USA made, or atleast new AK trunnions/carriers?


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jason41987
July 31, 2012, 02:33 AM
hey everyone.. besides an AR15 project ive been ironing out for this fall, im also thinking of putting together an AK from all USA made parts if possible, if not, then atleast new parts, never used or installed... probably be a 7.62 AKM stamped rifle and it seems i can find all the parts new accept the carrier and front trunnion.. any suggestions on where i can find these?

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briansmithwins
July 31, 2012, 03:12 AM
Most parts are going to be used surplus.

K-Var often has new parts. I'd try them first.

BSW

Sam1911
July 31, 2012, 07:48 AM
No, I don't think so. Century did something like that with their Centurion rifle, but that's milled, and I don't think we'd say it was a rousing success.

On the other hand, I'd sure like to build an AR-15 out of Russian and Chinese parts. Just a weird itch I have, so I guess I understand the "why."

Scott7891
July 31, 2012, 04:33 PM
A 100% USA-made stamped AKM is impossible.

There are some parts that U.S. manufacturers do not manufacture at all and require a parts kit.

These parts are:

magazine catch and assembly
trigger guard
gas block
rear-sight base
front sight base
front trunnion
bolt
bolt carrier
recoil assembly
trigger hammer spring
plunger pin spring
and other various internal parts...

jason41987
July 31, 2012, 04:35 PM
well, thats unfortunate, it would be nice to actually have a new AK rifle... and not something made from old military parts often of questionable quality control

Scott7891
July 31, 2012, 04:38 PM
well, thats unfortunate, it would be nice to actually have a new AK rifle... and not something made from old military parts often of questionable quality control

Buy an Arsenal. All parts are 100% new, no surplus, and they have excellent quality control compared to other U.S. mass builders who only use surplus parts.

Or if you are a do-it-yourself kind of person like you seem to be buy a Saiga and convert it.

Sam1911
July 31, 2012, 04:40 PM
The converted Saigas (like Arsenal is putting out) are new AK and about as close to what you're asking for as you can get.

One_Jackal
July 31, 2012, 04:41 PM
I have been getting good service from these people for quite a while. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

jason41987
July 31, 2012, 09:37 PM
are the parts on the saiga the same as those as on other AKs?.. what i mean is, which trunnion designs do they actually use? are they those of the russian AKM or are they something unique to the saiga, and which parts would be interchangable with an AKM or similar AK of different calibers?

fatcat4620
July 31, 2012, 09:42 PM
The guy building the saiga grabs his parts from the same bin as the guy building the AKM (more or less)

Ian
July 31, 2012, 09:45 PM
Have you ever seen an out-of-spec military AK part?

Sam1911
July 31, 2012, 10:24 PM
are the parts on the saiga the same as those as on other AKs?.. what i mean is, which trunnion designs do they actually use? are they those of the russian AKM or are they something unique to the saiga, and which parts would be interchangable with an AKM or similar AK of different calibers?
The differences are almost entirely cosmetic. If you look at the full conversions done by companies like Arsenal, you'll be pretty hard pressed to tell the difference.

jason41987
August 1, 2012, 05:23 AM
i think ill probably just spend extra and get a really good condition military AK parts kit, perhaps unissued.. probably russian, egyptian, or polish.. any opinions on the yugos?

jason41987
August 1, 2012, 04:25 PM
i think in light of all of this ill find a good condition polish AK, purchase for it a new barrel, and better parts where possible... i do believe i might get a different rear trunnion though as im not sure i really want to go with an underfolder since theyll cause problems with coupled magazines, casket mags, and certain forearms.. and ill go as new as i can with the polish parts

that being said.. perhaps i should just find a matching carrier/front trunnion and purchase everything else seperately since i know i can get the rest new

fatcat4620
August 1, 2012, 07:09 PM
A saiga rifle is the best way to get all the best new parts you want.

Shear_stress
August 1, 2012, 07:36 PM
i think in light of all of this ill find a good condition polish AK, purchase for it a new barrel, and better parts where possible... i do believe i might get a different rear trunnion though as im not sure i really want to go with an underfolder since theyll cause problems with coupled magazines, casket mags, and certain forearms.. and ill go as new as i can with the polish parts

You're making this way too complicated. By the time you buy that Polish rifle and swap parts around to achieve whatever goal you have in mind you might as well have bought an Arsenal SGL-21. The SGL will have been made from brand new, matching parts and will have a warranty and actual resale value. Plus, it is the closest thing you will get to a brand new AK 100 series rifle without joining the Russian military.

WardenWolf
August 1, 2012, 08:11 PM
I'm not sure if the AK Lightning Bolt carrier made by Colorado Shooting Sports is truly US-made or just a retrofit. I do know they will refit your existing bolt carrier, though. That's a modification that gives you a left-side charging handle. Not something I would ever do, but some people like it.

US Palm is currently developing a takedown AK. I'm pretty sure everything in it is US-made, as it has to be custom-built.

jason41987
August 1, 2012, 08:19 PM
im going to look into the US palm AK for curiosity, but ultimately ill end up probably just going with a polish kit for matching parts, and rebuild it with as many newer, better condition parts as i go along

JustinJ
August 1, 2012, 08:50 PM
i think ill probably just spend extra and get a really good condition military AK parts kit, perhaps unissued.. probably russian, egyptian, or polish.. any opinions on the yugos?

Bulgarian and Russian are generally considered the two top AK makers in the world. Good luck finding a parts kit from the latter. Luckily Bulgarian are readily available.

However, if you want the highest quality and most authentic AK available then Arsenal is the ONLY way to go. Both their Russian and Bulgarian guns have the exact same receivers, trunions, bolts, carriers, barrels, etc as the military AK's of those countries. All said parts are brand spanking new. They are also put together by the same people in the same plant that the military guns come out of. The are imported in a configuration that facilitates addition of the final necessary american which is just furniture and trigger.

Converting a Saiga is fine and dandy however to get it to true AK configuration will almost certainly cost far more than just buying an arsenal out right.

jason41987
August 1, 2012, 09:19 PM
were the bulgarians made from the same blueprints and specs as the russians?

Ian
August 1, 2012, 09:51 PM
I really think Arsenal is overhyped. Get an AK from any reputable company, and it will work just fine. If you want a specific nationality, go for it - otherwise choose the type of stock you want (standard fixed, Yugo fixed, underfolder, AK-100 sidefolder, or wire sidefolder) and then find a rifle that comes with it.

I've built a couple Romanian kits with home-bent receivers, and my first one looks like a terrible hack job that you would never consider buying. It has two spot welds that burned through the receiver, deformed and poorly shaped rivets, and crudely cut guide rails for the bolt carrier. And yet it works just fine.

Buying an AK is like buying a Glock: find one, pay for it, burn up ammo. No need to stress out overthinking it.

Auto426
August 1, 2012, 11:07 PM
You're making this way too complicated.

I'll second that notion.

If you want an AK with all new parts, buy a Saiga and convert it yourself or buy one that's already been converted by a converted by a company like Arsenal. Saigas are built in the same factory and on the same production lines as the AK-74M's which are currently the standard issue rifle for the Russian military. They are brand new rifles made for export rifles, none of the parts are surplus or used.

Arsenal is the most popular company out there for conversions because they take the new in box Saigas and convert them back to AK-100 series standards using new American made parts to meet 922r compliance. They have very good build quality, a warranty, and a decent resale value. There's no need to re-invent the wheel here to get a good quality AK.

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 01:29 AM
im looking for something to build, more than something to buy

fatcat4620
August 2, 2012, 05:55 AM
Have you ever built an AK before?

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 05:59 AM
yeah i have... but i had to sell it for financial reasons so im looking for another one after my upcoming AR15 build.. and i want something rather high quality.. thats why i was curious as to how close to the russian AKs the bulgarians are

the AK is a bit of a difficult rifle to build.. moreso than for example, an AR15 which is why i built one to begin with.. to get more in depth in rifle design by building something a bit more complicated to put together.. pressing out rivets, removing the barrel, reinstalling trunnion, reinstalling barrel, checking the headspacing, finishing the metal.. but in all it was a fun project, so i have no problems building another... but im only looking to have one AK in my collection.. so i want to be sure this is a rather high quality model

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 07:47 AM
Well, if you can find a good condition Bulgarian parts kit, that's probably going to be your very best available choice, then.

I built mine on a Nodakspud receiver and have shot honest 2" groups off the bench with 7n6 ammo.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc184/sam1911/0912230050-1.jpg

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 08:05 AM
are the bulgarian AKs made from the same blueprints and specs as the russians?

also.. what would the recommendations be for a stamped receiver build?

Ian
August 2, 2012, 08:26 AM
There may be a few cosmetic differences, but yes. If you want Russian, like folks have said, get a Saiga. Or hang out on the AK forums and pick up a Russian AKM kit when someone decides to sell one. They're around, just not common.

For a stamped receiver, buy Nodak.

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 08:38 AM
Are they to the same blueprints? Honestly, I don't know for 100% sure. They are an AKM pattern rifle, they're of good quality, they work very well. Parts interchange. They certainly do meet the same specifications that the Russian rifle does. If there are some cosmetic differences, it is hard to see how that would matter.

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 08:53 AM
the bulgarian rifles appear to all be milled, im not sure if i wanted to go milled or not.. what would the highest quality stamped kits be?.. from which countries should i look into for stamped?

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 09:04 AM
I've never personally seen a milled one. The Bulgarian kits we're discussing are stamped. (Look again at my picture, should be obvious it isn't a milled gun, eh?)

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 09:25 AM
i cant see any photos... is yours a 47 or a 74?.. im finding tons of stamped bulgarians online and theyre all '74s, id like to find a 7.62 rifle though as the 5.45mm ballistics dont excite me

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 09:33 AM
Oh, mine's a 74. Sorry about the 7.62 issue. Can't help as much with that.

My -47 build is on a Romanian "G" kit. They're great too, if you can find one.

JustinJ
August 2, 2012, 09:44 AM
i cant see any photos... is yours a 47 or a 74?.. im finding tons of stamped bulgarians online and theyre all '74s, id like to find a 7.62 rifle though as the 5.45mm ballistics dont excite me

Unfortunately the only readily available Bulgarian kits in 7.62 are krinks. There may still be some E. German kits out there which would be a good alternative.

If you have the tools and know how to build an AK i'd look at a completing a full Saiga conversion. Must just move the trigger, screw on a new trigger guard, install a pistol grip and then call it an AK. To do a full conversion is much more involved which is why Arsenal is generally the best way to go. But if you have the tools I'd say do a true Saiga conversion yourself. You can also customize it along the way.

fatcat4620
August 2, 2012, 10:12 AM
You could always get your buddy to but a saiga, cut the receiver into 3 parts and sell it to you as a kit. It will cost about the same anyway.

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 10:21 AM
Now that's funny! :D

JustinJ
August 2, 2012, 10:41 AM
I'm pretty sure you could also get a Bulgarian 5.45 kit without barrel and build it as 7.62.

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 10:55 AM
That would be an interesting conversion. The ejector would need to be reshaped, but I'd imagine it would work otherwise. Might want to drill out the flash hider a bit.

JustinJ
August 2, 2012, 11:04 AM
What i wonder is if it would be possible to build a 16" barrel with a krink kit. That would be cool.

Sam1911
August 2, 2012, 11:18 AM
I think you'd have to deal with the gas port, at least. Not sure if the barrel stub is the same length, either. The barrel trunion is different/shorter -- at least on the AKS-74Us.

jason41987
August 2, 2012, 10:42 PM
actually.. since i dont have much desire for 5.45 as anything for more than plinking, and dont have a desire to really focus on multiple calibers in my rifles... my end goal is to actually convert one of these to 6.8mm SPC by having a 6.8mm SPC barrel made for it from a custom barrel manufacturer, and either machine out the bolt face for the rim, or design a new 6.8mm SPC bolt for it

as for intermediate caliber rifles go, i dont need a bunch of different calibers for it

so with this in mind... would it be a better idea to build a '74 now, and convert it later once the surplus ammo sources begin to dry up as the countries selling this stop producing it as they all seem to be switiching to 5.56mm?

Kurt_D
August 3, 2012, 01:34 AM
are the bulgarian AKs made from the same blueprints and specs as the russians?

also.. what would the recommendations be for a stamped receiver build?
100% depends on the rifle and time period being looked at. One thing is for certain, the Bulgarians build an AK at least on par with the Russian, and many say they are actually nicer.

Any who, if you're looking to build from virgin parts, as all US is impossible unless you can make your own small parts, K-var is probably your best bet. Be warned, it's expensive and LOTs of stuff is out of stock for long periods of time, if ever restocked. Ordering from over seas, like Russmilitary.com, is risky with long wait times.

Since you want a project, I think you're better off buying a ban-era imported milled receiver Arsenal, MAK-90 (either flavor), or a new Saiga. You'll need US parts (5 for milled, 6 for stamped) and the "evil" parts. Basically you could do a full on conversion on any of these, examples: A) the milled Arsenal will need a new FSB and small parts, GB, furniture (wood prefered), rear tang added/riveted, barrel thread 14x1 LH, and then refinished. B) The MAKs would be similar except for the rear tang. C) The Saiga would again need similar work plus: a new trigger guard/mag catch (to be proper), new handguard retainer (and barrel cut for it), extra holes welded, rear sight replaced, proper selecter added, and if your feeling froggy - replace the stock with a side folder: new side folding rear trunion rivited in (requires drilling extra hole for 3rd rivit), receiver trimmed to fit new trunion, rear stock catch milled/cut out, front folder catch holes milled/cut out, and pistol grip reinforcement plate welded in.

The Saiga can be the most involved as if you go all out you're only reusing the barreled receiver (including the rear sight block) and bolt carrier group; possibly the dust cover if it comes with the proper one. Plus the Saiga is all new and the conversion parts can be new/virgin or lightly used.

Kurt_D
August 3, 2012, 02:09 AM
actually.. since i dont have much desire for 5.45 as anything for more than plinking, and dont have a desire to really focus on multiple calibers in my rifles... my end goal is to actually convert one of these to 6.8mm SPC by having a 6.8mm SPC barrel made for it from a custom barrel manufacturer, and either machine out the bolt face for the rim, or design a new 6.8mm SPC bolt for it

as for intermediate caliber rifles go, i dont need a bunch of different calibers for it

so with this in mind... would it be a better idea to build a '74 now, and convert it later once the surplus ammo sources begin to dry up as the countries selling this stop producing it as they all seem to be switiching to 5.56mm? If you want 6.8 in the future, the 5.45 bolt may not be that far off as the 5.45's case head is larger than 5.56 already. 7.62 may work too if it's not already too large; 6.8 should fall in between those two.

Here's the thing, the Saigas are AK-100 series based AKs. In such all the internal parts are the same except the barrel (obviously the chamber and bore) and bolt face opening. Bolt, carrier, FCG, trunion dimensions are the same. I could see a 5.45 to 6.8 conversion not being all that "difficult." Press out old barrel. Press off FSB, GB, and RSB. Possibly have to open the bolt face up slightly. Press in new barrel until head space checks. Drill and pin new barrel. Press on all the stuff you pressed off the old barrel and you're done. I would think you could use Bulgarian circle 10 5.56 mags for the 6.8 IF the 5.45 mags won't feed.

jason41987
August 3, 2012, 06:00 AM
the case head of the 6.8mm is between that of the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39.. what im not sure of is the outter diameter of the bolt itself, is the exterior size of the bolt between the 7.62 and 5.45 the same or is the 7.62 bolt going to be larger and stronger?.. and if the 5.45 is in fact smaller would it be weakened any by machining it out for 6.8?..

if the 5.45 can safely be machined out then it would be a much better option for a conversion much later on, and the years leading up till then i could just take advantage of the low-cost 5.45mm ammunition... but.. i dont have a 47 and 74 bolt side by side to determine what would be better (if going with the AK47 then a new bolt would have to be made)... so ill let someone whos more familiar with '74s determine that

dprice3844444
August 3, 2012, 06:09 AM
green mountain barrels makes chrome lined

jason41987
August 3, 2012, 06:19 AM
oh.. to clarify.. the 6.8mm SPC rim is 0.7mm wider than that of the 5.45x39mm, and 0.65mm thinner than that of the 7.62x39mm, so its really dead center between the two, and this comes down to a fraction somewhere between 1/32 and 1/64 of an inch

jason41987
August 3, 2012, 01:20 PM
this is all besides the point... i think im going to order two parts kits, store one for later, and build one soon... one will be a stamped bulgarian '74, the other will be a stamped 47... so, what is the best made stamped 7.62 AKs that offer a fixed stock?..ive had a romanian before and didnt like it much so id like to go elsewhere for this one

jason41987
August 4, 2012, 12:10 AM
hmm.. i noticed on k-var theyre selling bulgarian 7.62mm trunnions... would it be possible to use this, and a bulgarian side folding trunnion with a milled bulgarian kit, but on a stamped receiver instead?

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