Is a 9x18 makarov round more power or as power as a .380?


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dbrown
August 3, 2012, 07:58 AM
Which one is more powerful?

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mgmorden
August 3, 2012, 08:02 AM
Generally 9mm Mak, but it depends. Some .380 loads beat 9mm Mak. Last time I checked Buffalo Bore's website their hottest .380's were more powerful than their hottest Makarov loads.

If you're just talking generalities though, on paper 9mm Mak has a slight edge, but for all practical purposes they're more or less equivalent.

2wheels
August 3, 2012, 08:54 AM
They're close enough that I'd base my decision on the gun, not the caliber. There are far more modern platforms chambered in .380, pretty much all 9x18 guns are old ComBloc stuff. That's not to say that they're bad guns, in fact just the opposite in many cases, but it's up to you and what gun you prefer.

Snowdog
August 3, 2012, 09:12 AM
I agree that the differences between the two is slight enough to be considered null; if one studies the two, they will find much overlapping in terms of performance.

However, between the two the 9x18 is generally considered to have the edge (whatever that may be).

PabloJ
August 3, 2012, 09:20 AM
The difference is 50fps for typical load of equal bullet weight from same barrel length.

Fastcast
August 3, 2012, 10:32 AM
The CZ 82s with polygonal barrels have repeatedly been chronograph-ed over 1100fps with Brown or Silver Bear FMJ & HP....The Makarov comes in at about 1075fps so unless you're buying premium .380 ammo and running it through a larger framed .380 like the Beretta & Sigs, I'd say the 9x18 has a "somewhat" considerable advantage.

Seeing as many people don't trust HP bullets in these calibers (say 50%) and choose standard FMJ for defense and most standard .380 FMJ is only running about 950fps even in the large frame .380s and even less 850fps in the peewee pistols like the LCP & Keltec.....so now you're starting to see a considerable disadvantage from 850fps to 1100fps.

Seeing as your only option in 9x18 are the larger frame pistols and than with .380 most tend to go with the peewee pistols, I'm not sure it's as negligible as some make it out to be....IMO

Of course this theory doesn't take into consideration: ease of carrying or stepping up to a 9x19 which some will argue next. Only what's available in 9x18 pistols and than what's available in .380 and what most tend to carry in .380

Godsgunman
August 3, 2012, 11:17 AM
I personally prefer the 9x18 because of the increased fps and it is ever so slightly a bigger projectile .363 compared to .355 I believe, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I carry the CZ 82 and use the bears (brown and silver) and have found it to be a very capable round. Not to mention much cheaper than 380.

JERRY
August 3, 2012, 11:26 AM
the 9mmMak is slightly more powerfull than the .380acp if you compare the best loads in each caliber from similar sized guns.

however, that slight difference is not much, and considering the wider availability of guns and ammo for the .380acp id pick it over the 9mmMak.

Wil Terry
August 3, 2012, 11:43 AM
THE 9MM MAK is the 380ACP with delusions of granduer.

M7
August 3, 2012, 02:11 PM
For those prefering to use FMJs (as stated above) for both the .380 and the 9mmMAK, there's little difference 'tween the two.

A 9mm MAK 95 gr FMJ at 1100 fps will penetrate about 20" and a .380 95 gr FMJ at 950 fps will penetrate 18".

I'd go with the .380 for its availability.

amd6547
August 3, 2012, 02:11 PM
During the last ammo shortage, when 9mm Luger and 380acp was impossible to find, I could buy all the 9mm Mak I wanted.
I shot my CZ82 and P64 then more than anything.

Fastcast
August 3, 2012, 02:44 PM
For those prefering to use FMJs (as stated above) for both the .380 and the 9mmMAK, there's little difference 'tween the two.

A 9mm MAK 95 gr FMJ at 1100 fps will penetrate about 20" and a .380 95 gr FMJ at 950 fps will penetrate 18".



It's more like 850-1100 if using a LCP w/FMJ (very common these days) as compared to a Mak or 82 and that very well could be the difference between getting beyond bones/barriers and still having enough steam to get to vital organs at long angles.

I own both...an LCP and CZ82 and certainly have more faith in the 82 getting the job done!

Wishoot
August 3, 2012, 03:08 PM
It's more like 850-1100 if using a LCP w/FMJ (very common these days) as compared to a Mak or 82 and that very well could be the difference between getting beyond bones/barriers and still having enough steam to get to vital organs at long angles.

I own both...an LCP and CZ82 and certainly have more faith in the 82 getting the job done!
12+1 is nice to have too.

M7
August 3, 2012, 03:08 PM
It's more like 850-1100 if using a LCP w/FMJ (very common these days) as compared to a Mak or 82 and that very well could be the difference between getting beyond bones/barriers and still having enough steam to get to vital organs at long angles.

I own both...an LCP and CZ82 and certainly have more faith in the 82 getting the job done!
OK, so now you have (using FMJs) the .380 giving you 17" of penetration vs. the 9mmMAK giving you 20" of penetration. Either way, both will probably pass through an attacker's body and do the same amount of damage* along the way.

(Yes, I know that the 9mmMAK has a "bigger" diameter by about 0.01", but I doubt that it matters much in the grand scheme of things)

If you have faith in the 82, that's worth its weight in gold and half the battle. Defending yourself with a gun that you don't trust (for whatever reason) is not a pleasant thought.

WardenWolf
August 3, 2012, 07:36 PM
The 9x18 round is about 10% more powerful than the .380. With Hornady and other manufacturers now offering excellent hollowpoints in 9x18, these milsurps can be top-notch defensive sidearms. I honestly would trust a milsurp over any of the commercial offerings out there. The quality of the 9x18 pistols far exceeds the average quality of the commercial .380 offerings available in terms of reliability and accuracy. A bad military pistol is either fixed or scrapped long before it gets to you, so your odds of getting a lemon are slim to none. Availability of 9x18 ammo is excellent if you order online, and range ammo from Silver Bear is super-cheap.

06
August 3, 2012, 07:47 PM
I carry a Mak every day but my "Sunday go-to-meetin" shooter is a Sig 232 in 380. Shot a "cooter" (snapping turtle) in the neck and recovered the boolits. One had mushroomed perfectly and the other almost as nicely. Was using Winchester Rangers. It made a believer out of me. Will probably end up with another 232---hey, we have two hands--might as well fill them both--as John Wayne told the SOBs.

Xero
August 4, 2012, 12:27 AM
M7,

How do you know that those fmjs will penetrate that deep? Is there a chart or something that I need to know about?

antiquus
August 4, 2012, 02:40 AM
The Mak is more powerful, take a look at reloading tables and you see a consistently heavier charge used in the Mak loads. But having said that, the bigger and more important difference is the guns - most Maks have a 3 in barrel, are heavy enough to absorb recoil and stay on target, and like most Russian designs they just work and are rugged. The CZ's are even better.

Typical .380's nowadays are small and light, nice to carry but you sacrifice some stability, power and reliability to get to that 9 oz gun. A .380 in the same size and weight and barrel length as a Mak would be very nearly as powerful, a little shopping you could probably find a round more powerful - but more expensive too.

Ammo is no problem for Maks, the local Cabela's has 10 different brands of Mak stocked, and the Silver Bear is way cheap by mail order and as others have said it's great ammo. You won't find Mak at Walmart, but in the last year I've only found .380 there once.

M7
August 4, 2012, 11:06 AM
M7,

How do you know that those fmjs will penetrate that deep? Is there a chart or something that I need to know about?

No. No charts.

I use the Schwartz terminal ballistic model found in Quantitative Ammunition Selection. (my sig line) All that is required is the bullet's recovered diameter (FMJs and other non-expanding bullets use their initial diameter), retained or initial mass, and the impact velocity. Enter them into the model and it yields the bullet's maximum penetration depth, its permanent wound cavity mass, and its exit velocity (where applicable) in gelatin/soft tissue.

You can also use the MacPherson model, available in his book, Bullet Penetration, although it's not for the "mathematically faint of heart"- lots of calculus and some trigonometry. You'll have to dig through MacPherson's book to hunt the model's equations down (there are four of them) and then you'll have to (re)arrange them correctly. In all fairness, there are graphs at the back of the book that you can use, but they are faint and kind of indistinct which makes any sort of precision nearly impossible. However, there's a lot of good theory in the book.

In QAS, the author dedicates a whole chapter to explaining the model's derivation and lays all of the equations out (there are three of them), complete with their definitions, on one easy to read page- no assembly required. :D The following chapter has quite a few examples that'll show you everything you need to know. There's also a model for bullet penetration against steel sheet later in the book.

Good luck. :)

Ar180shooter
August 4, 2012, 02:43 PM
Which one is more powerful?
For all intents and purposes, they are equal.

nathan
August 4, 2012, 07:29 PM
9 mmMakarov can deliver that killshot if done right .

http://multimedia.asiaone.com/Multimedia/News/Story/A1Multimedia20100710-10460.html

BSA1
August 4, 2012, 07:36 PM
During the last ammo shortage, when 9mm Luger and 380acp was impossible to find, I could buy all the 9mm Mak I wanted. I shot my CZ82 and P64 then more than anything.

Ditto. the CZ82 and P64 are excellent quality, affordable and available as is Brown Bear and Silver Bear ammo which runs around $10.00/50 rds.

Colonel Custer
August 4, 2012, 08:11 PM
The 9MM Makarov aka 9mmx18 is smaller than the 9mmx19 but larger than the .380(which is 9mmx17.)

WardenWolf
August 4, 2012, 08:11 PM
That is definitely something to consider. I noticed myself that when common calibers disappear, less-common ones are still widely available. The supply for 9x18 Makarov ammo is there, but the demand is not. Because of this, you'll never really have a problem finding it.

I personally carry a P-64, though I have carried my Bulgarian Makarov in the past. I also own a PA-63 and have fired my friend's CZ-82. There's a good selection of different pistols available, and all of them are extremely accurate and completely reliable. Don Hume and other companies make good holsters. Don Hume's Makarov holster fits the Makarov, P-64, and PA-63. They also have a version for the CZ-82. I really can't complain about the caliber or the guns chambered in it, and you're guaranteed to get a good gun regardless of which one you pick. They work first time, every time.

MCgunner
August 4, 2012, 09:05 PM
During the last ammo shortage, when 9mm Luger and 380acp was impossible to find, I could buy all the 9mm Mak I wanted.

I reload, but even primers got hard to find for a good while. Good to know I might be able to still get 9x18 for my P64. That thing is accurate, I like shooting it. Monarch is cheap, too. :D

mgmorden
August 4, 2012, 11:40 PM
The 9MM Makarov aka 9mmx18 is smaller than the 9mmx19 but larger than the .380(which is 9mmx17.)

There's a mistake to be made at looking at those numbers though.

If .380 is 9x17, 9mm Mak is 9x18, and 9mm Luger is 9x19, then the assumption many people make is that 9mm Mak is split evenly between .380 and 9mm Luger in power. That's not the case at all.

It'd be kinda like saying a 16oz soda is "in between" a 12 oz and a 2 liter. Just its in between, but it's a lot closer to one than the other. Similarly, 9mm Mak is between .380 and 9mm Luger, but it's a LOT closer to .380 in power than the Luger.

WardenWolf
August 5, 2012, 12:35 AM
Yet it's still better than a .380. At this point in the game, the 9x18 round, to me, is the logical choice over the .380. The ammo choices and availability are there, and the guns that shoot it are of better quality. Yes, they're a little bulkier than heavier than some of the commercial .380 offerings, but you can't argue with military grade hardware. The fact that these designs were not only accepted but stayed in service for decades speaks loads to their quality.

Xero
August 5, 2012, 01:42 AM
No. No charts.

I use the Schwartz terminal ballistic model found in Quantitative Ammunition Selection. (my sig line) All that is required is the bullet's recovered diameter (FMJs and other non-expanding bullets use their initial diameter), retained or initial mass, and the impact velocity. Enter them into the model and it yields the bullet's maximum penetration depth, its permanent wound cavity mass, and its exit velocity (where applicable) in gelatin/soft tissue.

You can also use the MacPherson model, available in his book, Bullet Penetration, although it's not for the "mathematically faint of heart"- lots of calculus and some trigonometry. You'll have to dig through MacPherson's book to hunt the model's equations down (there are four of them) and then you'll have to (re)arrange them correctly. In all fairness, there are graphs at the back of the book that you can use, but they are faint and kind of indistinct which makes any sort of precision nearly impossible. However, there's a lot of good theory in the book.

In QAS, the author dedicates a whole chapter to explaining the model's derivation and lays all of the equations out (there are three of them), complete with their definitions, on one easy to read page- no assembly required. :D The following chapter has quite a few examples that'll show you everything you need to know. There's also a model for bullet penetration against steel sheet later in the book.

Good luck. :)
Thanks M7. Looks like I got some reading to do.

Okiegunner
August 5, 2012, 01:50 AM
Just from what I have read, OK?

It is kind of like a .380 on "weak" steroids.

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