answerguy
January 31, 2003, 07:54 AM
...anytime soon? What would you think it would be like? What might we be asked to compromise on to get it? Would you compromise on anything to get it?
Does anyone forsee a national CCW...
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Viking6
January 31, 2003, 08:08 AM
...anytime soon? No
What would you think it would be like? Can't even imagine! But I would see it as watered down and the worst of the worst CCW.
What might we be asked to compromise on to get it? Our soul.
Would you compromise on anything to get it? Probably, to a point.
I may be wrong, but I don't see the numbers.
What would you think it would be like? Can't even imagine! But I would see it as watered down and the worst of the worst CCW.
What might we be asked to compromise on to get it? Our soul.
Would you compromise on anything to get it? Probably, to a point.
I may be wrong, but I don't see the numbers.
voilsb
January 31, 2003, 08:11 AM
I don't see it as being too likely. I just don't think anybody would be willing to risk bringing it up in congress. also, I agree it would be so watered down and regulated as to be barely better than not having one at all.
hondo68
January 31, 2003, 09:00 AM
As part of the Bill Of Rights (BOR), the first 10 amendments to our Constutition. Smoke em if you got em!
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
M1911
January 31, 2003, 09:27 AM
anytime soonNope, not a chance at all.
Preacherman
January 31, 2003, 09:53 AM
I don't foresee a national CCW system under present circumstances. However, if terrorism becomes more of a daily reality (as in Israel), then the pressure for national CCW would become enormous, and might just produce something realistic. However, I'd hate to have that reason exist in the first place!
4v50 Gary
January 31, 2003, 09:59 AM
If Al Quaeda shoots up a school, shopping mall, movie theatre, yes. Public outcry for self defense will be so strong, that it wouldn't be PC to object to guns or CCW.
Citadel99
January 31, 2003, 10:08 AM
CCW permits is a state issue--not a federal issue. The best case scenario is that all/most states get together and use the same set of standards for issuance of a CCW permit (class, qualification, etc.). This way they would have no qualms in giving reciprocity to the other states.
Will that ever happen? I doubt it.
Mark
Will that ever happen? I doubt it.
Mark
hd1.
January 31, 2003, 10:11 AM
I think the closest thing to a national CCW that we could ever expect to see, would be nation-wide recognition of state issued CCW licenses (much like drivers licenses). Total reciprocity, with each state having their own regulations.
foghornl
January 31, 2003, 11:13 AM
A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Not until the mostly spineless SCOTUS decides the "the people" in the reference above means "the indiviual citizen"
Not until the mostly spineless SCOTUS decides the "the people" in the reference above means "the indiviual citizen"
Bainx
January 31, 2003, 02:29 PM
No don't think so. It would take the beaurocrats at least a decade to decide on the legislation and they would have it so screwed up, you and I would need a lawyer to de-cipher what they passed as the National CCW law.
Just look at "arming the pilots"...Dear God, it has been going of for almost two years now [beaurocrats] and still, no armed pilots.
I will win a bet this May with a close friend from work who truly believed we would have armed pilots "in no time". I told him that he simply did not understand politics.
I will take all bets at any odds you care, that we STILL will not have armed pilots by the end of 2003.
If you want something screwed up, let the Government handle it.
Just look at "arming the pilots"...Dear God, it has been going of for almost two years now [beaurocrats] and still, no armed pilots.
I will win a bet this May with a close friend from work who truly believed we would have armed pilots "in no time". I told him that he simply did not understand politics.
I will take all bets at any odds you care, that we STILL will not have armed pilots by the end of 2003.
If you want something screwed up, let the Government handle it.
Hkmp5sd
January 31, 2003, 02:37 PM
For the last 20 years, several LEO groups have been trying to have legislation approved to allow a LEO carry a firearm while off duty anywhere in the US. In many areas, LEO's have to get a CCW to be able to carry outside their jurisdiction.
If they cannot pass that, there is no chance of getting one to allow any US citizen carry concealed anywhere in the US.
If they cannot pass that, there is no chance of getting one to allow any US citizen carry concealed anywhere in the US.
PATH
January 31, 2003, 02:38 PM
Idaho+Utah not equal to Maryland+New Jersey. No, I don't see it happening.
answerguy
January 31, 2003, 02:39 PM
Just look at "arming the pilots"...Dear God, it has been going of for almost two years now [beaurocrats] and still, no armed pilots.No don't think so. It would take the beaurocrats at least a decade to decide on the legislation and they would have it so screwed up, you and I would need a lawyer to de-cipher what they passed as the National CCW law.
I would have taken a piece of that action following 9/11. It's incredible that the easiest and least expensive solution to hijacking hasn't occured yet.
I would have taken a piece of that action following 9/11. It's incredible that the easiest and least expensive solution to hijacking hasn't occured yet.
Sergeant Bob
January 31, 2003, 02:51 PM
Why would anyone want "national" ccw? Everyone complains they don't want gun registration. Yet they are ready and willing to sign up for gun owner registration ? The 2nd mentions the right to keep and bear arms , not a privilege to be granted by the government.
answerguy
January 31, 2003, 03:20 PM
Why would anyone want "national" ccw? Everyone complains they don't want gun registration. Yet they are ready and willing to sign up for gun owner registration ? The 2nd mentions the right to keep and bear arms , not a privilege to be granted by the government
I certainly agree that a federally maintained list of CCW permit holders would be a tough sell but it could be done at the state level. Not that everyone is enamored with state registration either but it is what we already deal with for our CCW's (your mileage in Vermont may vary).
I certainly agree that a federally maintained list of CCW permit holders would be a tough sell but it could be done at the state level. Not that everyone is enamored with state registration either but it is what we already deal with for our CCW's (your mileage in Vermont may vary).
Blackhawk
January 31, 2003, 03:41 PM
Wouldn't want the feds doing anything except making the states recognize the rights and privileges of citizens of the other states so they'd all have to honor my CHP like they do my driver's license. Until the SCOTUS comes clean on the 2A, that's all I can hope for.
El Tejon
January 31, 2003, 04:37 PM
answer, do you mean a "national license" of some sort or just comity between the states enforced by the federal government via the 14th or the FF&C clause?
answerguy
January 31, 2003, 05:45 PM
answer, do you mean a "national license" of some sort or just comity between the states enforced by the federal government via the 14th or the FF&C clause?
My idea would be for the feds to set up the requirements for a nation-wide CCW but it would be the states who administer it.
My idea would be for the feds to set up the requirements for a nation-wide CCW but it would be the states who administer it.
Drizzt
January 31, 2003, 05:53 PM
If we have nationwide recognition of state's ccw, can I just say I've got a Vermont ccw?
El Tejon
January 31, 2003, 05:54 PM
I would anticipate a BIG political and constitutional problems. Thus, I would not foresee the regulation you put forth to even be considered.
Desertdog
January 31, 2003, 06:07 PM
No way, no how.
Actually, my hope is that Pres. Bush manages to get a few good Supreme Court judges past the Demorats and they validate the 2nd Amendment.
A few good federal judges may help.
Actually, my hope is that Pres. Bush manages to get a few good Supreme Court judges past the Demorats and they validate the 2nd Amendment.
A few good federal judges may help.
USGuns
January 31, 2003, 06:14 PM
4v50 Gary nailed it. When (not if) the next big terrorist attack occurs the chance for a national CCW will be vastly greater. It's just too bad something major is going to have to happen to make it so. :banghead:
Moondancer
January 31, 2003, 06:58 PM
Agree. No national CCW. Just as an example, we don't have a national driver's license (and don't start in on the difference between driving and owning guns... it's just a reference point.)
But having said that, my own gut level feel is that reciprocity of CCWs will become more prevalent than it is now. Perusing www.packing.org would seem to show us that there is a great deal of progress that could be made by pushing states' legislatures on this issue. I think that any efforts spent pushing a national CCW would be better off spent pushing national reciprocity.
(Excuse any fuzzy statements here, I've been at work for 12 1/2 hours and am getting tired! :o )
But having said that, my own gut level feel is that reciprocity of CCWs will become more prevalent than it is now. Perusing www.packing.org would seem to show us that there is a great deal of progress that could be made by pushing states' legislatures on this issue. I think that any efforts spent pushing a national CCW would be better off spent pushing national reciprocity.
(Excuse any fuzzy statements here, I've been at work for 12 1/2 hours and am getting tired! :o )
DeltaElite
January 31, 2003, 10:23 PM
Not in my lifetime.
Wouldn't want the populace to be able to defend themselves now would we. :rolleyes:
Not to open the can of worms, but we can't even get a national carry law for cops and we are supposed to be liked by the govt. :rolleyes:
I sure don't see them giving it to all of us, when they won't give it to their trusted pet dobermans. ;)
Wouldn't want the populace to be able to defend themselves now would we. :rolleyes:
Not to open the can of worms, but we can't even get a national carry law for cops and we are supposed to be liked by the govt. :rolleyes:
I sure don't see them giving it to all of us, when they won't give it to their trusted pet dobermans. ;)
Hypnogator
February 1, 2003, 12:17 AM
We'll never see a National CCW law. Most likely scenario is Fed mandated reciprocity, hopefully with provisions that would keep "special" places (like NYC) from exempting themselves.
A better law would be a Fed requirement for "full faith and credit" to state permits, so that even states without CCW would be forced to recognize permits from states that issue them. (Would apply GREAT pressure on the non-CCW states to pass their own CCW laws, as out-of-state visitors would be authorized to carry weapons, where residents wouldn't.)
The only chance we have for a "National CCW" is if at some time in the future, SCOTUS recognizes the 2nd Amendment as an individual right, and interprets "keep and bear arms" as meaning just what it says, including bearing concealed arms.
Still, keeping my fingers crossed. Would like to visit NYC, Chicago, and Miami some time. And they are all "two magazine" places. :rolleyes:
A better law would be a Fed requirement for "full faith and credit" to state permits, so that even states without CCW would be forced to recognize permits from states that issue them. (Would apply GREAT pressure on the non-CCW states to pass their own CCW laws, as out-of-state visitors would be authorized to carry weapons, where residents wouldn't.)
The only chance we have for a "National CCW" is if at some time in the future, SCOTUS recognizes the 2nd Amendment as an individual right, and interprets "keep and bear arms" as meaning just what it says, including bearing concealed arms.
Still, keeping my fingers crossed. Would like to visit NYC, Chicago, and Miami some time. And they are all "two magazine" places. :rolleyes:
Hal
February 1, 2003, 04:12 AM
An armed terrorist attack bringing a demand for National CCW?!?!
Puh-leeze, dream on...
That's not how it works.
When armed bad men do evil,,,arms are removed from good men.
Puh-leeze, dream on...
That's not how it works.
When armed bad men do evil,,,arms are removed from good men.
answerguy
February 1, 2003, 08:16 AM
Still, keeping my fingers crossed. Would like to visit NYC, Chicago, and Miami some time.
Miami? You can't CCW in Miami? Is that true?
Miami? You can't CCW in Miami? Is that true?
Bill St. Clair
February 1, 2003, 08:57 AM
As some others have said, we already have national CCW: the Second Amendment. We don't want to allow the feds to turn our right to keep and bear arms into a privilege to carry concealed. That's the trap in all licensing and registration schemes.
All we need to make this stick is citizens with the balls to shoot dead on the spot any cop who attempts to deny any of our unalienable rights.
---
"Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission." -- L. Neil Smith
All we need to make this stick is citizens with the balls to shoot dead on the spot any cop who attempts to deny any of our unalienable rights.
---
"Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission." -- L. Neil Smith
answerguy
February 1, 2003, 09:01 AM
All we need to make this stick is citizens with the balls to shoot dead on the spot any cop who attempts to deny any of our unalienable rights.
And now the lunatic fringe has been heard from. Is anyone going to jump on his band wagon?
And now the lunatic fringe has been heard from. Is anyone going to jump on his band wagon?
hd1.
February 1, 2003, 09:47 AM
{Attorney General Mike Cox has asked me to reply to your correspondence
concerning whether Michigan concealed pistol licensees may carry their
pistols in other states.
As you know, Michigan law recognizes permits issued by other states to
their residents. In an effort to determine which states recognize
Michigan-issued permits, we contacted each of the 49 other states and to
date have heard back from 38 of them. It appears that only four will
require a reciprocity agreement with the State of Michigan. We are in
the process of entering into those agreements. We will be posting the
results of our survey on the Attorney General website at:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/ This information should be available by
mid-February of 2003. Please refer to that website for the list of states that recognize Michigan-issued permits.
Thank you for your correspondence and for your interest in this subject.
Diane VanderMoere
Department of Attorney General}
concerning whether Michigan concealed pistol licensees may carry their
pistols in other states.
As you know, Michigan law recognizes permits issued by other states to
their residents. In an effort to determine which states recognize
Michigan-issued permits, we contacted each of the 49 other states and to
date have heard back from 38 of them. It appears that only four will
require a reciprocity agreement with the State of Michigan. We are in
the process of entering into those agreements. We will be posting the
results of our survey on the Attorney General website at:
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/ This information should be available by
mid-February of 2003. Please refer to that website for the list of states that recognize Michigan-issued permits.
Thank you for your correspondence and for your interest in this subject.
Diane VanderMoere
Department of Attorney General}
PDshooter
February 2, 2003, 01:10 AM
You mean that S&W640 I carry from time to time:uhoh: all over this country, is illegal:o to do!
JPM70535
February 2, 2003, 05:21 AM
If a National CCW were proposed, and if the Bush administration pushed for it, with the Attorney General we have, and with both bodies of Congress being controlled by the Republicans,I would say it is possible but not probable. The hue and cry from the Left would be ear shattering.
The best hope for national CCW would be mutual reciprosity between the states, and although I believe more states will join those who already do, there is absolutely no way IMO that places like the PRNY, PRNJ, PRK, PRDC, ( and I know I'm leaving out some others) will ever cooperate.
Although I fail to see the validity of CCWs as the 2nd amendment seems crystal clear on my RKBA, Until that right is confirmed by SCOTUS, the only thing to do is work with what is available ane keep up the pressure on elected officials at all levels.
I personally try to limit my travels to those states where my CCP is accepted and avoid like the plague those places where it is not.
GOD MADE MAN, SAM COLT MADE THEM ALL EQUAL!!!
The best hope for national CCW would be mutual reciprosity between the states, and although I believe more states will join those who already do, there is absolutely no way IMO that places like the PRNY, PRNJ, PRK, PRDC, ( and I know I'm leaving out some others) will ever cooperate.
Although I fail to see the validity of CCWs as the 2nd amendment seems crystal clear on my RKBA, Until that right is confirmed by SCOTUS, the only thing to do is work with what is available ane keep up the pressure on elected officials at all levels.
I personally try to limit my travels to those states where my CCP is accepted and avoid like the plague those places where it is not.
GOD MADE MAN, SAM COLT MADE THEM ALL EQUAL!!!
Waitone
February 2, 2003, 09:39 AM
Ain't gonna happen.
I wouldn't want it if was possible.
Whatever the federales giveth, the federales can taketh away. I'd just as soon have them leave it to the states to sort through the issues.
That said there are a lot of issues that have to be coordinated with or without reciprocity.
I live in a state that has reciprocity with no other state. Border states have 3 different standards for sale transportation some of which are mutually contradictory.
As much of a pain in the rear the laws are, I'd rather not see the federales big foot the issue.
I wouldn't want it if was possible.
Whatever the federales giveth, the federales can taketh away. I'd just as soon have them leave it to the states to sort through the issues.
That said there are a lot of issues that have to be coordinated with or without reciprocity.
I live in a state that has reciprocity with no other state. Border states have 3 different standards for sale transportation some of which are mutually contradictory.
As much of a pain in the rear the laws are, I'd rather not see the federales big foot the issue.
PDshooter
February 2, 2003, 10:46 AM
WaitOne is 1000% right!
What the Feds giveth they can taketh!
I'll trust State Goverment over Fed,Goverment anyday of the week!
CK out FLA. CCW it's good in 20 states now.You don't have to be a FLA resident to get one..:)
Mine in the mail!!:) and I'm from PRI
What the Feds giveth they can taketh!
I'll trust State Goverment over Fed,Goverment anyday of the week!
CK out FLA. CCW it's good in 20 states now.You don't have to be a FLA resident to get one..:)
Mine in the mail!!:) and I'm from PRI
44Brent
February 2, 2003, 11:14 AM
I am planning to initiate a lawsuit against Illinois based on the Full Faith & Credit clause of the Constitution. Will provide more information with a link to my web site later.
Strings
February 2, 2003, 09:56 PM
... there was talk on TFL twords the end about a bill in Congress to cover CCW under the FF&C clause. The gist being that, if you could legally carry in your home state (permits or lived in Vermont), then you could legally carry anywhere according to normal limitations (such as "victim disarmament zones" like schools)...
Were something like this passed, I think someone in Vermont would make a killing on setting up some form of forwarding system for "out of state residence"... :evil:
Were something like this passed, I think someone in Vermont would make a killing on setting up some form of forwarding system for "out of state residence"... :evil:
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