.22lr to train new shooters with?


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jason41987
July 30, 2012, 07:07 PM
hey everyone.. i have some friends of mine that are thinking of getting into shooting.. and want me to teach them the fundamentals to determine if its something theyd really like to do, and so they have an idea of what to do when they start shopping for rifles of their own...

so.. im looking for an inexpensive rifle, cheap on ammo, low on recoil to train them with.. and i was thinking .22lr would be best since i can get 500 rounds for $20... and as of yet i dont actually own a .22 for myself

none of the firearms i have now are good to train anyone on as they all kick quite hard and would only discourage people from shooting before they really know how to

so... for the .22lr, what would you suggest this be?... should it be semi automatic, bolt, or lever action, and are there any particular brands or rifles i should consider?... as of right now the only one i can think of is the ruger 10/22

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mac66
July 30, 2012, 07:14 PM
Highly recommend a Ruger 10/22 with good iron sights (Tech Sights) or a scope. Set it up with a GI web sling and take them all to Appleseed to learn to shoot. It is well worth the time and money and is a lot of fun.

If the 10/22 is too expensive look at the Marlin 795 or the Remington 597 in that order.

SlowFuse
July 30, 2012, 08:44 PM
My "go-to" when working with a new shooter is my savage mark II. Its a simple to operate bolt action. You have the ability to hold the magazine in your pocket and single feed it until they/you are comfortable to move up to a 10 round mag. Its also an accurate 22 that can reliably shoot quiet CB loads or a ultra high velocity stinger/yellowjacket variety.

readyeddy
July 30, 2012, 09:25 PM
I would get a 22 bolt action. The problem with semi's is that they often experience reliability problems with certain brands of ammo. Failure to feed or extract are common problems which a bolt gun usually does not suffer. Bolt guns also benefit from better accuracy giving the experienced shooter the most important quality. Finally, the bolt gun will slow down the rate of fire forcing the new shooter to focus on the one shot.

foghornl
July 30, 2012, 09:26 PM
If you are training the absolute greenest of the beginners, yeah a .22LR bolt is an excellent choice.

Next would be something along the line of a Ruger 10-22 or Marlin

TyGuy
July 30, 2012, 09:28 PM
Marlin 795 with Tech Sights. $170-$200 total. I got my Marlin for $100 last year. I've put probably 3,000 rounds through it.

jason41987
July 30, 2012, 09:49 PM
wouldnt the occasional feeding or extracting malfunction be a good thing and part of the learning experience should one occur?... wouldnt want someone to be in the dark if they purchase a rifle of their own and experience such a scenario

SpentCasing
July 30, 2012, 09:49 PM
savage mkii

h0use
July 30, 2012, 09:57 PM
Ruger 10/22 or a marlin 60 are both
Great rifles

docnyt
July 30, 2012, 10:06 PM
Good choices mentioned. I'd like to add the CZ452 but then again one of your buddies might grab it from you. :)

narcoden
July 30, 2012, 10:10 PM
Marlin 795. You can find them for a tad over $100. Great 22 to learn on.

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SlowFuse
July 30, 2012, 10:26 PM
I don't think exposing an absolute newbie to failures is a good idea. You're trying to make the shooting experience appeal to them in the best way possible. I believe dealing with failures should come later with more experience under their belt. Yes the 10/22 and model 60 are great rifles, I love them both. But for a young or brand new shooter... I see it as a bad idea. Everyone is different on their opinions. They can "grow into" the semi as experience comes but if they get into punching small groups you can't do any better than a quality bolt rifle.

trimore
July 31, 2012, 12:10 AM
Savage mark II.. I stared with a Marlin 60.(semi auto), and regret it. Don't get me wrong, the marlin 60 is a great gun but it is a little finicky with ammo and I think I like a magazine better than the tube. Also it has to be cleaned about every 100 rounds ..

After learning this I got my 10 year old a savage mark II youth model and we are very happy with it.. Don't have to worry about ammo, jams, etc. it is very accurate and a good trigger. It is not the cheapest nor the most expensive 22 but I doubt you will regret it.. One for myself is on my short list after the Savage 14 American Classic I just ordered

jason41987
July 31, 2012, 12:26 AM
i used to be a big remington fan, but not anymore, their CQ has been going down and theyre taking marlin with it... as of now the brands i stick to most are ruger, savage, and CZ... so ill probably go for the 10/22

Grunt
July 31, 2012, 01:27 AM
Well, both me and my son found a .22 single shot (in his case a Crickett due to it's reduced size suited for his age) is always a good choice. Tell me that's not a happy face!:D

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/USMCGruntUSAFCATM/Firearms/misc/Bryan21June2012Wyoming.jpg

OhioChief
July 31, 2012, 01:34 AM
I learned on a Savage 22LR bolt. But you might consider a .22 semi auto. Here's a thought, Hi Point 9mm carbine. ammo's reasonable. Gun is inexpensive. great fun to shoot and is a step above the .22. Just a thought. We have two in .40 and love them.

jason41987
July 31, 2012, 03:15 AM
for the price of .22lr ammo, theres just a lot more learning experience available for the same amount of money.. $20 gets you 500 rounds vs 50 so i think .22lr would definitely be best...

as for single shot.. i think that could kind of get boring having to reload after every shot.. and it would be good to get them to shoot more... 10/22 uses a rotary mag, which is probably going to be more reliable than the box mags other semis use.. so it would offer good reliability... so i think that wuold be the best route... also, with the stocks for the 10/22 i could get stocks that would fit anyones size and need

also.. the people that see me shoot usually see me shooting semi automatics and its what they eventually want to move onto.. so i think after listening to everyones advice here, i will in fact go semi, and as i am a rather large fan of the ruger company its hard to ignore the aftermarket that comes with the 10/22

TyGuy
July 31, 2012, 04:57 AM
Imho the Ruger 10/22 has funky controls. I own one, but I shoot my Marlin 795 much mich more.

jason41987
July 31, 2012, 06:13 AM
my concern with the marlins is how all marlins have seem to been going downhill since remington has taken over.. makes me wonder how many corners theyre trying to cut with manufacturing

Centurian22
July 31, 2012, 06:44 AM
It's all been said but 1 more vote for the following:

Semi: Marlin 795, or 60, or Ruger 10/22

Bolt: Savage Mark II, or some type of single shot.

I have an old J.C. Higgins .22 single shot bolt action that belonged to my grandfather. If I'm not mistaken it was produced around 1959 and still operates Flawlessly.

Best of luck and congrats on training some new shooters! Well done.

BadWool
July 31, 2012, 10:34 AM
Walmart has the Mossberg Plinkster 702 for $107 right now, at least here in VA. Price is probably the same in most regions. Decent lightweight rifle, nothing spectacular......just a good general purpose/critter rifle for around the house and would be a good candidate to train noobs with no doubt.

Captains1911
July 31, 2012, 10:38 AM
Highly recommend a Ruger 10/22 with good iron sights (Tech Sights) or a scope. Set it up with a GI web sling and take them all to Appleseed to learn to shoot. It is well worth the time and money and is a lot of fun.

Exactly what he said.

Captains1911
July 31, 2012, 10:39 AM
Imho the Ruger 10/22 has funky controls. I own one, but I shoot my Marlin 795 much mich more.
What controls in particular? The bolt release is quirky but that's easily remedied with a $10 auto-bolt release, or you can modify the factory part yourself. Also, all new 10/22s come with a factory extended mag release.

One_Jackal
July 31, 2012, 10:50 AM
A friend of the family loaned me a 22 bolt action. After about 50 shots I was like screw a 22. I have a shotgun that gets the job done. Then I got a Marlin 60 for Christmas. The only time I used the shotgun was for hunting. All my range time went to the 22. Well, until a local game warden introduced me to skeet shooting. I was hooked for life!!

goon
July 31, 2012, 10:51 AM
I've eyed up the Savage MKII rifles too - and at $150 or so at WalMart they sound like a pretty good buy. I'd probably try one of them first, but I also really like the 10/22. It's what I learned on at the age of 4 and I've taught many others on one as well.

Kp321
July 31, 2012, 10:56 AM
I have worked with young shooters in 4H and Boy Scouts for 40 years. Go with an accurate bolt action first, preferably with peep sights. There are fewer new bolt actions on the market now than in the past so look at the used market. The Remington 500 series comes to mind first. My first new .22 was a Remington 511 which I have been shooting for 50 years and it is still very accurate and 100% reliable. If a rifle is not accurate and reliable, a youngster will lose interest quickly. The 10-22 is fun and accurate but is not as easy to keep safe as a bolt action. Teach the basics on a bolt action then move to a semi-auto.

cfullgraf
July 31, 2012, 11:26 AM
wouldnt the occasional feeding or extracting malfunction be a good thing and part of the learning experience should one occur?... wouldnt want someone to be in the dark if they purchase a rifle of their own and experience such a scenario

With a new shooter, there is also a safety issue. Loading single rounds mean when the gun has been fired, it is no longer loaded and less of a problem should the shooter momentarily forget safe gun handling practices.

Loading single rounds also makes the shooter slow down and work on the basics of good marksmanship rather than "pray and spray" techniques that semi-auto arms with a magazine full of ammunition fosters.

While a 10/22 could be loaded with one round per magazine, a bolt rifle is much easier, less time consuming, and fewer loading issues.

Ideally, if the new shooter could experience a couple of different firearms once he becomes proficient, his choice of purchase would be better. That is frequently not an option though.

While I do not feel a 10/22 is the best for a beginner to start on, the early learning of the basics is usually fairly quick and can be done on a 10/22 (single loading). Then the instruction can move on to more fun activities.

Now, for the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say.

My daughter went to a summer camp a number of years ago where that had a shooting activity for campers. They used 10/22s and most of the campers were not familiar with firearms before beginning the activity.

I do not remember how they started the shooters, but they were taught to remove the magazine and cycle the action to make sure the gun was clear before setting the gun down. Since the factory 10/22 leaves the bolt closed on an empty magazine, this is a good practice. My daughter still does this when she shoots her 10/22. (Some ranges may have different requirements and the operation of a 10/22 may need to be adjusted to match)

tuj
July 31, 2012, 11:27 AM
savage mkII

TonyAngel
July 31, 2012, 02:32 PM
After having eased four boys into the sport of shooting, I'll say that a Savage bolt action is the way to go. The mags are easy to load and manipulate and the operation is easily taught.

When teaching someone with no shooting experience, you really want them to be able to concentrate on learning how to shoot, not on how to operate the rifle.

BadWool
July 31, 2012, 02:51 PM
After having eased four boys into the sport of shooting, I'll say that a Savage bolt action is the way to go. The mags are easy to load and manipulate and the operation is easily taught.

When teaching someone with no shooting experience, you really want them to be able to concentrate on learning how to shoot, not on how to operate the rifle.
I disagree a little with your statement TonyAngel.

Learning to shoot includes the operation of any firearm. Loading, safety device/switch utilization, cocking, obtaining sight picture while aiming down range, breathing management, squeezing the trigger, rendering safe again..........all part of shooting the firearm but also important steps in the operation of the same firearm. You just can't have one without the other.

Teach the basic steps from the beginning so people have an understanding of how complex it can be to punch center mass consistently with a properly zero'd firearm. If they find it to be to much, send them packing, we don't need to risk having more people who can't appreciate the art of shooting to be the next accident that mars the hobby.

vaupet
July 31, 2012, 03:08 PM
I use a single shot bolt action Anschutz 64 i got used for around 200 €.
Its just perfect for the job

mac66
July 31, 2012, 04:17 PM
I used to think a bolt was the only way to go to teach kids. However, I've seen lots and lots and lots of kids who never shot before go through Appleseed. What is amazing is that only after a little bit of instruction they can manipulate and shoot a semi auto accurately, sling up into a web sling and get into prone, sitting or standing positions. Not only can they do it, they can do it confidently, competently and safely.

jason41987
July 31, 2012, 11:07 PM
well, besides my niece whos been wanting to learn how to shoot, and neither of her parents know how, it would probably fall to me to teach her properly but most the people who are interested are young adults whos parents werent able to teach them or didnt want them to own any rifles, and now theyre old enough to buy their own but need to learn how to shoot first

but... since it will be my rifle to keep and im not in the market for a lot of .22lrs, its going to have to be something for me to have fun shooting daily as well, and coming off of full size bolt actions with 3" long pulls... trying to cycle a little .22lr bolt is akward for me because im not used to only having to move the bolt a very short distance to cycle...

im inclined to avoid marlin products right now.. until remington starts to understand what quality control is.. so im looking at the other semi auto options, but i think ill go with the 10/22

PictishWolf
August 1, 2012, 12:57 AM
We have a 10/22 with an ATI folding adjustable stock and a Crickett. My 10yr-old son loves the Crickett because it's "his" but the 10/22, being adjustable, can be used by all of us (5,7,10,11,36,39-yrs). If you spend a little more on ammo for it (CCI Tacticals = zero cycling problems), it works very well. There are numerous upgrades/mods available (get the auto bolt release, should come that way). Also, check out the Take-down version. I want one. :)

QuietEarp
August 1, 2012, 01:03 AM
Sounds like the OP needs a .22 for his own reasons as well. It will be money well spent.

MacTech
August 1, 2012, 01:11 AM
My nephew (10 years old) has tried all three action types I have, semiauto (10/22), bolt (CZ 452, Marlin 25), and lever (Marlin 39A)…

His absolute favorite?

The 39A lever, closely followed by my CZ Ultralux… he wasn't a big fan of the 10/22, said it just felt wrong to him, not natural, he missed the interactivity of a manual action gun

For first timers of any age, you can't go wrong with a good reliable bolt, best place to start

Wildcat_Charlie
August 1, 2012, 01:49 AM
I learned to shoot on a Stevens 15, single shot .22. But good luck finding one of those for a reasonable price. For a while it was possible to find good used ones but they are way too expensive now. Still a single shot, bolt action .22 is no doubt the best rifle for a young person to learn to shoot with. But you never said you were dealing with kids. You said friends so I'm assuming you're talking about adult friends.

For adults I might go with a semi-auto with a scope. The thing about a semi-auto is you can see where your bullets are hitting if you're shooting with the right background. Your students can learn when they are on the mark and when they aren't. The truth is the best way to learn is to practice pulling the trigger until you're sure you aren't moving the rifle around when you pull it. Stick a laser on a rifle that can have the trigger pulled over and over (most rimfires shouldn't be dry fired that way) or stick an empty casing or a snap cap into the rifle. Then watch what the laser does when you pull the trigger. If it moves then you aren't going to hit what you're shooting at. Learn to pull that trigger so that the laser doesn't move and you'll be able to shoot very well in a very short time. Nothing encourages new shooters more than hitting what they aim at.

Plus you can learn safe rifle handling techniques with an empty rifle.

The second best way to learn to shoot is to shoot at something that has a dusty area around the target so that the dust flies up when you shoot. Actually water can be great for this if you can find a safe place to shoot into water. That's not easy to do and unless you know how to determine if it's safe I'd stay away from water. But a dusty field with a lot of space behind the target (I'm talking half a mile or more) can be great. Your students can see where there shots are going. And they can learn to make adjustments to keep their shots on target.

Again shooting what you want to hit is a great reward for new shooters. It's how I trained my kids to shoot. I have a creek where I can shoot down to the opposite creek bank and the ground is dry there most of the time so it's dusty. Plus there's a big hill behind what I'm shooting. The creek only runs when there's a big rain so I'm not shooting into water.

As for the particular rifle I'd pick either a Marlin 60 or a Ruger 10/22 if it was adults I was teaching. Both are excellent rifles and neither is likely to jam a lot. If they do jam just make sure your students know what to do before hand. Don't wait until the start swinging the rifle around saying it's stuck. Be sure to tell them ahead of time what to do.

I've seen 10/22's with silencers that also work like brakes. I know you don't get much recoil on a .22 but it will keep the rifle right on target after you pull the trigger so again the students will see where their shots are going. I don't know how many you will be teaching or how many guns you will want but IMO one or two will probably be enough unless you have 50 students. I would want to be able to watch a new shooter closely and that's hard to do if you have 50 people shooting at once. The others can watch as you teach the one with the gun in their hands. The others will learn just as fast that way.

Sheepdog1968
August 1, 2012, 01:54 AM
Highly recommend a Ruger 10/22 with good iron sights (Tech Sights) or a scope. Set it up with a GI web sling and take them all to Appleseed to learn to shoot. It is well worth the time and money and is a lot of fun.

If the 10/22 is too expensive look at the Marlin 795 or the Remington 597 in that order.
My advice as well.

toivo
August 1, 2012, 03:42 AM
I help out with a youth shooting program we have at my club. Most of the kids are using Savage or Marlin bolt-action rifles. A few kids have semi-autos. They're the ones who are clearing jams while the others are just happily banging away. Once they clear the jam, they tend to go off to the races, and their accuracy goes out the window.

Bolt-action rimfires are practically foolproof. I'm a firm believer in starting people on bolt-actions, whether they're adults or kids.

You can't go wrong with a Savage MKII. It can even be had with a heavy barrel and peep sight (FVT model) if you look around.

TonyAngel
August 1, 2012, 11:13 AM
It appears that there are two prevalent camps on this subject, which just goes to show that needs differ.

MacTech, your post sort of struck a chord with me. My youngest is now 13 and we have all sorts of .22s. Ruger Marks, semi-auto rifles and even an AR 15-22; but what gets used the most are our Henry lever gun and the single action revolver. I guess their just plain fun to shoot.

jotjackson
August 1, 2012, 11:19 AM
Grunt, the smile says it all.

pmata814
August 1, 2012, 01:36 PM
Im new to rifles,just picked it up this summer, and i started with a 10/22. I also bught a buckmark pistol and last week added the marlin 60 to my small collection. All of these weapons are semiauto and i really dont get why people keep mentioning jamming issues. My bros and i go to the range once a week and i put a minimum of 250 rnds through my weapons. I hardly ever experience any jamming issues. My pistol did have some issues with the walmart ammo my bro uses but after the first 50 rnds with my federal champion ammo even that problem dissapeared. I may have had one or two jams on my 10/22. Whats more...my bro bought a marlin xt22 bolt action last week and first day out we had a lot of issues with the bolt not extracting the fired case :-\

One thing to consider is the fun factor of a semiauto. You want ur friends to have fun their first time out shooting too :-)






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303tom
August 1, 2012, 03:05 PM
A Savage mkII & a couple bricks of .22 LR, under $200 + tax, best bang for your buck...............

Dr.Rob
August 1, 2012, 04:45 PM
Marlin bolt action 22. About as simple as it gets and they shoot pretty well.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/xt/XT22.asp

pseudonymity
August 1, 2012, 07:08 PM
Highly recommend a Ruger 10/22 with good iron sights (Tech Sights) or a scope. Set it up with a GI web sling and take them all to Appleseed to learn to shoot. It is well worth the time and money and is a lot of fun.

If the 10/22 is too expensive look at the Marlin 795 or the Remington 597 in that order.

++ for this, especially the Appleseed part. If you get a 10/22, get the stock with the front swivel stud included, or you will need to install one yourself. 795 includes studs in the standard stock. Both are reliable, light, relatively inexpensive and magazines are pretty commonly available. Tech Sights are great, an inexpensive scope may be a bit less cash.

By all means though, seriously consider the Appleseed, and for the new shooters, it should be sooner rather than later. I can not say enough good things about the Appleseeds I have attended and the less experienced a shooter is, the more value an Appleseed will have.

One_Jackal
August 2, 2012, 01:36 AM
Appleseed is without a doubt the best training for new shooters. Sooner is better! If the shooters first experience is with appleseed they will have good fundamentals for life. The goal of appleseed training is to teach the shooter to hit a one inch square at 250 yards.

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 03:36 AM
the people interested are more interested in military semis.. so a semi auto would definitely be better for them to learn on to teach them various techniques with semis, such as properly clearing jams, and rendering semi automatics safe after firing, etc

Centurian22
August 2, 2012, 04:33 PM
If budget isn't too much of an issue and military-like application is the goal you could consider the S&W M&P 15-22. I have heard great things about them.

Grunt
August 2, 2012, 09:02 PM
The biggest problem with an auto and the reason I started out my son wiht a single shot bolt rifle is the tendency to develop the "spray and pray" mentality rather than the "one shot, one kill" mentality of a single shot. Miss and there is no rapid second shot available. When I was a kid, my dad started me out with his old Winchester 69A. After a little coaching he sent me out onto the cattle ranges to pick off a gopher and bring it back to the farm cats. Did I mention he took away the magazine and sent me out with only 1 round?:D Catch was, bring back the body, you get another round to go out and get another one. However, no body, no bullets so you learned fast to be accurate and patient so he doesn't crawl away back into a hole before you can get him to bring back. Paied big dividens later on when even when I got older and had a 10/22 that the marksmanship lessons still stuck and the magazine was simply a place to carry extra ammo for additional gophers. No, I'll go to my grave swearing that the single shot .22 is the best way to start out a new shooter.

TyGuy
August 3, 2012, 01:13 AM
Yes the bolt catch/relese is funky. The safety, that I could take or leave. I also am not a fan of the magazine. If it get stuck in there during a timed shoot you are in trouble. I still shoot my 10/22, but I prefer the Marlin, but everyone has opinions right?

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