how does the palmetto state armory rifle stack up?


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Fremmer
July 31, 2012, 02:16 AM
How does the palmetto state armory m4 compare to a doublestar, delton, or bushmaster?

I understand it isn't a colt-lmt-bravo rifle, but how good is the palmetto? Anyone seen one in a class? Opinions?

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Mr.357Sig
July 31, 2012, 02:20 AM
I've heard good things about them. Also like BCM and Loki. I had been looking at Colt, but decided to go with Loki for my AR.

Shmackey
July 31, 2012, 02:29 AM
They are very, very good.

fanchisimo
July 31, 2012, 08:14 AM
I have put a couple thousand rounds through mine and have not had any FTE's, FTF's, or any other issues. At a hundred meters it has no trouble consistently hitting a man sized target at semi-rapid firing from a standing position. From the prone or a bench rest I can usually keep it around 1 MOA if I am having a good day. Only problem is I keep sinking more money into toys for it. Lol.

RatDrall
July 31, 2012, 09:43 AM
A friend of mine has a few PSA uppers, some with the cold hammer forged uppers and some standard. All of them malfunction every once in a while. While decent, they're not as good as Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, or other top tier rifles. I would compare them to other mid-tier ARs, like CMMG and S&W. PSA uppers have great features and specs, but there is something a little bit off that they don't run right all the time (the ones I've seen).

They also have serious customer service issues, with multi-week shipping times and shipping the wrong items common. They run great sales and have way more orders than they can handle and get bogged down frequently.

It might be worth mentioning that their cold hammer forged barrels are made by FN.

Fishbed77
July 31, 2012, 09:49 AM
A PSA rifle is going to generally be superior to Doublestar, Del-ton, or (especially) Bushmaster.

PSA is more similar in quality to other parts-bin "mil-spec" rifles like BCM, Spikes, DD, or Colt. In fact, the finish of the PSA rifles are a good bit better than the last few Colts I've seen. The FN barrels PSA uses are a definite plus as well.

One thing you have to take into account is that the low prices on the PSA rifles are an introductory thing to get the brand established; the prices have been creeping up quite a bit lately.

holdencm9
July 31, 2012, 11:49 AM
I really like mine (16" m4gery carbine). Haven't run it through any courses yet, but over 1000 rounds and no malfunctions of any sort. Feeds steel-cased ammo just fine, everything seemed to be finished well and as far as accuracy I assume it is as good as any other FN chrome-lined barrel. I have only ever ran it with iron sights and red dot. One day I will mount a scope and see how good it is out to 100 yards. Overall I was very pleased with my $600 purchase.

So far, n=1 but I just recently ordered another, a 16" middy with heavy barrel and MOE handguard/grip/stock. Not bad for $750.

SwissArmyDad
July 31, 2012, 12:22 PM
Mine works like a champ. No issues. 16" middy-Moe with the FN hammer-forged barrel.

jmr40
July 31, 2012, 12:50 PM
If you look at the specs of the parts they use in their guns you are getting a lot of high quality parts for the money. I think they are right with Colt for about $400 less. I have one complete rifle, and an upper I bought that I put on a Rock River lower. The upper I bought has an FN made barrel. Cannot say for sure about the other, but both have been excellent for the money.

kwelz
July 31, 2012, 12:53 PM
They have had some major growing pains but seem to be doing what they can to correct those problems quickly and address new ones as they come up. I would not put them up there with DD, DCM, Colt, LMT, or Noveske yet. But they are above most others and working to improve.

plouffedaddy
July 31, 2012, 01:57 PM
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG1129.jpg

They're great. I've built at least 10 (some for friends) and none of them have any issues that I'm aware of. The ones I own and shoot have never had a malfunction to speak of and the 16'' HBAR above is the most accurate AR I own. Tough to beat for the money IMO.

Z-Michigan
July 31, 2012, 02:10 PM
I would rank them in the ballpark of Spike's and S&W. Definitely below top tier, definitely above the brands like DPMS, CMMG, Olympic, and Bushmaster.

It's hard to compare vs. Del-Ton because Del-Ton has greatly improved their quality and specs in the last couple years. A Del-Ton from 2007 is not so hot, while a current one is pretty decent and probably in the ballpark with the PSA. Del-Ton does do a good job on quality of assembly, but where they've failed in the past has been quality of components.

I think PSA is a good value as long as you understand you aren't getting a DD or BCM rifle for that price. You're getting something that matches 80-90% of the specs, but doesn't have the same level of quality control or attention to detail.

I own or have owned all the brands listed above except Olympic.

TonyAngel
July 31, 2012, 02:56 PM
From what I've seen, PSA uses quality parts in their builds, but are experiencing some growing pains. PSA is probably now where Spike's Tactical or BCM were a couple to a few years ago.

Considering what you get for the price, I'd expect their prices to start climbing. Geez, they are selling a chromelined, hammer forged barrel made by FN for just over $200. Who ever heard of such a thing?

I suspect that those that are having problems with products from PSA are having those problems due to some sort of quality control issue with regard to assembly. With a system as simple as that of an AR's, the magic is in the details.

As for your comparisons, PSA is now what Delton used to be; that is, the bang for the buck leader in DIY parts and components; although I do believe that PSA is better than Delton is/was. With regard to the Double Star and Bushmaster comparison, I'd take a PSA over either of those, any day.

wkumatt
July 31, 2012, 03:13 PM
My current AR is a SS Bull .223 Wylde Middy from PSA on an SAA stripped lower.

Completely happy with it except the bolt catch had a small burr in the hole that would not allow the bolt catch roll pin to go in. It was difficult to remove as any tool you went after it with tried to woller the (3/32) hole out. I finally chucked a tiny metal cutter (made for dremel tool) into my drill press and used a cross slide press vice to hold the bolt catch and mill the burr off.

In my mind anyone could have missed that in an unassembled rifle. Otherwise very impressed with the rifle, less than 700 invested with all MOE furniture.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

SpentCasing
July 31, 2012, 06:11 PM
Id take a PSA over a current Colt 6920 due to CHF FN bbl and middy gas. Well I did do just that actually. Mine ran like a champ in a 2 day advanced carbine course. Shot something like 1500rds in a weekend. I got mine last year at an amazing price but as others have said their prices continue to rise as their overhead and reputation does.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt16/xxtrothxx/100_1752.jpg


ETA: Im not a brand vs brand guy like you see on certain other sites. Im a bring what ya got and lets go train guy. As long as its built to at least milspecs it should hold just fine. If it isnt, still "run what ya brung" with the understanding that you may have to replace some parts or buy twice.

henschman
August 1, 2012, 12:20 PM
For those who state where PSA's quality stands, compared to other brands, I'm not sure what it is based on other than their own preconceived notions or maybe a sample of one or two. I personally seek more solid info on which to base an informed opinion. As far as the specs, materials, and quality checks on the parts go, PSA is on par with any of the other mil-spec mfg's like Colt and BCM. If I saw data where PSA parts mic'ed out at non-spec sizes or something like that compared to the others, I might be inclined to believe that they are not on par... but I have not seen anything like that. I have seen where all 3 companies occasionally turn out a defective rifle, and it would appear that all 3 are good about replacing it when this happens. As was mentioned, PSA's shipping seems to be slower than the others.

One area in which PSA is superior is that they offer a greater variety of setups, with different barrel lengths, weights, gas systems, and options for aftermarket parts. And of course their prices are much lower than the other mil-spec mfg's.

kwelz
August 1, 2012, 12:23 PM
The specs that go into a rifle is only one part of what makes a good company. Testing, QC, and Support are also just as important.

If you don't have all 4 then there are going to be problems. PSA has been great in the specs and Support section but have shown to be a bit lacking in the Testing and QC departments.

They have stated that they have corrected these issues and are doing better. I for one tend to think this is the case. But I am waiting a bit before I am willing to pick one up and see for myself.

henschman
August 1, 2012, 01:16 PM
Testing and QC? Palmetto has individually MPI and HPT barrels and bolts just like the other mil spec mfg's. What QC practices do the others do that are better?

SwissArmyDad
August 1, 2012, 01:44 PM
Off-topic, I apologize... but Spentcasing, could I ask what optic do you have on your AR?

I have almost exactly the same rifle aside from my Elzetta light mount, and am actively trying to find a compact lightweight optic.

It it a holo-sight of some sort?

Frankl03
August 1, 2012, 02:09 PM
All the components I bought from PSA have been top notch! The AR I currently own has a PSA Upper with the chf barrel by FN. I paired it with a spikes lower I built with a PSA parts kit. The rifle has been great, very reliable.

kwelz
August 1, 2012, 03:31 PM
Testing and QC? Palmetto has individually MPI and HPT barrels and bolts just like the other mil spec mfg's. What QC practices do the others do that are better?

Testing of complete rifles not just components. They have had a number of problems in this regards. But as I said they seem to be trying to fix it.

henschman
August 1, 2012, 04:17 PM
True, I guess it doesn't say anywhere on their site that they actually test fire their rifles and upper assemblies before they ship them, like BCM says they do. I suppose firing a few rounds before shipping can catch some of the worst production errors, like uppers that are drilled badly off center. Still, on arfcom I have seen some BCM's that have made it through their QC with that problem (and were promptly replaced of course).

I still don't think that firing them before shipping makes them worth $200 + more than Palmetto.

SpentCasing
August 1, 2012, 04:57 PM
Off-topic, I apologize... but Spentcasing, could I ask what optic do you have on your AR?

No problem bud. Its an Eotech XPS 2-0. Yes, its a true holographic weapon sight. Runs off of 1 CR123 battery tranversly mounted to solve the problems other Eotechs had with recoil.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/sights-optics/shop-by-brand/eotech/eotech-xps-2-0.html

SwissArmyDad
August 1, 2012, 05:49 PM
Thank you, sir!

SpentCasing
August 1, 2012, 06:49 PM
True, I guess it doesn't say anywhere on their site that they actually test fire their rifles and upper assemblies before they ship them, like BCM says they do.

PSA has stated publicly that they test every rifle/ upper assy that goes out the door. They defiantly tested my upper as it reeked of that sulfur M855 smell.

holdencm9
August 1, 2012, 07:11 PM
Testing of complete rifles not just components. They have had a number of problems in this regards. But as I said they seem to be trying to fix it.

PSA has stated publicly that they test every rifle/ upper assy that goes out the door. They defiantly tested my upper as it reeked of that sulfur M855 smell.

Yeah and when you actually go to the website and click on an upper for details it says this:

"Each upper is assembled to order with US-made parts, and test fired to check gas function."

Not sure if that has always been the case, or if there are more advanced test-firings they could do, but it is written right there. Might be partly in response to some of the issues they had. I have heard some people have had headaches, my first one was good and I'll report soon on my second one. It's hard to get too upset when IMO you get comparable to a Colt for $300 less.

And yes, I have been waiting almost 10 days for my new AR, but I knew that going in, as it was prominently displayed on the website before I ordered. If it doesn't get here in ANOTHER 10 days, I'll take issue with that and be sure to report back!

Fremmer
August 1, 2012, 09:20 PM
thanks everyone, i really appreciate it. good to hear the psq made it through that class!

I'm asking because i just cant afford a colt, bravo, lmt, etc. theres just no way. so im looking at options. :)

meanmrmustard
August 1, 2012, 09:22 PM
thanks everyone, i really appreciate it. good to hear the psq made it through that class!

I'm asking because i just cant afford a colt, bravo, lmt, etc. theres just no way. so im looking at options. :)
There's really no need to. The PSA will do what they can, except hurt your wallet as much.

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