Appleseed question


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berettaprofessor
August 6, 2012, 05:09 PM
Thinking about doing an Appleseed with a new CZ452. I have ordered two 10 round mags (what the Appleseed website says to have), but will it be better to have more or can it reasonably be done with just 2 mags? Would I be better off using a semiauto, say a 10/22, for which I have oodles of mags but may not be as accurate?

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pikid89
August 6, 2012, 05:30 PM
Get 2 more mags in case your local shoot boss decides to do a rapid fire AQT, in which case you will need 4 ten rnd mags. A semi auto is not required, and the Appleseed AQT can be passed with a bolt action, and is actually based on the old army aqt that was shot with a stripper clip loaded 03A3. Just yesterday as an Orange hat with appleseed, i shot a rifleman score with my Ruger M77 .270 (barrel steaming in the rain and all lol)

One thing to practice is getting into the loop sling and see if you can work the bolt and change mags without getting out of position or at least being able to work the bolt and QUICKLY reaquire your position and NPOA (which is where your relaxed body in position naturaly aims the rifle)

pikid89
August 6, 2012, 05:34 PM
Fwiw i have yet to see a bone stock 10/22 at appleseed that couldnt shoot one hole groups at 25 yards (about 1/2" to 3/4" groups or 2-3 moa)
Bench rest groups are not required, anyone can shoot expert rifleman with groups no better than 4moa

chrome_austex
August 6, 2012, 06:25 PM
2 mags is actually enough. However, 4 would be ideal. (less pressure to fill the mags between stage breaks) Even a couple of 5-rounds mags will help if you can't or don't want to get 4x 10 rounders.

The autoloader 10/22 will be easier on the fast cadence strings (sitting), and will allow fewer breaks in position (no need to work the bolt), while the CZ's accuracy will be highly desirable in slow-prone, assuming you don't screw up NPOA shifting position to work the bolt.

Bring 'em both!

pikid89
August 6, 2012, 07:58 PM
Theres no reason you cant work the bolt fast enough in the seated stage with detatchable mags...i did it while hand stuffing 5 rounds at a time into the fixed box mag on my 270...instead of lookin at it with the attitude of wanting whatever is easier, go into it with the attitude "if i work hard and persist, i can do it, and will be that much better because of it." The whole do whatevers easier is the attitude that got america to where we are,...project appleseed exists to change that.

Dont get me wrong, using an auto is entirely and absolutley acceptable. learning to do it with the auto loader is still entirely commendable and still a tall order...but choosing the auto over the bolt just because its easier is not really a good justification, especially if you have the skills or are willing to learn the skills to work the bolt gun like a rifleman

Like the guy above said...bring both!

henschman
August 6, 2012, 08:35 PM
I am an Appleseed Shoot Boss. I tend to shoot a higher score with my CZ-452 Lux than I do with any of my semi-autos. I have 2 5-round mags, and they have gotten me by fine. For the type of COF we run around here (Oklahoma), 2 10 rounders would be plenty.

tech30528
August 6, 2012, 09:46 PM
1 average 235 on the AQT at 25M with my 10 22. I loaned it to a friend's daughter, she qualified with a 238. At 100 yards it will put 25 in a 4" circle in about 8 seconds.

One_Jackal
August 6, 2012, 09:51 PM
You don't have to wait for your bolt action to be empty to reload. I am no Appleseed Rifleman but I have shot my share of critters. When the shooting stops no matter how many rounds you have shot reload. I got into the habit of constantly reloading while shooting doves.

chris in va
August 6, 2012, 10:31 PM
All I had for the Appleseed was my CZ 527 and Saiga conversion. I highly recommend you get something semiauto with at least a ten round magazine. Skip the bolt action. You'll be doing rapid fire drills and changing a five round mag just hinders you.

Sheepdog1968
August 7, 2012, 01:57 AM
I've been to three Appleseeds and have brought three different rifles. I've had lots of fun and learned with all three. Bring what you own. You will be fine.

Caliper_RWVA
August 7, 2012, 07:45 AM
As an Appleseed instructor in Mi, two 10 round mag would be plenty. But to be sure, visit your states forum on the Appleseed forum. http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php You can most likely get a response from some of the people who will be instructing you.

Don't worry about the bolt action, plenty of people score Rifleman with one. Read this first though: http://www.frfrogspad.com/bolt.htm

The key to working a bolt action right is do not lift your elbow or cheek while cycling the bolt. Then time your breathing with cycling the bolt. Breathe in while opening the bolt, out while closing it. Put this together with everything else at Appleseed and your sights should naturally settle right back on the target as you exhale and you are set to begin the trigger squeeze. :cool:

Jeremy2171
August 7, 2012, 08:14 AM
Shoot Rifleman with an M1A or go home! :D

tech30528
August 7, 2012, 09:28 AM
I agree there should be two levels of Rifleman for Appleseed, 25M and full distance. Level 1 for 22LR or 25M, Level 2 for full range. 22LR has an obvious advantage of very little recoil and trigger flinch. Plus there is no windage to speak of at 25M.

BTW a little trick for your mag changes: on a mag change round with 2 and 8 fire your first shot then change mags. Your second round is already chambered and then you don't have to work the bolt for your second mag.

kestak
August 7, 2012, 10:42 PM
After teaching many Appleseeds, I will go a little bit differently than my brothers in Liberty. Not that they are wrong at all.
-3 mags at least in case one of your mag malfunction. 3 is good, 4 is great.
- if you can, bring 2 rifles. You have no idea how many people we have that got major malfunction with their rifle. Many shooters never shot a whole day with their rifle and they get bad surprises.
-beforre leaving home, check all your screws. If you have a 795 and use iron sights, do not forget to loctite the front sight a couple days before. The screw WILL loosen.
- I am of those who believe shooting AQT with a rimfire makes it soooooooo easy. Too easy. The basics are based on the 6 steps, steady hold factors, NPOA and rifleman cadence. Recoil is part of that whole process. I saw often people scoring AQT with a .22 and failing miserably with a 223(that has a little recoil, but recoil however)
- I do not believe an AQT at full distance is harder than an AQT at 25. You just have to know your come-ups and gage the wind if it is more than 10 miles per hour and it is perfectly ok. Shooting at 500 is as easy for me than shooting that tiny target at 25. I can hit in rifleman cadence with my ar mounted with an ACOG any shoulder type size target from 1 yard to 500 yard prone with no effort.

The current average shooter has no fundamentals but he thinks because he urinates vertically he does not need directions while driving and he has nothing to learn about shooting. My advice: go to the Appleseed and consider that first one as a tryout. The next one you will go, you will know what to expect and you will do a lot better.

Caliper_RWVA
August 10, 2012, 11:40 PM
Shoot Rifleman with an M1A or go home! :D

Real Riflemen do it with a '03-A3 :neener:


kestak is right in his suggestions, but don't hold back if you only have one rifle and two mags! Get out there and learn with what you've got. Here in Michigan we've had people make Rifleman with tube-fed lever action rifles using zip ties for sling swivels.

tech30528: The one full distance event I have been to did have full distance rifleman patches. Sized appropriately so they could nearly be seen from full distance!

kestak: I agree that full distance isn't nearly as hard as most think. To me, it was simply the most fun I've had behind a rifle in my life! Gaging the wind and making those calls really was the most fun part of the whole day.

kestak
August 11, 2012, 06:35 AM
Blueeyes Huzzah! :)

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