Kahr cm9 or pm9?


PDA






GlackAttack
August 4, 2012, 03:50 PM
I am debating for my next concealed carry firearm, my current SR9c is a little large for me (5'11" 165lbs). The Kahr's are attractive to me because of their small size, reliability, and customer service. Also they seem to have many accessories when compared to the nano, keltec and others in this group. I like glock, but these glock clones are much smaller than the G26.

So, help me decide between the 2 in the title, and hell, the .40 versions as well. The pm9 generally sells for about $200 more than the cm9. So far I am leaning towards the pm because it employs polygonal rifling, which is much easier to clean. Also it is much easier to put night sights on the pm, according to my lgs. This is because the front sight is "pinned in" on the cm.. also the pm9 has cool looking bevels on the slide.. the pm comes with extra mag whereas cm does not. im probably missing something but anyways I'm sure some of you have been through this, so I am just asking for input. Any other suggestions are welcome. Anyone own one of these with accessories? I'd love to see them.

If you enjoyed reading about "Kahr cm9 or pm9?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Inebriated
August 4, 2012, 03:53 PM
That's about it. I think the PM slide is also 1/8" shorter.

If you can afford it, go for the PM. The night sights are kind of a big deal, and the extra magazine and polyganol rifling are always nice.

Lost Sheep
August 4, 2012, 03:54 PM
I was in my LGS last weekend and looked at those two models. The counterman told me that the PM also has a superior trigger group (though I could not tell the difference between the two individuals I handled).

If you shoot lead bullets, the polygonal rifled barrel NEEDS to be cleaned better, before shooting jacketed or plated bullets. I am told that a leaded polygonal barrel exerts more drag on copper-clad and can result in greatly increased pressures.

I went home with a Ruger SR1911, which is what I went there for. But gee whiz, those were two REALLY NICE small 45s.

Lost Sheep

wow6599
August 4, 2012, 04:02 PM
I have a PM9, my wife a CM9.

I used to think that the CM9 was the better "value", but as time goes on - I think the PM9 is worth the extra money.

The CM9 has much sharper edges, one less magazine, MIM slide lock, plastic sights, ugly laser marks, etc.

YMMV

GlackAttack
August 4, 2012, 04:51 PM
They dont have the same slide lock? What is MIM? Whats the difference?

Dreamliner787
August 4, 2012, 04:56 PM
They are almost indentical and the PM isn't worth the high price. The best value is the CM.

TennJed
August 4, 2012, 05:09 PM
I have a PM9, my wife a CM9.

I used to think that the CM9 was the better "value", but as time goes on - I think the PM9 is worth the extra money.

The CM9 has much sharper edges, one less magazine, MIM slide lock, plastic sights, ugly laser marks, etc.

YMMV
Do you happen to shoot lead of of them? I am curious to know if anyone owns both and can compare the leading difference (if there is any)

wow6599
August 4, 2012, 05:25 PM
Do you happen to shoot lead of of them?

No, although I do roll my own. Lots of Berry's bullets to break them in.
I will say though, I still shock myself with my PM9.....I shoot that little thing better than most full size 9's - crazy accurate, and very light on felt recoil.

Skylerbone
August 4, 2012, 05:26 PM
I bought my dad a CW9 and recently picked up a K9. Both are excellent, a C Series can be dehorned if need be (neither of us found it objectionable) and the front sight replacement is quite simple, actually easier than the P Series for an individual.

Don't let the slide stop material bother you, Kahr's implementation of MIM is excellent and as far as trigger mechanisms I don't believe there are significant differences between the two the OP is considering. The Elite Series is a whole nother level.

I honestly wouldn't recommend shooting lead through polygonal rifling ever, it isn't just lead build-up that increases pressure but the design of the rifling itself.

Best prices I've found on Kahr magazines: http://www.ivanhoeoutlet.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=43

fxstchewy
August 4, 2012, 06:15 PM
Guns are the same except MIM slide stop/release, sights, standard barrel and less detailed slide on the CM9, for a small carry sidearm the CM9 is perfect, kinda like a S&W 642 semi.

GlackAttack
August 4, 2012, 06:28 PM
So can anyone tell me why one would prefer the pm9 slide lock over the mim slide lock in the cm9? The price isn't a huge factor and the polygonal barrel, night sights almost sells it for me.

Ramone
August 4, 2012, 06:37 PM
I own a PM9, and have some experience with a CM9 (owned by a range buddy, have shot it, stripped it, cleaned it, etc.,).

The CM9 is a good value, no doubt, but the PM9 is worth the extra money. Getting to know the CM9 has not made me regret spending the extra for the PM9, and my buddy has expressed regrets that he didn't spend the extra.

Really, it just comes down to the PM9 being "nicer"- IMO, it is worth the extra <US$200.00 for something I carry on a semi-regular basis.

edited to add:

the slide stop is no biggy to me, and the CM9 shows every bit of the fit and finish of the PM9 (Kahr is excellent at this, IMX), just having less pretty added.

340PD
August 4, 2012, 07:24 PM
I went PM9 just because I could. Love that little sucker and I carry it pretty much daily. Night sights alone will add $100 plus to the CM9. You also get an extra mag with the PM9. Another $35-$40 bucks.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/BallerinavsQuarterback.jpg

Scimmia
August 4, 2012, 07:34 PM
That's about it. I think the PM slide is also 1/8" shorter.

Nope. The older PM9s have a 1/8" shorter slide, but it was changed a number of years ago.

I was in my LGS last weekend and looked at those two models. The counterman told me that the PM also has a superior trigger group (though I could not tell the difference between the two individuals I handled).

Kahr has a new trigger on the PM9s, but only on models with an external safety. It's a slightly shorter pull. The standard PM9 uses the same trigger group as the CM9.

They dont have the same slide lock? What is MIM? Whats the difference?

MIM is metal injection molding, a manufacturing process that's cheaper than machining. It's generally not as strong as a machined part, but breaking slide stops hasn't been a problem, so I see this an a non-issue.

The Elite Series is a whole nother level.

Just about every model Kahr makes now comes with the "Elite" trigger. It's the standard trigger on the PM and CM series.

GlackAttack
August 4, 2012, 08:24 PM
Thanks Scimmia, you cleared up a couple things I was wondering about.
Thanks 340PD for the accessories pic.
I think the PM9 will be my new baby.

Shipwreck
August 4, 2012, 08:47 PM
I realize this is off the mark - however... I had a PM9 for 2.5 years. I got a Shield about 2.5-3 months ago... I was in love. Sold the PM9 that first week - bought a 2nd shield since then too.

Less recoil than the PM9, and a better trigger IMHO... Worth a look if you can find one

GlackAttack
August 4, 2012, 08:57 PM
oops

wow6599
August 4, 2012, 09:06 PM
I can pocket carry my PM9, which is a huge plus. I haven't held a S&W Shield yet......but I know it's a little bit bigger. Can the Shield be PC'd?

Shipwreck
August 4, 2012, 09:11 PM
I have pocket carried my shield for 3 months now...

Here are some pis and comparison photos...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/pocket1.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/kahrshield2.jpg



PM9 on top of a shield:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/kahrshield1.jpg


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/doubleshield.jpg

Skylerbone
August 4, 2012, 11:21 PM
Actually $80.00 for Trijicon sights for the CW9 from Kahr, $27.50 for OEM magazines from my above link.

CW9 + night sights + second magazine = $506.50 (based on Bud's price for pistol)
PM9 with night sights (not standard) and second mag. = $682.00 (Bud's)
for a difference of $175.50

As far as the Elite trigger being standard on the PM Series with the external safety, Kahr's website lists the very same parts as a standard PM and without an E designation after part code #. Scimmia, could you provide more info for us? Would be great if it does include the upgrade as that is a rather spendy upgrade.

It's not a huge divide money wise but there is a price difference. I bought my K9 with night sights used for $351 after shipping just as I was gearing up to purchase a second CW9. That price for the steel frame made it even money and added night sights so I couldn't pass it up. Had I not caught that deal I would have happily lived with the CW. My other carries are an M&P 9c ($400 used) and a custom 1911 ($1,500 and counting) so money isn't my primary concern when choosing. I guess you can't go wrong either way...that Shipwreck has really got me wondering about the new Shield...

Enough rambling, lets have more pictures!

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=167507&d=1341375471

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134621&d=1295665205

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=162486&d=1334018136

wow6599
August 4, 2012, 11:28 PM
The Shield.....maybe. It looks a little bigger, and IIRC, it's about 4-5 ounces heavier.

Fishbed77
August 4, 2012, 11:37 PM
There is a lot of BS floating about at the local guns stores.

Also it is much easier to put night sights on the pm, according to my lgs.

Nope - Kahr offers a set of Trijicon night sights for the CM9 that are no more difficult to install than the PM9 sights.

The counterman told me that the PM also has a superior trigger group (though I could not tell the difference between the two individuals I handled).

Again - total BS. The PM9 and the CM9 use the exact same trigger group.

As far as I'm concerned, the only real benefit the PM9 offers over the the CM9 is the extra magazine. And that is most definitely NOT worth the $200 premium.

Scimmia
August 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
As far as the Elite trigger being standard on the PM Series with the external safety, Kahr's website lists the very same parts as a standard PM and without an E designation after part code #. Scimmia, could you provide more info for us? Would be great if it does include the upgrade as that is a rather spendy upgrade.

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear earlier, was trying to get the info up before having to leave.

The "Elite" trigger was first used on the K series pistols as an optional upgrade. It's smoother with less travel than the previous trigger and became standard on virtually all Kahr models about 10 years ago. The exception is the standard K series pistols which still use the old trigger, sometimes called the New York trigger as Kahr reported kept it around because that's what the New York Police wanted.

The new trigger they're putting on the PM9 with an external safety is known as the "Enhanced" trigger. It's brand new, literally coming out within the last month or two. You're seeing the same part number because they're still selling the older trigger group, as it's not a drop in upgrade on the older pistols.

wow6599
August 5, 2012, 01:13 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the only real benefit the PM9 offers over the the CM9 is the extra magazine. And that is most definitely NOT worth the $200 premium.

Do you own both? I do. I guess if you like your CCW to double as a shaving razor, then you might be right.

usp9
August 5, 2012, 01:18 PM
Here's a video showing the newest PM9 from Shot Show 2012. It has the "enhanced trigger" but the video only mentions it, doesn't explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_yw1-F0ZX0

Note the shooter sling-shot the slide to load. Yes, it does work if you don't ride the slide. I'm not sure the enhanced trigger guns have actually hit the gun shops yet. The safety has been out for a while and the two features are unrelated.

* The front sight difference on the PM vs. the CM is the dovetail cut that allows any sight to be fitted. The CM is limited to those couple of sights available.

* The PM can come all black. The CM is not available in black.

* The barrels are different.

IMHO, these three items, and the cost of the second mag, are the features that differentiate the two models. If the color and prefered sights are important then the PM is your gun. Personally I prefer polygonal barrels because they are easier to clean and last longer. If these features don't matter and you're happy with the CM feastures, then there's no reason to spend the money. On the other hand, if you want your carry gun a certain way, then the PM is the gun for you.

For a good deal look to this PM at BUD'S , a blemished model. I have a blemished K9 that is a joy, and I still haven't found the reason it was so marked. These guns are marked with a "B" on the trigger guard. In my case I bought a K9 with CT grips, Mepreo night sights and the elite trigger for less than $600. Deals can be had if you're willing to overlook a small flaw.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_51/products_id/411550391

Skylerbone
August 5, 2012, 04:10 PM
But that deal is $600 and no night sights.

340PD
August 5, 2012, 06:47 PM
To respond to the previous question about pocket carry Shield vs PM9. I do own both and I find the Shield to carry a lot larger in the pocket than my PM9. I will not purchase a pocket holster for this gun. I'm not saying it can't be done but is a noticeable difference from the Kahr. If I am wearing dress slacks I think the PM9 is marginal. My 340pd revolver carry's perfect in that category. I do not see a lot of difference when carrying IWB between the Shield and the PM9.

marcodo
August 5, 2012, 07:00 PM
I have had no issues with the cm9 and am not sure I needed any of the upgrades you get with the PM9. Not saying there isn't a set-up with the PM9, just saying I didn't need it and I was happy to save the difference for a pocket pistol

Fishbed77
August 5, 2012, 10:50 PM
Do you own both? I do. I guess if you like your CCW to double as a shaving razor, then you might be right.

wow6599,

It sounds like the correct question is do YOU have real-world experience with both?

I own a CM9. My father owns a PM9. I have shot both pistols back-to-back on numerous occasions. I am well aware of the differences and similarities between the two models.

You seem to be a bit ignorant of the actual extent of the extent of the differences between the slide of the CM9 and PM9. While the CM9 has a more angular slide (especially at the front, which is still nicely beveled), there are no sharp edges anywhere on the slide except for the front edge of the ejection port opening and the slide serrations. The PM9 shares these same edges.

Therefore, I can stand my my initial comments.

Skylerbone
August 5, 2012, 11:03 PM
Sounds like the OP will need to decide between two excellent pistols that are both within his price range. I love a good bargain myself but that has yet to keep me from owning multiple firearms in the $2,000+ range. Sometimes one speaks to you and another does not.

wow6599
August 5, 2012, 11:31 PM
wow6599,

It sounds like the correct question is do YOU have real-world experience with both?

I own a CM9. My father owns a PM9. I have shot both pistols back-to-back on numerous occasions. I am well aware of the differences and similarities between the two models.

You seem to be a bit ignorant of the actual extent of the extent of the differences between the slide of the CM9 and PM9. While the CM9 has a more angular slide (especially at the front, which is still nicely beveled), there are no sharp edges anywhere on the slide except for the front edge of the ejection port opening and the slide serrations. The PM9 shares these same edges.

Therefore, I can stand my my initial comments.


No, I don't really have any "real-world experience with both". I own them both, but I have to admit I'm afraid to shoot them (loud noises and all).

The PM9 has more melt to it than the CM9, giving the PM9 "softer" edges (especially the slide serrations). But, it's late..... and I don't feel like arguing.

I will leave you with an excerpt from a review Mas Ayoob did on the CM9, though I can't guarantee he has any real world experience either -

"From the moment we cleared the CM9 out of the box, we spotted what may be another cost cutting measure: less polish on the underside of the slide. Most Kahr slides work very smoothly. This one definitely grated along its track, making it a bit more difficult to run to the rear. Maybe not the best place to economize"

- Massad Ayoob, April / May On Target

ScottieG59
August 5, 2012, 11:58 PM
I see no reason to go with any discounted firearms. I would rather have a good Ruger than a cheapened Kahr. If money were tight, I would skip the CM series, but that is me. I do not buy often, but I stay with the quality product.

The MIM slide lock may be fine, but I do not know that. If it is as good, why not simply use it on the PM too.

I do not do plastic sights.

I save nothing when they take away a magazine. I will buy spares anyway.

Ultimately, whatever you prefer, it should be based on your priorities.

GlackAttack
August 6, 2012, 01:01 AM
I've pretty much had my mind set on the PM9 from the beginning, just wanted to hear what others have thought about them both, first hand. I'm hoping to find a black one with night sights, my lgs only has them in stainless for some reason. I think it is because the black ones are more expensive on the website, so they would have to mark it even higher than the $850 they were asking for the stainless. I think I will be online shopping for this one. :uhoh:

hardluk1
August 6, 2012, 03:52 PM
I own a cm9 and have range buddywith a pm9. Yes there are small difference's Not enought for me to care about. Beveled front edges are nice but does not help to clear it any quicker. Roll marks to lazer?? Triggers feel the same , accuracy as the same. Both are relieable as you can get. Guess I look at them like I would to 1911's. If a springfield proves to runs as well as a brand x for way less maoney . I would own the springfield. Same guy has 2 of the springers with over 10,000 rounds fired with only spring changes. Barrels are about shot out but still going bang evertime and still place's well in his matchs.

Spend your money on the model and brand that you want and stop whinn'n about small difference's.

Fishbed77
August 6, 2012, 04:20 PM
The PM9 has more melt to it than the CM9, giving the PM9 "softer" edges (especially the slide serrations). But, it's late..... and I don't feel like arguing.

I'm not arguing - only relating my factual experience.

Yes - the PM9 definitely has softer edges on the exterior of the slide (as I stated in my earlier post), but the CM9 (at least mine and all others I've handled) is FAR from a being a "shaving razor." The blockier slide of the CM9 is still very nicely finished and the chamfer cut into the front of the slide makes holstering no more difficult than the PM9.

What I find admirable is that Kahr, when reducing the machining operations to the slide to save cost, actually passed those savings to the consumer with the CM9, without sacrificing any of the function of the PM9. So many other companies "cut corners" with products and then pocket the money and charge the same price they've always charged.

"From the moment we cleared the CM9 out of the box, we spotted what may be another cost cutting measure: less polish on the underside of the slide. Most Kahr slides work very smoothly. This one definitely grated along its track, making it a bit more difficult to run to the rear. Maybe not the best place to economize"

Sounds like Ayoob (and possibly yourself?) got a bad example. There is no difference at all between the smoothness of racking the slide of my CM9 versus a PM9 (or MK9 with a steel frame).

Girodin
August 6, 2012, 04:48 PM
My CM9 does not have the rough underside or razor edges described above. It has one edge that is a little sharp, one of the top inner edges of ejection port. I literally had to run my hand all over the gun deliberately feeling around to try and find it. It is not a place I would likely every touch in carrying or operating the gun. AS to roughness it feels about like my K9s and my friends P9.

I got my CM9 for what I figured was a good price, $325. It is not quite as nicely made as my K9s but I am content with it. I have only put a few hundred rounds through it, but thus far it has been perfectly reliable and shoots well. I really like it for what it is. For the money I really like it.

skt239
August 6, 2012, 04:54 PM
Shipwreck,

What kind of pocket holster is your shield riding in?

Shipwreck
August 6, 2012, 04:59 PM
Shipwreck,

What kind of pocket holster is your shield riding in?

WRB pocket holster - I bought it at a gun show in Houston, but they are on the web if you google them..

My holster is actually my old Kahr PM9 holster... When I got the shield, I used the Kahr holster - only had to pop 2 stiches in the trigger guard area.

Its cut perfect otherwise... Very easy to use your fingers to push down on the holster while drawing the but. It's shaped perfectly for that.

I did order one specifically made for the Shield a week or so later. However, I have found that for the holster made for the shield -- the entire holster tends to come out with the gun. So, the WRB holster made for the PM9 is my preference...

Skylerbone
August 6, 2012, 08:18 PM
My 3 yr. old couldn't shave with this...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134503&d=1295496327

PapaG
August 6, 2012, 09:47 PM
When I'm not in my home police state, I carry a Kahr CW9. Thinner than a cell phone and pretty good with defense hp ammo.

If you enjoyed reading about "Kahr cm9 or pm9?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!