Different 10mm's and strength


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intercooler
August 2, 2012, 07:59 PM
I thought the S&W 1006 (that series) were supposedly the tank or best. If you do the tricks to the Witness, 1911's and Glocks what is the strongest?

Trying to figure if the G20 is the strongest but know little about the internals. I wish I had a 1006 to take tear one of each down side by side and see. Slide mass, guide rod and how it anchors, frame, etc...

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NG VI
August 2, 2012, 08:14 PM
I think the Glocks have stood up the best over the years, though I've never heard a bad word about the S&W 3rd gen pistols.

The 1911 as a platform, maybe not every individual manufacturer's model, but at least the original Colt's Delta Elite, showed some durability issues with the caliber. That very likely was growing pains associated with a manufacturer chambering a newer, higher performance round than was previously able to fit in their platform, than overall 1911 incompatibility with 10mm.

Some Witnesses had some cracking issues early on as well, but the design has been changed, and I don't believe it still happens. I think other 1911 makers have had better luck with 10mm in the 1911, probably by way of Colt's trial and error.

jmr40
August 2, 2012, 08:15 PM
I think the Smith's are probably the strongest. Glock, is the only other platform that has proven it will work. There have simply been too many problems with the 1911's and especially the EAA's to consider them.

To say which is better, Glock or Smith is hard to say. My gut feeling is to say the Smith because of the steel frame. But on the other hand Glock has many 9mm pistols with a round count of near, or over 300,000 rounds. I don't know of any other 9mm's that can make that claim regardless of frame material.

I cannot afford the ammo to wear out either. I have a Glock 20 that has served me well. Some day I'd not mind a 1006 if I ever run up on a good deal when funds are available.

intercooler
August 2, 2012, 08:18 PM
I read a 1911 will give up the ghost in the 10-15k range of full-power 10mm. I don't know how many many Match has on it but a good amount and still looks new. I'm waiting to see which one of my 10's has an issue first.

General Geoff
August 2, 2012, 08:37 PM
Bren Ten?? ;)

Stevie-Ray
August 2, 2012, 08:40 PM
I read a 1911 will give up the ghost in the 10-15k range of full-power 10mm.Well, if it does, it won't be a Colt. Mine were all full power loads, dating back to 1989.

Ash
August 2, 2012, 08:53 PM
Tanfoglio's have 10mm problems like Glock has 40S&W problems...

JROC
August 2, 2012, 09:13 PM
The Glock 20 was designed as a 10mm gun from the get go, and the 21(Glocks full size .45ACP gun) was designed off of it. 1911's were designed to be .45 ACP guns, and probably most other 10mm's were designed off other caliber frames.

I was never a big Glock fan, but I wanted a really good, functional, and practical to use for things other than just target shooting 10mm, and I though the G20SF was the best choice so that is what I went with. No regrets, and oddly enough it has become my favorite gun, and I never would of thought that before I bought it, as I have 1911's, CZ75, several shotguns, and rifles that I'm found of, but I love my Glock and the 10mm round.

I'm sure there are other good 10mm guns out there, but rest assure the Glock 10mm guns are very good, and functional as a SD/hunting gun. I'm just wondering when we are go to see them in Gen 4 Glocks.

hAkron
August 2, 2012, 10:30 PM
Here's my S&W 1006


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gkxyj6yfRJI/UBsm9OWfjtI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/RJUMM-e3oC4/s800/IMAGE_78189EC1-FAAB-4ECE-9CC0-B0A19341BFA1.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w4R9UJuNYVo/UBsnChqTc3I/AAAAAAAAAgY/ZynHqgMXDEw/s576/IMAGE_D5EA95ED-5571-4B85-A24B-B96FF3397D3F.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wYFC4KbM854/UBsnGp5azkI/AAAAAAAAAgg/zxof60zNpAU/s576/IMAGE_DE4DAF18-62C0-4D7B-A0DC-5795029C529B.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hGjbwmTjh6A/UBsnKrt25tI/AAAAAAAAAgs/9H3vpQZ9fGA/s576/IMAGE_8465364B-B639-418A-AF28-9887965D053B.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pmZYldfQhxU/UBsnOzOSxTI/AAAAAAAAAg0/nZ09wRktlf4/s576/IMAGE_9617071F-412E-4666-8F57-621AAB9AE5E1.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yb_UL21Geks/UBsnTKcwqbI/AAAAAAAAAg8/XETu5rPJD3A/s576/IMAGE_852BCC33-EA59-4883-843E-83C161D46A3A.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZAS0HzxKa7A/UBsnXzc4bdI/AAAAAAAAAhE/uM-_FPL7bDg/s800/IMAGE_1150C6A7-03C3-4318-8BC5-1D007C672B63.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VWH_mymCvi0/UBsnhFT5juI/AAAAAAAAAhM/z8--hqjy1MM/s800/IMAGE_9A69D6E2-14B8-4942-BDD1-D331349BABE2.JPG


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5BCAqCT9N6k/UBsnqxAoBYI/AAAAAAAAAhU/XdzlaPxd_BY/s800/IMAGE_5FA63CA1-6DF7-4A60-B4AD-B0F19C4226A0.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KBiBEp3-hbg/UBsn1kMT5II/AAAAAAAAAhg/pBwDpQHMh6s/s576/IMAGE_A7117F28-84E8-44AB-8882-6D33C53BC0B9.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v75tjDlWtVM/UBsoKIWBssI/AAAAAAAAAh4/ETvDkojO8uY/s576/IMAGE_12A771F0-37DD-430A-B9C1-F2B70CE0F8BB.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zpm8egR8q4Y/UBsoN8xSMyI/AAAAAAAAAiA/LUbQ3die1qA/s576/IMAGE_00F1E23C-2BD9-4580-92BD-1474E2601764.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4PjUhA_mxtQ/UBsoS7GM9VI/AAAAAAAAAiI/dFFpLPV8Dcw/s576/IMAGE_6C485010-FECA-403D-8F71-80D4A9419984.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tH9ERK3I4DA/UBsoYysxwfI/AAAAAAAAAiU/XR9W8n0OHHQ/s576/IMAGE_0F3FED90-71D7-4FBE-B59D-EC8218F05E80.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aLd4RBQaOS0/UBsodqxpqUI/AAAAAAAAAic/qD5UkhDovFM/s576/IMAGE_A706A58E-6D58-4B40-BDC2-79FF5C27871A.JPG

intercooler
August 2, 2012, 11:25 PM
Interesting pics of your 1006. Can you do a shot of it with the guide rod and how it clips in?

I notice the barrel lug is a single. My Witness barrels have two but think the slide may be thicker. Wonder what the slide weighs?

intercooler
August 2, 2012, 11:36 PM
Stock Match guide rod

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=416414031729968&set=a.206260146078692.50562.206257602745613&type=3&theater

Henning Cone guide rod for Match

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=416414341729937&set=a.206260146078692.50562.206257602745613&type=3&theater

Match shoulder where the guide rod clips in

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=416413781729993&set=a.206260146078692.50562.206257602745613&type=3&theater

Side by side

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=416406935064011&set=a.206260146078692.50562.206257602745613&type=3&theater

Witness barrel with two lugs

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=276599495711423&set=a.206260146078692.50562.206257602745613&type=3&theater

LeonCarr
August 3, 2012, 12:00 AM
I was shooting in a USPSA Match back in the 90s and one of the local Game Wardens brought a S&W 1006 10mm. As soon as he fired the first shot, I knew he was shooting full power ammo. The first stage of the match involved the first shot hitting a 50 yard Pepper Popper. When he hit that popper it sounded like BOOMCLANGSLAP :). After he finished the stage and while the RO inspected the popper for damage, myself and about six other people asked him what kind of ammo he was shooting. It was factory Norma 170 Grain JHP at 1400 fps. Except for the recent Doubletap and Buffalo Bore offerings, the Norma stuff is some of the hottest 10mm ammo ever factory loaded. Even with the double action first shot and the 238 Power Factor ammo, he still came in 7th out of 27 shooters and won 1st Unclassified.

S&W 1006...good guns.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

hAkron
August 3, 2012, 12:09 AM
Guide rod installed in slide
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uw7kpZZoX_8/UBs_sVnBcQI/AAAAAAAAAqc/X9iWvIeir0E/s576/IMAGE_93733CEB-5C99-4C17-A13B-52C2E84957A7.JPG

Guide rod installed in frame with slide removed
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e367sAYcv0w/UBs_xkPDexI/AAAAAAAAAqk/jApVRGMYivI/s576/IMAGE_0B176ED3-D3B8-441C-BDE8-479E292F0F0A.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CYN-7jnqQ8E/UBs_2ooIJmI/AAAAAAAAAqs/TjPUjmLjt0g/s576/IMAGE_E5B2873D-C1D6-4F8E-90DA-91E5C4A691F2.JPG

Forgive the cheap-o scale...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4leZP4s428k/UBs_8fira0I/AAAAAAAAArY/MSzO9RAf6es/s576/IMAGE_04AB849B-0860-42BC-9701-0F71BFE8AD27.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QQZi-zA8s5g/UBtAA8A-ZcI/AAAAAAAAArc/GYIWBNt9U1U/s576/IMAGE_46D8DF81-3676-4CC5-949F-6C5D7A51F173.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X52JvmkQjvw/UBtAF9TbCLI/AAAAAAAAArg/kvhGl1DJtVY/s576/IMAGE_7E75129A-6AC4-4C1A-BC6F-233E60B25B5E.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rrLqt4IY7MY/UBtAMiWHDZI/AAAAAAAAArk/IJS3IugD0z4/s576/IMAGE_C18A4DFE-FC31-4D9E-B4F0-81E6EEEE6EFC.JPG

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 12:12 AM
Underwood is the 10mm King now. Actually just about any caliber!

He has taken the 10mm to levels that are :what: but shoot safely.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=0

I put this together a while back and the 800lb Club only has one:

These are your Elite suppliers for real 10mm ammo:

800lb Club
- Underwood Ammo

700lb Club
- Underwood Ammo
- Buffalo Bore

600lb Club
- Underwood Ammo
- DoubleTap
- Buffalo Bore
- Right To Bear Ammo
- Trident Ammo
- Parabellum Research Ammo
- Reed's Ammo
- MAC Ammo
- Grizzly Cartridge Company
- HPR Ammo
- Armscor
- Thunderbird Cartridge Company
- Precision Cartridge Company
- Atomic Ammunition


If Elite Ammo starts 10mm again they will be added.

hAkron
August 3, 2012, 12:14 AM
I haven't really ever been attracted to S&W autos, but when I caught the 10mm bug last week, and I saw this fine weapon on sale...I'm very proud to own this gun.

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 12:17 AM
Nice shots! Let me see what I have for a scale (nice one BTW!). How is the wiggle on the end of the guide rod? I see it has a nipple (LOL) where it clips in. Can you rock it? The Match stock rod you could move it around and it didn't give you the full 270 degrees of surface area the cone does. The cone rod is solid and gives 270 degrees of support.

In that area the huge lug of the Match is much thicker than the 1006.

hAkron
August 3, 2012, 12:30 AM
When the guide rod is just in the frame there isn't a whole lot of movement in its channel, but installing the guide rod into the slide can be a little harrowing. There is just a teeny tiny ledge on the barrel where it sits, and the spring is under incredible tension. You could really hurt yourself by launching the guide rod into yourself or an unsuspecting bystander.

Funny story, I decided early last week to get a 10mm. I knew a place selling a Witness 10mm used. I'm a fan of CZs, so a 10mm Tanfoglio (Witness) was my first choice by a mile. I even had a poll running on this site to see if I could be talked out of it. The poll respondents spoke very highly of the 1006, but I figured it wouldn't be practical or affordable to get one. The auction sites have them going for around what I could buy a new Colt Delta Elite. Well, to make a long story short. Gun store "A" no longer had the Witness. I was close to buying one on Gallery of Guns and/or Bud's Gunshop. I walked into gun shop B and was half talking myself into buying a Polly Witness in 10mm when I saw the 1006 for cheaper than the Witness or a new Glock 20. I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough!

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 12:52 AM
I call your cheap scale with an even cheaper one :)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/Intercooler2/20120802_233118.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/Intercooler2/20120802_232942.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/Intercooler2/20120802_233041.jpg


Don't have anything that will go high enough to weigh the full assembled Match. The frame went past zero BTW.

JROC
August 3, 2012, 12:55 AM
I wish Swampfox was still around. That guy made some great 10mm ammo. Unfortunately he passed a little while back.

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 01:00 AM
The Match is 1/4" shorter. It looks like the frame may weigh more than the 1006?

That deal you got on the 1006 was nuts!

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 01:01 AM
Yes he did for sure!

MachIVshooter
August 3, 2012, 02:39 AM
Well, the LAR grizzly was far and away the strongest 10mm, but they're also not a normal size gun; The same platform was used for .45 Win Mag and .50 AE.

In a duty gun, the S&W 10XX are the toughest.

ku4hx
August 3, 2012, 06:53 AM
I own a Glock Gen2 model 20 and a Smith 1006; both bought in the early '90s. Both have been fired extensively since purchase and both have held up extremely well. Being my favorite cartridge to load, and my favorite to shoot, "extensively" means ten of thousands of rounds each. Right now I don't have access to my round-count data.

Basically I've had no problems with either gun but I do prefer the G20 mainly because it's current production.

Although out of production, parts for the 1006 are still available as well as magazines. The only replacement part I've ever had to install on the 1006 was a set of grips S&W supplied shortly after purchase because of reported grip breakage incidents. The G20's frame internals were upgraded about ten years ago at Glock's suggestion. I never experienced any kind of performance or safety issues.

C0untZer0
August 3, 2012, 11:24 AM
EAA Witness Hunter is a big beefy gun that stands up well to the 10mm cartridge - but its not a duty size gun either.

gym
August 3, 2012, 11:38 AM
But what ammo do you use that lives up to the guns potential. From what i have read, that is the main problem for those who don't reload. The stock stuff in stores really dosen't do the gun justice.

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 11:39 AM
Yup my Hunter is pretty darn stout. With the heavier spring in it and flat bottom firing pin block it shoots the hottest 10mm to a boring level.

Here is the guide rod out of it:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/311515_4251069281996_727601993_n.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/548760_4251073602104_1420118135_n.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563484_4251064281871_347018748_n.jpg

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 01:18 PM
gym did you miss all the stuff up there? It's laid out about as good as can be where and who makes that ammo.

Ash
August 3, 2012, 03:00 PM
Witness Match is duty-sized and it handles 10mm fine.

intercooler
August 3, 2012, 05:13 PM
Love mine! I did the Henning cone guide rod and flat bottom firing pin block in it. Put a 22lb Wolff recoil spring in it and also shoots the hot stuff excellent.

Someone want to take down a G20 or G29 for us?

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