Concealment options for women

Hello all,
I'm new here. Not really new to guns, but new to getting serious about concealed carry.

About me:
I have two main guns, a Sig P229 and an oddball Makarov .380 that my dad left to me. The Sig is by FAR my favorite gun and the best shooting gun I have fired to date, but it's definitely a little bulky. So the .380 has become my daily carry gun.
I've been putting it in my purse even though it is not a "concealed carry purse" because it has a separate compartment. But, I've never liked purse carry. It works with all clothing, but it has always made me nervous. So it's sort of a last resort.
I just bought an inexpensive, ambidextrous, IWB holster. SOB is most comfortable but if I bend over or reach up, all but the longest of my shirts will pull up and show. I've tried it in the front of my pants, but it makes me look like I have a, um, package.

I'd like to carry the Sig more but unfortunately it's just a little more difficult.

Some other things I'm mulling:

- Thunderwear: Does anyone have first-hand experience with this? The idea seems sound, but I'm not sure what it would be like to wear all day.

- The tank top that has a holster built in

- Ankle: I wear boot-cut pants most of the time so this could work but I think the Sig would be too large

- Shoulder: I have never worn a shoulder. Are these practical for daily use? Comfortable?

I work as an electrical drafter (brand new job, I start on 8.10) and it will involve site visits to locate existing receptacles and test circuits. Thus, bending, reaching, kneeling, etc. AND, I'm required to dress "professionally," which means generally business casual. Nice pants, button up shirt. Not too difficult really. But not the same as jeans & boots, my preferred weekend attire. And not to get TOO personal, but I have a little bit of a tummy: Not huge, but it does interfere with belt carry just a bit. I'm working on that though.

So far the IWB seems the best option. I was hoping to hear from some other women on here about what works for them.

If you haven't already, give The Cornered Cat a perusal. Kathy even has a section on carrying:

http://www.corneredcat.com/Contents/

I've read quite a few articles on that site as well as www.thewellarmedwoman.com.

There's still just so many options. I was hoping for some first-hand experiences, or maybe from the wives of some of the members?

Concealment/ holster/ women's dress issues:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=668686
There's a LOT of good stuff in that thread, and quite recent.

Worrying about the Sig safety: don't. It was designed to be carried safely with one in the chamber; it has an automatic internal firing pin block. You'll have to do more than 'snag' the trigger... you'd actually have to PULL it, double-action, to make it go off.

Locking it up when you have to: Most cars and trucks have a locking glove box. It'll be out of sight, an require burglary tools to get to. Assuming you have a car alarm?

Welcome to THR... lots of crusty old men, mostly, but a few of us know a thing or two... just not much about the fit of womens' clothes. :uhoh:

Thanks, I'll check that thread.

I used to carry with one chambered but my old hip holster had a thumb strap. You're right tho. I've had basic gun safety drilled into my head since I was a kid, and I have never had an ooops yet so no real reason to think I might I guess.

Car alarm? Lol. This is my newest truck yet and it's a95. First thing I've ever owned with ac. Someday I'd like power windows :D

Contrats on your decision to carry.

A Sig 229 is a very good carry gun. It became so once I realized I needed a thin holster to compensate for its thick design. With a Comp-TAC IWB Kydex holster, it concealed very well.

I gave that Sig to my daughter once she became old enough. With her in mind, I recently came across this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4izM0fiz6kk&feature=related

The woman in the video found that Remora holsters allowed her to carry while wearing the kinds of fashions many women desire. I really liked how those holsters take away a barrier to female carry that men don't often face.

Going to pick up one to test. They're around $25.

I looked at those comp-tac holsters. I like that you can adjust the cant on them.

The Remora seems odd. I just have a hard time believing that it would really stay in place without a clip???? I guess they are inexpensive enough to be worth trying out. Report back if you get one plz :)

On another note I held a Sig P238 today and I LOVED it! I need to shoot one at the range if they have a rental but I liked the way it felt in my hand. And I'm a little brand biased too.
Also, there's a good deal locally on a LCP with a bunch of holsters and accessories. Half what the Sig costs by itself. So that is tempting. I would have to rent one of those at the range too.

The Makarov isn't really THAT much smaller than the Sig, so there are a lot better guns out there for concealing. It's just something my dad left to me, and it shoots OK, so might as well use what I have right?

I'm a nerd, so I'm not too familiar with the woman's body, but I don't really see how anything that works for a man in professional business attire wouldn't work for a woman who is similarly dressed. A smaller gun could work in the pocket, but I can understand that pocket real estate is limited if you're not wearing cargos.

I like the tuckable options out there. Lets you tuck in a shirt and it works fairly well. If you wear one size up it wont even print, and the only evidence is a small clip on your belt that most people won't even notice - especially if it is the same color as your belt or belt loops.

Here is what I have found so far:
No pair of women's pants I have ever tried on has pockets deep enough for even a subcompact, and most of them not even that. I can't even get my hand into most of my dress pants pockets. Plus, since we already have more curved hips, something that sits on the hip will stick out even more, meaning small of the back or directly in front the best options for concealment. Our pants sit lower so there is not as much room at the waist either. Our shirts are tailored much more closely, and often aren't long enough to tuck in.
Part of it is personal style as well. I've tried on higher cut pants; I hated them. I have several shirts that are baggier; they visually add at least 10 lbs. There are some sacrifices I'm willing to make, but I still want to feel like my clothes fit well and flatter. I know that sounds silly but if I don't feel good when I look in the mirror, it affects my whole mood for the day.
There is still a lot of possibility because usually I wear khakis or trousers with button down shirts, so I do not wear tight low cut shirts. They just fit more closely than most men's clothes (unless you're a 22 year old hipster wearing your girlfriend's jeans).

Skribs, when I read that first line, I nearly shot coffee out my nose... and I haven't had coffee in about 8 hours. :neener: (We REALLY need a 'hilarious laughter' emoticon, here)

ETA: Firecracker, power windows are overrated... now that you've got AC, you won't roll them down as much. Also, kind of hard to add as an aftermarket. On the other hand, if there IS a legitimate need for you to leave your gun loaded and locked in the vehicle, adding an alarm (even a cheap one) and then a locking box is probably as important as a good holster. It reduces the risk of theft, and if somehow it IS stolen from your vehicle, nobody can say it was your negligence, since it was locked, alarmed, and locked again.

BTW I married a nerd. He is so smart and so cute and puts up with my ****.

No pair of women's pants I have ever tried on has pockets deep enough for even a subcompact, and most of them not even that. I can't even get my hand into most of my dress pants pockets. Plus, since we already have more curved hips, something that sits on the hip will stick out even more, meaning small of the back or directly in front the best options for concealment. Our pants sit lower so there is not as much room at the waist either. Our shirts are tailored much more closely, and often aren't long enough to tuck in.

My comment was semi-tongue-in-cheek but those are very good points for why there's a difference, thank you for explaining. Have you considered a bra holster? It sounds from what you're saying that IWB might be a bit awkward what with the fit and all.

On the other hand, I was looking for reviews on the Remora holster (I ordered one for pocket carry) and there was a good video on youtube of a girl talking about different ways she carries it. Its one of those that stays IWB by pressure from your waistband...personally I don't trust the design for IWB carry, but she says it pretty much stays. While I don't wear skirts, most of the other attire she discussed at least somewhat relevant to me (she carries it in pants, skirts, loungewear, a bikini, etc). Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4izM0fiz6kk

I've seen the bra ones. They look TERRIBLY uncomfortable and right now I do not own a gun small enough to put in one. But, people seem to like them, so maybe they could be worth a try whenever I buy another gun.

The Remora does look interesting. Weird, but if it functions as well as advertised it could be pretty cool.

I've seen mixed reviews on it. Some people got it and say it works great, stays in place, and they love it. Others have reported chafing, so they make sure their undergarments are between the gun and their skin. Still others have said it does not have good retention on the weapon and/or that it does not stay in place. My recommendation, if you choose to try it, is to wear it around with an empty chamber for a few days to make sure it will stay in place.

Their competitor (who's factory is in the same town, IIRC) is Sticky Holsters, so you may want to look at them.

Faliaphootography has an excellent channel on youtube.

This video is for carry options for the ladies:

http://youtu.be/ogGBPVk5GQk

Firecracker, I just got my Remora in. I'm mainly choosing pocket, but just to try it out I did IWB for a few hours. It stayed in the exact spot I left it - the IWB kydex holsters I have that clip to the belt tend to slide forward or back if I'm laying down on the couch, but this stayed put. It's also more comfortable because you can kind of put it where you want it, higher/lower/etc, and because it has less bulk than a holster that requires it to clip on somewhere.

wow so it really did stay put? hmmm

Depending on body type, appendix carry works very well for maximum concealment.

I've tried that, and it seemed to work pretty well for an average day. I went on a long motorcycle ride up to the shooting range and back today and carried IWB in the small of my back, and that worked pretty well for riding.

I finally got to fire a P238, and that's on my list now. I also fired a S&W 500 mag and that was cool too! not sure I want one though. I tried some other subcompacts and only the Sig really stood out. But I'm probably biased.

I think my next holster will be one of those tank tops, and then maybe a Comp-Tac IWB for the 229.

So many options! One more way to accessorize every morning I guess!

The sig P238 is by far the best shooting .380 pocket gun on the market. Very easy to shoot well.

Somebody was telling me it misfires a lot but I haven't heard that anywhere else.

Holsters will run a close second only to your shoe collection.

Trust me. Between K and I (21 years together) we have an entire dresser drawer full of holsters. I carry every day. She, less often only because of her employment location. The diversity builds up to maintain the best options for concealed carry in every season and social environment with the highest power factor possible.

Plan your wardrobe ahead, anticipating the weapon carry as much as possible. A shiny weapon is all but impossible to conceal IMO. Plan for day ahead and physically rehearse in front of as many full-length mirrors as possible. If your phone can record in HD, get used to taping yourself to try and see if you can detect the tell-tale printing of the carry mode.

Carry defensive layers - I really recommend the Kershaw Blur as an EDC (every day carry) folding blade, kept opposite the weapon hand. A touch up with a Dremel can minimize fabric snags b the tabs on the blade.

Body-conscious professional clothing means you'll have to focus on the slimmest firearms to manage carry mode holster bulk; the slim Walther, the M&P single-stacks, the compact Kahrs, and so on. When casual is authorized, don't get sloppy...

Shoulder holsters? That can depend on so much! The cut and weight of the cover garment, the lining, the color and weight of the under layer, the weapon retention format: muzzle up, horizontal, muzzle down, and then is the rig a pull-through or pull up, etc. How good are your retention skills? Against one? Against two?

An ankle rig is manageable with Dutch - or wide-leg cut pants, or the large flair but the real challenge is walking without a noticeable change in your gait. Swimmer's crunches with a couple pounds of weight on each ankle can help build up symmetry but you may find you fatigue quickly walking any distance with one leg heavier than the other.

The obvious solution is a variation of the New York reload - carry a pair, one on each leg. I kid you not: your derriere is the object of focus even if you look like Roseanne Barr after a month long bender in a fast food joint.

(sigh)

Public bathrooms are always a potential challenge. Plan for the worst case (10 women walk in to a 2 stall bathroom one minute after you sit in a vacant bathroom). I've developed a hacking, wet cough spontaneously when exiting - it's like parting the Red Sea.

There's a ton of great info out there - but you'll have to accept you'll make mistakes. The trick is to defusing the social horror reactions, not being noticed as you widen your passage around corners both inside and outside (avoid clipping our weapon!), and so on.

Good luck!

Ooh thanks, good info! I did buy some new Dickies brand work khakis that sit higher on the waist.
not as flattering but what do you do? They have wider belt loops and a straighter fit that works better for concealment. That with a looser fitting button up should work for what I do. (drafting)

I do usually carry a knife for utility but have no experience in using it for defense.

How do you defuse social situations? I've always wondered what to say without sounding angry or combative in the face of criticism.

I think I am leaning toward iwb at appendix for most days. Seems to be most versatile and hides under mt tummy.

BTW, I'm built like the proverbial Russian beet farmer's spinster aunt. Probably because there's some ethnic link close by...

K's a size 18 with a 36" inseam.

:rolleyes:;)

How?

Can you laugh at yourself in acutely embarrassing situations?

How are you at maintaining your temper when someone starts screaming hysterically -pointing at you? The psychotic hoplophobic housewife is common. One ill-fated clunk or reveal is all it takes to ruin a day.

Hm, maybe not much close-in unarmed physical defensive sills? See if there's a dojo that can set you up with real survival skills (even just a couple nights a week with other women can build up to something decent as a worst-case response over a few years) - check with other women who train there first! Occasionally instructors will do some individual training with rubber gun/knife situations after class.

I don't think I'd have lived this long if I couldn't laugh at myself, as I'm not the most graceful or socially adept person :D

No temper problem out of the ordinary. Not now that I'm medicated anyway :O
(I kid, I kid)

I took Kenpo for several years when much younger, but we didn't do knife work until a higher level than I made it. Sticks were the only weapons I spent much time with. I would love to get back into it after I graduate!

I am ... square-ish I guess. Not an hourglass. Extra weight is all tummy not curves. Not complaining, just describing.

36" inseam??? That's a long legged lady!

Ankle seems more trouble than it's worth. I have heard before that it makes you walk differently.

Any of it will need lots of practice! Unless you take a class, most ranges do not let you practice drawing and firing. :(

Consider this. (http://www.beamhit.com/)

Snap caps with a way to determine your dry-fire trigger control can be a constructive element in personal training.

Having had some training you already know the axiom: You fight only as well as you train. It doesn't come easy or cheaply but the reward endures.

For personal use. (http://headshottargets.com/pgroup_descrip/1/18/?return=%3f)

My Wife seems to be leaning towards a similar shoulder rig to mine.

She doesn't wear belts very often, bag carry leaves the gun off your person, but as she's one of those "perpetually cold" people, she always has a thin overshirt/coat on.

She's one of those unfortunates with extreme cleavage (back pain and Bras requiring NASA Engineering), and the rigs ride perfectly underneath the lower curves.

http://www.tedblockerholsters.com/product.cfm?pi=5D3B2396-F67A-A817-8DA84170266295A0 This is the likely candidate for her. I carry a .45colt Ruger Blackhawk in their Vertical lifeline.

The draw may be a bit slower from a shoulder rig, but it's a lot faster than leaving your gun at home because it's uncomfortable.

Good luck!

I'm 5'2", and, uh, have a healthy build.
In summer, I carry 90% of the time with an IWB holster. A Glock 26 or S&W CS9 hides under a polo or Tshirt.
People are not as observant as you'd think. I was open carrying one day, (legal in MN), was just out in my yard. I had a 15 min conversation with a St. Paul cop, he never said a thing. I've honestly never had anyone notice and say anything, in quite a few years of carrying.
In winter when I'm wearing more clothing, I'll sometimes wear a Glock 19 OWB. More comfy, but not as easy to conceal.
This is my current favorite holster for my Glock 26.
http://theisholsters.com/holsters.php

Trisha, those look pretty cool.
I have heard about snap caps and I definitely want to try that.

The shoulder rig looks cool ... I am usually too HOT though, so that would definitely be a winter option. Are they comfortable to wear?

I have heard good things about Theis holsters. It looks pretty big though. Is it bulky for IWB?

I wore the .380 in my current IWB holster all day on Friday to work and driving and errands, and the hammer poked into my belly :( I tried opposite side in front and that put my grip even more in the way of my stomach. Appendix worked better but was still uncomfortable when sitting.

I will keep trying things. There are several holsters on my wish list.

Very comfortable over road trips, casual/social you have to watch the hugs from small children running straight at you like a freight train though.

Also don't walk around with the snap undone... I've only done that once, nearly had the Blackhawk spill out the top of my shirt when I bent over. Thankfully caught it under the fabric and manipulated it back into it's holster as quietly, and casually as possible. (Awkward!)

Over 90 tomorrow here, I'll be using the IWB and my M&P instead of roasting. But it's good to have multiple carry options.

The Theis is actually very comfortable IWB, because that big flap of leather keeps all the pokey corners of the gun away from you.
I can't carry appendix, or anywhere from 9-3 oclock, as my belly is occupying that position.:rolleyes:
On my strong side, just about 3:30-4oclock, it's comfortable, easy to draw, and as I mentioned, conceals very well.
If you want a holster that's even thinner, look at these from FIST.
http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/holster/1A.htm
This holster in kydex is incredibly thin, and with the clip it's easy on and off.

Yes I have a bit of a belly too :( but at 4-6 o' clock I think it is too easy for my shirt to pull up when I bend over?

Well, I guess you won't know unless you try it. I wear regular polo shirts a lot, not real snug, and concealment isn't a problem.
With any kind of shirt, if it's snug, it's going to print. I've gotten used to wearing shirts a tad loose, blousy my mother used to say, to provide better concealment.
Like I said before, though, really people aren't that observant. I've had friends who know I carry, after a day together, say, "Why did you decide not to carry your little gun today".
Then I lift up my shirt and show them...:eek:

Don't bend from the waist - it promotes poor lifting technique!

Use your legs, and kneel. You'll improve core strength, balance and eliminate the ogling gaggle of testosterone-poisoned.

Not lifting--measuring and testing electrical receptacles.

Honestly, I haven't found alot of special holsters for women out on the market. I tried the Remora and I tried a couple of the bra holsters, but they just don't work. The Remora never felt secure, and the bra holsters looked ridiculous because I don't have anough bust to make them a success.

So.... I've settled for using man-type waist holsters on a belt, appendix carry, or sometimes I simply have to make my own stuff. Alot of days I like to wear a jacket (even in summer) so small-of-back carry is a pretty good one for me. It also helps that I wear a skirt already, but for days that call for a skirt I have a rig that I made that reinforces the waist line of the skirt, has a strap that drops down to mid-thigh, and then a holster that is attached at that point. As long as the pistol is thin and the skirt extends to the knee or below it's a great system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNL5pqn3Eng

This vid shows something similar to what I made.

Custom holsters and carry equipment are pretty easy to make, especially if you already have some sewing skills. Plus, you have the advantage of tailoring it to fit a specific outfit or material or curve of your body. Also, if you make both custom clothing and custom carry equipment, it makes the outfit that much more forgiving. Nothing like a jacket with a sewn-in holster or a pair of pants that actually have room for pockets! (Why do they never expect women to use pockets????:cuss:)

I wondered about the Remora but for $25 or whatever it is I still may try it.
I saw those magnetic ones that are supposed to work for when you can't wear a belt. Have you or anyone else here tried one?
I do sew actually and I have made a lot of shirts and pants and dresses but I have not really explored how to tailor them to fit a gun.