought my new card today. Will order a g'clip a bit later ... :)

conw
August 3, 2012, 07:23 PM
Knifecenter has a free shipping sale all weekend according to an email they just sent me.

Looking closely at the first cell phone photo I shared above, I can see how it's confusing... the belt's simply not totally "snapped into" the lower, outer, curved portion of the g-clip. The belt's thick, sandwiched web material with an inner core, so there is coyote as well as black nylon... the entire sandwich should be in the little U-shaped lower part. However, the g-clip works fine even if it isn't.

These pics show how it goes onto my gym shorts with a belly band. The long flat part is behind the waistband and belly-band.

http://img.tapatalk.com/46c1827b-4f10-47e3.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/46c1827b-4f70-5967.jpg

The attached pic shows the G19 and clinch pick are pretty well concealed even in a t-shirt and gym shorts. The pic shows a good representation of how it actually looks.

Nematocyst
August 3, 2012, 08:21 PM
Yeah, I'm beginning to get it. That helps.

Ordered my G-clip late afternoon.

Missed the free shipping by a day, but that's ok: was only $2+

Nematocyst
August 3, 2012, 11:02 PM
Tonight, while sitting on the north deck watching a moon rise,
I discovered something astounding about myself
that I'd not know in 6 decades.

My left hand is significantly larger than my right.

Now, that shouldn't be a surprise because
my left foot is a 9, my right an 8.5.

But until tonight, I didn't know
that is also true for my hands.

How'd I learn that?
I held the Iz 2 in my left hand.

In my right hand, putting my pinky into that handle hole
while my index fits into the choil is a stretch.

In my left hand,
the fit is perfect.

Yes, perfect.

From that, I learned why the E3
fits my right hand so well.

But that's another story.

DAdams
August 4, 2012, 12:19 AM
I'm in for a G Clip. Ordered one for the I 2.

Nematocyst
August 4, 2012, 12:29 AM
My intuition is telling me this.

For a versatile, plastic OWB attachment for the Iz, G is the way to go.

But I'm still glad I know an alternative with PC.

Still not sure how to attach the E3, or even to what.

But I know this much : I totally LOVE both these blades.

(Written while eating a raspberry Danish for bedtime snack.)

conw
August 4, 2012, 02:49 AM
I'm not convinced the E3 won't work with a G-clip... provided you have the right belt.

Nematocyst
August 5, 2012, 03:50 PM
I couldn't resist posting a pic of what I call my Trio. This is the new blade kit, the three that will accompany me as my primary blades in camp and wilderness. (Only the Izula for EDC everywhere.) My hypothesis - based on decades of experience in camps and trails - is that these three - plus my SAK with some specialty 'blades' - will do everything I need to do.

I'm still not sure if I'll keep my Manix 2, or replace it with a folder (as backup) that has a blade geometry more like the Izula.

I'm in the process of selling my other blades, probably to a friend (Kabar 7", SOG SPE, SOG multi-tool).

And yes, I must buy a better, dedicated dig cam.
This cell just doesn't do them justice.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=169450&stc=1&d=1344192567

ugaarguy
August 6, 2012, 05:01 PM
The baldric arrangement was not comfortable after an hour, so I've shortened the sling and am just wearing it as a necker now ...
Yes, yes, I know: the 3 isn't designed as a neck knife.
A couple days ago I walked into one of the local gun shops and they had an Ontario (not ESEE marked) RAT-3. I couldn't resist and it went home with me. The Ontario model shipped with both the boot clip, and a TekLok. The sheath instructions printed on the business card in the package also advised using a sharp downward pull to release the knife when carried as a neck knife. Knifecenter also still has some of the Ontario RAT knives in stock and the Ontario description states, in part, "The sheath can also be stripped of retention devices and carried as a neck knife." - http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/ONRAT31095GR/Ontario-RAT-3-Utility-Knife-w-35-inch-Plain-Blade-and-OD-Green-Sheath.

All that to say, it looks to me like the RAT-3 was intended to be a belt of neck knife in the early days before the Izula was even thought of.

RatDrall
August 6, 2012, 05:40 PM
Rat, do you feel that the small tek lok sold by ESEE (on the page for the 3's sheath and accessories)
would be too small, or other wise less suitable?

(Minor momentary tangent: I finally looked up Drall.
Does your user name relate this these? If so, very cool. )

I'm hesitant to comment on the ESEE lok, I have no experience with it. This stuff is hard to guess at until you try it, or find someone who has.

And no my name involves no starwars reference.

A couple days ago I walked into one of the local gun shops and they had an Ontario (not ESEE marked) RAT-3. I couldn't resist and it went home with me. The Ontario model shipped with both the boot clip, and a TekLok. The sheath instructions printed on the business card in the package also advised using a sharp downward pull to release the knife when carried as a neck knife. Knifecenter also still has some of the Ontario RAT knives in stock and the Ontario description states, in part, "The sheath can also be stripped of retention devices and carried as a neck knife." - http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/ONR...D-Green-Sheath.

All that to say, it looks to me like the RAT-3 was intended to be a belt o[or] neck knife in the early days before the Izula was even thought of.

It would be a bad idea to carry the RAT3 as a neck knife. It is too much weight to gain momentum when moving, and break loose from the sheath. I wouldn't even do it iwth kydex, especially not with an injection molded plastic sheath.

hso
August 6, 2012, 06:11 PM
Y'know, ESEE has a forum (http://jungletraining.com/forums/forum.php?) and they will take calls at the shop.

Just say'n.

ugaarguy
August 7, 2012, 02:47 AM
It would be a bad idea to carry the RAT3 as a neck knife. It is too much weight to gain momentum when moving, and break loose from the sheath. I wouldn't even do it iwth kydex, especially not with an injection molded plastic sheath.
I don't know how tightly the ESEE sheaths fit, but the Ontario sheaths (at least the one on my example) fit quite tightly. The RAT3 may be a bit big for a neck knife, but it was the smallest RAT / ESEE knife for quite a while. I also seriously doubt that Randall's would include printed instructions implicitly stating that the RAT3 can be carried as a neck knife if the sheath wasn't secure enough to do so.

Nematocyst
August 8, 2012, 11:49 AM
Y'know, ESEE has a forum ...

I've registered there this morning, and just made my first post in a thread about an ESEE trainers (training knives) project (http://jungletraining.com/forums/showthread.php?12521-Esee-Training-Knives). (I also found a thread about mountain bikes in their general; I suspect my second post will be there.)

Speaking of trainers, any one ever see or know of a source of ESEE trainers, or a reasonable facsimile? I'm looking for an Izula 2 and E3.

RatDrall
August 9, 2012, 07:25 AM
Speaking of trainers, any one ever see or know of a source of ESEE trainers, or a reasonable facsimile? I'm looking for an Izula 2 and E3.

There's been people asking for a '3 trainer for a loooong time.

I doubt they'd ever do an Izula trainer, because few carry them for "defensive" use, but the '3 trainer could become reality if enough people ask.

I could use one, to go with the three '3 live blades I have....

Nematocyst
August 9, 2012, 01:19 PM
G-clip arrived ... with no directions. :banghead:

Geez, a simple diagram would have been so easy.

Parts are clip, 4 machine screws (requiring a driver I don't have with me), four 'nuts', and four rubber spacer/washers.

What goes where? The nuts won't fit in the sheath holes or slot, so clearly the screws go there. Yes; I just checked one of Conwict's images above. Screws go on sheath side.

But the washers? And how am I to get these 'nuts' into position inside the "G"? The holes on the clip are different sizes on different plates.

Worse, even when I get one in place, the screws are too short to reach through the sheath and thread into the nut. I see that Conwict is using a kydex sheath with thin material. The stock Izula sheath is 5/16".

Suggestions?

Back to paracord for now. Shouldn't have taken it off so fast.
______

Update.

OK, problem solved.

Part of the problem is that I was trying to mount the G onto the sheath like Conwict has his, with the triangular tongue away from the sheath so that it would fit inside the belt. On searching the net, I find that every other pic (a dozen at least) has the tongue against the sheath like this (http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderco-knives/images/SPGCLIPb.jpg). (Conwict, why is yours mounted differently?)

I also went to the hardware store and picked up a couple of longer (by half) machine screws with Philips heads because I don't have the tool for installing the screws provided. The longer ones seat more deeply into the nuts, also; should make a more secure connection.

So, it's on. I've got it clipped to my gym shorts (because it's hotter than blazes here today). That's a plus.

I was a little disappointed earlier to find that I may need to unbuckle my belt to get it on and off said belt because the clip is pretty tight. I can force it onto my belt, but can't fenagle it off easily. I'm reading on the Spyderco forum that the clips will break if stressed too far.

I'll give it a few days or a week before judging. I may also try so other angles, which is clearly the strong point of the clip.

conw
August 9, 2012, 06:05 PM
G-clip arrived ... with no directions.

Geez, a simple diagram would have been so easy.

Parts are clip, 4 machine screws (requiring a driver I don't have with me), four 'nuts', and four rubber spacer/washers.

What goes where? The nuts won't fit in the sheath holes or slot, so clearly the screws go there. Yes; I just checked one of Conwict's images above. Screws go on sheath side.

But the washers? And how am I to get these 'nuts' into position inside the "G"? The holes on the clip are different sizes on different plates.

Worse, even when I get one in place, the screws are too short to reach through the sheath and thread into the nut. I see that Conwict is using a kydex sheath with thin material. The stock Izula sheath is 5/16".


The rubber washers don't necessarily have to be used; they go between the inside (facing you) side of the sheath, and the outside of the G-clip, over a nut. They provide a BIT of stand-off from the sheath but also a "buffer" against over-tightening so you can get a really snug fit without having to torque against the sheath.

The screw goes through the sheath fully, into the nut poking out from the G-clip. The nut is in the middle of the sheath poking out through the hole on the "short" side. The "long" side is behind your belt or inside your waistband, while the curved/clip part is outside the belt and/or waistband.

If the sheath is 5/16" you are probably best off getting longer screws. Luckily the G-clip allows for fairly big nuts (:evil:) although you may be able to keep the same nuts and get longer Phillips screws in the same thread size.

As for how to set it up, you need to check and double-check which holes line up with the drilled holes on the sheath. Then, the first step is to pry open the g-clip gently just enough to get the nuts inside of it, then let it "close." Once you do that, you position them in the appropriate holes, and one at a time, stabilize them, put the washer on if you will, and then put the sheath over it, and screw it on with a screw from the outside. Yes, it takes 3 hands, or a lot of patience, but I've done it multiple times without any guidance, and I'm sure you can, too. I'll try to post a vid or some good pics momentarily.

As for the Torx driver, I mentioned it in passing previously; sorry about that. Torx is good in that it never strips but the fact you need to shell out an extra $5 is a bit of a pain, I realize. But it's a good thing to have anyway.

Nematocyst
August 9, 2012, 06:25 PM
Thanks for your update, CW. Go back and check my last post as I did substantial edits (additions) while you were posting. I've got another question for you there about why your clip is on 'backwards' relative to others, including the side that the screws go in.

I'm still trying to sort out this paragraph.

The screw goes through the sheath fully, into the nut poking out from the G-clip. The nut is in the middle of the sheath poking out through the hole on the "short" side. The "long" side is behind your belt or inside your waistband, while the curved/clip part is outside the belt and/or waistband.That's not sinking in yet, but it's been a long day, so I'll try again later. Part of the problem for me is that I've followed consensus and put my screws in from the inside, not the outside like yours. I'm curious about your motivation for that approach.

ETA: Oh, wait, I get it now. But I'm still curious about why you're mounting it 'backwards', so to speak.

This is at least an interesting experiment. :)

conw
August 9, 2012, 06:42 PM
The "long" side I was referring to is the "tongue."

The reason mine's mounted backwards is because I never knew it went any other way, but with the type and angle of these sheaths, to me it makes more sense. also, the 'tongue' reduces the movement of the sheath on the belt, at least for me, since it sits snugly against the body. I also find this to be the case with OWB mounting with no belt.

Being able to mount it without taking off the belt is convenient for me. I like that it doesn't easily come off the belt, although I can get it off without having to remove the belt.

Nematocyst
August 9, 2012, 06:50 PM
While you were posting that, I turned mine around so that it's mounted like yours: 1) screws are coming through the sheath slot, and 2) the clip tongue is now 'inside', against me.

I get it. I think this may indeed be better. The first clue was trying to unclip the clip from my gym shorts while it was the 'correct' way. The hook on the short part of the clip (not the tongue) catches the fabric, making removal tedious. With the tongue on the inside, removal is easier. I suspect the same may be true about removing it from a belt without unbuckling, but I'll have to try that later.

The tongue also will probably improve the comfort level, especially with gym shorts or other pants with no belt.

I'll need even longer screws to fit the washers in. I may also need some washers under the screw heads; there's not much plastic on the sheath holding those heads.

The experiment continues ...

conw
August 9, 2012, 09:52 PM
In theory the washers could be put either place (outside or clip-side) and achieve the aim of buffering against excess screw tension although clip-side would work better. And remember, they compress way down if you use them properly. On the other hand they may not be needed at all.

You'll probably want some blue thread locking compound once you get all this figured out, if you decide to stick with the setup. Do you have a photo of it currently?

Nematocyst
August 9, 2012, 11:56 PM
No photo yet. I'll try to post one soon even though my cell does not do closeups well.

I used some 400 grit sand on the clip tonight to take down some sharp and rough edges.

Getting it off the sweat pants (donned after the stinking heat subsided) was tricky,
especially with a splint on my left ring finger.

But overall, the concept is starting to grow on me.

I'll need to try some other positions, and on the E3, just for kicks.
Which one will wind up as EDC and which rides in the pack is still up for grabs.
______

ETA - I just held the clip on the Iz next to the E3 sheath.
There may be only one position that the holes line up.
It may not work well on the 3 stock sheath.
Fortunately, I like the belt clip that came with the 3 OK.

DAdams
August 10, 2012, 12:25 AM
Came home from a recent trip tonight and found a box had arrived...assuming its the Clip.
Reading your trials and tribulations Nem it's late and I am too BD to go through
The futzing tonight. Even yall's descriptions were making my head hurt. ;)
Hopefully you can post some pics. Sounds like a trip to the local hardware store may be in order? Got any specs on those screws?
Sounds like a simple diagram would be in order from the manufacturer but perhaps unfettered creativity is simply in order.

Nematocyst
August 10, 2012, 12:36 AM
Got any specs on those screws?DA, i just carried the one's that came with it to the hardware store,
and said I'd like the same but half again as long with Philips heads.

It's a local store with half a row of machine screws and bolts.

Took them 2 minutes to pull out the right ones. Two cost me $0.75.

At the big box store, I'd have been lucky to find them at all,
and if I did, I'd have had to buy a box of 50 for $9.95.

DAdams
August 10, 2012, 12:46 AM
Is that the size you recommend or should I get those and something additional by an eighth to accommodate the washers.
I have an Ace type place near me they are usually helpful keeping the sorters from mixing product.
The good news, sounds like it will fill the bill for what I'm seeking. The g that is.

Nematocyst
August 10, 2012, 12:14 PM
Sorry for my delay, DA. Just logging on after a long, delicious sleep on a chilly night -
rained off and on all night with occasional really righteous thunder but with no wind. Awesome.

But I digress.

Screw lengths. Yes, definitely get an assortment.
In hind sight, I'd get two (or 4) of each of all lengths
between original and twice as long. That may be only 2.

In my case, since I don't have a torx driver (yet, but need a set; same as the screws for ESEE scales, yes?),
I'd get a set the same as originals with philips to experiment.

PS: I'd also see if they have screws and nuts in black. Screws maybe; I doubt the nuts.

I don't know if I'll have time for photo today - busy day coming - but by tmw latest.

hso
August 10, 2012, 12:47 PM
http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderco-knives/images/SPGCLIPb.jpg

That's the correct mounting method.
As pointed out, the o-rings go between the sheath and the clip so you can get a tight fasten between the two without ripping the material apart. It also helps keep your rivets from getting damaged.

Nem, you're probably running into the "well everyone knows that" expectation problem in some of this and the idea that people will look at the net instead of printing and sending instructions. With small operations this is pretty common.

DAdams
August 10, 2012, 03:22 PM
I ordered the Izula with the "kit" so it came with a plate and metalic clip/loop.
Will accomodate a 1.75 inch belt and flip flops for mounting one side or the the other. This would accomodate many carries, vertical on belt, horizontal on a large belt loop (sloppy) and some backpack strap configurations.

I bought the G Clip in the hopes that it would do the tighten up on narrower belts for crossdraw horizontal carry and up to 3 o'clock strong side (not an ideal position). I have some shoulder mobility issues right now which are dictating this orientation.

I was able to use some of the hardware that came with the "kit" so no trip to the hardware store necessary. I used the screws inserts and washers from the Izula plate kit which worked well and is black (FWIW). The real handy deal is the black inserts that cam with the kit were of a diameter that would fit through the slot, the items that came with the G wouldn't, again making my set-up take about 10 minutes of fiddling to put together.
I need some thinner synthetic washers. Those jumbos are ok, but need to be trimmed, which I may do. Cut them in at least half or more.

I'll get back with a carry report later.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Gear/P1010003-1.jpg
Izula plate and clip from the kit.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Gear/P1010007-3.jpg
How I have it setup for horizontal cross carry. Note the two screws and threaded sleeves.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010013-5.jpg

The G Clip fits like a glove on the Wilderness Instructor Belt. Which was great news.
http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=product&id=2309&parent=142

Nematocyst
August 10, 2012, 03:46 PM
Well, DA, I'm glad one of us is successful. Looks good. Thanks for a nice report with pics. Yours are better than mine would be.

I just spent 2 frustrating hours trying out several mount options for the g-clip on both E3 and Iz. (Frustration from needing three hands but only having 1.5 (splint). :banghead:

Short story: it will not work on my E3 stock sheath at all. Period. I turned it every way but loose. Won't fit. Holes don't line up in any configuration except one on the uneven top part of sheathe that holds blade, so won't tighten down. OK.

I tried three configs on Iz, but back to straight up at 3 o'clock, the way I started but this time with spacers, but had to use longer screws from inside clip, so won't grab the larger holes putting it on 'backwards' (a la Conwict mount), so the tongue is against the sheath a la approved mount.

Verdict: I don't like this mount as much because it doesn't slide on/off sweat pants easily (again, see splint) like the Conwict mount does. I'm sure it'll be fine for belt. Will try later.

Once splint is removed, I'll try some different screws to reverse it. We'll see.

Going to hold judgment until then.

Nematocyst
August 10, 2012, 05:51 PM
On a lark, while on errands, I stopped by the police station today (next door to one errand) with my E3.

A middle-aged officer was walking in.

"Excuse me, sir. Do you have time for a quick question about knives?"

"Sure," he said, smiling.

I explained that I had read state knife laws, and that it appeared that as long as I carry openly, that fixed blades of 'hunting knife' length is legal, even in town out of hunting season. But, I said, I'm not a lawyer and the laws are written funny sometimes.

"Tha't's correct," he said without hesitation. "As long as it's not concealed, but openly visible on your belt or pack, it's totally fine. Technically, if it's in your pack, it's illegal, but no one would give you any trouble about it around here." (He said the latter with a Mainer accent and wink.)

"Do you have it with you?" he asked?

I turned so that he could see it at 3 o'clock, prominently visible but the outline partially obscured - but not at all concealed - by my large fanny pack waist belt riding under the knife handle.

"Oh, sure, no problem at all. Nice knife, too."

I thanked him for his time, and we bid each other a good day with smiles.

I feel more at ease now. I think the E3 may become my EDC locally unless I'm going to a nice restaurant or business meeting; then, maybe the Izula since it's a bit less imposing.

conw
August 10, 2012, 07:06 PM
I would be careful doing things like that. It doesn't pay to get cute in that type of situation based on the fact that some bad things "can" happen (even though they didn't and usually don't). Also, police aren't lawyers, so you may want to feed the same question back to the local DA's office.

hso
August 10, 2012, 08:01 PM
police aren't lawyers, so you may want to feed the same question back to the local DA's office.

I'm sure Nem has read that in one form or the other more than once here.
***
Nem,

What if the nice officer had ended the conversation with, "You have the right..."?

Nematocyst
August 10, 2012, 08:31 PM
Sorry guys. I see no logic in your warnings.

I wasn't being "cute" in the least; neither was he. Courteous and kind? Sure. But no cute.

An officer in this city - where I often see 'hunting knives' carried openly (this is Maine, not Mass) - knows his knife laws as well as the DA.

I'm just not concerned. Do as you wish.

hso
August 10, 2012, 11:10 PM
knows his knife laws as well as the DA.

What do you base that opinion on?
Remember that there are levels of expertise for sound reasons and the officer has a practical, but limited knowledge of the law compared to the attorney who spent a lot more time studying it before spending years interpreting and applying it.

Nematocyst
August 10, 2012, 11:30 PM
What do you base that opinion on?
Dangling preposition, Mr. Hso.

Upon what do I base that opinion?

1) The fact that he was clearly an experienced officer, not a rookie, speaking within earshot and vision of his duty officer - oh, did I leave that part of the story out? sorry, it's this splint.

2) The fact that if he arrests some one for carrying a legal blade in a hunting, trapping, and fishing state, where the law clearly states that such blades are legal to carry openly, then he's gonna get in trouble.

3) The fact - stated earlier - that I often see people here carrying camp, hunting knives bigger than what I carry.

4) The fact that open handgun carry is legal in this state.

There may be other factors, but it's Friday night, and i'm at home enjoying it.

I take full responsibility for my actions. I have been duly forewarned.

Thanks.

Nematocyst
August 11, 2012, 02:10 PM
Revisiting this discussion today to address your other point, Hso.

Remember that there are levels of expertise for sound reasons and the officer has a practical, but limited knowledge of the law compared to the attorney who spent a lot more time studying it before spending years interpreting and applying it.First, I'll say that I respect your and Conwict's knowledge about this and other issues. I generally get good, sound advice from both of you.

When getting advice from people, I always - well, at least since my 30's - listen to it, weigh it, reflect on it, ask for clarifications if needed, then use both logic and intuition to make my decision. (I'm both a student and teacher of critical thinking skills, so I'm pretty good at doing that.)

But I gotta say that in this case, under my circumstances, I'm not buying your argument. In some cases, in different states, for sure, yes. But here, no.

I'm well aware that a DA may well - neigh, undoubtedly does - understand the subtle nuances of a law - knife or other - better than a police officer, even an experienced one. There are potentially little ... loop holes, or bight holes, or knots in the law that a cop may nor understand but that a DA could use to bring charges if s/he wished. Granted.

But even so, even if I'd gotten an opinion from a DA first, I'd still want to get an opinion from the officer on the ground so that I can see - experience - his response, his words, his body language.

If the officer I spoke with yesterday had frowned and said, "Well, that's kind of borderline in terms of length, and some officers may stop you for it", then it'd be different. He didn't. His opinion was instant, unhesitating, and unequivocal. He spoke with authority and confident conviction, again with his duty officer within earshot. (I had been waiting for ten minutes to speak with the duty officer who had been engaged in another conversation, when the other officer walked up.)

And that means a lot in this state, home of Stephen King (I now understand where he gets ideas for some of his characters and story lines after living here for two years). In this city, we have a mix of 'yahoo' meets inner city Boston; it's a volatile mix. The cops here have to be sharp to deal with it. Every one I've spoken to or heard speaking demonstrates good intelligence.

Importantly, given the number of fixed blades that I've seen carried openly in those two years, especially during hunting season, in several communities (including the pit that is the second largest city in ME), the cops have to know the knife laws well. There's just no way around it.

Also, I'm not convinced that a DA would offer a different answer than an officer in response to a person that s/he doesn't know with no lawyer credentials, even if they know of a potential loophole. And since a DA is a lawyer, then they could write a response worded in a way that doesn't cover the loop hole and you're still screwed.

(Q: How do you know when a lawyer is lying? A: He's got his mouth open. Point of story: I don't trust lawyers any more than I trust cops, and in general, less, especially if they are elected or appointed public officials.)

Still, I'll play. I'm going to do a little experiment.

I'll contact the DA, and ask his/her* opinion. (*I have no clue.)

Second, I'm going to pose the question about officer knowledgeability of knife laws to a local police officer that I don't know directly, but know of through a friend who has a similar interest in knives (not on this forum). In fact, I think I may have a link to more officers (including a statie) via friends and acquaintances. I'm curious to know what they say. I'm going to describe my experience and this conversation (sans any reference whatsoever to names; I'm not even going to mention it's happening on an online forum, just a question that came up among friends in casual conversation).

If I'm successful in gathering some data, I'll post it to a new thread for discussion rather than take this one further OT. (Kicking myself for even bringing this up, let alone in this thread.)

Nem

Nematocyst
August 12, 2012, 07:33 PM
So, I've gone back to paracord belt carry on the Iz for now.

I'm not finished with the g-clip - more experimentation to come, including with different screws and a Torx drive, but for now, this splint makes it too hard to try to deal with fitting screws, nuts and washers into tight spaces.

I gotta say though, so far, I almost like the p'cord better. I can cinch it tight against my belt with a cord lock, and it's less obtrusive when I switch to neck carry around the studio. No verdict yet, just prelim report.

Also, I'm having just the beginning of wonder about whether I might eventually trade the Iz 2 for an Iz 1. The 2 works OK, but it occurs to me that with my smaller than average hands, a 1 might fit better. I'd want to try one out first, just to see, and that may be hard here.

We'll see.

At least it's quit raining for a while; thought I was going to have to start an ark. (We're lucky with rain here compared to most of the west.)

conw
August 12, 2012, 10:29 PM
I may have had a large margarita before posting that from my cell phone. It wasn't intended to sound snippy.

However back to that topic, remember, asking police whether they give good advice would not really be a great way to gauge the quality of their advice! My point specifically had to do (as did hso's) with the issue of giving a police officer who was so inclined a reason to arrest you. A possible reason, that is. I just wouldn't ever do this regardless of why you think they wouldn't, if it's avoidable. It is not a philosophical or otherwise arguable issue, just one of risk management. You have very little to gain from being what I termed "cute" (wearing a knife to the police station to ask a question from police who may not have the correct legal answer, then revealing yourself to be in the state of doing something that does not, in your mind or even that of the police, constitute a 100% legally defensible action at that point in time) and a LOT to lose, if the wrong (sociopathic) type of LEO is around.

YMMV, so I wanted to explain where I was coming from. I don't think either of us will learn much from an informal survey of LEOs...

Nematocyst
August 12, 2012, 11:35 PM
CW, thanks for clarifying. But please trust that if I hadn't have been confident of legality already, from reading laws and threads on Maine's laws, I would not have done that.

It's clear that the officer correctly perceived me - a 60+ nicely dressed guy, self-described to him as a field biologist (which I am), and he acknowledged that explicitly - as a citizen asking an honest question, with an intension of doing the right thing.

Had I been in inner city Boston, I'd not have done it.

But as I've said numerous times, this ain't BOS, or NYC, or TN ... it's Maine. Things are different here.

As for an informal survey of LEO's, you might be surprised by whom we're querying. The sample is way more impressive than I originally thought it would be. You may not learn anything from it, but my friend and I will.

Blade First
August 23, 2012, 07:20 PM
"But as I've said numerous times, this ain't BOS, or NYC, or TN ... "

Please, don't do that...only certain sections of our state have the slightest in common with larger metro areas in the Northeast, and they aren't in this end of the state.

Otherwise, this is a nice thread and is quite educational. I appreciate your research.

...the real Mr.O, from East Tenn.

Nematocyst
August 23, 2012, 09:11 PM
Thanks, Blade First. I only added TN for Hso since he lives there. ;)

DAdams
August 24, 2012, 12:14 AM
"Agriculture and Commerce". West TN is bit of a dead zone. Kind of like Detroit but not quite as bad. When **** gets bad, head to middle and east TN. Sanity still resides there.

Nematocyst
August 24, 2012, 12:46 AM
West TN is bit of a dead zone.
Kind of like Detroit but not quite as bad.
Having grown up in Me'om-phis,
I can attest to that.

If I lived there now (not a chance in hell),
I'd want an ESEE 3 and an Izula.

And an E5, also.

conw
August 24, 2012, 01:18 AM
I think a shotgun and a glock and a trauma kit might work better.

hso
August 24, 2012, 07:37 AM
Now, now.

Let's not trash the misplaced urban blight too much or we'll get off track. It ain't as bad as it used to be anyhow, but it still isn't any place I'd want to live either (too flat for one thing;)).

Nematocyst
August 24, 2012, 01:16 PM
... too flat for one thing;)Laughs.

Man, ain't that the truth?

As a kid, I remember seeing my first mountains (Great Smokies) on an extended trip with my folks to (and beyond) dad's home town (near Nashville) and being awed. I was never satisfied with swampy wetlands and cotton fields after that.
____

Back to ESEE. I continue to be so very impressed with my 3 and Iz 2. Since my last real post about them here, I've been spending lots of time on ESEE forums (same user name) and learning a lot about ESEE's.

I've experimented with sheath options for the 3 - I got the full kit with mine, so have explored nylon sheath backing with molle attachment to my Sitka (too tactical looking; overkill); molle clips (didn't work well; need two rows of molle on the Sitka was too much real estate in the wrong place); belt clip (sufficient) and have now dropped back - for now - to simple paracord for belt loops, but it mostly rides in a little tunnel on the outside of the small upper pocket of my Sitka, completely visible (not concealed) but quite secure - held in tight with bungie cord with cord lock - but easy access when I need it.

I intend to get a custom sheath made for it as soon as cash allows. And a set of scale liners from a guy named Flexx (on ESSE forum).

My Iz has moved for now to pocket carry. I'm not giving up on the g'clip, but for now, perhaps until I get a custom sheath for it, pocket carry is working for both trousers and sweat pants around the house.

I've also put lanyards on both and am experimenting with them.

And somehow, I've developed a lust for an ESEE 5 (http://www.eseeknives.com/rc-5.htm) - even though I don't really think I need it (but that never stopped anyone, right? :rolleyes: ). What a beast. :what:

The 5 doesn't actually fit in this discussion since the blade is 5.25", but hey, it's close, and it's not a 6.

DAdams
August 25, 2012, 08:40 AM
Nem where did you post your Sitka review. Being digital camo I put a green Mora into the shoulder strap, or it works on the side and..not too intimidating since its an apple and cheese slicer.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Gear/P4050008.jpg

Speaking of the Smokies I was in Maryville last week and encountered a very attractive, fit woman in a black Jeep Rubicon that was all tricked/rigged out with a variety of Maxpedition gear in desert tan .... nice package.

Nematocyst
September 13, 2012, 11:59 PM
Nem where did you post your Sitka review?

Huh? Somebody say something to me?

Oh, sorry, wasn't paying attention. Been caught up in a professional maelstrom here punctuated by a very complex move (THE most complex I've ever dealt with.)

Ok, so on topic ... kinda. The Sitka thread is here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=667177&highlight=sitka), but I haven't really posted a review yet, just first impressions.
I could do a review in an hour with pics, if it wasn't for that maelstrom that keeps sucking me down.

I've also got MUCH more experience to offer with the 3 and the Iz 2, and will asap, but for now... that maelstrom (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo7s7lyOFC1qed43zo1_500.jpg) :eek:

PS:

Speaking of the Smokies I was in Maryville last week and encountered a very attractive, fit woman in a black Jeep Rubicon that was all tricked/rigged out with a variety of Maxpedition gear in desert tan .... nice package.You need to post that with cell phone images in my Maxped thread.

RatDrall
September 14, 2012, 08:34 AM
I've experimented with sheath options for the 3 - I got the full kit with mine, so have explored nylon sheath backing with molle attachment to my Sitka (too tactical looking; overkill); molle clips (didn't work well; need two rows of molle on the Sitka was too much real estate in the wrong place); belt clip (sufficient) and have now dropped back - for now - to simple paracord for belt loops, but it mostly rides in a little tunnel on the outside of the small upper pocket of my Sitka, completely visible (not concealed) but quite secure - held in tight with bungie cord with cord lock - but easy access when I need it.

I intend to get a custom sheath made for it as soon as cash allows. And a set of scale liners from a guy named Flexx (on ESSE forum).


I couldn't more strongly recommend that you try a $10 Large Teklok for wearing the '3 on your belt using the factory sheath. It makes for a practical, stable, and inexpensive system.

I use them on almost every sheath knife I carry.

Nematocyst
September 14, 2012, 11:31 PM
I'll probably try that, RD.

But you want to know what my current method of carrying my 3 is?

In my pocket. I took off the belt clip and just slide the whole package into my right front pocket. These Carhartts just swallow it comfortably. I can sit, stand, bend, walk ... no problems.

Now, admittedly, this is only at home or in camp; I cannot legally pocket carry the 3 even where I am in a city. Then, it's on my EDC pack in plain site (which is legal).

But my Izula 2 has become my main EDC in the city, on my belt using a simple paracord suspension system that I posted earlier in this thread (3 o'clock, belt high) - less scary to the sheople (even though in the town where I am now, even belt carry of my 3 doesn't raise a single eyebrow at a major chain grocery; blades are so common here). But at home and in camp, I carry both, with the 3 in pocket getting the call every time for cooking and eating duty, where as the Iz is picking up stuff I'd do with a pocket knife.

Each has its use, and I like them both, so I carry both.

Nem

DAdams
September 19, 2012, 11:15 AM
Just returned from 10 days in the Tetons and the ESEE I2 made the trip.
I clipped it on my daypack left shoulder, cross draw, weak hand side. I could access it easily right or left handed and it was positioned well and laid nicely. Had to dissasemble it to get it off, it wasn't going anywhere that pack didn't go.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Gear/IMG_2602-002_zpse375f903.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/IMG_2603-004_zpsfdd47e97.jpg

No skinning, no PD but it did get a 25 mile ride.
Redhead Hybrid Hunt Pack.

hso
September 19, 2012, 11:54 AM
So it just rode on the pack and didn't get used for anything? Not even spreading peanut butter?

DAdams
September 19, 2012, 12:43 PM
Yes, it did an admirable job of slicing cheese, summer sausage and apples.
Initial carving of trees is illegal in the National Park.

I also had a pocket SAK which saw some service.

Nematocyst
September 20, 2012, 12:28 AM
...10 days in the Tetons...
Man, some guys just get all the luck.

So it just rode on the pack and didn't get used for anything?
Not even spreading peanut butter?

I not only spread the PB with mine, both the 3 and Iz 2,
but lick it off the blade when I'm done ...
very, very carefully.

hso
September 20, 2012, 10:49 AM
lick it off the blade when I'm done

That's just silly regardless of how carefully done (thaid th guy whu cut hs tung-g). Learned my lesson the hard way and from then on out just used my fingers.

Nematocyst
September 20, 2012, 01:25 PM
Laughs.

Yeah, it's rare for me, because I've also learned the hard way, and don't recommend anyone try it.

But kind of a zen thing for a biologist who's taught A&P and is interested in how one's tongue can ....

Oh, never mind. I don't have time for that essay right now. Perhaps another time ...

Stainz
September 21, 2012, 09:53 AM
The juxtaposition of a small & large knife for EDC, urban or woods carry, is an ongoing one here. I love folders, but I must admit, a small Wharncliff style fixed blade, a la my Bark River T.U.S.K., a purchase made during my 'bushcraft knife' quest, is a fine choice. It's great to use to carve or open the mail. A bit small for some use, a larger version seemed appropriate. Two years ago Christmas found my wife gifting me an expensive version she had seen me looking over weeks earlier. Actually, I was asking the salesman who would want such a monstrosity - apparently he thought I would - and sold my wife one! Here is a Benchmade 171 BladeSport 'chopper'... and it's little brother, the BRK&T T.U.S.K.:

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_4571.jpg

Yeah, big hunk-o-CPM M4. The grip is recycled rubber horse mat... with a matching odor. It needs a better sheath... I guess a neck sheath is out. Hmmm, the discussion was on ESEE knives...

I guess I am another example, having bought an ESEE-5 years ago - when it was an RC-5 - and came with a neat sheath. I discovered the Becker BK-2 at a great price while I was perusing a site noted for books... then an ESEE-4 and an ant knife - with the Micarta handles (It was the same price as one without the handle on evil-pay!). It's been over a year... I think the spell has been broken.

Here are the RC-5(now ESEE-5) & BK2 - both respendent in their 5" x .25" 1095 steel blades:

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/003.jpg

The BK-2 was $79 locally 'on sale' - and included the Micarta grips - a deal, although I like the better fitting OEM grips a bit better. The Becker splits better - it's slick blade finish offers less drag than the RC-5's powder coat.

Stainz

DAdams
September 22, 2012, 01:29 AM
Stainz, you just flat out have good taste in handguns and knives!

Stainz
September 22, 2012, 07:02 AM
I guess that should be past tense - 'had' good taste - haven't acquired much this year. House repairs have had designs of late on my hobby/mad money. No new knives, guns, ammo, or reloading supplies since - well, it's been a while. Besides, DAdams, you went to the Tetons... I can't remember when I last saw The Smokies! Sigh... been an armchair explorer for too long - we haven't even had my wife's required annual trip to the Redneck Riviera (Gulf Shores, AL) this year - yet. Ah, walking a beach littered with tar balls and jelly fish - watching my SS pocket knives rust - eatting over-priced imported shrimp (80+% of the shrimp sold during their annual 'Shrimp Festival' is imported!) - real fun! The Tetons... wow!

I should quit my wah wah-ing... I have a blessed existence... and have more nice 'stuff'' than a man could possibly use, much less need. Still, the Tetons! My ESEE Ant II still awaits it's first 'real' use.

Stainz

PS The Tetons.... wow!

Nematocyst
September 22, 2012, 11:01 PM
Nice knives, Stainz.

Nice to see the E5 and BK2 side by side;
had no idea they were so similar.
Such an interesting handle on the BK.

And yeah: Tetons = wow.

hso
September 23, 2012, 10:17 AM
The shape of the Grip on the Beckers hasn't changed since the early ones nearly 20 years ago. Ethan took the one of his knives and some modeling material and grabbed the thing to form to his hand. The then smoothed it out and we've been looking at the same grip on just about everything with his name on it since then.

A flat slap is much easier to form and make sheaths for and to carry than a 3-d grip, but Mr. Becker and some others consider a 3-d grip superior for use so they insist on a 3-d grip. It isn't that much more difficult if you're molding the grips, but when you're cutting them out of micarta or other materials it is a lot more work.

Stainz
September 23, 2012, 10:57 AM
Yeah, N., that BK2's included aftermarket Micarta handle 'on sale' at a local sharp thing emporium for $79 won me over. I found the longer screws needed at a local Ace hardware store, put them on, photo-ed the knives - then noticed why the Micarta grip felt 'rough' - it was! A lot of sanding later - the grip was still a bit big for my medium+ hands. I did use it enough to scuff up the blade finish - still sharp - great yard brush clearing knife. I bought #1 son one for last Christmas from the 'book site' - ~$64 shipped. I fondled it enough to determine that the OEM hard plastic-like rubber grips seem more comfortable. I have to get my BK2's box from the attic and swap those grips!

Yep, Becker designed a good package with the BK2.

Stainz

Nematocyst
September 23, 2012, 08:00 PM
Interesting perspective on the 3-D handles, Hso. Had never thought of that.

It's interesting that my ESEE 3 has relatively flat scales, whereas the Iz 2 are more rounded. The latter feel better to me. I added a liners to the 3, which improved grip and feel (even for my small hands), but it's still not as rounded as the Iz (obviously). None of that interferes with my adoration for the 3; I like it more every day, and am using it lots.

The Becker splits better - it's slick blade finish offers less drag than the RC-5's powder coat.
Stainz, I don't know if you've found my thread on my Ontario SP53 - search this forum (just burned out after a long hard weekend, too lazy to link it in here --- eating a burger then going to vege the rest of the night with a movie), but if so, you'll see that I sanded the rough powder coat on it down to smooth after reading a comment about that same thing re powder coats. Did not remove it, just sanded it smooth. Had hoped to test it in camp last week, but professional demands made me postpone that trip til October. (Gonna have to take the winter bag then.)

hso
September 23, 2012, 11:29 PM
People are making aftermarket grips for the ESEEs for folks that want different materials and rounded grips.

Nematocyst
September 26, 2012, 12:00 AM
Hso et al,

Any links to those after-market grips for ESEE's would be great.

Nematocyst
December 23, 2012, 03:13 AM
I've been away from this thread - and even this forum for a while. Months.

Somewhere upstream in this thread, Hso told me that ESEE had a forum.

I went over and checked it out (http://jungletraining.com/forums/forum.php),
and have spent a lot of time there for months.

Like here, there are fine, knowledgeable people.
Like here, one must learn how to sort out those who know
from those who only claim they know.
It's not that hard.

Both forums are 'home' to me
(at least on the innertube).

My Izula 2 is now my edc.
I still own the 3, but it's got mostly kitchen duties.
(That thin blade rocks for slicing, and it's wide enough to butcher.)

My next blade - that I'll order next week - is
a Gransfors Bruks wildlife hatchet.
Yes, I've seen the light.

More to come.

dayhiker
December 23, 2012, 10:27 AM
a Gransfors Bruks wildlife hatchet.

Good choice. That + your Izula+ basic Skills will handle any outdoor task.
A SAK in your pocket doesn't hurt either.:)

Yes, I've seen the light.

Took you long enough :neener:

Kabal
December 23, 2012, 04:14 PM
Great thread on some great knives!

Can anyone confirm if the boot clip for the Esee-3 fits the kydex sheath of the Esee-4?

Nematocyst
December 23, 2012, 08:05 PM
Took you long enough
I have to remind myself often that I'm slow, but not stupid. ;)

Nematocyst
December 23, 2012, 08:13 PM
By the way, my Izula 2 now wears a set of g10 scales from The Knife Connection.

Subtle but significant improvement for me. Color is one - it's got orange in it, which the stock Micarta didn't, so easier to find on the forest floor or in the studio. Going to have an orange taco sheath made for it, too.

But the g10 is also slightly thicker for a better grip, and I suspect more impervious to nasty crap from meats and such.

They took a bit of care with some 600 grit sandpaper to take the edges off, followed by a few coats of mineral oil which improved the color and the feel.

I'm happy with them. Planning now to add a set to my 3, and will purchase a 4 with a set. Planning to get the 4 with blaze orange g10's or tigerstripes.

Stainz
December 24, 2012, 07:51 AM
Nema,

Thanks for the link - interesting site. I spend a lot of time on BushcraftUSA.com these days - they love hatchets there. My only axe is a double sided and several times rehandled Plumb. I still have my Plumb Camp Hatchet, a goodie my Mom got me in the early sixties with Green Stamps! It, my Dad's old KaBar, and my BS knife were my camping buddies. More on your Bruks when you get it, please.

Ordering all of this Christmas stuff off the net for my wife and grandkids was an evil influence - I ordered myself a new knife - a Condor 'Bushlore'. Heck, the leather sheath was worth the $28 shipped price! Decent scandi edge - needs a little help to shave armhairs reliably, however. A user out of the box, a little TLC should make it look/function a bit better. My wife wrapped it and put it under the tree.

I also got a new Mel Pardue custom made Tanto folding knife - Damascus blade & bolster and mammoth ivory scales - from Mel, himself, in trade for a LN Kimber benchrest .22. Unreal knife... I am certainly 'not worthy' of such a fine knife. If I am afraid to damage my ESEE-4, what chance does a $1k+ knife have to see use? Nice fellow, Mel, I enjoyed meeting him and talking with him several times at a local sporting goods store that sells his custom knives. He is a real artisan - and Benchmade's senior knife designer, and he is especially proud of his Griptillian design.

So, Santa doesn't have me an ESEE-3... but I do have a new contender for my 'ultimate bushcraft knife'! So, I can still possibly do some self-inflicted non-paper cut blood letting Christmas AM!

Merry Christmas everyone!

John (aka 'Stainz')

Nematocyst
December 25, 2012, 12:44 AM
Good stuff, Stainz.

Merry Christmas, indeed. ;)

dayhiker
December 26, 2012, 04:40 PM
I spend a lot of time on BushcraftUSA.com these days

Great outdoors site,I am on there too, same user name

Just like here on THR skills are valued far more than the latest gadgets. And none of the "The end of the world stuff". Moderated just like this place too. Good guys.

DAdams
January 2, 2013, 12:07 AM
Ordering I ordered myself a new knife - a Condor 'Bushlore'. Heck, the leather sheath was worth the $28 shipped price! Decent scandi edge - needs a little help to shave armhairs reliably, however. A user out of the box, a little TLC should make it look/function a bit better. My wife wrapped it and put it under the tree.

I just encountered the Condor and it seemed like a decent value?
Where did you find it for $28 shipped?

Happy New Year.
DA

Nematocyst
January 2, 2013, 02:44 AM
Somebody said, "bush knife"?

Here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=692658) are some new (for me) options.

Stainz
January 2, 2013, 09:07 AM
I got my Condor Bushlores from an AMAZing place ON the internet. The last one was $28.35 - it's $28.53 today. Over $25, you can opt for free 'Super Saver Shipping', or try their free 'Prime' membership for 30 days - just recall that means 30 days, not 31, as I found out (No matter, I got my money's worth!).Here is a poor picture:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/019_zpse7ca86ff-1_zps3ac09052.jpg

Both my Mora HighQ Robust and Companion MG fit in the Bushlore's sheath as if it was made to fit it. The Bushlore will fit the Robust's plastic sheath but not the plastic sheath of the Companion. Both Moras, after some use, are still sharper than either Bushlore - and that includes the one I sharpened on my Sharpmaker - which does cut well. It just speaks to the Mora's razor edges as delivered (Not 'out of the box' - my Moras have thus far come alone, ie, not packaged - from several vendors. The Condors came with an edge sleeve and in a plastic bag with a desicant pack and included a Condor catalog - in a heavy box - from El Salvador! Like I said - decent value for the nice sheath alone. The knife is useful out of the box, but can be improved, a la a 'work in process', with just some TLC. Everyone needs a Mora... and a Condor!

Stainz

DAdams
January 2, 2013, 08:26 PM
Thanks Stainz for the review. Glad to hear you like those new Moras as-well.
For the little Bushcrafting I do outside the house the Moras should be more than enough for my world.

How about the Moras, does that River Site have the best prices?

Nematocyst
January 3, 2013, 07:52 PM
Stains, that's a really nice looking knife. Basic, but looks like good design (says the bushknife novice that wants to be an expert when he grows up).

DA, for Moras, I recommend taking a look at Baryonyx Knife Company (http://www.baryonyxknife.com/). Fortytwoblades on that other forum where we also hang out owns it. He's only a few miles from where I live. Stellar service, and I think reasonable prices. It's where I bought both of my Moras (so far). If he's got the model you want, of course. He doesn't carry all of them (who does?), but the ones I'm interested in. Tell him Nem sent you. :)

dayhiker
January 3, 2013, 08:33 PM
He doesn't carry all of them (who does?),


http://www.ragweedforge.com/

I bought a Mora once, don't like them. :eek:

But Ragnar can hook you up.

lg&m
January 3, 2013, 09:12 PM
BK24 in D2 with Osage orange handle.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y_KYV4xq78g/UJnRi2hSctI/AAAAAAAAA0k/jORRi1IqkaE/s720/11-6-12%2520005.JPG

DAdams
June 11, 2014, 09:40 PM
Two years later. Nem if you find another good Forum..don't let me in on it. ; -)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Knives/imagejpg3_zps8900b66a.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/dadams111/media/Knives/imagejpg3_zps8900b66a.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/Knives/image_zps0dbb8f52.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/dadams111/media/Knives/image_zps0dbb8f52.jpg.html)

Stainz
June 12, 2014, 06:56 AM
Nice collection, D.A.! I wonder where the Nem is lurking these days??

Stainz

DAdams
June 12, 2014, 07:57 AM
Hey Stainz, You can find Nem on his Facebook page and the ESEE Forum.
He told me about the ESEE Forum and it's a good bunch with diverse gear interests including knives, some firearms, packs, travel, food, you name it. Reasonable rules. Worth the look, you might like it.

I'm SmokyMountainDA there.

Stainz
June 12, 2014, 12:56 PM
Gee, D.A., you'd think I had forgotten about that forum! I mean, five posts in over three years! I claim a perpetual senior moment is responsible, although my wife claims I am always responsible. I am also always wrong, too.

Stainz

Nematocyst
July 4, 2014, 10:49 PM
Bump.

Got locked out here.
Forgot the p'word.
Couldn't retrieve.

Found it.

One word: Izula.

If you enjoyed reading about "ESEE X, where X < 5" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!