Any nation use 9X18 as primary?


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Dr_2_B
August 1, 2012, 03:06 PM
Some of you guys who keep up with this sort of thing... I guess I'm talking about a police force or pseudo-police force still issuing a Makarov or some other 9X18 as its primary arm. The subject is made murky because some of them are more likely to carry long-guns whereas our law enforcement folks don't generally.

Just curious.

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Nushif
August 1, 2012, 03:16 PM
I wanna say Italy, simply because they did for so long, but I am entirely unsure as well.

Mike OTDP
August 1, 2012, 03:28 PM
I think you'll find the Russians are issuing Makarovs to their police.

tuj
August 1, 2012, 04:37 PM
As of 2003, the Russians were still using it.

Fishbed77
August 1, 2012, 10:49 PM
I wanna say Italy, simply because they did for so long, but I am entirely unsure as well.

Italy has never used 9x18 as a service round.

Nushif
August 1, 2012, 11:14 PM
Italy has never used 9x18 as a service round.

They used what *we* call .380 Auto and what they call 9mm Corto or 9mm Kurz (no T in German). Which is a cartridge of the same diameter as the 9x19 (9mm Luger or Parabellum) ... but 1mm shorter.

No, they never used a "9mm Makarov." But I guess this is kinda going into semantics, no?

So to answer the OPs question .... which 9x19 cartridge *are* you inquiring about?

RON in PA
August 2, 2012, 04:13 AM
9mm Corto, .380 = 9X17mm, not 9x18.

Auto426
August 2, 2012, 05:45 AM
I believe Russia has officially switch to 9mm for their sidearms, though they still have quite a few Makarovs in use. The Soviets were exactly bashful about supplying friendly nations and communistic factions with weapons, so I'm sure you can still find plenty of 9mm Mak pistols and subguns in use out there in many non-NATO countries.

Ash
August 2, 2012, 07:31 AM
As pointed out, Italy used the .380, which is 9x17.

Does China still use the Mak round? I imagine North Korea does, as well as probably Myanmar, Vietnam, Belarus, a few African nations that were supported by the Soviets and are too poor to have changed, plus the ex-Soviet republics in Asia like Turkmenistan.

cerberus65
August 2, 2012, 07:42 AM
I would be very surprised if Italy ever issued 9x18.

One relative (Guardia di Finanza) carries 9x17. Another (Polizia Municipale) has carried 7,65 (.32 Auto) and now carries 9x21.

Nushif
August 2, 2012, 10:58 AM
.380 = 9X17mm

I just rechecked my little stash ... and my caliper thingies made of brass are seriously off, then. That might explain my lack of success with the OAL on my .45 Auto, no? O.o

dusty14u
August 2, 2012, 11:12 AM
This states that the Hungarian Police still use the FEG PA63 in 9mm Mak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEG_PA-63

Fastcast
August 2, 2012, 11:50 AM
9mm Corto, .380 = 9X17mm, not 9x18.

Yep..."corto" to mean cut/short.

.380/9x17....355 diam.

9Mak/9x18....365 diam.

9mm/9x19...355 diam.

Never heard of Italy using 9x18 and I wouldn't call it semantics seeing as 9x18 won't chamber in my 9mm Corto Beretta. ;)

Mr. D
August 2, 2012, 12:03 PM
I never realized .380 and 9mm were the same diameter. Does this mean it would be safe to fire .380 in a 9mm handgun? Not that there would be a practical reason to do so, normally, since 9mm is as cheap as handgun ammo gets.

~D

hentown
August 2, 2012, 12:27 PM
Are Russian Makarovs made in China? :cool:

thralldad
August 2, 2012, 02:23 PM
Poland uses PA-63s too.

ATLDave
August 2, 2012, 02:27 PM
I never realized .380 and 9mm were the same diameter. Does this mean it would be safe to fire .380 in a 9mm handgun? Not that there would be a practical reason to do so, normally, since 9mm is as cheap as handgun ammo gets.

You'd have to headspace off the rim with the extractor, which is generally not good for the gun, and worse for accuracy.

Zundfolge
August 2, 2012, 04:29 PM
Italy has never used 9x18 as a service round.

I suspect that is true, but the confusion may be because Mauser HSC80s chambered in 9x18 Ultra (aka 9x18 Walther PP Super) were made in Italy by Renato Gamba. That and Fioccoi (Italian again) is the only company I know of that still sells factory loaded 9x18 Ultra.

As far as I know, German Air Force and some German Police were issued Walther PP Supers in 9x18 Ultra in the early 70s. Note that 9x18 Ultra is NOT the same thing as 9x18 Makarov.

Wikipedia (so caveat emptor) lists the countries that issued the Pistolet Makarova (but not other 9x18mak pistols) here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarov_pistol) Here's the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x18mm_Makarov) in the 9x18mak round.

Dr_2_B
August 2, 2012, 11:17 PM
German Police were issued Walther PP Supers in 9x18 Ultra

Zund, that is news to me... I'd not heard of that before your post. Interesting gun.

wojownik
August 3, 2012, 01:11 AM
I think Ukraine is still relying on the 9x18 round, but with their Fort-12 pistol, as well as the Makarov PM.

Makarov PM pistols are still fielded in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and several other former Soviet republics. Cuba and North Korea also use variants of the Makarov PM.

Poland has generally been moving towards the 9x19 round, though P83 Wanad pistols in 9x18 are still in some use.

PabloJ
August 3, 2012, 03:07 AM
Poland uses PA-63s too.
Polish military uses Wist 94 but military police have Glocks and some commando units the USP. The P-83 is still issue with some troops. Polish police use P99 while border guards either P99 or Glock.

North Bender
August 3, 2012, 10:50 AM
The Czech liason officer to our Brigade in Afghanistan carried a CZ-82 in 2009.

nelson133
August 3, 2012, 10:58 AM
The Makarov is the police sidearm in China. There was a video out a while back of a Chinese female officer killing a hostage taker with her Makarov.

Okiegunner
August 4, 2012, 06:43 PM
In 2011 the Russian military switched completely (this was supposed to take place as early as 2003) to the 9mm.

The pistol is the Yarygin "Grach". all steel construction, 17 + 1. Pretty good looking pistol. Looks to be very solidly built from the photos I have seen.

nathan
August 4, 2012, 08:26 PM
Makarov can deliver that kill shot in the right hands.

http://multimedia.asiaone.com/Multimedia/News/Story/A1Multimedia20100710-10460.html

WardenWolf
August 4, 2012, 09:23 PM
China still issues Tokarev pistols to their military, at least to some extent. I'm not sure if they use the Makarov outside of police use.

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