Florida residents


PDA






AUadvisor
February 24, 2004, 12:48 AM
Today I got a job offer from a reputable investments company(which is related to the bucs) in Tampa Fl. Any thoughts on the area? I've got my concealed permint in alabama, but have no firearms related training, which I've heard is required in FL. How hard is it to get a permit in flordia?

If you enjoyed reading about "Florida residents" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
JimJD
February 24, 2004, 01:31 AM
I moved down here from NYC about six months ago.
Two totally different worlds when it comes to firearm ownership.
It's pretty easy to get a CCW if so desired.
Here's a good site for some info on the subject:
Packing.org (http://www.packing.org/)

Hope that helps.

Aikibiker
February 24, 2004, 03:47 AM
The training is really easy. NRA basic pistol qualifies as do discharge papers from the military. Also every gunshow in Florida offers a CCW class for about $35 give or take $5 depending on the area. Depending where you live in Alabama it should be relatively simple hop across the state line to take the class some weekend.

Also Florida has CCW reciprocity with Alabama so you should be able to carry on your AL permit while you are scouting things out.

JimJD,

I have heard that from folks from NY before. One of my friends from high school told me the story of how his dad went to the police station when they first moved down here to "register" his guns. The cops laughed and said: "We don't have that down here. Have a nice day." The entire northeast is a different world.

JPM70535
February 24, 2004, 05:38 AM
Florida is one of the most gun friendly states around. CCW is guaranteed to just about anyone not a convicted felon or a mental defective. Requirements as far as training go are minimal and Florida has reciprosity with 24 other states giving residents a large part of the country in which to exercise RKBA.

No gun regristration as in PRK, PRNJ etc, and even without CCW, carry in Autos is permitted provided gun is more than 2 steps removed from access by drivers or passengers. AFAIK,there is no requirement to advise LEOs that you are carrying during a contact.

Tampa is a thriving metropolis complete with all the benefits and Liabilities that go along with same. You will be glad to have CCW if you move there.

Diggler
February 24, 2004, 06:20 AM
You might want to check, but I believe a hunter's safety course certificate meets the requirement for the firearms training.

ceetee
February 24, 2004, 08:25 AM
AFAIK, a hunter's safety course does not count. Nor does a NRA course, or any other course for that matter. The only course that will count is the Fla concealed weapons course, taught by a registered instructor, and signed off on properly.

The course is not about safety, or marksmanship, or anything else. It's just about staying legal, while carrying. Where you can and cannot go armed, that kind of thing.

The courses are usually (as mentioned) in the $35 range, and the permit is $105 mailed off to Tallahassee.

Come on down! Florida needs more right-thinking people to balance things out a bit...

KpEng16
February 24, 2004, 08:29 AM
AU,
I live in Tampa and got my CCW at the local gunshow that comes to the fairground here every couple months. The class is really a no-brainer. You sit in a group of people and hear about the state laws for carrying and take a 15 or 20 question test which is all common sense, then you go to the range and are required to pull the trigger one time from the instructors revolver and hit the target not more than 5 feet in front of you. The whole process takes up the good part of a morning but is trully simple.
-Bill

Dave P
February 24, 2004, 08:31 AM
"The only course that will count is the Fla concealed weapons course, taught by a registered instructor, and signed off on properly."

Beg to differ - I never took that formal course. I showed old certificates from various local training sessions.

Dave

Statutes are here

http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0790/titl0790.htm&StatuteYear=2000&Title=%2D%3E2000%2D%3EChapter%20790

Diggler
February 24, 2004, 08:44 AM
I did some searching and a hunter's safety course WILL count if it's approved by the state of FL. NRA training also works.

http://www.polksheriff.org/cust_serv/weapons.html

Packing.org gives you a list of what they will accept as well.

Diggler
February 24, 2004, 08:52 AM
BTW AUadvisor,

When you get this job, do me a favor and see if they need any C#/.NET/Web developers! My in-laws live near Orlando and I've been looking for a job in the Tampa area for a while.

The "local candidates only, please" bias really stinks.

benEzra
February 24, 2004, 09:13 AM
carry in Autos is permitted provided gun is more than 2 steps removed from access by drivers or passengers
Actually, statutes and case law say "securely encased"; the "2-step rule" is just a rule of thumb sometimes used to explain it. Case law explicitly says snapped in a holster under the seat is OK, as is placed in an unlocked glove compartment, IIRC.

Tropical Z
February 24, 2004, 09:37 AM
I cant wait to make it down there!

joab
February 24, 2004, 11:31 AM
Just tool my Fla CCW class last Friday. Sat in a room by myself watched 2 videos, instructor came in explained one of the videos for 5 minutes, paid the man $30, went to the local mall for photo booth pics and finger prints at the police substation in the mall, stopped at the 7-11 on the way home to buy a money order, dropped app in the mailbox on my way inside.

Start to finish 6 hrs and no shots fired .I didn't really need to take the course because I'm a vet and have already taken one course. I just didn't feel totally comfortable with my knowledge level , because in the Army I was a tugboat mech and the other course I took was 2 videos the instructor talking for 5 mins and no shots fired.

I think in Fla if you can prove that you ever handled a gun withoout shooting yourself in the foot you can have a permit

And true there is not now nor has there ever been a 2 step or 3 step rule in Fla. Mine has always been carried unholstered in my glove box or in my softsided briefcase next to me ( zipper partially opened)

Ed N.
February 24, 2004, 12:04 PM
Welcome back to the United States. You'll like it here. Thought I'd mention that the Florida permit is a concealed WEAPONS permit, not just handguns. Switchblade? Fine. Bowie knife? No problem. Sword cane, billy club, kubaton? Your permit's good for it.

Also, while Florida doesn't permit open carry of guns, you CAN openly carry just about anything else that it's legal for you to own. No permit necessary. So feel free to strap on a broadsword and carry a crossbow while you wait for your permit.

Also no Texas-style 30.06 law. Some stores might post a "No Guns" sign (I've never seen one), but it carries about the same legal weight as a "No Food or Drinks" sign. (WARNING - I'm not a lawyer.)

Highland Ranger
February 24, 2004, 01:44 PM
AFAIK, a hunter's safety course does not count. Nor does a NRA course, or any other course for that matter. The only course that will count is the Fla concealed weapons course, taught by a registered instructor, and signed off on properly.

Not true - got my Florida CCW with a 15 year old copy of a NRA basic pistol saftey class certificate.

Certificate, Notarizd Application, Photo and check -> 60 days and you have your permit.

Can be done by mail. Go to packing.org for the link to the state web site where you can download the forms.

No hassle at all.

Henry
February 24, 2004, 04:02 PM
I just received my Florida concealed weapon license. The process took longer than anticipated, because the State rejected my first fingerprint card as illegible. The second one I had taken looked just as bad, so I had a third one done at a different police station. Those went through without a problem. Good things come to those that wait (and don't have a criminal record)!:D

Jake
February 24, 2004, 05:41 PM
I'm pretty sure Florida also takes a DD 214 as proof of training if that is of any use to you.

JPM70535
February 24, 2004, 06:29 PM
Joab

FWIW if you do not have a CCW and place your loaded gun loose in your glove box or in a partly unzippered briefcase, unholstered, and you are stopped for whatever reason, if the LEO finds the gun, your probability of taking a trip to the crossbar motel is a lot better than average. If you have a CCW, the above does not apply.

Hkmp5sd
February 24, 2004, 06:39 PM
your probability of taking a trip to the crossbar motel is a lot better than average.
Put it in a holster or zippered case, stick that inside the glove box, console or under the passenger seat, and you will never have to worry about getting arrested. Completely legal.


BTW, Florida CCW Application - Online Request Form (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/license/forms.html)

Also, State of Florida's CCW Information Website (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html)

joab
February 24, 2004, 08:03 PM
FWIW if you do not have a CCW and place your loaded gun loose in your glove box or in a partly unzippered briefcase, unholstered, and you are stopped for whatever reason, if the LEO finds the gun, your probability of taking a trip to the crossbar motel is a lot better than average. If you have a CCW, the above does not apply.
Taken from Packing.org "Fla gun laws in plain english" because I didn't have time to find the actual statute on lineIt is not necessary to have a license or permit to carry a loaded firearm in a private vehicle, so long as the gun is "securely encased". Florida law defines a weapon as being securely encased if the firearm is in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, in a snapped holster (not worn on your body!), in a zippered gun case or in a box or other container that requires a lid or cover to be lifted or opened in order to gain access to the firearm. These restrictions do not apply to any person who holds a valid Florida Concealed Weapon License. The zipper is not partially open when the officer gets to my door
Put it in a holster or zippered case, stick that inside the glove box, console or under the passenger seat, and you will never have to worry about getting arrested. Completely legal. Also completely useless
I have carried this way for 15 years and have had a couple encounters with Leo and his friends, plus the fact that I used to do some work for 2 county sherriffs and 2 local police chiefs who have informed me that I am legal

Hkmp5sd
February 24, 2004, 08:37 PM
Also completely useless
Actually, not useless. Most LEOs that do traffic stops do not know Florida law regarding carrying a handgun in your conveyance without a CCW, just as many CCW holders don't know the rules covering where they can carry. Most LEOs in Florida however, grew up with the "2-step rule" and consider that to be the act of opening a glovebox/console and unsnapping holster/unzipping case.

Given the ease of getting a CCW, there is no reason to not to have one if you carry a gun in your vehicle. If you choose not to, then carry whatever method you consider will minimize the hassle when stopped.

The applicable Florida law sections are:

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;
"Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

Note the securely encased AND not in the person's manual possession clause. Some interpret this statute to mean the weapon must be out of the person's manual possession for both private and public conveyances. Some consider it to apply only to public conveyances.

The information at packing.org and other similar sites is a good overall description, but never count on it being the actual law. Telling a LEO you read it online, so it must be correct, probably won't keep you out of trouble if you are in violation. Go to the individual state involved and read for yourself.

son of a gun
February 24, 2004, 09:04 PM
AUadvisor
Today I got a job offer from a reputable investments company

Raymond James ?


It's nice down here, but if you watch that TV show called "COPS" 95% of the time it's filmed in Hillsborough county same county Tampa's in.

I'm next door in Clearwater it's not really any safer but I like it "Spring Break" lasts like 2 months instead of one lousy week.:D

ceetee
February 24, 2004, 10:28 PM
Not true - got my Florida CCW with a 15 year old copy of a NRA basic pistol saftey class certificate.


Beg to differ - I never took that formal course. I showed old certificates from various local training sessions.


I did some searching and a hunter's safety course WILL count if it's approved by the state of FL. NRA training also works.



MEA CULPA!!! I stand corrected...

AUadvisor
February 24, 2004, 11:45 PM
Son of a Gun, your correct it's Ramond James. Funny thing you mentioned the cops show, my sister lives in clearwater, got in a wreck a few months ago across the bay in tampa and she recognized the responding cop from the show.

joab
February 25, 2004, 02:16 PM
Hkmp5sd
I say completely useless in regards to a gun in a zippered pouch under the passenger seat.
As far as what most cops believe, that's not my problem. The law is the law and I have a copy in my possesion. I just did not have time to scan and post to photobucket, and Packing.org pretty much quotes the definition of securly encased verbatim.
Note the securely encased AND not in the person's manual possession clause. Some interpret this statute to mean the weapon must be out of the person's manual possession for both private and public conveyances. Some consider it to apply only to public conveyances. I t should be obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills that there are 2 seperate requirements one for private and one for public conveyance but it is a moot point because the gun is not in my manuel possesion anyway, nearby but not in mymanuel possesion.
Given the ease of getting a CCW, there is no reason to not to have one if you carry a gun in your vehicle. If you choose not to, then carry whatever method you consider will minimize the hassle when stopped.
There are many valid reasons for a person not to have a permit. To some people the $117 fee is more than they can afford, have you checked the average wage in Fla lately, Some distrust the gov't and don't want to be on their list, some do not believe the state has a right to charge an inflated fee in order to recognize their rights, Are they gonna start issueing $50 permits that allow you to read Playboy next, or in the case of the original poster the permit has not arrived yet, or someone from DC who has not lived here long enough to be a resident and being from a non-issue state cannot count on recipricacy(sp) in the mean time

Hkmp5sd
February 25, 2004, 02:48 PM
I t should be obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills

One would think that applies to the 2nd Amendment too. :) IMO, paying the fee for a CCW or going the extra step to ensure my actions are not interpreted to be illegal, is worth it. I agree completely that it should not be needed. However, getting handcuffed, sitting in jail, potential lawyer fees, etc, while the district attorney sorts out whether or not my handgun was being transported legally is worse. Lots of "innocent" people get arrested.

.45FMJoe
February 25, 2004, 06:20 PM
The NRA course is accepted I think. I took the 2 hour course at the Tampa gun show at the fairgrounds and the certificate said NRA on it.

The area is pretty cool actually. I like it here. Don't patronize Suicide Sports (shooting sports) on Dale Mabry Hwy...bunch of a$$ gremlins. I go across the bridge to Largo and shoot at Knights.

You do not have to inform a cop if you are carrying, but you might want to. When he runs your license it will come back to him that you have a permit. Then he might get a little irked you weren't honest with him. Gun shops? We don't have no steeenkin' gun shops. Seriously, the last "real" gun shop closed. The gun show at teh fairgrounds comes around 4 times a year and I haven't missed a show in like 2 years (I'm only 22 and only been into guns for 2 years). However, Evan at on point firearms is the nicest guy and gives the BEST prices on anything. We just discovered him and are in the process of buying 4 new pistols from him. Myself and 2 friends bought G32's w/ night sights for $505 + tax each and my dad just bought a .40 CZ-Rami for $425 + tax. That's not haggling. His price on the new SiG GSR is $835 SS or Nitron...Evan is a helluva nice guy. I really enjoy browsing and drooling though, so I do that at the gunshows and then call Evan for a real deal. :)

DDGator
February 25, 2004, 09:01 PM
Whew, lots of stuff to comment on...

I live in Clearwater. Cops has never taped in Clearwater. There were some episodes taped in Hillsborough County -- the adjoining county (Tampa). Clearwater is pretty low crime for the most part.

Your CCW class instructor must certify that you have safely discharged a firearm. Anyone who took the course without firing a single round probably got a false certification from the instructor. The group that does the gunshows satisifies the requirement by going to a range and shooting one shot from a revolver. You don't have to hit the target -- you just have to discharge it "safely". Don't point it at anyone and you pass.

I carry in my glove box all the time. I have a CWP, but it shouldn't matter. The statute is very clear and I disagree that most cops don't understand it. They have statute books and can read. In your center console or glove box is fine -- jammed between or under the seat (and not snapped in a holster or zipped in a case) and you will have a problem.

Also -- having a CWP is not necessarily a cure all if you are carrying otherwise illegally in your vehicle. What if you have a passenger in the front without a CWP that could access the weapon? Potential trouble.

Ray Jay is a great company and Florida is a great state.

Hkmp5sd
February 25, 2004, 09:59 PM
(Scratch that. I screwed up.)

joab
February 26, 2004, 04:20 AM
Your CCW class instructor must certify that you have safely discharged a firearm This is what I understood when I originally decided to get the permit ( bribe the state into allowing me to exercise my rights) However I have taken 2 classes about 2 years apart and both were the same, 2 videos a 5 minute lecture and no guns.

I asked another shop that I was considering going to if it mattered what type of gun I brought they said not to bring any I wouldn't need to shoot, I was intrigued so I asked another same answer.same answer

Of all my permitted friends I am the only one that has had this experience but they have had their permits for awhile. Have the rules changed maybe, I can't see the state relaxing it's stndards but then Fla is all about the money.But I can't see this many shops violateing the rules either.

One place was kinda small but the 2 I asked were major gun store and range combo stores in the area. The other shop I took my previous class at does alot of police and security training classes.

Do you have a link to the rules that you decribe. I don't disbelieve you But i woud like to know why I alone have never fired a shot at these classes. Am I ugly, do I smell bad or do I just have the look of a natural born shooter? Inquiring minds want to know.:confused:

joab
February 26, 2004, 04:53 AM
One would think that applies to the 2nd Amendment too
There is room to debate on the term "regulated militia" not even all pro 2A people agree on the exact definition of this. Thats why establishing the intent of the framers is so important.

But this sentance---(A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession) clearly seperates the 2 forms of travel by the word or and by repeating securely encased and expanding on it to include not in manuel possession. There's not even a comma to confuse the issue.
Roughly the equivilant of " all boys wearing jeans line up on the right and all girls wearing dresses line up on the left. Does it mean that girls wearing jeans should go to the right or that boys wearing dresses should go to San Francisco?(I know a long way to go for a punch line, but I'm finally in a good mood) No, it means exactly what it says. A seperate set of instructions for each group.
IMO, paying the fee for a CCW or going the extra step to ensure my actions are not interpreted to be illegal, is worth it.
Some people simply cannot afford it. That was my problem back in '87.
If a cop misinterprets my legal action for illegal actions and feels he needs to arrest or unduly harass me, then he should do what he feels is necessary. I won't complain. I can use the settlement money to go to law school and become one of those pro 2A lawyers I hear about but never seem to see when a clear self defense case goes to court.The area is pretty cool actually. I like it here. Don't patronize Suicide Sports (shooting sports) on Dale Mabry Hwy...bunch of a$$ gremlins. I go across the bridge to Largo and shoot at Knights. I agree there are much better places to go to on Dale Mabry, when you get there you'll see what I mean, if they havn't been closed down there like they have in Seminole County.

DDGator
February 26, 2004, 09:47 AM
Joab,

Here is an excerpt from Florida Statutes 790.06, dealing with concealed weapon permits:


A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and *discharge* the firearm;


I did not include the whole statute -- its all available on line (http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?Mode=ViewStatutes&Submenu=-1).

However, this is consistent with what my instructor told me. He had to observe me "safely handle and discharge" a firearm. The one shot we fired in the course was designed to meet the barest requirements of the statute. If they did not have to do that -- they wouldn't take the time or expense--he was quite clear about that.

Ultimately though, it is probably a problem for your instructor if it ever becomes an issue -- not for you.

joab
February 26, 2004, 08:00 PM
That answers it ,thanks. I would ask a friend of a friend, who rcently started teaching this class, but like you said It's not gonna come back on me, and I don't agree with the whoile licensing thing anyway.

If you enjoyed reading about "Florida residents" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!