What is the limiting factor of 30-30?


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gunnutery
August 2, 2012, 03:46 PM
Over the last few years, I keep seeing comparisons of 7.62x39 to 30-30 in terms of power and range. I don't have a vast knowledge of ballistic science so I'm not disputing the comparison, but I've just been curious.

Since 30-30 more closely resembles a big cartidge, why is it limited to (roughly) 200-300 yards?

Is it:
a) round nose bullet design
b) type of powder
c) amount of powder
d) all of the above
e) other?

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glockky
August 2, 2012, 03:49 PM
I think the round nose bullet which hornday has came up with a solution for, and powder capacity which hornday has takent he biggest advantage of with there lever revolution powder.

rcmodel
August 2, 2012, 04:31 PM
1. The 30-30 is an intermediate class cartridge.
Pressure and velocity is limited by how much pressure the rifles designed for it in 1895 can safely handle. People are still shooting some of them.
They safely handle 42,000 PSI.
More powerful cartridges often go as high as 65,000.

2. 30-30 ammo has typically always been loaded with flat-point bullets for safe use in tubular magazine lever actions. They slow down and drop rather quickly.
They do not have the flatter trajectory of a similar spitzer bullet.

3. Lever-actions have traditionally been sold with open sights.
You can't hit with it any further then you can see it well enough to hit it.

rc

Abel
August 2, 2012, 07:15 PM
Operating within the parameters of 150 yards is not a limitation to most skilled hunters.

Carl N. Brown
August 2, 2012, 07:35 PM
Since 30-30 more closely resembles a big cartidge,...

The comparison to .30-30 is usually invoked when asked "What can I hunt with a 7.62x39?" The 7.62x39 is not really a big cartridge compared to .30-30. But both are relatively useful for short range 50 to 150 yd deer hunting.

7.62x39mm bullet: 123 gr FMJ, velocity 2400 fps., energy 1529 ft/lbs.
7.62x39mm bullet: 154 gr SP, velocity 2100 fps., energy 1515 ft/lbs.
.30-30 (7.62x51R) bullet 150 gr SP, velocity 2390 fps, energy 1903 ft/lbs.
.30-30 (7.62x51R) bullet 170 gr SP, velocity 2220 fps, energy 1860 ft/lbs.

Due to tube magazine limitations, .30-30 is usually loaded with round or flat nosed bullets that have more wind resistance that the pointed bullets used in the 7.62x39. So ,30-30 loses its initial advantage at longer ranges, but most woods hunting is under 100 yds. Softpoint .30-30 ammo is more likely to be found in a backwoods store that softpoint 7.62x39.

sage5907
August 2, 2012, 07:40 PM
Most if not all of the carbines have 20 inch barrels which limits the velocity. If the cartridge was being fired out of a 24 inch barrel with handloaded 150 grain spitzer bullets the velocity could be up over 2300 fps which is nothing to look down upon. The 30-30 was always looked upon as a leg breaker for deer hunting because inexperience hunters were alway shooting at deer at long range with iron sights. I saw a deer shot with a 30-30 many years ago at about 100 yards and the 170 grain flat point bullet penetrated the backstrap and stuck in the backbone. We found the bullet when dressing the deer. Thousands of deer have been killed with a 30-30 and they are still in use. BW

Texan Scott
August 2, 2012, 07:53 PM
e) YOU. All other considerations could be addressed to improve the rifle/ cartridge combo ballistically, but even as it is, it will shoot straighter than you can hold, at ranges longer than you can aim. Practice until you become that 1% of all humans on earth that can outshoot a modern factory rifle, then teach lessons and write a book. I'll be in line to take them, and buy a copy.

jmr40
August 2, 2012, 08:06 PM
Despite it's popularity in the USA the 30-30 was obslolete 3 years before the first box of ammo or rifle was ever sold in 1895. The 30-30 was conceived with mid 19th century science and technology. It was originally designed as a blackpowder round and was sold as such at first. It was converted to smokeless powder and at one time both versions could be bought. Both the round and most rifles made for it are limited because of the blackpowder design limitations.

The 30-30 works when used within its design limitations, too many dead animals to argue that point. But more modern, better chamberings were available earlier. The 7X57 loaded with smokeless powder predates the 30-30 by 3 years and has been used to take every animal on the planet including dozens of elephant. It has at least double the effective range. While everyone else in the world moved to more modern 20th century chamberings the 30-30 remained popular only here in the USA.

I own several 30-30's and like to use them, but from a performance perspective, they are at disadvantage for many reasons. Most already discussed.

R.W.Dale
August 2, 2012, 08:55 PM
Another factor is that 30-30 real world ballistics tend to fall dramatically short of ammunition makers claims. Primarily because they insist on using a mythological 24" 30-30 barrel.

This graphic shows this. Any comparisons made assuming published velocities are AUTOMATICALLY wrong

I have fired factory 170 grain Remington ammunition from a 20" savage that didn't even crack 1800fps over my Chronograph

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/FIRE/table30-30.jpg

Low pressure and inefficient bullets are also limiting factors

T.R.
August 2, 2012, 09:30 PM
30-30 cartridge is typicaly linked to lever action rifles. This is an action which is easily mastered with a bit of practise. Accurate shooting is nearly as fast as a semi-automatic rifle in 30-06. Accurate shooting has been accomplished well beyond 250 yards, but for hunting big game, I keep my shots within 150 yards or so. This is because I favor traditional flat nosed ammo. I guess this means I am the limiting factor.

TR

meanmrmustard
August 2, 2012, 09:32 PM
Been killing deer with it for many years. It is what it is.

Walkalong
August 2, 2012, 10:05 PM
The .30-30 is far from obsolete. There are plenty of bigger, "better" (Certainly more powerful) calibers, but the .30-30 is a very successful round as far as guns sold and game taken, and will continue to be so.

Vern Humphrey
August 2, 2012, 10:05 PM
Over the last few years, I keep seeing comparisons of 7.62x39 to 30-30 in terms of power and range. I don't have a vast knowledge of ballistic science so I'm not disputing the comparison, but I've just been curious.

Since 30-30 more closely resembles a big cartidge, why is it limited to (roughly) 200-300 yards?

Is it:
a) round nose bullet design
b) type of powder
c) amount of powder
d) all of the above
e) other?

The .30-30 is compared to the 7.62X39 because:

a. They are roughly the same caliber (the Russian 7.62 is close to .311 diameter, while the US .30 is .308)

b. They generate roughly the same kinetic energy level -- when using light bullets.

c. Both cartridges are avaliable in short, light (SKS and Wincherster M94/Marlin 336) rifles.

d. The rifles they are chambered in traditionally have cost less than bolt action rifles for higher power cartridges.

snake284
August 2, 2012, 10:21 PM
Over the last few years, I keep seeing comparisons of 7.62x39 to 30-30 in terms of power and range. I don't have a vast knowledge of ballistic science so I'm not disputing the comparison, but I've just been curious.

Since 30-30 more closely resembles a big cartidge, why is it limited to (roughly) 200-300 yards?

Is it:
a) round nose bullet design
b) type of powder
c) amount of powder
d) all of the above
e) other?

One of the main limitations would be under "Other." The case is relatively thin so you can't load it up hot. However, with Leverrevolution ammo, your down range velocity is much improved. I personally think a good scoped 30-30 with spitzer bullets is now a 250 or even 300 yard gun. Also, the 7.62x39 ammo is generally 125-130 grain. So the 30-30 with 150, 160, or 170 grain bullets, in my opinion is a better deer or medium game rifle.

rcmodel
August 2, 2012, 11:31 PM
The case is relatively thin so you can't load it up hot.You could load it pretty hot in a Ruger #1 single-shot.

You just can't load it hot in a lever-action, which is mostly all it is chambered in.

rc

meanmrmustard
August 2, 2012, 11:36 PM
You could load it pretty hot in a Ruger #1 single-shot.

You just can't load it hot in a lever-action, which is mostly all it is chambered in.

rc
Wonder how it'd fare hot loaded out of a Savage bolt action.

rcmodel
August 2, 2012, 11:39 PM
If the case is fully contained inside the chamber, it is a non-issue.

If you have an extractor cut or some such nonsense exposing the thinner case web, it IS an issue.

rc

R.W.Dale
August 2, 2012, 11:46 PM
Wonder how it'd fare hot loaded out of a Savage bolt action.

Worse than a leveraction thanks to the savages single locking lug and ramen noodle like rigidity.

Go beyond factory pressures and accuracy becomes nonexistent and case life is very brief.

I should know I've had two 30-30 sav340's and one rem 788

meanmrmustard
August 2, 2012, 11:48 PM
Worse than a leveraction thanks to the savages single locking lug and ramen noodle like rigidity.

Go beyond factory pressures and accuracy becomes nonexistent and case life is very brief.

I should know I've had two 30-30 sav340's and one rem 788
As do I, but never reloaded for it (340), but LE shoots well, so I just thought maybe it'd work out to reload. The LEs group quite well, next time I shoot it I'll post target pics.

X-Rap
August 2, 2012, 11:58 PM
I limit my rifles to 110gr hp's and load stout 130/135 gr spitzers and balistic tips for my Contender, the 30-30 shines pretty nicely in the single shot pistol. If all I had was a 94 I'd feel fine with some 165 gr cast with gas checks on anything I could sneek up on or ambush.

fanchisimo
August 3, 2012, 12:04 AM
Dale,
I read that Hornady's Leverevolution maintains a better fps out to farther ranges due to it's tip vs. the flat and rounded nose of other ammunition. I just purchased an older Marlin 336 and am trying to learn all I can. I am having trouble finding data as opposed to claims in my searching. Thanks for any info.

R.W.Dale
August 3, 2012, 12:05 AM
I limit my rifles to 110gr hp's and load stout 130/135 gr spitzers and balistic tips for my Contender, the 30-30 shines pretty nicely in the single shot pistol. If all I had was a 94 I'd feel fine with some 165 gr cast with gas checks on anything I could sneek up on or ambush.

Believe it or not its pretty slick in a revolver too!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/GROUPS/HPIM2407.jpg

X-Rap
August 3, 2012, 12:10 AM
Sierra used to make a 135 or 130 that was designed for pistol velocities that performed real well. I shot quite a few mule deer and an antelope with mine in the 30-30.
I wish they still made that bullet but I don't see it listed anymore.

gunnutery
August 3, 2012, 12:10 AM
Wow, thanks for all the input, you've all really schooled me on the 30-30. Perhaps my question is based on too much comparison and not enough accepting it for what it is. I'm fine with accepting what it is, but looking at say, a .308 which is about the same size and same bullet weight, but has much more power and range kind of threw me off (again, too much comparison).

Which brings me to another question. Where does the .308 Marlin chambering come in? I know even less about that cartridge other than it's rimmed. Does it bring advantages over the 30-30 chambering/ bullet design/ poweder/ etc?

rcmodel
August 3, 2012, 12:25 AM
The .308 Marlin Express is a proprietary cartridge, using proprietary powder, & proprietary flex-tip bullets, to almost duplicate .308 Winchester performance in a lever-action Marlin rifle.

I might be wrong, but I think they have only sold 17 of them! :D

And you won't find any ammo at the gas station in Elk Droppings Montana if you go hunting there.

rc

Tommygunn
August 3, 2012, 12:27 AM
Despite it's popularity in the USA the 30-30 was obslolete 3 years before the first box of ammo or rifle was ever sold in 1895. The 30-30 was conceived with mid 19th century science and technology. It was originally designed as a blackpowder round and was sold as such at first. It was converted to smokeless powder and at one time both versions could be bought. Both the round and most rifles made for it are limited because of the blackpowder design limitations.

The .30-30 was never a blackpowder round. The 1894 was chambered in some blackpowder rounds when it first came out because Winchester needed to prepare its nickel steel barrels. The .30-30 came out in 1895 and was always loaded with modern propellants.
Given the ubiquity of blackpowder at the time some reloaders might have reloaded the .30-30 with it but Winchester never made it that way from the factory.

murf
August 3, 2012, 12:32 AM
the 30-30 is the best low pressure cartridge for the lever action platform. all others (except for the 45-70) have fallen by the wayside.

the 30-30 will kill deer, elk, bear. the rifle will hold 5 rounds and weigh less than 7 pounds. why fix it if it's not broken?

murf

rcmodel
August 3, 2012, 12:35 AM
Typically holds 6 rounds in the mag + 1 in the chamber in a 94 Win or 336 Marlin 20" carbine.

rc

303tom
August 3, 2012, 12:54 AM
This is all I got to say about the lowly .30-30...............

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=668478

skidder
August 3, 2012, 01:28 AM
The 30-30 lever action is a bottleneck for the performance of the cartridge.

If you reload and have a Winchester model 54 carbine with a Williams peep site :cool:, well.... you have yourself a 30-30 Magnum. The Hornady .308 BTSPs don't care if it ain't a 30-06 .


http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc456/exlogger/Model%2054/right.jpg

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc456/exlogger/Model%2054/label.jpg

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc456/exlogger/Model%2054/caliber.jpg

sage5907
August 3, 2012, 11:46 AM
Skidder, thanks for showing us that rifle. I'm one of the people who think only bolt action rifles are interesting and that Model 54 is interesting. BW

Elm Creek Smith
August 3, 2012, 01:07 PM
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/1694822_w94cm_1l?hei=380&wid=380
NRA Centennial Rifle/Musket with 26 inch barrel. Saw mine while working over Christmas at Looboyle (long gone) in Tulsa. No one got the quality of presents I was intending that year except me. If you can find one that's been shot or don't care about shooting a post-64 "commemorative," performance is really remarkable.

ECS

Carl N. Brown
August 3, 2012, 01:34 PM
Most .30-30 rifles have barrels rifled to give accuracy within the 2100 - 2300 fps range; if the rate of twist isn't proper for higher velocity, hotrodding the .30-30 is a waste of powder. In fact, some folks want a slower rate of twist than the factory standard, to give better accuracy at 1200 - 1400 fps for small game or black powder reloads.

Vern Humphrey
August 3, 2012, 01:40 PM
A high rate of twist isn't a disadvantage when driving bullets faster than usual except when the combination of high twist rate and high velocity causes bullets to come apart in flight. That doesn't happen with the .30-30. All that happens at higher velocities is that you get proportionally greater spin rates, which doesn't hurt anything.

At the same time, I get good accuracy with a 160 grain cast bullet at around 1200 fps.

solvability
August 3, 2012, 01:47 PM
I have thought about having my chamber reamed to shoot the Ackley improved version and then think better of it - I am not going to scope the rifle and it shoots right through our little white tails and for sure will kill our feral hogs so why mess with it.

FYI - it is a pretty simple rechamber.

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w3030ack.html

CountryUgly
August 3, 2012, 01:52 PM
Believe it or not its pretty slick in a revolver too!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/GROUPS/HPIM2407.jpg
I've so been wanting the BFR in 30-30 but have held off because I've not found anyone to give me real world feedback on it. Would you please PM me with your opion/impression on this gun so we don;t hijack the thread.

wlewisiii
August 3, 2012, 01:53 PM
The only real limit I've found to .30-30 is the quality of the booger hook on the bang switch.

ECVMatt
August 3, 2012, 01:57 PM
I love the .30-30 and shoot it often. I don't see the point of hot rodding this round as the Browning BLR .308 is a nice levergun if you feel the need for a hotter round. I shoot mine out to about 150 yards and it hammers things.

The rifles are light, handy, and durable.

sage5907
August 3, 2012, 02:44 PM
Elm Creek Smith , I'm probably the only one reading thehighroad besides you that knows about Looboyle. What a great store it was before Bass Pro and Cabelas's. I came to Tulsa in 1969 and found myself at the store on Xanthius Place about every week. Later it was the store at Southroads Mall. Thanks for sharing the memory. BW

bubba15301
August 3, 2012, 09:41 PM
30/30 was never loaded with blackpowder always smokeless powder

Eb1
August 3, 2012, 09:46 PM
I'll take my 30-30 AI with Sierra 125 grain HPs over a 7.62x39 any day or night.

For that matter I'll take a 30-30 with 125 grain HPs over a 7.62x39.

mavracer
August 3, 2012, 09:59 PM
The only real limit I've found to .30-30 is the quality of the booger hook on the bang switch.
+1
Dad told me of a guide they used in Rifle Colorado who regularly killed deer and elk with a 30-30, this would have been in the 50s before they invented the up armored deer.

Eb1
August 3, 2012, 11:00 PM
I have a 1972 336 that has a trigger of glass. I have also polished up the 336W to be almost as good, but it doesn't have 1000s of rounds through it yet. :)

rcmodel
August 3, 2012, 11:01 PM
I don't think he was referring to the quality of the trigger pull.

I think he was referring to skill of the rifleman pulling it!

rc

Eb1
August 3, 2012, 11:30 PM
Doh! Eight Year Anniversary tonight for the wife and I, and she is sick, and I am chasing a 2 year old son playing Monster Trucks, while playing restaurant with the seven year old girl. LOL

That one flew right over my head.

Thanks, rc.

mac66
August 3, 2012, 11:31 PM
IMO, there is a big difference on deer between the 30-30 and the .30 russian short cartridge. A 150 gr vs 124 gr bullet makes a big difference.

My 1932 made Winchester 94 .30 WCF has taken a bunch of deer over the years. How many in the 65 years before I got it I can't imagine.

On the other hand, I have tried the Leverevolution ammo and is works well. The only thing is that all my shots have been 125 yards or shorter and it offers no advantantage at those ranges over the old round nose bullets.

When you think about it...it is a .30 caliber bullet out of lightweight carbine. It has stayed popular because it just plain works.

303tom
August 4, 2012, 12:54 AM
I love the .30 WCF................

MrDig
August 4, 2012, 01:48 AM
Despite it's popularity in the USA the 30-30 was obslolete 3 years before the first box of ammo or rifle was ever sold in 1895.

:scrutiny:

I have been sober and clean since August of 1988, and this statement makes me want whatever you are on. I apologize for my sarcasm but Seriously? Given it's continued popularity is testament to the fact that it is not obsolete. It is a workhorse round, Ranchers, Farmers and Joe lunch bucket hunters put this round to work and it does it's job regardless. The thing is they not only know the limits of the round they know their own limitations as well.
The round will probably still be doing what it was designed to do in another 120 years or so because it is that dependable.

Texan Scott
August 4, 2012, 01:55 AM
Thank you MrDig... i saw that earlier but lacked the tact to address it at the time, and knew it.
Personally, I've always liked the .30-30, as well as that other great rifle caliber, the .30 WCF.

R.W.Dale
August 4, 2012, 02:02 AM
In terms of performance 30-30 was obsolete 6 years before it was even introduced.

By 1890 we had both the 7x57 and the 7.65x53mm Mauser. Two cartridges that are every bit the equal to 308 and 7mm08

Just because it was popular doesn't mean that it wasn't obsolete. Just like lots of folks still like to have a wristwatch on their arm while they have a smartphone in their pocket.

Of course none of this detract from 30/30's knack for killing game at practical ranges with a minimum of fuss.

A 20" 30-30 will launch a 150 grain bullet 2300 fps on average

A 20" 7.62x39 will launch a 154 grain bullet 2150 fps

That's less difference than you get between 308 to 30/06 or in other words pretty much the same.

rcmodel
August 4, 2012, 02:09 AM
Name a one other cartridge introduced before 1900 that has sold more rifles chambered for it in the last 117 years and I'll eat them for breakfast in the morning.

Yea!
Thats obsolete before it ws introduced all right!

rc

Clark
August 4, 2012, 02:19 AM
"Speer 12" 1994:
"Some bolt-action and single-shot rifles have been chambered for this cartridge. Reloaders can sue spritzer-type bullets in these rifles, but should keep the weight to 150 grains or less. Heavier spritzer bullets cannot be drive fast enough in the 30-30 to expand reliably. We are occasionally asked if the 30-30 can be loaded to higher velocities in a modern bolt action like the Remington model 788. The answer is NO! The 30-30 case is an old design with relatively thin walls. Attempting to load "hotter" would risk a dangerous case failure."

I have cross sectioned a few brands of 30-30 brass, and they all look like they are good for 85kpsi.
Speer maybe did some Hunter Thompson Geronimo journalism?

I have a number of 30-30 rifles, and the Win 94 and Marlin 336 and Sav 840 bolt action don't look like they are not built to take much pressure at all. The 30-30 is SAAMI registered at 42,000 psi and 54.6 k to 58.8 kpsi proof loads.
No way am I shooting a 58.8 kpsi with one of those next to me.

The early and late Sav 219 and the Handi rifle look a lot better.
I have converted a Mosin Nagant to 30-30, and it looks strong.

Random Discharge
August 4, 2012, 09:36 AM
Easy on recoil, easy to shoot, handy rifle platform, plenty of power for deer out to 200 yards, perfectly reasonable (+/- 3 inches or so) trajectory out to 200 yards (the outer limits of my shooting skills anyway), low ammunition cost...

I'm not sure whether I just described 30-30 or 7.62x39, but I prefer the 30-30. 30-30 has a little bit more power and my Marlin 336 is a handy accurate platform for it. I'd take a 336 in 30-30 for a deer hunt over an AK or SKS in 7.62x39 any day.

I think the limiting factor of 30-30 is flexibility on the game pursued. Sure, 30-30's have been taken on elk hunts, but that doesn't make it a great idea. It doesn't take a 30-06 to kill a deer dead, but some prefer 30-06 for that application, or want their one rifle to be suitable for game larger than deer.

meanmrmustard
August 4, 2012, 09:42 AM
Name a one other cartridge introduced before 1900 that has sold more rifles chambered for it in the last 117 years and I'll eat them for breakfast in the morning.

Yea!
Thats obsolete before it ws introduced all right!

rc
Agreed. If a chambering as old as the 30-30 is now is still hitting the market, is readily available, and new rifles are still made based on the platform (well, new-old rifles) then I couldn't justify calling it phased out. It's a blatant fallacy.

fanchisimo
August 4, 2012, 10:22 AM
Not to get nerdy, but one of the definitions of obsolete is:

"no longer in general use; fallen into disuse"

Another:

"of a discarded or outmoded type"

So while it is not the round with the biggest bang or greatest fps, I could not call it obsolete. It will still kill any game it hits and has a proven track record.

303tom
August 4, 2012, 10:33 AM
Not to get nerdy, but one of the definitions of obsolete is:

"no longer in general use; fallen into disuse"

Another:

"of a discarded or outmoded type"

So while it is not the round with the biggest bang or greatest fps, I could not call it obsolete. It will still kill any game it hits and has a proven track record.
You go ahead & get nerdy & tell em, ain`t no way the .30-30 Winchester is obsolete & it still has plenty of potential............

gunnutery
August 4, 2012, 10:36 AM
It seems some people have different definitions of the word "obsolete." I tend to think that if something still has a use, even though out performed, it doesn't mean it's obsolete. I haven't looked up the dictionary though so perhaps I'm off.

SlamFire1
August 4, 2012, 01:36 PM
In terms of performance 30-30 was obsolete 6 years before it was even introduced.

By 1890 we had both the 7x57 and the 7.65x53mm Mauser. Two cartridges that are every bit the equal to 308 and 7mm08

Just because it was popular doesn't mean that it wasn't obsolete. Just like lots of folks still like to have a wristwatch on their arm while they have a smartphone in their pocket.

Of course none of this detract from 30/30's knack for killing game at practical ranges with a minimum of fuss.

A 20" 30-30 will launch a 150 grain bullet 2300 fps on average

A 20" 7.62x39 will launch a 154 grain bullet 2150 fps

That's less difference than you get between 308 to 30/06 or in other words pretty much the same.

I agree, in terms of performance the 30-30 was outclassed by these Mauser rounds.

So was the 30-40, which was adopted in 1894.

At the time, however, these European rounds seldom made it CONUS and when the Army "ran into" 7mm Mauser cartridges during the Spanish American War, for the survivors it caused a minor sensation at the time.

(To show how far back the disrespect towards the National Guard the Regular Army has, a Regular Army General was removed from command in the Philippians due to letters back home from the Territorial’s (National Guard). The Regular Army General had lots of Krags in reserve but would not issue them to the Territorials because the Regular Army does not consider the Reserves or National Guard as “real soldiers”, thus these guys were left using the single shot 45/70 Trapdoor against M1893 Mausers!.)

If you were to compare the 30-30 against the 30-40, the ballistics on the 30-40 are a bit better but it could not be fitted into compact legacy lever actions, the M1893’s or M1894’s, and the 30-30 was an improvement over black powder rounds of the era.

By the time you get to post WW1, the important writers of the period, Major Crossman and Townsend Whelen were comparing the 30-30 against their baby, the 30-06, and they were very disrespectful of the 30-30. Elmer Keith, a very influential writer, thought the 30-06 was too small, so you can imagine what he thought of the 30-30.

It is funny that over a century later the 30-30 is right within the power range of military intermediate assault cartridges.

Try buying 30-40 brass. It is seasonal, but 30-30, loaded ammunition is over the counter at Walmart.

Still, more than any other reason, it has survived because of the excellent and affordable lever actions it has been chambered in. And the fact that if the cartridge is used within the limitations of its trajectory it will get the job done.

hang fire
August 4, 2012, 01:49 PM
Wonder how it'd fare hot loaded out of a Savage bolt action.
With only one locking lug on the Stevens M325 and Savage M340, hot rodding either is asking for disaster as action is no stronger than on a M94 Win lever gun.

meanmrmustard
August 4, 2012, 01:53 PM
With only one locking lug on the Stevens M325 and Savage M340, hot rodding either is asking for disaster as action is no stronger than on a M94 Win lever gun.
Guess I'll be sticking to Hornady LEs then which is cool, they work out quite well.

hang fire
August 4, 2012, 01:55 PM
There is one reason I really like the .30-30 cartridge, with itís long neck, it is a near perfect cast boolit round. Great accuracy can be had with cast boolit velocities near factory jacketed ammo without loss of accuracy.

HOOfan_1
August 4, 2012, 02:03 PM
Worse than a leveraction thanks to the savages single locking lug and ramen noodle like rigidity.

Go beyond factory pressures and accuracy becomes nonexistent and case life is very brief.

I should know I've had two 30-30 sav340's and one rem 788

Have a Savge 340 in .30-30. Don't go beyond the hottest loads in loading manuals, but do load them close to the hottest...also use 150 Gr. Hornady Interlock spire point bullets in it. It groups well enough for hunting...maybe 2 - 2.5 Inches. I'd trust it for another 75-100 yards from a blunt nose bullet. My dad has killed deer at 190 yards with it.

R.W.Dale
August 5, 2012, 12:00 AM
You could load it pretty hot in a Ruger #1 single-shot.

Either a no1 or a BFR would be the strongest 30/30's offering the most case support.


169420
Sorry I just had to have a reason to post this pic

303tom
August 5, 2012, 10:09 AM
It seems some people have different definitions of the word "obsolete." I tend to think that if something still has a use, even though out performed, it doesn't mean it's obsolete. I haven't looked up the dictionary though so perhaps I'm off.
Here I looked it up for ya............
ob∑so∑lete/ˌšbsəˈlēt/
Adjective:
No longer produced or used; out of date.

I shoot my hot rods out of my Handi-rifle, I don`t think I am going to over-pressure it, here is some of my 125gr. PSP`s, they chrono. at just over 2800 fps

Vern Humphrey
August 5, 2012, 05:09 PM
Anybody who believes the .30-30 is obsolete need only go to Wal Mart and count the boxes of .30-30 on the shelves -- and compare that to the number of boxes of the latest Super-Extra-Short Bob-Tailed Magnum.

wlewisiii
August 5, 2012, 05:27 PM
Was looking for some .32 ACP at Wallyworld yesterday. Most was .30-30, closely followed by .30-06. Smaller amounts of .243, .308 & .270 followed. Tiny amounts of common long magnums.

Reminds me, I need crank up the press & make up some 170's to get some practice in before fall.

gunnutery
August 5, 2012, 05:57 PM
Thanks 303tom, for some reason I missed the post that you quoted the definition.

wyohome
August 5, 2012, 11:32 PM
I have never seen a grown man hunting with a 30-30. I have seen children and women using them.

Abel
August 5, 2012, 11:43 PM
Grown men can easily master the 30-30.

wyohome
August 5, 2012, 11:46 PM
^I should think so^

HOOfan_1
August 6, 2012, 09:38 AM
Grown men have been killing deer with the .30-30 for 118 years

Vern Humphrey
August 6, 2012, 10:02 AM
And this man has been killing them for 55 years -- often with a .30-30 hanging on the saddle, just riding them up and dismounting.

aka108
August 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
If you are hunting whitetail in the woods a 30-30 is all you need. Most of your shots will be 50 to 100 yards. Anything further you bullet is going to lodge in a tree. If you get into mule deer country some of your shots may be 300 yards so leave the 30-30 at home and grab the 30-06. These two rounds have stood the test of time and any place that sells ammo will have them.

MrDig
August 6, 2012, 10:25 AM
I have never seen a grown man hunting with a 30-30. I have seen children and women using them.

I'm comfortable enough with my Manhood to tell you this is absolutely wrong. I use one because A. it works, B. the rifles (usually a lever action) are light and short enough to use in heavy cover, and C. I will never see a shot out of range for the gun in the area that I hunt.
So please don't attempt to refer to me as a "Woman" or a "Child" because I use one. This is the High Road after all insulting people is not taking the High Road.

jrdolall
August 6, 2012, 10:59 AM
I have never seen a grown man hunting with a 30-30. I have seen children and women using them

Come on down to Alabama this November and you can see this grown man using one. I will actually call the 336 a "joy to shoot". Light recoil and light weight make it one of my preferred deer rifles and I guarantee I will kill one for the wall with it this year.

PS I already have him patterned on the trail cam and saw him several times last year as a 3 year old. He is in an area where my longest shot is about 90 yards. If he makes it till November I will hang him.

wyohome
August 6, 2012, 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by wyohome
I have never seen a grown man hunting with a 30-30. I have seen children and women using them.
I'm comfortable enough with my Manhood to tell you this is absolutely wrong.
It is absolutely right. If you were going to Wyoming on a hunt would you grab a 30-30? What makes you think anyone who lives here would then?

sage5907
August 6, 2012, 11:57 AM
If you took a Winchester Model 70 featherweight in 308 Winchester with a Leupold M8 4 power scope on it and loaded it with 150 grain bullets at 2300 fps you would have a really sweet shooting 30-30. BW

Haxby
August 6, 2012, 12:27 PM
Name a one other cartridge introduced before 1900 that has sold more rifles chambered for it in the last 117 years and I'll eat them for breakfast in the morning.
22 Long Rifle

Sam1911
August 6, 2012, 03:02 PM
If you were going to Wyoming on a hunt would you grab a 30-30? What makes you think anyone who lives here would then? What difference does it make what folks in Wyoming would use? 99.99% of the US population DOESN'T LIVE THERE. :scrutiny: So...not very helpful and doesn't answer the OP's question even a teeeeensy tiny bit.

At any rate, the OP's question is very well answered at this point so lets close before the little girly men beat up on the big macho manly men from Wyoming.

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