Which one of these full size pistols would you choose for "Home Defense?"


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el Godfather
August 5, 2012, 10:38 AM
Dear THR:
The question is in subject line.
Remember question is HOME defense specific. It does not factor in CCW possibility nor price is a factor. Please discuss your choice.
Thanks

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jblackfish
August 5, 2012, 10:43 AM
Do you mean WHAT full size pistol rather than "which one of these pistols...?" Which one of THESE full size pistols... implies that you've offered a specific choice of pistols to select from.

PRM
August 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
Hum, Choose from nothing - A choice that does not require thought or comparison. That's easy and novel.

el Godfather
August 5, 2012, 10:47 AM
The list of 4 is in the poll, gentlemen.

jblackfish
August 5, 2012, 10:49 AM
It didn't show up when I posted - not sure why. It did when I came back this time.

el Godfather
August 5, 2012, 10:50 AM
It should. Try refreshing your browser.

Carl N. Brown
August 5, 2012, 11:29 AM
I have kept a .45 1911 or a .40 H&K USP on the nightstand (with maglite, cell phone & fire extinguisher close by). Off-topic (revolvers) also have kept a Ruger security six or Rossi J-frame clone loaded with .38 +P.

wlewisiii
August 5, 2012, 11:31 AM
Glock. Reliable, accurate, no safety to have to remember under stress. Put a NY1 & a 3.5 connector in it as well to me but even without that, I'd still prefer the Glock for an auto in the home.

(I'd far rather have a S&W K frame with a 4" barrel but that's not on your list. )

CraigC
August 5, 2012, 12:57 PM
1911 or XD, 5" barrel and .45ACP either way.

towboat_er
August 5, 2012, 01:07 PM
None of the above.

Centurian22
August 5, 2012, 01:10 PM
None of the above: Springfield XD in your choice of caliber (I want a 9mm).

usp9
August 5, 2012, 01:11 PM
No bad choice there, but because I'm a HK fanboy, I'd take one of them in a heartbeat. The USP is the epitome of reliability, The P30 a work of ergonomic art, and I wish, (close eyes and concentrate hard), I wish, I had a MK23, or a MK24 for that matter.

I have a Sig P220, Glock 17 and a Springfield 1911, but I'd pass them over for a HK. A personal choice, nothing more.

RickMD
August 5, 2012, 01:15 PM
Any of them will work. I fail to see where any one has a significant advantage over the others or any other centerfire handgun for that matter. As long as it's .38 caliber or greater and reliable anything will serve the purpose.

tryshoot
August 5, 2012, 02:23 PM
I hate Glock, but have one and it is ugly. It has about 4 parts in it, takes 12 dollars worth of plastic to build and costs over 500$. BUT it shootable by anybody, one of the most reliable pistols ever made, and one of thebest home defense pistols ever made. Also you can buy anything for it. I'm trying to invent the can opener acc. for it now.

el Godfather
August 5, 2012, 02:41 PM
Usp 9
What is your reference to mk24?

jimbo555
August 5, 2012, 02:41 PM
None of the choices..4 inch revolver

Chevelle SS
August 5, 2012, 02:52 PM
5'' Kimber is my nightstand gun

Inebriated
August 5, 2012, 02:57 PM
I use a Glock 21, or 26 with the17+2 magazine.

browningguy
August 5, 2012, 08:00 PM
Whichever fits your hand and eye best, any of them would work, as would a Springfield XD, BHP, CZ etc. etc.

usp9
August 5, 2012, 08:36 PM
What is your reference to mk24?

The MK24 is the replacement for the MK23. We gun-nerd wanabes can buy a similar gun as the HK45ct.
Link to an article.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-weapons/hk45c-us-navy-seal/

Link to HK USA site.

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/hk45ct_general.asp

76shuvlinoff
August 5, 2012, 09:58 PM
5'' Kimber is my nightstand gun

Same here with a .38 in the drawer right below it. However if the dogs do their damn job I should have time to get to the 870.

berettaprofessor
August 5, 2012, 10:01 PM
I voted for 1911, but really none of the above; 92 or PX4 Beretta would be first choice; 15 or 17 in the mag, double action first shot.

wow6599
August 5, 2012, 10:07 PM
The OP's question - Which one of these full size pistols would you
choose

Apparently some members can't read, or choose not to........

To the OP, any one of the firearms you have listed would work, and work well. I guess I would vote for the Sig 220.

jdub3
August 5, 2012, 10:11 PM
I use a USP .45 for HD. Thinking about trading it in on a 1911 but its the first pistol I bought and I don't want to sell it.

Auto426
August 5, 2012, 10:18 PM
There's currently a 1911 in my nightstand but I would not be opposed to having a Sig 220 on there either, which may happen if I ever get around to buying one.

mf-dif
August 5, 2012, 10:56 PM
I dont own any of them so i cant say id be more accurate and fast than another. So id just picked the one id like try out the USP.

My current night stand gun is a vz61 Skorpion though.:D

Sheepdog1968
August 5, 2012, 11:12 PM
They should all be reliable. I'd go with whichever one feels best in your hand.

DylNger
August 5, 2012, 11:39 PM
There's such a wide range of 1911's I went with a P220. Well I went with a P220 a long time ago too. They are very accurate at more than just single room distances. Most 1911's are too of course but not all. And I think you listed so many Glocks you got a lot of extra response for those pistols. I don't have anything against the Glocks but IMO they are not on the same level as a P220.

rajb123
August 6, 2012, 08:50 AM
none of the above...

full sized pistols are hard to carry.... if this is for home defense, I'd pick a shotgun.... if it is for carry, I'd pick a pocket pistol...

Skribs
August 6, 2012, 12:58 PM
Of those, I would choose a Glock, because it fits my preferred style of pistol closest. My personal choice would be for a Springfield XDm or S&W M&P over a Glock, because of certain ambidextrous features those offer.

Gregg28
August 6, 2012, 01:11 PM
I would go for the Sig or the HK. I love 1911s and they are what I shoot 90% of the time, but in terms of features and arguably reliability I would leave the 1911 out. And DEFINITELY not a cheap 1911.

WoodchuckAssassin
August 6, 2012, 01:18 PM
Bottom line, the best home defense gun is the one you practice with the most. For me, it's the 1911. Many others will agree...but many others will disagree. There's really no ONE correct answer. Practice, Practice, Practice with your sidearm - be it at the range, or dry fires from the couch.

Nushif
August 6, 2012, 01:38 PM
When you say "Home Defense" (with quotation marks) what do you really mean would be my first question.

I voted for the Glock 17 type but myself, I have a CCO 1911 which I also carry. I voted for the full size Glock purely based on ease of ownership, upkeep and cheapness of of ammo. .45 is pricey and I assume "Home Defense" involves practice.

skoro
August 6, 2012, 01:47 PM
Having carried the 1911 in my military days and it being the platform I'm most familiar with, that's my choice. But I don't think you could go wrong with any of the choices in your poll.

Rusty Luck
August 6, 2012, 02:27 PM
XDM you pick the caliber. I chose 9mm.

fastbolt
August 6, 2012, 03:00 PM
I don't get all wrapped up around the axle when choosing a dedicated defensive pistol. Doesn't matter whether it's carried on my hip or available for use when I'm at home. It's a handgun.

The mindset, skillset, knowledge of practiced tactics & the relevant laws and the experience of the user of the firearm, being employed as a dedicated defensive weapon, are probably of greater concern than the specific choice of equipment.

So ... which one would you select, and how well can you safely, accurately and effectively use it ... especially in an unexpected dynamic, chaotic, rapidly evolving deadly force situation, occurring in a confined area, and probably occurring under reduced/dim light conditions and where family members may be at risk?

Life presents us with choices and consequences.

kyletx1911
August 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
.45 1911s all day usually my carry one 4 depends on what i carry that day. doubles as my night stand gun

foghornl
August 6, 2012, 07:42 PM
My "Bedside Table Companion" is a Springfield Armory GI-45

YJake
August 6, 2012, 07:46 PM
(I'd far rather have a S&W K frame with a 4" barrel but that's not on your list. )

I've had several of the guns listed in the poll but a S&W Model 10 sits on my night stand currently.

Although, a double barrel shotgun rests between the bed and nightstand as a first choice.

-Jake

oneounceload
August 6, 2012, 08:26 PM
Glock 17 with the 33 round G18 magazine - works well

FMF Doc
August 6, 2012, 11:02 PM
I like the sig for a coule of reasons.
-There is no safety to forget to disengage at 2am when something goes bump.
-If you have time, you can cock it to SA for a precission shot.
-If you shoot a suspect, you can then put it back to DA by dropping the hammer, to
help prevent an AD while still holding an intruder at gunpoint, if necessary.
-Many have rails...a must for me for home defense pistols. I like a light on mine.

Jed Carter
August 7, 2012, 06:04 AM
For years my home defense pistol was a SIG P226, went to a Glock G17 so I could add a Surefire X400 light / laser.

mljdeckard
August 7, 2012, 03:13 PM
The one I shoot and handle best.

kcshooter
August 7, 2012, 03:21 PM
My HD gun is a 1911 with a TLR-3.

I have the Mossberg and AR quickly accessible right under the bed in a double case, but the handgun is the go-to when there's a bump in the night.

jp3
August 7, 2012, 04:28 PM
1. Ithaca 37 .12 Ga. Defense
2. Baer TRS w/ .230 Gold Dot

Ala Tom
August 7, 2012, 04:32 PM
I would not select any of them. I did select a S&W M&P 40 full size for my home defense gun. I later bought a Ruger SR40C as a potential CC gun though I have decided not to CC as a normal activity. They both use the same IWB holster and the Ruger makes a smaller bulge. I carry both guns in a two-compartment soft case that is near me as I sit now at home. But I would draw my Ruger because that has a safety which is ON while it is in the bag. I have trained to take off the safety as I draw the gun before I put my finger on the trigger. I can shoot either with the same accuracy.

There will soon be changes in my HD gun. I will add a combo laser sight/white lite. I will also change caliber to a .357 SIG, probably by a barrel swap in the M&P 40.

Striker
August 7, 2012, 04:49 PM
I don't get all wrapped up around the axle when choosing a dedicated defensive pistol. Doesn't matter whether it's carried on my hip or available for use when I'm at home. It's a handgun.

The mindset, skillset, knowledge of practiced tactics & the relevant laws and the experience of the user of the firearm, being employed as a dedicated defensive weapon, are probably of greater concern than the specific choice of equipment.

So ... which one would you select, and how well can you safely, accurately and effectively use it ... especially in an unexpected dynamic, chaotic, rapidly evolving deadly force situation, occurring in a confined area, and probably occurring under reduced/dim light conditions and where family members may be at risk?

I concur with fastbolt.

I own all of the handguns listed, except for the the HK varients (sorry usp9 :D ) and am comfortable in my ability to safely and effectively minipulate any of them. So my answer boils down to the one I'm carrying at the time.

allaroundhunter
August 7, 2012, 04:54 PM
1911. Easy choice.

Eventually I will have my Nighthawk GRP......eventually......

Kahuna5
August 7, 2012, 04:56 PM
I voted for the .45 but I would probably just use my shotgun for home defense

allaroundhunter
August 7, 2012, 04:58 PM
I voted for the .45 but I would probably just use my shotgun for home defense

You do realize there are several .45 ACP choices, right? Just saying that you "voted for the .45" doesn't say much.

The Glock 21 from choice A is a .45 ACP; the Sig P220 from choice B is a .45 ACP; and the HK USP comes in .45 ACP and the MK 23 is a .45 ACP (both from choice C)

45_auto
August 7, 2012, 06:41 PM
I hate Glock, but have one and it is ugly. It has about 4 parts in it, takes 12 dollars worth of plastic to build and costs over 500$.

You do understand that steel currently costs about 10 cents/pound, and aluminum is about 50 cents/pound? The raw material costs of ANY pistol you buy are a very insignificant part of the total cost.

Have you priced the cost of a mold and injection molding machine lately to turn that $12 worth of plastic into a Glock? It'll make the tooling and machinery to turn your $5 worth of metal into a $1000 pistol look cheap.

miles1
August 7, 2012, 08:54 PM
Voted "None"

357 revolver will fit your needs for HD IMHO

But if its gotta be a semi-auto then............ XD45 for the win!

Stevie-Ray
August 7, 2012, 09:07 PM
.45 ACP 1911, my current EDC is also my nightstand gun.

kyletx1911
August 7, 2012, 09:13 PM
one of 4 the other is getting a trigger job:D:D

benzy2
August 7, 2012, 11:59 PM
If you knew the pistol was reliable and you were competent with it I'd take any of them. i seem to fall into the category that trusts today's 9mm loads to work well and would rather have a few extra in a mag as my trade off. Can't blame a guy who goes with a .45 but with what I've seen out of the better defensive stuff available today you don't give much up with a 9mm and a good load. Having 17-20 rounds sounds good to me. If it's home defense you don't need to worry about auto glass penetration issues. I'd more look at what a round does after 2, 4, or 6 layers of sheet rock as well as how many it takes to stop a round. As much as my first goal is to come out alive, my very close second is to not put anyone innocent in danger as well so finding a proper load is key importance, more so than the pistol or caliber, at least for me.

PabloJ
August 8, 2012, 02:10 AM
Dear THR:
The question is in subject line.
Remember question is HOME defense specific. It does not factor in CCW possibility nor price is a factor. Please discuss your choice.
Thanks
If you have the $ the H&K Mk23 has two advantages: it will cycle flawlessly with subsonic ammo and comes with barrel threaded for suppressor. SIG and FNH also offer guns so furnished but I'm not sure how those would cycle with reduced velocity ammo for use with suppressor which makes great deal of sense in HD scenario.

TreeDoc
August 8, 2012, 03:11 AM
Have had several nightstand guns and finally chose the glock 17. I like the 9mm, lower flash, recoil and noise, of course even a 22 will be loud inside a house. No safety to mess with, capacity and light attachment seemed to me to be a perfect in house combo. Girlfriend can shoot it as well.

iMagUdspEllr
August 8, 2012, 05:50 AM
Glock could potentially be the best (IMHO) because there is no safety to worry about or a 10lb trigger pull standing in your way of firing the gun when you need to. Glocks also have no magazine capacity problems at all. The trigger isn't as good as the others mentioned but it is perfectly serviceable especially if it is broken in and/or the pull is lightened via aftermarket parts. However, Glock falls to the bottom of the pile if the ergonomics/trigger pull don't work for you. Bad ergonomics = bad shooting.

H&K and Sig both have magazine capacity over a 1911 (even with a 10 round extended magazine). And, they have better ergonomics than Glocks. Some people find H&K and Sig grips to be too thick depending on the model and caliber (which is why many people like the 1911). H&Ks and Sigs are TDA. I hate TDA guns. But, if you don't mind the DA first-pull then it is superior to a 1911 where you have to remember to flick the safety off. Some people scoff and say that is a training issue. I agree. But, no one is perfect and you can forget (Murphy's Law). If you don't mind using a safety H&K generally rises above Sig (IMHO) because you can carry H&Ks condition one (unlike most Sigs... accept for maybe a P220 SAO). So H&Ks and the P220 SAO are at least the same (safety wise) as a 1911 and they have equal or higher capacity. They are thicker, though.

The 1911 is at the bottom of the pile... unless Glocks are too blocky and H&Ks and Sigs are too thick (then 1911s are at the top). A sweet trigger and good ergonomics can't excuse the low capacity (and don't forget the safety). A 1911 is only justified if you can't shoot the other types mentioned well (because then, of course, capacity doesn't matter).

Its too bad they can't make a striker fired pistol with a 1911-like trigger/ergonomics. I suppose that is why the XD(M) was made.

Note: I do not consider an XD(M) trigger to be remotely on-par with a 1911 trigger. But, its trigger is better than a Glock trigger and it has better ergonomics than a Glock.

Girodin
August 8, 2012, 09:39 AM
If you have the $ the H&K Mk23 has two advantages: it will cycle flawlessly with subsonic ammo and comes with barrel threaded for suppressor. SIG and FNH also offer guns so furnished but I'm not sure how those would cycle with reduced velocity ammo for use with suppressor which makes great deal of sense in HD scenario.

So the MK23 chambered it 45 ACP will function with subsonic ammo? How novel. I'll respectfully submit that all the other .45s listed will as well. Seeing as 230 grain .45 ACP loads tend to leave the barrel at about 900 FPS 45s tend to do real well with subsonic ammo.

147 grain 9mm loads in the others shouldn't be an issue either.

H&K and Sig both have magazine capacity over a 1911 (even with a 10 round extended magazine).

You may want to be a little more percise in what you are writing. One of the sigs in the poll is a Sig P220, remind my the magazine capacity of that gun.

they [Sig and HK] have better ergonomics than Glocks.

Without getting into what exactly you mean by "better ergonomics," I'll simply note this is opinion at best and very far from some fact that is per se truth for everyone.

A sweet trigger and good ergonomics can't excuse the low capacity

Lets start by saying agruendo this is true and that more capacity per se equals a better choice for a HD pistol. Why have you limited your critiques and conclusions to the 1911? The same capacity critiques can be said about other pistols on the list. It seems you are really taking issue with the .45 ACP and merely pointing out a truism that generally speaking .45s are going to have lower capacity than 9mm. The P220 carries 10 rounds in its mag and the USP and MK23 12. A G21 gets you 13 (although there are extensions).

That said, I think it is worth looking at your underlying assumptions. I'm in the camp that believes one might as well have more ammo than less. That said, one is exceedingly unlikely to use 11 or even 9 rounds in a HD shooting. I tend to follow HD shootings out of both professional interests and personal interests (in terms of security and strategy and tactics issues). I cannot recall having ever seen a local (and by that I mean my whole state) HD shooting where that many rounds were fired. Could it happen, sure, is it likely enough that the 1911 or any of the others is per se an inferior choice? I would say no.

Your argument also fails to account for states with restrictive laws in which case the discussion is moot.

Lastly, you have spoken of 1911s capacity as being 10 rounds. The OP's poll states 1911 of ones choice in 45 ACP. Although they are not my cup of tea, that includes double stack guns which have 14 round magazines. Extended base plates can push that to 15.

In sum, IMHO given that I have never seen a HD shooting where one expended 11 rounds let alone 16 I think your statement that a 1911 is not justifiable is a bit much.

A 1911 is only justified if you can't shoot the other types mentioned well (because then, of course, capacity doesn't matter).

If one cannot shoot those guns well enough for practical defensive accuracy then the issue is not the guns it is the shooter and the excuses he or she is making for themselves. Sure people will have guns that they shoot better with, often ones that they have put in more time with. The notion that one just cannot shoot X or Y is rubbish and a commentary on the shooter. I'll readily admit I shoot most autos better than revolvers. That's because I don't shoot revolves much. When I put the time in to brush up on them guess what happens?

kcshooter
August 8, 2012, 10:00 AM
^What he said.


(and don't forget the safety)I never do.

Girodin
August 8, 2012, 10:02 AM
To answer the OP (although I typically avoid his " for discussion purposes only" threads) my ideal house gun would probably be a G17 equipped as follows:

Milled slide with RMR red dot

Degroat Nano. While it is not a super hard use can, nor as quite as much larger cans, that said, it adds very little size or weight, and with optional wipes and medium it should give effective enough suppression for the task at hand and the number of rounds that might be fired.

Surefire X300

Glock 18 33 round magazine.

Manny
August 8, 2012, 10:12 AM
I voted for a Glock 17 for simplicity of use & low maintenance. My personal bedside gun is either a G34 or G17L, variants of the base G17 that I shoot better due to the longer sight radius. I mount a weapon light on either and am GTG.

iMagUdspEllr
August 8, 2012, 01:39 PM
@Girodin:
I was making general statements about a very large and diverse list of pistols. That makes it difficult to make specific statements.

Thanks for reminding me about double-stack 1911s. I forgot about that in my original post and I must rack and stack these pistols again.

Lets start by saying agruendo this is true and that more capacity per se equals a better choice for a HD pistol.

I fail to see how having fewer rounds (of any caliber you choose) is better than having more rounds (of any caliber you choose). Having the option to fire more rounds before empty (even if it isn't always needed) is better than not having that option.

Your argument also fails to account for states with restrictive laws in which case the discussion is moot.
I did not take into account states that restrict magazine capacity. But, again, that was because I was speaking generally. But, even in those states this discussion is not moot. Ergonomics and simplicity of getting the mentioned firearms into action still play a role.

If one cannot shoot those guns well enough for practical defensive accuracy then the issue is not the guns it is the shooter and the excuses he or she is making for themselves. Sure people will have guns that they shoot better with, often ones that they have put in more time with. The notion that one just cannot shoot X or Y is rubbish and a commentary on the shooter. I'll readily admit I shoot most autos better than revolvers. That's because I don't shoot revolves much. When I put the time in to brush up on them guess what happens?

"Practical defensive accuracy" is too vague of a requirement in my opinion. But, I'm just assuming that if your hand just does not work with the frame of a certain model to the point it actually prevents you from achieving "practical defensive accuracy" then you should not use it. You are speaking as if everyone can reach the trigger and fit their hand to every single model that has been presented. That isn't remotely true. There is no amount of practice that can help you with a trigger you can't reach or a gun that doesn't fit in some other way. Some people have small hands. And, that isn't the shooter's fault. (I have small hands BTW).

All of the criticisms I mentioned in my first post still apply. But my new order is:

Glock is hard to beat with 30 round .45 ACP, 29 round .40 S&W, and 33 round 9mm magazines (those were the largest capacity I could find). Simplest to use.

Double-stack 1911s: 18 round .45 ACP, 24 round .40 S&W, and 28 round 9mm (not exactly true... the "9mm" magazines I found seem to be designed for .38 ACP, 9x21, or 9x23... not 9x19) magazines place double-stack 1911s in second place for capacity. Not as simple as a striker-fired pistol or a TDA pistol, but it has a higher capacity than the TDA's mentioned.

H&Ks and Sigs fight for third place because one might beat the other depending on caliber. They are simpler to use in their TDA variants. If you don't like TDA (like myself) you have the option of getting some variants that are capable of condition one like a 1911.

Single-stack 1911s: Lowest capacity. Nearly always have a safety (there are some DAO variants... which would make them simpler than TDA... but they lose in capacity so that is a moot point). But, they are the thinnest of the bunch. If the other pistols mentioned are too large/don't fit your hand/ have too long of a trigger reach, odds are, a 1911 will work great for you.

In restricted capacity states, where 10 rounds is your maximum magazine capacity. The order of simplest to use is:

Glock/H&K LEM/Sig DAK/DAO 1911s: No safety, same pull every time. (The Sig DAK trigger technically has two different trigger pulls, depending if you cock the hammer or not.) Not everyone's hand fits a Glock/HK/Sig. They are all bigger than single-stack 1911s. Not everyone likes these types of triggers, though they are the simplest. Not everyone can reach the trigger in condition two on the H&K LEM/Sig DAK/DAO 1911s.

H&K and Sig Sauer: TDA triggers are simpler to use than pistols with safeties (nearly all 1911s except for DAO variants). But they have two different trigger pulls and usually at least a decocker. So they are "technically" more complex than the first group of pistols. Not everyone's hand fits a HK/Sig. They are bigger than single-stack 1911s. Not everyone can reach the trigger or effectively pull the trigger in condition two. Not everyone likes the transition from DA to SA.

H&Ks, Sigs, and 1911s used from condition I: Don't forget the safety. If you never do, good for you. Not everyone is perfect like yourself. I don't forget to take the safety off on my 1911 either. I never have. But, I have seen three people that I know personally not realize that they have to take the safety off before they start firing with my 1911. And, I don't know if its possible for me to forget in a life or death situation (because I have never been in one). Single stack 1911s are thinner and, therefore, can fit more hands than the double-stack models mentioned.

Also, I suppose you can argue that condition 0 is simplest/easiest of all. *shrug*

Girodin
August 8, 2012, 03:16 PM
I fail to see how having fewer rounds (of any caliber you choose) is better than having more rounds (of any caliber you choose). Having the option to fire more rounds before empty (even if it isn't always needed) is better than not having that option.

Your original argument was not that it is better. As stated above I agree with that general proposition. Rather, you argued that capacity was a problem and that it was unjustifiable to choose a lower capacity gun. Those are not propositions I agree with. There is a difference between better on paper and something that is even remotely likely to ever matter in the real world.

Ergonomics and simplicity of getting the mentioned firearms into action still play a role.

I was of course saying that the discussion of ammo capacity is largely moot in restricted states. Discussion of "ergonomics" (you've not explained how you are defining that term, it can have a very specific definition but is often used loosely at best or how you are measuring or accounting for it) is of course still relevant. I will assume, and correct me if I am wrong, that when you say ergonomics you are referring to the comfort of the gun in hand the ability to comfortably and easily reach and manipulate the controls and that sort of thing. If that is the case, discussion of "ergonomics" might still be relevant but it is also so individual that you or I attempting to tell someone what is more or less "ergonomic" for them is laughable at best and basically useless. An attempt to make a baseless general statement about each the pistols is of equal value. It would be akin to me stating what make model, and perhaps even size of running shoe is most ergonomic.

Discussion of most simple to use is something that is more prone to making objective statements and observations. That said, its not exactly like any of them are terribly complicated. I think you have made far to much of external safeties for example. Manual safeties, over a great many years, have not proven too difficult to use in combat under stress. Every military rifle I know of has one. Training eliminates the need to "remember" to take of the safety. Adequate training ingrains it into muscle memory. Much as I don't have to remember to bring a jab right back to my face after I throw it for example. It becomes essentially automatic. You also fail to account for the advantages of a manual safety. If someone totally unfamiliar with your gun is able to get the gun with intent of using it against you, that manual safety might buy you the time needed to take life saving action.

As a final comment, I simply note that the OP's question was not which is better for most people, or for himself, etc. Rather it is which would you choose.


Out of curiosity which guns above do you think someone just isn't going to be able to reach the trigger on. I do not own all of the models above, I don't have each of those glocks, I don't have both of sigs, I don't have every 1911 variant known to man, nor any of the HKs. However, I have now or have owned multiple glocks, sigs, and 1911s and have handled and shot even more and have notable time with all the guns save the MK23 (which why anyone would get it (for a gun to be used) over the HK 45 today is mystery but I digress). With perhaps the exception of the Mark 23 there is not one that if you could shoot the others you just are not going to be able to shoot.

Yes fit matters but people REALLY overstate I can't shoot X or Y. A DE in 50AE is not a gun that fits me all that well. Its too big. I can still shoot it and hit things. I always felt like my sig was a bit too thick but I can still shoot it rather well (at least in relative to my shooting). Not only can I but all the girls I've ever dated, most of which have been about 5'5" and weighed 110 lbs have been able to shoot all of those guns. Admittedly in an extreme case a gun could be truly unworkable for someone. That exists much less often than you hear about fit. Furthermore, when people talk about fit they are often referring to grip angle etc etc.

If you care i can get into what I mean by reasonable practical accuracy, perhaps in a separate thread. I was deliberately vague in that I didn't want to derail the thread and I'm sure other people have other standards than I do. Simply put I am referring to a level of speed and accuracy that I find acceptable if the intent is defensive shooting. I would assume my standard is probably going to get criticism as being too high not too low. I also do not think it is the one true standard, just mine and what I am comfortable with.

sargents1
August 8, 2012, 03:19 PM
I voted Glock 17, 22, 20, 21.
- Magazine capacity
- Rail for light/laser
- Easy to find night sights for
- No Manual safety to forget.
- Reasonable price.

You can't go wrong.

iMagUdspEllr
August 8, 2012, 08:25 PM
If you have a larger capacity pistol that works just as well for you than a lower capacity pistol it is not advisable to use the lower capacity pistol.

I am using ergonomics in a way that means: If you can reach all of the controls (especially the trigger) AND easily/properly manipulate said controls, the pistol will work for you from an ergonomic standpoint.

Ergonomics can easily be objectively discussed (I just did it). Just like I can point out that a size 13 shoe might be too big for someone, I can point out that a double action trigger pull on a particular pistol might be too long for their finger.

But I never went that far. I put highest capacity on top. Then I said that some people have certain ergonomic problems with each group of pistols and those issues might knock those pistols out of the running for you.

I'm not making too much of anything. If I don't talk about what is different then all of these pistols might as well be the same pistol. So am I allowed to compare simplicity of use or am I supposed to consider them all the same?

Reaching the trigger isn't good enough. Being able to form a proper grip on the pistol and place the middle of the pad of the forefinger on the face of the trigger are required, though.

I, personally, can't reach any TDA trigger in DA. I need the smallest back strap on a gen 4 g19 with a flat faced trigger to comfortably reach the trigger (glocks are kinda blocky). I need thinner 1911 grips than comes standard in most single stack 1911s and I need the traditional short trigger, too. But that is just me. Which is why I said if the ergos don't work for you then you should move down the line (from most to least capacity).

Do you see where I'm coming from? I'm sorry for being unclear earlier.

FMF Doc
August 8, 2012, 09:27 PM
1911. Easy choice.

Eventually I will have my Nighthawk GRP......eventually......
It would be a shame to relegate it to just home defense. That is a pistol designed for taking a fight to an enemy in far away distant lands...but at least you would have probably the best for home defense. Wish I could afford one.

jackblack86
August 8, 2012, 09:50 PM
I voted Glock 17, 22, 20, 21.
- Magazine capacity
- Rail for light/laser
- Easy to find night sights for
- No Manual safety to forget.
- Reasonable price.

You can't go wrong.
another glock vote for the same reasons most protection for money

mavracer
August 8, 2012, 10:04 PM
Can't vote as there's no option for multiple choice. There's a P226 on momma's side and a FNP45 on mine.

allaroundhunter
August 8, 2012, 11:14 PM
It would be a shame to relegate it to just home defense. That is a pistol designed for taking a fight to an enemy in far away distant lands...but at least you would have probably the best for home defense. Wish I could afford one.

Don't worry, I would carry it everywhere that I could. Granted, I'm not going looking for a fight, but it won't spend all of its time on my nightstand.

Sent from my HTC One X

RmB
August 8, 2012, 11:16 PM
That poll is unfinished, therefore I will not vote. You forgot Smith and Wesson's M&P line of pistols.

RetiredUSNChief
August 8, 2012, 11:27 PM
Of the choices presented in the poll, I choose my Colt 1991A1.

Mainly because I'm a "weapon of opportunity" guy, and I don't have any of the others.

;)

FAS1
August 8, 2012, 11:32 PM
My Gen2 G17 has been my HD gun for many years now.

http://www.fas1safe.com/images/12421583724691669415992.jpeg

Mr. T
August 9, 2012, 02:29 AM
I would select none of your options; I would choose the Springfield XD in .45 ACP.

vba
August 9, 2012, 12:41 PM
The gun I trust the most is my Colt 1991A1, lightly customized by me. It does not fail with every round I've tried including my 255 grain cast bullets with 5.0 grains of W231 or my Federal 230 grain Hydrashocks.

ritepath
August 9, 2012, 08:26 PM
P220 all steel.

MTMilitiaman
August 9, 2012, 08:42 PM
Glock. I have a 20 so that makes the most sense. I shoot my G19 better so to do it over again and considering only home defense, I'd probably get a G34, or of the models mentioned, a 17. The 20 adds the versatility of the 10mm Auto, which makes it better for medium game hunting or as a hiking pistol for potential use against cougars and black bears, but I think most people probably shoot the 9mm better because it has lower recoil and is less snappy. So if I didn't have to worry about defending myself against Bigfoot, I'd probably opt for the 9mm because I get more confidence from proficiency than foot pounds of energy. Your results may vary.

S&W620
August 9, 2012, 08:45 PM
I've owned a few glocks, a couple of 1911's a couple of HK's and a Sig.

I still own a P226 and a P30. If forced to choose, I'd go with HK, easily.

Most folks are turned off to the idea of spending nearly 900 bucks on a polymer pistol, but the P30 is truly the most ergonomic pistol on the market and built like a friggin tank.

pasky2112
August 10, 2012, 05:09 AM
Glock 20: 16x 165g XTP's @ 1400 fps...laser + TLR1= BANG BANG and back to sleep. Let the dogs lick up the mess. :evil::evil:

Cocked & Locked
August 10, 2012, 12:39 PM
Dear THR:
The question is in subject line.
Remember question is HOME defense specific. It does not factor in CCW possibility nor price is a factor. Please discuss your choice.
Thanks

el Godfather...I'm just curious as to what you do with the info you obtain from your various polls and threads similar to this one. Do you apply that info to your decision making regarding purchase and/or application of a specific firearm?

Thanks in advance if you choose to reply.

To answer this poll question choice I would pick the Glock 20 full of 180 grain Gold Dots. I'm a 1911 fan but my preference for home defense is a handgun that one just needs to pull the trigger to make it go bang...no safety too disengage.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/16805181/259406841.jpg

el Godfather
August 10, 2012, 12:39 PM
I have noticed that many of the members talk about velocity, but I seldom hear of energy. Why is that?

el Godfather
August 10, 2012, 12:44 PM
CL
Mostly the information is used to make informed choice in buying a firearm. Thankfully, application of firearm has not become a concern. I keep good defensive preperation, but my interest is mostly collecting and shooting at range some times.

Apart from that, some of the discussions here have tremendous amount of expertise in them. They become very useful in coffee table arguments that we gun enthusiasts generally get into.

What do you do with information, may I ask? Thanks.

iMagUdspEllr
August 10, 2012, 01:08 PM
@el Godfather:
People talk about velocity and mass which help you calculate energy. If they are only talking about velocity they are leaving a major component out of the equation (mass). An increase in velocity adds more energy to a bullet than an equal increase in mass because kinetic energy = (1/2)*m*v^2

Cocked & Locked
August 10, 2012, 01:33 PM
CL
Mostly the information is used to make informed choice in buying a firearm. Thankfully, application of firearm has not become a concern. I keep good defensive preperation, but my interest is mostly collecting and shooting at range some times.

Apart from that, some of the discussions here have tremendous amount of expertise in them. They become very useful in coffee table arguments that we gun enthusiasts generally get into.

What do you do with information, may I ask? Thanks.

Thanks for your reply.

What do I do with info? I store some of it in my memory...share some of it...learn from some of it...and view some of it as "fluff" not worthy of (for me) trying to remember. :scrutiny:

And I look for any excuse to post a picture. :)

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/9381895/402336148.jpg

el Godfather
August 10, 2012, 01:59 PM
Yes I did notice you take excellent pictures. Something I cant do even when I tried.

Whats the collection value of the Colt Commander in your last picture if its in 9mm?

el Godfather
August 10, 2012, 02:01 PM
Thank you IMag.

C0untZer0
August 10, 2012, 02:06 PM
The Mark23 has some extensive testing behind it. Very reliable handgun, and built to handle +P. It also has enough mass to make firing +P cartridges manageable.

keithbayne
August 10, 2012, 02:10 PM
any of them. no wrong answer.personaly, i am a 1911 man,but thats just me

Cocked & Locked
August 10, 2012, 02:13 PM
Whats the collection value of the Colt Commander in your last picture if its in 9mm?

If in the same cosmetically challenged condition probably $550-$650 if all is functionally fine. Maybe more but no less unless one found a real deal. Depends on how high the regional "want factor" is...I'm just guessing here as I'm no expert. :scrutiny:

AWorthyOpponent
August 10, 2012, 02:51 PM
Currently have a Glock 17 next to the bed, but there's also a Mossberg 500 underneath. Depends on the situation. If someone is breaking in for sure, Mossberg it is...if I just hear something and want to check it out, Glock comes with...

C0untZer0
August 10, 2012, 03:28 PM
I don't like the idea of having a Glock as a nightstand gun. For me personally, I don't like the possibility of reaching for the Glock half-asleep and getting my finger in the trigger gaurd.

That can be mitigated by always having it in a holster that covers the trigger gaurd.

I have an HK P7M8 nearby, in a case, so I'm not worried about pulling a trigger while I'm half-asleep.

ExTank
August 10, 2012, 03:28 PM
I chose 1911, as it's the handgun type I am most familiar with due to carrying one as an issue weapon in the Army for 6 years.

el Godfather
August 10, 2012, 04:39 PM
CL
I meant the value in collection not monetary value. Perhaps I should phrased question better.

Cocked & Locked
August 10, 2012, 04:45 PM
Oh...misunderstood here. If it was NIB or in 95%+ condition I would value it highly in a collection. Then I would probably sell it and it would be out-of-collection.

el Godfather
August 10, 2012, 06:41 PM
Ok thanks.

saturno_v
August 10, 2012, 07:45 PM
In my nightstand there is a Bersa Thunder 40 (full size) which is a DA/SA so I guess I could have voted SIG in the poll..... :)

On my wardrobe there is a Mossberg 500 with its "home defense duty" 18.5" barrel...loaded with #00 buckshot.

If I stay downstairs at night night for a while watching TV or working on my computer I have my Kel Tec P-11 in my pocket.

I'm thinking about the possibility of having another shotgun or full size pistol "on the ready" downstairs....if it would be really overkill....

Soldiernurse
August 10, 2012, 11:08 PM
The OP's question -

Apparently some members can't read, or choose not to........

To the OP, any one of the firearms you have listed would work, and work well. I guess I would vote for the Sig 220.
"I" choose none of the listed four, thank you very much.

On my nightstand is a PPQ .40 w/X2 mounted light.

Soldiernurse
August 10, 2012, 11:11 PM
In my nightstand there is a Bersa Thunder 40 (full size) which is a DA/SA so I guess I could have voted SIG in the poll..... :)

On my wardrobe there is a Mossberg 500 with its "home defense duty" 18.5" barrel...loaded with #00 buckshot.

If I stay downstairs at night night for a while watching TV or working on my computer I have my Kel Tec P-11 in my pocket.

I'm thinking about the possibility of having another shotgun or full size pistol "on the ready" downstairs....if it would be really overkill....
Cool! I have the 500 Mosberg JIC Cruiser shotgun. Soon I'll add ATI Buttstock.

golden
August 11, 2012, 04:29 PM
I am a 9m.m. fan, so it would be either of GLOCK 17 (my choice would be the GLOCK 19) or the SIG 226. I carried both of them on duty and in the end, stuck with the GLOCK 17 based on its lighter weight.
You really notice the weight difference when you are approaching the 10th hour at work, more so when you hit 12 hours and so on.

They were both reliable, accurate and worked as advertised with the SIG 226 being more accurate.

I carry an H&K P-2000 on duty and while it works fine, I just do not see why it should cost $300.00 more than the GLOCK 17 and at least a $100.00 more than the SIG 226.

I would only use a 1911, if I could not find a BERETTA, GLOCK, SIG, SPRINGFIELD ARMORY or WALTHER to use. The single action trigger with cocked and locked safety has no appeal to me.

Jim

USAF04
August 11, 2012, 06:50 PM
For home defense I prefer a 12 ga w/OO buckshot. Saying that, I do keep my S&W 1911PD .45 ACP, (loaded w/Hornady 185 gr FTX), & SureFire lite on the night stand. {:{)}

Dr.Rob
August 11, 2012, 07:01 PM
I am not a fan of DA/SA pistols.

I don't own a Glock or an HK of any kind.

I'd pick a Colt Government Model or Lightweight Commander. I have them in .45 but wouldn't be adverse to 38 Super.

Girodin
August 12, 2012, 02:09 AM
I don't like the idea of having a Glock as a nightstand gun. For me personally, I don't like the possibility of reaching for the Glock half-asleep and getting my finger in the trigger gaurd.

You could keep it holstered. If you are one of the people that thinks a scenario in which you have no time to pull the gun out the holster but that you could just pick it up and shoot is likely enough to preclude that option then you could use a Raven concealment vanguard type holster and tie it off to something.

http://www.ravenconcealment.com/image/cache/data/Vanguard1260-500x500-500x500.jpg

easyg
August 12, 2012, 03:30 AM
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/allenXdog/photobucket-6036-1332454720498.jpg

RBid
August 13, 2012, 03:39 PM
Of those, a Glock 17.

In the real world: none of the above.

My CCW is a Ruger SR9c, which is in a box next to me while I sleep. That would be what I would grab.

Rexster
August 13, 2012, 10:05 PM
1911; my choice is my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special. There are plenty of reasons I may want a .357 sixgun or double-column-magazine auto in other environments, but the 1911 rules at home. I am mandated to carry a DA pistol at work, and usually carry DA revolvers off the clock, but at home, there are early-warning systems that allow me to focus my mind on deploying a true battle pistol. Ammo capacity is less relevant, because I am near ample ammo, and other weapons. The 1911 grip frame, as sculpted by Baer, with a high-cut front strap where it meets the trigger guard, is a very good fit in my hands..

If I must fire indoors, the .45 ACP is gentler to my senses than the obnoxious .40 I am mandated to use at work, and certainly gentler than the magnums in my revolvers.

el Godfather
August 14, 2012, 03:30 AM
A suppressed 1911 or Mark 23 would be very gentle on ears indoors.

guyfromohio
August 14, 2012, 05:29 AM
Any are fine ..... except for the 1911. How can you really be sure that your $2k piece of fine machinery is really done breaking in?

allaroundhunter
August 14, 2012, 08:22 AM
A suppressed 1911 or Mark 23 would be very gentle on ears indoors.

Sigs are some of the best suppressor hosts available.....

Sent from my HTC One X

Girodin
August 15, 2012, 04:44 PM
How can you really be sure that your $2k piece of fine machinery is really done breaking in?

Shoot it a bunch and see if it proves reliable, the same as you would do with any other gun on the list before using it for self defensive.

Further, $2000 1911s (and many that are much cheaper) probably don't need any break in. Expensive 1911s are expensive because of their hand fitting of parts.

Rexster
August 16, 2012, 12:04 PM
Any are fine ..... except for the 1911. How can you really be sure that your $2k piece of fine machinery is really done breaking in?
My Les Baer TRS was purchased well before they cost that much, and it needed NO breaking-in. Yes, of course, it got fed 500+ rounds of hardball, then 200+ rounds of Hydra-Shoks, before I kept it loaded for serious purposes, because trust is earned.

AKMtnRunner
August 17, 2012, 02:56 AM
My XDm .40 with the 5.25" barrel. I can't imagine a better tool to have should I need it, or maybe it's just that I love sleeping next to my favorite gun.

seasalt
August 17, 2012, 11:32 PM
None of the above.

S&W m$P40.

el Godfather
August 19, 2012, 04:58 AM
The words 'which of these' means that the question is restricting your answer among the choices given to whatever reason. None of these does not help.

For example, if some is buying a vehicle and he has narrowed his choice between Explorer and Discovery, he asks your opion those two, but instead you render your thoughts on Blazer, which and others like that he has decided not to consider for whatever reason.

That said, give him the opinion of subjects requested or if you strongly feel that he should consider something else that he has omitted- give him that option with supporting reason. Simply stating your own preference while ignoring the question requested does not help.

Inebriated
August 19, 2012, 05:09 AM
A full sized Glock, specifically the Glock 21. That is about as good as a home defense handgun get's, in my opinion.

Reliable, 15 rounds of .45 ACP if using a +1 baseplate on the magazine (which I do), Gen 4's tend to fit most hands well, and cheaper than any of the other options.

tarosean
August 19, 2012, 05:31 AM
el Gf,

I think a poster in another thread hit the proverbial nail in the coffin...

EddieNFL
A simpler question would be, "What striker fired pistol do you own." Same poll results.

replace "striker fired" with whatever and that more than answers most polls here.. :)

I dont think I voted in the poll as I have No experience with HK other than putting some rounds throu a USP when they first showed up (early 90's?). I really liked a P30L last time I was in a LGS, but I need to fire one to gain an opinion other than the sweet ergonomics and balance.

My choice based on your list is either the P220 in 45acp or 1911. Two reasons.
A) *I* personally want an external safety on a gun laying around my home for HD. (young kids)
B) Inside the confines of my home, *I* cannot imagine a scenario where I would need more ammo capacity than the above provide. I dont live in some mansion with a Grand Entry Way or 50yrd hall ways. So any shot fired would be relatively close due to the layout of my home.

el Godfather
August 19, 2012, 08:36 AM
Great discussion sir. Thats what I meant

dondavis3
August 19, 2012, 01:35 PM
IMHO

Sig Sauer's are excellent guns.

Accurate / dependable and better looking than some of the other brands.

My Sig P226 X5

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigSauerP226X57.jpg

My P220 in .45

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigSauerP22045cal2.jpg

You might consider the P229 also.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigSauerP229.jpg

They come in 9mm / .40 & .45


:cool:

powder
August 19, 2012, 03:21 PM
The HD on my side of the bed is a Caspian.

The wife's side of the bed is a G17.

Pulling into the driveway HD, in the truck, is the old DOC 12 ga..


.and... then rotate some.

Knockdownpower
August 19, 2012, 08:50 PM
Glock 20 with surefire x300 on night stand now.

el Godfather
January 3, 2013, 12:57 AM
From thr poll results ir seems like people prefer century old 1911 over high cap polymers.

Inebriated
January 3, 2013, 01:03 AM
From thr poll results ir seems like people prefer century old 1911 over high cap polymers.

Surprising to me, actually.

iMagUdspEllr
January 3, 2013, 01:26 AM
@el Godfather: You are incorrect. The poll shows that 1911s have 183 votes. But, the Glocks, Sigs, and H&Ks numbers add up to 261 votes. Now, Sigs aren't polymer, but even if we remove those votes we have 191 votes between the Glocks and H&Ks.

@Inebriated: I like my 1911 because it has a sweet trigger, aftermarket support, and fits my hands well even though my fingers are on the short side. I'm not crazy about the 1911 because it does have a manual safety you have to always remember to deactivate.

Because the 1911 is easily adapted to many hands, has a great trigger, has an awesome history, looks good, and can easily be upgraded and repaired people swear by them.

I don't know about most people, but the two biggest things I run into when it comes to picking out a pistol are either it is too big for my hand (width) or the trigger reach is too long. The variety of grip panels and trigger lengths available for 1911s ensures you can always get it to fit you. And, it is worth getting it to fit you because the excellent trigger design permits the shooter to be accurate as possible.

I could go on for a while about the 1911. But, many people prefer other pistols because they accept double-stack magazines in smaller calibers that permit double the magazine capacity of a 1911 and with less recoil. Other designs also offer different safety mechanisms that keep the gun safe to handle without having to worry about a manual safety. The downside of other designs is that they usually have heavier and/or lower quality triggers than 1911 triggers. Many people feel a decrease in trigger quality is worth the increased magazine capacity, lower recoil, and alternative safety mechanisms offered by other designs.

Jaymo
January 3, 2013, 01:57 AM
Use whichever is most comfortable and reliable for you.

Luger_carbine
January 3, 2013, 02:03 AM
Assuming no shotgun :rolleyes:

Mark 23 with +P ammo

Some of those .45 +P designs penetrate to aproximately 15" and expands to aproximately .78" I think that's very good performance for an SD/HD round.

Robbins290
January 3, 2013, 05:45 AM
Sig p226 with gold dots. Did you realy need a poll to help you decide? Amy gun that goes bang will work. Go handle some and decide for your self. I never buy a gun with out handling it. Let alone, letting other people on a forum decide a firearm for me to choose a gun that is going to defend me, my wife, or my daughter.

el Godfather
January 3, 2013, 06:33 AM
iMag.. I dont agree with you. Votes for H&K and Sig Sauer do not really mean that if the choice was 1911 v Glock or anyother polymer, they will get all those.

H&Ks and Sig Sauers are higher end guns, and if anything, in their absense from voting option would "probably" result in divided votes in favor or perhaps 1911- just a guess unless someone can dare to post a thread directly addressing to this issue.

PabloJ
January 3, 2013, 07:09 AM
Dear THR:
The question is in subject line.
Remember question is HOME defense specific. It does not factor in CCW possibility nor price is a factor. Please discuss your choice.
Thanks
Your already own one of the very best called H&K 23. If you are the retired aerospace engineer that bought one I had on consignment I thank you very much. Never did get used to that big black "plastic toad".

I would say the very best is Glock 24.

meanmrmustard
January 3, 2013, 07:56 AM
Glock 19 wearing TLR-3

chriske
January 3, 2013, 10:02 AM
Sorry, I'd by far prefer a 4" S&W big bore, but if it HAS to be a full-size auto, I'd opt for BHP.

308win
January 3, 2013, 10:32 AM
S&W 4506. Large steel handgun. Accurate, reliable, and there are a lot of police trades (or used to be) that can be had for a good price (or could have been prior to the current frenzy).

gmh1013
January 3, 2013, 01:01 PM
none of the above....Ruger SP 101 Smith Model 19 or Colt Diamondback

el Godfather
January 4, 2013, 03:01 PM
Gmh.... Your posting in wrong section. This is not wheel gun discussion forum.

PabloJ
January 4, 2013, 04:24 PM
Looking over cost, capacity, ease of use from those listed I would pick G21. I know MK 23 could handle subsonic JHPs not sure if G21 is capable of doing that. That is great lower noise/flash signature ammo for HD.

iMagUdspEllr
January 4, 2013, 07:43 PM
el Godfather: You are right. Votes for the H&K and Sig Sauer do not really mean that if the choice was 1911 v Glock or another polymer, they will all choose polymer.

But, that isn't what I said. I said that the poll shows that the majority of people prefer a high capacity pistol instead of a 1911.

We could talk about how the votes would be distributed if Sigs didn't exist, but they do, and people voted for them. So that shows that people prefer the high capacity pistols over the 1911.

Your stipulation was that people prefer 1911s over high cap polymers. So, initially I showed that the total votes between the Glocks, Sigs, and H&Ks was higher than votes for 1911s. Then, because you chose to compare the 1911 to polymer guns only (which ignores the Sig votes) I showed that the votes between the Glocks and H&K (all that was left) was still more than the 1911.

Your point is that if people couldn't choose Sigs some of them might choose 1911 which would add to their votes. But, that isn't the case, people can go buy Sigs and the votes show that people prefer other higher capacity guns over 1911s.

el Godfather
January 6, 2013, 03:16 PM
Well that remains to been seen in future.

However, it is certain that 40% of the people do prefer 1911. That might not be simple majority of votes but a pretty damn high percentage I am afraid. And dont forget we have high cap 1911s as well in case of one on one poll.

TxBobS
January 6, 2013, 06:25 PM
Glock for sure. Gotta love necro-posting. :)

TarDevil
January 7, 2013, 02:15 PM
OK, I now have a solid preference (though not on the list)... SR45.

SDGlock23
January 7, 2013, 02:27 PM
I'd add the G34 and G35 to the list, then choose the G35 with TLR1s loaded with whatever form of awesome .40 ammo you can find.

hwmoore
January 8, 2013, 04:39 AM
I have a pit bull on the bed and a Glock 22 in the night stand I hope the glock and the dog together give me enough time to get to the 12 gauge. The 65 lb Pit will discourage all but the most determined intruders :)

RetiredUSNChief
January 8, 2013, 08:14 AM
I have a pit bull on the bed and a Glock 22 in the night stand I hope the glock and the dog together give me enough time to get to the 12 gauge. The 65 lb Pit will discourage all but the most determined intruders :)

Huh.

I have my wife in the bed.

Our dog is forward deployed in the den as part of our front line defenses.

:D

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