7.62x39 Question


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Para-Medic
July 31, 2012, 01:52 PM
There's been a few posts about 7.62x39 lately, and I'm more of a pistol guy, but I am curious.

Where does 7.62x39 rank as far as stopping power? I'm sure FMJ isn't all that impressive like with any caliber, but what about a JHP like from doubletap?

And if one wanted a rifle in a practical caliber but still have a lot of stopping power, what sort of caliber would one pick?

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rcmodel
July 31, 2012, 01:57 PM
It has been the military rifle caliiber for over 2/3 of the world for nearly 70 years.

It's safe to say if you get shot with one, you will probably stop doing whatever it was you were doing.

The FMJ military bullet tumbles and does a lot of damage.

As for stopping power?
There is no such thing.

Numerous people have been shot with major caliber military weapons and continue fighting until they die.

Practical power?
.223 AR-15.

Every SWAT Team in the country takes it to gun fights because it ends them.

rc

BadWool
July 31, 2012, 02:03 PM
The Soviets and Chinese have been providing plenty of 7.62x39 weapons around the planet. Since the end of WWII, everytime American soldiers have engaged the enemy, the primary response to our firepower has been the 7.62x39 (SKS and AK)........that alone speaks volumes of it's capability for stopping power.

Check out this website (http://www.frfrogspad.com/ballisti.htm#Begin) for a better understanding of internal/external/and terminal ballistics. For stopping power, you are interested in the terminal ballistics link indicated there.

fatcat4620
July 31, 2012, 02:20 PM
In JSP form it is almost as good as 30.30. As far as practical power the AKM has been the world standard for some time now. Although out does not have the range of 5.56 it does have much better barrier penetration.

mac66
July 31, 2012, 03:08 PM
It is a .30 caliber bullet fired at rifle velocity. That is really all you need to know.

T.R.
July 31, 2012, 03:34 PM
During WWII, the Soviets gathered extensive battle data. They determined that a long range bolt action rifle was not req'd for general infantry use in typical battle situations. They also determined that a semi-auto carbine with 10 cartridge capacity would be ideal. Thus the SKS carbine chambered for 7.62X39mm was developed.

This cartridge falls approximately half way between a pistol and rifle cartridge for power and trajectory. Recoil is moderate which means less training time for new troops. The cartridge and SKS carbine were proved to be a great success for the Soviets and their allies. American deer hunters discovered the SKS about 20 years ago when large numbers became available within the surplus market. The 7.62X39mm cartridge is entirely capable of taking deer sized game out to a distance of approx 200 yards using soft tip ammo. Typically, USA made ammo is more accurate than Russian made ammo due to consistent pressure.

The AK-47 is sort of like a spin off of the SKS. Primary advantages are detachable magazine and full auto capability. AK-47 rifles are among the most widely produced and in-use military arms of all time. Production figures are well into the millions. Many nations that are hostile to USA and our allies are armed with AK-47's.

TR

Reloadron
July 31, 2012, 04:11 PM
You may want to give this thread a read. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=669171&highlight=7.62+39+stopping+power) The questions of stopping power of the 7.62 X 39 surface frequently. The linked thread may help a little.

Ron

Sam Cade
July 31, 2012, 05:11 PM
After WWII ended, the Soviets gathered extensive battle data. They determined that a long range bolt action rifle was not req'd for general infantry use in typical battle situations. They also determined that a semi-auto carbine with 10 cartridge capacity would be ideal. Thus the SKS carbine chambered for 7.62X39mm was developed.


The 7.62x39mm cartridge was fully developed by 1943. Preproduction runs of the SKS45 were used by the 1BF for the last offensive.


The AK-47 is a spin off of the SKS.

The two designs are not related in any way.
The SKS is more or less a miniature PTRS-41

27hand
July 31, 2012, 08:36 PM
Here is some misc info on the cartridge itself

http://www.makeyourowngear.com/Articles.php?action=detail&g=content1146681053

meanmrmustard
July 31, 2012, 08:43 PM
.223 is great, I use it for deer and coyotes, but it's a round I don't want to trust MY life to. I know mileage is going to vary there, but that's my opinion.

As for 7.62x39? It's for when you absolutely, positively have to kill every crack head in the room. Period.

Marlin 45 carbine
July 31, 2012, 08:44 PM
I've used my Mini30 to fill a doe tag 3 times all 1 shot and down.
recovered 1 winny sp that went down the gullet seperated the jacket in the gut the lead in the pelvic bone.

rcmodel
July 31, 2012, 08:48 PM
After watching the Syrian uprising footage tonight on TV tonight.

If more AK-47 users worldwide were trained how to shoot an AK-47 accurately, we and they would all be dead by now!

I have never seen such a total lack of basis marksmanship fundamentals since the last newsreels of a middle-east wedding celebration!!!!

rc

TonyAngel
July 31, 2012, 08:51 PM
For what it's worth, and may not be representative, my cousin is an emergency room physician. He once told me of a guy that came through his ER that was hit 17 times in a firefight with a rival gang and was told by the cops that the weapon used was an AK47. The guy survived.

I guess there's still no replacement for shot placement.

Auto426
July 31, 2012, 08:59 PM
And if one wanted a rifle in a practical caliber but still have a lot of stopping power, what sort of caliber would one pick?

That depends on what you are trying to stop, and at what distance.

Para-Medic
July 31, 2012, 10:33 PM
That depends on what you are trying to stop, and at what distance.


Probably within 25 yards

JShirley
August 1, 2012, 08:34 AM
Any type of expanding round should work great defensively. FMJ will tend to make a clean little hole unless it hits bone.

You can buy Hornady TAP, but I advise just going to an outoor range with a bunch of water-filled milk jugs. Sight in, then put a flannel shirt in front of a row of jugs. IMO, ideal defensive penetration is 3-4 jugs. 5 is the most I'd want. 2 would be marginal.

Anyway, you just need maybe $20 worth of bottled water, or save your milk jugs for a while. Buy some inexpensive HP and SP, take a couple old shirts or beat-up BDU tops out, and just test it. Too easy.

John

06
August 1, 2012, 08:49 AM
We have taken deer with 39s and my daughter took a squirrel's head off with her "M" style SKS at 15 yrs old. Have several 39 shooters and they all are reliable. Just don't have time to play with them as I wish.

JShirley
August 1, 2012, 01:15 PM
In practical terms, any rifle round with expanding ammunition should quickly stop an attack, with good shot placement.

If target shooting and defense from coyotes and criminals is your goal,,even a 5.45x39mm might be a fine choice. Ammunition is cheap enough to buy an immense amount to maintain your shooting skill, and you can just buy a few boxes of TAP for "bump in the night" type moments.

gbeecher
August 1, 2012, 02:51 PM
I'm a firearms and military history fan, and if history is any guide, the 7mm to .30 caliber seems to be the ideal. Putting aside firepower, (M16 and AK47) the rifle cartridges that seem to offer the best compromise of size and power fall into this region. The 6mm to 6.5mm were found to be slightly underpowered (6mm Lee Navy, 6.5 Arisaka and Mannlicher-Carcano) and the 8mm (Mauser) was too large. The 7x57 Mauser was nearly ideal, along with the British .280 round. :)

coalman
August 2, 2012, 02:10 AM
IMO, just avoid the steel core stuff.
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1791/40052militaryassaultrif.jpg
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/RussianWP.jpg

jim243
August 2, 2012, 02:59 AM
And if one wanted a rifle in a practical caliber but still have a lot of stopping power, what sort of caliber would one pick?

50 Cal, no doubt about it, but you will pay over $5,000 for the rifle and over $5.00 per round. Next I would pick the 338 Mag much cheaper.


Jim

JShirley
August 2, 2012, 09:34 AM
As the preceding poster kindly pointed out, it depends on how you define "practical". I wouldn't believe a rifle I couldn't easily manuever, that fired ammunition designed to kill vehicles, as practical to use inside my home.

John

kcshooter
August 2, 2012, 09:44 AM
I have never seen such a total lack of basic marksmanship fundamentals since the last newsreels of a middle-east wedding celebration!!!!That, sir, is a signature line waiting to happen.

lemaymiami
August 2, 2012, 09:59 AM
Can't really comment on "stopping power" but will note that a wound from a 7.62x39 is going to require a doctor and probably an entire hospital.... Good guys get hit once and all too often don't survive, bad guys with multiple wounds survive all too often...

My take on that classic russian round is from a street life perspective..... It will go through both sides of a patrol car but will be stopped by the engine or steel wheels (but so will .223, or a 12ga. rifled slug). If encountered on the street you're going to be needing something hard to take cover behind. Fortunately most "street life" types are more into volume fire than accuracy. Still, if you're caught in a vehicle and come under fire from SKS, AK, or any carbine/rifle type fire with 7.62x39 ammo.... you have two choices -leave the area at high speed or take cover (and your car isn't very good cover...). My first choice is a high speed reverse to clear the kill zone....

My brother, who lives a full bore subsistence life style in Alaska, says that the russian round works just fine for short to medium distances (under 200 yards).... Of course his preferred long guns are all 375 H&H ( he has three of them...).

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