I thought I wanted an AR based 308...


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gspn
August 3, 2012, 07:15 PM
I thought I wanted an AR based 308...but now that I'm looking for one I'm seeing so many variations that I think I have "analysis paralysis".

So many people make them but the 308 segment lacks the parts/accessory interchangeability of the 5.56 market.

Seems like everyone uses a different mag, everyones lowers use different parts, and prices are all over the place.

Is there a good resource out there that sums up the differences or pro's and con's of the multitude of models out there?

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A-FIXER
August 3, 2012, 07:29 PM
Food for thought...... Fal!!!!

mjsdwash
August 3, 2012, 07:40 PM
i agree, FAL. The ar's are good, and i love them in 5.56, but they seem a little fragile for something that heavy and expensive. I thought I saw one that took Fal mags, may have been rra.

mberoose
August 3, 2012, 07:43 PM
ARs are overrated anyways.

-runs away-

06
August 3, 2012, 07:50 PM
May just be me but that Aluminum chassis and small pin seems a bit light for pushing heavier loads accurately.

BBQLS1
August 3, 2012, 07:52 PM
I don't know much about ARs, but I do know they are lighter than a FAL.

JHenry
August 3, 2012, 07:59 PM
i think rock river arms makes one that accepts FAL mags. And while the AR-10 doesnt host the same amount of aftermarket parts as its 223 counterpart there is still a wide range to choose from.

Whatever you decide on just be sure to read alot on whichever product your thinking about. Both positive and negative

-v-
August 3, 2012, 08:15 PM
Most important question: How much are you willing to spend and what do you want to do with it?

Big_E
August 3, 2012, 08:15 PM
There is also the PTR-91, M1A and SCAR-17.

The lack of proprietary parts does discourage me from investing in a AR-10 platform. Maybe in the future the market will be more standardized based on how the M110 does in the military.

If I was building a precision rifle, I'd go M1A or PTR. For a plinker/"battle rifle" I'd go with a SCAR or FAL. Or PTR GI, or M1A, or 308 Saiga... or :)

**Or you could go with whatever company can use the .308 PMAG. Which I believe is Knight's or DPMS I think.

Cal-gun Fan
August 3, 2012, 08:49 PM
Armalite is making ones that take the PMAG now too, I think.

rcmodel
August 3, 2012, 08:58 PM
May just be me but that Aluminum chassis and small pin seems a bit light for pushing heavier loads accurately. The small pins and aluminum upper & lower do nothing but hold the stressed steel parts together in one bunch.

None of them are stressed parts on the AR design.
The steel bolt and bolt carrier take all the strain when locked in battery inside the steel barrel extension.

rc

gspn
August 3, 2012, 09:15 PM
Most important question: How much are you willing to spend and what do you want to do with it?
My thoughts are that the rifle would perform several roles. The first would be as a gun with more reach and punch that the 5.56 (I have several of those already).

I'd do some target shooting, some hunting (deer and hog), and it would also be a backup in case of a New Orleans type civil unrest incident...just in case you had to be on your own for a week or so.

I started thinking of the AR platform because the knowledge transfers from one gun to all the others...the manual of arms would be identical.

I'm not married to the idea...I just thought that would be a good place to start.

Ideally I'd spend between 1k and 2k on the rifle...optics would be an additional expense later. I could spend more if it would get me a lot more functionality...but I don't want to spend more just to up the "cool factor".

Infidel4life11
August 3, 2012, 09:17 PM
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/Mk3-18-308-Rifle-CHF-1837 I really like these guys.

gspn
August 3, 2012, 09:21 PM
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/Mk3-18-308-Rifle-CHF-1837 I really like these guys.
Nice timing...I just bought one of their 5.56 rifles earlier this week. I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet. It's nice to see a vote of confidence on the rifle...I'll check out their 308 too.

Dean1818
August 3, 2012, 09:24 PM
I went through the same process, as I wanted a AR in 308

After careful research, I purchased a Bison armory lower and LPK
With gieselle trigger to build.

Its in 6.8 (Bison is one of the leaders in the 6.8 field)

Why?

1) the AR15 is MUCH easier to build

2) the AR15 will end up being 2 plus pounds lighter, vs a 308 AR
(important when you hunt)

3) the AR15 platform allows me extreme flexibility as I can put a 5.56, 6.8, 22LR, and other caliber
uppers on the lower

The 308 AR gives me almost no options

4) 6.8 is easy on brass and reloaders are getting 6-12 loadings

5) tula ammo is coming out with plinking ammo in 6.8 in 2013

6) 6.8 isnt a 308 in power (about 80% of) but will still have terminal velocity at 350 yards.
I wouldnt shoot that far anyway. (in north texas a 200 yard range, or a shot at a animal at over
200 yards is rare.)


So.... My path is 6.8

TonyAngel
August 4, 2012, 02:46 AM
I'd do some target shooting, some hunting (deer and hog), and it would also be a backup in case of a New Orleans type civil unrest incident...just in case you had to be on your own for a week or so.

If the civil unrest part of your requirements is playing any sort of major role in this purchase decision, you're getting the wrong weapon. The rifle is too big and bulky and the ammunition weighs too much and takes up too much space.

justice06rr
August 4, 2012, 04:58 AM
The only compatible parts you can really interchange are accessories like sights, flashlights, etc.

If you really wanted a 308 I would recommend the SCAR-17. Otherwise, if you want to stick with the AR15 platform you have many many caliber options besides the 308.

rayatphonix
August 4, 2012, 06:02 AM
6.5 Grendel is another option. Somewhat better ballistics than a 6.8 if you think longer shots may be required. 200 yards and under, there's no advantage over the 6.8. I've got an AR 10 and while it's great for several activities, walking through the woods isn't one of them. My next purchase will be a Grendel upper so I can hunt deer with an AR platform rifle.

madcratebuilder
August 4, 2012, 06:27 AM
I thought I wanted an AR based 308...but now that I'm looking for one I'm seeing so many variations that I think I have "analysis paralysis".

So many people make them but the 308 segment lacks the parts/accessory interchangeability of the 5.56 market.

Seems like everyone uses a different mag, everyones lowers use different parts, and prices are all over the place.

Is there a good resource out there that sums up the differences or pro's and con's of the multitude of models out there?

There are different uppers/lowers, the bolt release and mag catch can be proprietary. Several magazines used, G3, FAL, M14 and SR-25. The SR-25 is the defacto standard with ArmaLite, CMMG, LMT, KAC, DPMS and others using them.

The lightest 7.62 AR's are just under 8lbs in A2 configuration. Scoped with accessories can be up to 12lbs. They are the most accurate semi rifle you are likly to encounter, My 21" N6 easily out shoots my NM M1A.

This FAQ (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_62/378850_AR10_FAQ_and_information_Small_Update_2012.html) well show the differences in the uppers/lowers, RE's and other parts. While it's mainly for the AR-10 it does cover the others to a point. Of all the 7.62 and 30.06 gas guns I have, the AR-10/N6 is the most comfortable to shoot. The new ArmaLite AR-10A uses SR-25 mags and has a life time warranty, starts at $1500.

velocette
August 4, 2012, 09:44 AM
My DPMS LR 308B which I've had for about 5 years is the most accurate rifle I own. Easily sub MOA with decent ammo, 5 rd 100yd groups that you can cover with a nickel if I do my part. In the 5 years, it has never jammed, failed, or had any part break, wear or be replaced. Now about 2000 rds downrange. Including the scope, I have about $2000.00 invested, some of the best money I have ever spent on a firearm. Ordered from the factory with a cryo barrel, JP trigger & JP adjustable gas block. The only modification I have done is to install a Magpul MOE+ pistol grip.

Roger

kestak
August 4, 2012, 10:47 AM
Greetings,

I may be of some help.
If you want to go cheap and roll the dice, CETME is a choice. SAIGA is another choice and should function better than the CETME overall. If you want reliability and decent pricing, the PTR91 sold by CDNN around 950$ is great for the money.
M1A is a great semi-auto in 308. If you want to use iron sights.

AR-based, I look at a lot of them and it was my last buy. I read too many people complaining about DMPS. RRA LAR-8 is great but they have many proprietary parts. CMMG not bad, but read some horror stories too. It is why I decided to go with LMT MVS models. Nowhere I read people having issues and the accuracy is great.

Thank you

kcshooter
August 4, 2012, 11:04 AM
The SR-25 is the defacto standard with ArmaLite, CMMG, LMT, KAC, DPMS and others using them.I thought Armalite was the "other" pattern?


I've got an LR 308, and I've also had no issues whatsoever with it, run factory, CProducts, and Magpuls magazines without fail, and find it's accuracy to be much better than I expected out of a semiauto AR pattern rifle. Softer recoil than expected too.

I had a PTR that I absolutely despised, wasn't as accurate, much more recoil, and just a disgusting mess to clean, dirtiest rifle I ever had and left the marks from the fluting on all my brass.
I'd consider an M1A, but I don't like a lot of the scope mounting options. The FAL weighs a lot and also recoils more, but an iconic rifle.

-v-
August 4, 2012, 12:35 PM
The SR-25 standard is what everyone seems to be moving towards. While the ability to use FAL/M14 magazines was a big plus 8-10 years ago, that is not the case today with magpul making SR25 PMags.

For a $1k-2k range, I would personally go with an Armalite AR-10A ($1.5k). If this is going to be a rough use rifle, I think either a chrome-lined or a stainless barrel is a biiig plus. One other plus is the rifle is 7.75lb - right in the same range as an AR15.

CMMG's offering looks nice too, but I am unsure if the CHF barrel is also chrome lined. You may want to email them about it.

Now, not to discount DPMS's offerings, their LR308 RECON looks like a sharp rifle as well. Comes with a stainless barrel, but it is about a pound heavier then the AR-10A, conversely, should be $100-200 cheaper too. DPMS's LR308 line seem to be much superior to their regular offerings as far as fit and finish. Fair disclosure I have their 16" LR308 offering and am very pleased with it. Just give the chamber a good cleaning after running Russian steel cased before going back to brass.

On the debate of 20" vs 18" vs 16". Loading a 16" with 180gr pills, they will stay super-sonic out to 900-1000 yards, although your come-up at 1000 is going to be almost 500 inches (!!). Myself? I'll take a handier over a longer rifle almost any day, and the loss of 200 yards of absolute range doesn't really bother me much.

Robert101
August 4, 2012, 01:35 PM
I think your original thought of wanting an AR based 308 is still valid. I made the choice of purchasing the DPMS Tac20 with Nikon glass. Did a trigger job and went shooting. Total package was less than $1,400 with 1MOA accuracy. The AR or LR rifles allow what is akin to plug and play on IBM computers ...... Interchangeability. You simply can't get that on the other platforms.

Danco411
August 4, 2012, 09:34 PM
I started in .308 AR' with a DPMS LR Sportical. Nice rifle at a good price. Very accurate and relatively light. I ended up swapping out almost everything... Fulton barrel, JP Vtac hand guard, Geissele trigger, PRS Stock.....everything except the receivers. It got much more accurate and much heavier! I ended up selling the receivers and got the Mega MATEN set. Beautiful and wicked accurate. I thought I would be happy with it but yor never done with AR's!

I sold my Mega build and was looking at a Larue OBR or LWRC Reper when I stumbled on a POF P308 in Robar NP3 locally. Wow! The 16" short stroke piston system is as accurate as my Mega was and about 3lbs lighter. It's a Ferrari of rifles in the same class as Larue, LMT and LWRC in .308. Just short of KAC.

Sorry but 6.8 and Grendel won't touch it. Creedmore and 260 will but you better hand load. I do hand load and my POF eats everything and is sub MOA out a long way with Hornady's A-Max bullets. Like anything you get what you pay for.

nyc71
August 5, 2012, 01:56 AM
I have a LR308 that has given me no issues what so ever. My only complain is even at 16" of barrel length it's front heavy.
169426

TIMC
August 5, 2012, 10:22 AM
I have a Bushmaster AR-10 with 20" barrel that takes FAL mags and a DPMS LR308 with a 16" barrel. Both are super accurate and super reliable. Both rifles are also sub moa shooters with hand loads.

Oh and one more thing, when I got my first AR-10 years ago I sold my FAL and never regretted it! :rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/BushmasterAR10smile-1.jpg?t=1242302973
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/14dc4cb6.jpg?t=1342579664

essayons21
August 5, 2012, 12:48 PM
The AR-10 platform isn't as lego-like as the AR15, but it is still more interchangeable than pretty much any other battle rifle design I can think of. I started with a DPMS Sportical .308, ended up trading it for a DPMS LR260, and also was given an Armalite AR10A2. The DPMS accepts all of the SR-25 pattern magazines, the Armalite only accepts Armalite/m14 magazines.

I love the DPMS, and for my purposes the Armalite doesn't do anything better to justify the $500 price difference. I will probably end up selling the AR10 just because of the magazine issue.

Now that Armalite is making the AR10A which accepts SR25 mags, there really is no reason not to go with an Armalite if that is what you want.

mtrmn
August 5, 2012, 04:02 PM
I have one of the old pre-RRA-sale Bushmasters in A2 configuration as well. Called the BAR10, it was the forerunner of the present day RRA's. RRA bought the rights to the design and improved on it. My old Bushmaster is very accurate and I love shooting it. It is heavy though with a full mag and the big scope I have on it.

My son has a Armalite 16" carbine which doesn't weigh much more than my 16" AR15 carbines. Very handy for a 308.

In my opinion, AR-type rifles are just an inherently accurate design and I've never seen one that did not shoot well WITH AMMO IT LIKES.

Old Dog Man
August 5, 2012, 05:58 PM
I had a R25-308 it was superr accurate, but was too heavy to be useful. I sold it after 1 hunting season, last year. Al

henschman
August 6, 2012, 01:57 AM
I know what you mean about "analysis paralysis." First you need to define what type of role you want the rifle to fill, then decide which features you require, and then start looking at which manufacturers make such a thing.

In my case, I wanted a rifle for Second Amendment purposes. The features I wanted were a mfg. with a good reputation for reliability, and a 20", chrome lined, lighter profile barrel. That led me pretty quickly to Armalite, since they are the only mfg. who makes such a thing, unless you go with a custom job.

madcratebuilder
August 6, 2012, 07:02 AM
I thought Armalite was the "other" pattern?


I've got an LR 308, and I've also had no issues whatsoever with it, run factory, CProducts, and Magpuls magazines without fail, and find it's accuracy to be much better than I expected out of a semiauto AR pattern rifle. Softer recoil than expected too.

I had a PTR that I absolutely despised, wasn't as accurate, much more recoil, and just a disgusting mess to clean, dirtiest rifle I ever had and left the marks from the fluting on all my brass.
I'd consider an M1A, but I don't like a lot of the scope mounting options. The FAL weighs a lot and also recoils more, but an iconic rifle.
ArmaLite released the AR-10A model the first of this year. This new model uses the SR-25 magazine. It has the same life time warranty of the AR-10B model that uses modified M14 mags. The AR-10B with the M14 mags was a AWB compliant fire arm.

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