.22LR or .25 ACP?


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ArchAngelCD
August 8, 2012, 12:27 PM
First off, if you refuse to answer the question as asked please don't bother to post. I know someone will not honor my request fairly quickly but I'm hoping to get a few educated answers before I have to ask the Mods to close the thread!

THIS IS NOT A SHOULD I USE THIS CALIBER THREAD! I know all the arguments against using a sub-caliber for self defense.

IF, and only IF someone for one reason or another would have to choose a very light caliber for self defense which would be a better choice, a handgun in .22LR or one in .25 Auto? I know a .22LR will generate more energy than a .25 Auto but the .25 Auto in centerfire is more reliable. So, hypothetically, which would be a "better" choice?

Please explain why you would choose one over the other but not why you would choose something else. Lets see if we can actually be adults in this thread and just answer the question as asked.

If you enjoyed reading about ".22LR or .25 ACP?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
JERRY
August 8, 2012, 12:36 PM
wrong section as you can not reload .22lr

but, out of the same sized gun the .25acp and .22lr are equals as far as "power".

the ammo cost goes to the .22lr, the reliability of the center fire goes to the .25acp.

if you want a realistic comparison you must use the beretta model 20 .25acp and the beretta model 21 .22lr. however, neither of these guns have an extractor, so id stay away from them for defensive use if i had a choice.

given the choice of comparable guns in these calibers i'd pick the .25acp.

strykerfire
August 8, 2012, 12:48 PM
as a owner of many pocket pistols, my Beretta 950 .22 short gets carried an awful lot lately. Not like i would grab that since i carry 2 guns mostly at all time, but it's a classy touch. That being sad. The .25 auto was made as a pistol round were the .22lr is not. The velocity and energy never has time to get to it's full potential in a short barrel pistol for the .22 yes the .25 is underpowered but that wont stop my baby browning from biting and barking.

strykerfire
August 8, 2012, 12:50 PM
so the .25 but i carry them all from time to time. Shorts to magnums.

mdi
August 8, 2012, 12:55 PM
Of the two, I'd prolly use the .22 lr. With high speed solids, the bullet will ricochet around in the body cavity causing a lot of damage (I've read Dr. state the .22 is a "dirty" round and does a lot of damage). Reliability? I haven't had a misfire in .22 lr in years, since I stopped using Remington ammo. Neither is a fight stopper and out of a pocket pistol w/2" barrel both are just bearly better than a sharp stick.

With over 11K posts you should know where this thread should go...:rolleyes:

Chevelle SS
August 8, 2012, 12:58 PM
22LR revolver would allow you to continue firing even if one round is a dud.

mljdeckard
August 8, 2012, 01:01 PM
When I have used premium .22s like Stingers or Velocitors, I have never had any kind of malfunction. In my 1911 conversion, I can crank through 15 rounds in a few seconds.

Clark
August 8, 2012, 01:03 PM
In this thread 2 weeks ago:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=669275

I describe how painful 25acp recoil can get with hot handloads, in those 25acp pistols that can handle it.

They also get really loud.

ArchAngelCD
August 8, 2012, 01:06 PM
With over 11K posts you should know where this thread should go...:rolleyes:
Yeah, that's why I sent a PM to the Mods and asked them to move it... lol :o

22-rimfire
August 8, 2012, 01:21 PM
The 25 ACP is the better choice if you like the firearms it is commonly chambered in. I personally would choose the 22LR simply because I don't like the "boom" associated with the 25 ACP and the cost of ammo.

GCBurner
August 8, 2012, 01:49 PM
From a cost standpoint alone, the .22 LR wins. For last-ditch defensive use, I'd rather be using .22 High Velocity Hollowpoints than a .25 FMJ, too.

Safetychain
August 8, 2012, 01:58 PM
My preference is the 22. I can't remember the last time any of my 22s failed to go bang, but each of my two 25s and several others I've tried give the occasional misfire. These little guns seem to be very sensitive to slight variations in load or something.

strykerfire
August 8, 2012, 02:19 PM
i seem to be getting alot of misfires with CCI Stingers lately and i push stingers on .22 shooters. Even in my revolvers thats how i know it was'nt the auto's. And yes the BANG on my .25's are LOUD. A warning shot in the dark sounds like a 9mm. Fired one in a ally once my ears rang for days so i could only imagine what it sounded like to them being on the buisness end of it.

The Man With No Name
August 8, 2012, 02:32 PM
If I could pick a revolver as the gun I would use in this hypothetical then the 22 wins for my needs. It is without a doubt cheaper ammo wise. So cheap that you can stock up on it no matter how low your budget and most can afford to shoot it enough to be good with it in the gun they are going to carry. In decades of shooting I've never had one misfire with a centerfire round. I've had a handful with 22lr. With a revolver it becomes a non-issue.

heeler
August 8, 2012, 02:52 PM
My brothers wife has an older 2.5 inch barrel H&R 929 9 round revolver that I would take any day over a 25 ACP semi auto.
But I would gladly take a Berreta 25 ACP Auto any day over my brothers crappy jamomatic Berreta 21 22 Auto.
So half a dozen of one or six of the other.

cougar1717
August 8, 2012, 03:00 PM
I'd take the .25 ACP because it's centerfire but also due to the CC guns chambered for it. The caliber is a little archaic since small guns usually aren't all steel anymore, but at least a vest pocket or a baby browning has a little classic swagger.

strykerfire
August 8, 2012, 03:42 PM
yes my Baby Browning definatly has Old Spice Swagger

Sniper66
August 8, 2012, 03:44 PM
I'm not sure where I saw it, but someone did extensive research of the fatality rates for various calibers in human shootings, both accidental and intentional. He researched several years worth of shootings nationwide with particular attention being paid to fatalities. This invoved 1,000s of shootings. The researcher concluded that their is no significant difference between calibers and that a .22 is just as likely to be fatal as a .45. So, by this research there would be no difference between the .22 and .25. Intuitively, one would think the .25 has more oomph, but apparently not so. His research demonstrated that the most dangerous gun is a tie bewteen shotguns and centerfire rifles.

RickMD
August 8, 2012, 06:01 PM
I think it all depends on the type of gun, which you didn't specify. If you're considering a vest pocket type like a Colt or Baby Browning the .25 ACP would be preferable due to it being center-fire and originally designed to be used in a miniature semiautomatic pistol. Rimless cases feed more reliably than rimmed in these guns. I bought a pair of Colt Jr.'s a few years ago. One was chambered for .25 ACP and the other for .22 Short. The .25 is by far the more reliable.

If you're considering a revolver or a larger auto the .22 would be my choice simply due to the cost of ammunition. Ballistically speaking, they're practically identical given similar barrel lengths.

mavracer
August 8, 2012, 06:42 PM
I agree with Rick if it's a little vest pocket size I'd go with a 25. The 25 has as much or more power from a 2" and it'll be more reliable.

JT-AR-MG42
August 8, 2012, 06:52 PM
My experience, .25 hands down.

35gr. XTPs function flawlessly for me and I trust them for the ranges they are intended for. Better priming system as well.

.22LR cartridge has been around longer than the .25acp.
If Browning, Walther, or Colt had intended the .22LR to be used in their respective pocket designs, they would have got them to market.

Fast forward to the newer designs of pocket pistols.

Even with the advancements made in ammunition quality, the .22LR suffers with its small, hollow, rounded, and radiused rim. 99 out of 100 successful extractions are not good enough for me.

JT

browningguy
August 8, 2012, 07:44 PM
.25 for me, I have gone to using the 35 gr. loads as every bit of velocity seems to be good to me.

jimbo555
August 8, 2012, 07:56 PM
For me it's the 22. I have a baby browning and don't feel comfortable carrying with a round chambered. My walther tph 22 is safe carried chambered and ready to go,also it has a second strike ability in case of a misfire.So for me it's the platform more than the caliber. They did make the tph in 25acp but it is rare,and the ammo is many times more expensive.

M7
August 8, 2012, 10:16 PM
Simply for the slightly larger bullet and the relaibility of a center-fire primer, I'd choose the .25

Out of the pocket pistols, there is little chance of expansion and the edge goes to reliability, IMO.

wlewisiii
August 8, 2012, 10:59 PM
Of these I would prefer a .25 as I would buy one of the various vest pocket pistols. The reliability would make the deal for me.

guyfromohio
August 8, 2012, 11:05 PM
I made the choice, years ago, to go with a Beretta in .25 instead of rimfire for reliability reasons. It was a surprisingly accurate and totally reliable little gun.

cfullgraf
August 9, 2012, 12:12 AM
I would probably go with the 22LR mostly because ammunition is more available.

Having said that, i want to get a 25ACP for myself.

Kendahl
August 9, 2012, 12:14 AM
35 years ago, a paranoid schizophrenic entered a local night club that was popular with police officers and opened fire with a shotgun. One of the officers in the place grabbed a .25 auto from his wife's purse and tried to return fire. The gun jammed after a couple of ineffective shots. A few years later, a local police officer was shot in the butt by the .25 auto he was carrying in his back pocket. These two incidents lead me to believe that small .25s are unreliable, unsafe and, like all small pistols, difficult to shoot accurately.

My first handgun was a used .22 Erma that resembled a Luger P08. At first, it regularly failed to extract empty cases. It got better after I cleaned it many times and switched to copper jacketed ammunition. But it was never something I would trust with my life. My current .22 is a High Standard Sharpshooter that is 100% reliable and a delight to shoot. However, it is as big as my Colt .45 Gold Cup so there is no reason to carry it instead of the Colt.

Rather than a .22 or .25, I would rather carry a Ruger LCR with light .38 loads or an LCP in .380. (The LCR is also available as an 8 shot .22.)

ArchAngelCD
August 9, 2012, 01:39 AM
I agree with Rick if it's a little vest pocket size I'd go with a 25. The 25 has as much or more power from a 2" and it'll be more reliable.
I'm not sure that's true. Stingers in a rifle are rated @1640 fps, Velocitors are rated @1435 fps and the Mini Mags are rated @1260 fps. Winchester and Remington have similar loads too. Yes I know you lose a lot in a short barrel but most .25 Auto ammo is rated no higher than 900 fps so I think even when shot from a short barrel the .22R might have the edge on velocity.

Thanks for all the comments so far. I do appreciate the conversation.

ArchAngelCD
August 9, 2012, 01:45 AM
Please lets not morph this thread into which gun to carry. I'm really only focusing on the rounds themselves although I do realize the gun does have something to do with reliability too.

Again, thanks for all the good comments so far... (although I don't appreciate the last line in Post #28)

303tom
August 9, 2012, 02:04 AM
5 or 6 Stinger HP`s from this sure mess up your day.............

OARNGESI
August 9, 2012, 03:25 AM
as a defensive gun id go with a 25 for reliabillity. i seriously doubt there is any serious differencesin ballistics.

Cocked & Locked
August 9, 2012, 09:45 AM
.25 for me

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6259764/381416353.jpg

mavracer
August 9, 2012, 10:44 AM
I'm not sure that's true. Stingers in a rifle are rated @1640 fps, Velocitors are rated @1435 fps and the Mini Mags are rated @1260 fps. Winchester and Remington have similar loads too. Yes I know you lose a lot in a short barrel but most .25 Auto ammo is rated no higher than 900 fps so I think even when shot from a short barrel the .22R might have the edge on velocity.
According to BBTI stingers only went 940 fps from a 2.5" Beretta with a 32 gr bullet. I realize that's only 3gr lighter than the 25 but your realize that is 10%.

amd6547
August 9, 2012, 11:20 AM
I have a matched set of Beretta Bobcats...one 25acp, one 22lr.
The 22lr is for range play and practice. It is very reliable and accurate, fun to shoot.
The 25acp is what is in my pocket right now. I just prefer the centerfire priming and the jacketed bullet. Also, with the MecGar magazine, which holds nine rounds, I have two more than the 22lr holds.
BTW, I recently tried shooting several different 22 loads into a thick midway catalog, along side both an FMJ and a JHP 25... Same catalog, identical pistols. The 25's penetrated only slightly more than the 22's.
I would not hesitate to carry the 22lr if it were the only one I owned, though.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/amd6547/DSC02119.jpg

Cocked & Locked
August 9, 2012, 11:43 AM
Wow...that is a fine looking brace of Bobcats! :what:

BCRider
August 9, 2012, 01:54 PM
Like many here I have had so few issues with my rimfire ammo that with some guns I've got I don't recall the last time it had a FTF. On some other guns where I or a previous owner "tuned" the mainspring I get the odd strike with no fire, turn the rim a little and it goes bang the second time.

If your gun is a reliable one I'd say buy good brand stuff that is in separate carriers and buy it in bricks of 500. Test a couple of random packs of 50 at the range. If all 100 to 150 fire OK during practice with no FTF's or jams from the gun you could consider the amount remaining to be equally as reliable.

My current .22 pistol and ammo setup is a S&W 422 and CCI Blazer. I've shot this combo long enough that I'd expect to go through all 150 "test" rounds in practice and if the gun hiccuped at all I'd be surprised. I've used this combo to shoot many a day of Speed Steel without a single failure where we typically shoot around 200 rounds to get through the match. So .22LR ammo CAN be reliable. But the gun has to do its part as well.

keithbayne
August 9, 2012, 01:59 PM
22 hands down. especialy if it long rifle ammo or 22 mag.
i hade a friend shoot a guy in the head with a 25 ten feet away,all it did was piss him off.
had it been a 22 hollow point lr,it would have been a different ending.also,i dont where the idea that 22 isnt as reliable as 25, i have woned many 22 and i dont ever remember a feed issue or a squib but i have owned one 25 and i did have problems with that.

Ala Dan
August 9, 2012, 02:10 PM
Give me the .22LR, any day of the week; of course, if relegated to these small
calibers. In many cases,you can't even find an entrance wound; but the subject
will be lying there - "stone-cold-dead"~! Seems like CCI .22LR ammo works
best in the small semi-auto's~! ;) :D

351 WINCHESTER
August 9, 2012, 02:22 PM
I'd give a slight nudge to the .25 just because it's centerfire and more relaible. I doubt there is enough difference in power between the two to make any difference.

GLOOB
August 9, 2012, 02:54 PM
I'd take the 22LR, because you can buy high quality ammo for much less and I don't fancy reloading a cartridge that small.

In a good platform, $20 worth of CCI ammunition would be enough to placate any reliability concerns and get a lot of practice.

22LR is reliable enough for the Mossad.

I know the OP doesn't want the platform to be a consideration, but it's hard for me to think of any 25ACP's that are bigger than a palm gun with a one finger grip. That may be subconsciously swaying my decision.

CommanderCrusty
August 9, 2012, 03:18 PM
Absolutely, positively the .25 automatic.

That center fire primer is going to be WAY more reliable than any .22 RIM fire. I have never, in my entire life, fired a .22 revolver, automatic or rifle that was reliable enough for me to bet my life it would go bang 20 times in a row. I would NEVER bet my life on a rim fire cartridge.

Go with the .25 auto.

Gordon
August 9, 2012, 03:21 PM
Those two Bobcats answer it all IMHO.That said there is nothing smaller or lighter than my Lt. wt. Baby Browning .25 which I run with Geco Ball or Winchester pellet nose in condition 3 . I have the .22 LR Bobcat pictured and Stingers are very reliable and go 1045fps out of mine, which makes it a pocket plinker. The Bobcat. like a Colt 1908 weighs about the same as an Air weight J frame 38 which makes the choice a no brainer for me.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/gordonhulme/025.jpg

Carl N. Brown
August 9, 2012, 03:29 PM
Just personal opinion, but for positive reliable ignition, I would go with the .25 ACP.

However, I have relied on CCI Mini-Mag and CCI Stinger in .22 LR in my pocket and holster size .22 pistols after lotsa testing.

For general run of gun and ammo for person who might not be able to do their own extensive testing, I would have to recommend .25 ACP over .22 LR.

Catapult
August 9, 2012, 04:02 PM
.22 LR all the way. Cheap and available ammo. Reliability is not a real issue when using good ammo.

22-rimfire
August 9, 2012, 04:57 PM
Oh you do occasionally have FTF's with "good" 22 ammo, but it is often due to not cleaning the gun rather than the round itself. But a DA revolver solves some of those issues for self defense. The typical problem with 22LR has been no primer or it spread unevenly around the base. Remington seems to have/had a problem with that, but the new "improved" Golden Bullets are much better than what has been out there for the last 5 years or so. I have not shot any of their other stuff since the new and improved GB's came out, but I still have a bunch of the recent older stuff to work my way through before buying any more.

Hk Dan
August 9, 2012, 05:10 PM
Be careful with either caliber. If shoot a guy with these, and he finds out about it, he's gonna be MAD! Now, regarding the "45 is as deadly as 22" comment; in a lot of human shootings 22s are used execution syle aremt they? Wouldn't that tend to skew the result? I mean if that was true SWAT teams would be using browning Buckmarks.

MCgunner
August 9, 2012, 06:06 PM
I pick .22 in a revolver and .25ACP in a pistol.

MCgunner
August 9, 2012, 06:07 PM
Be careful with either caliber. If shoot a guy with these, and he finds out about it, he's gonna be MAD! Now, regarding the "45 is as deadly as 22" comment; in a lot of human shootings 22s are used execution syle aremt they? Wouldn't that tend to skew the result? I mean if that was true SWAT teams would be using browning Buckmarks.

Swat teams are offensive. I use a gun defensively and you know the first rule in a gunfight, right?

Swing
August 9, 2012, 06:44 PM
I pick .22 in a revolver and .25ACP in a pistol.

This.

toivo
August 9, 2012, 07:03 PM
Stingers in a rifle are rated @1640 fps, Velocitors are rated @1435 fps and the Mini Mags are rated @1260 fps. Winchester and Remington have similar loads too. Yes I know you lose a lot in a short barrel but most .25 Auto ammo is rated no higher than 900 fps so I think even when shot from a short barrel the .22R might have the edge on velocity.

Without real numbers, your final claim is impossible to verify, but I would guess the other way. You're talking the difference between a 20" to 24" barrel and a 2.5" barrel. That's a huge difference.

I don't know of any rifles chambered for .25 ACP. It was designed to be shot in short barrels, and that's where those chrono numbers come from. On the other hand, .22 rimfire is primarily a rifle round and its optimum burn time is achieved in an 18" to 20" barrel. Look at how much unburned powder residue you get from .22 rimfire even in a 5" or 6" handgun. That's lost energy right there.

lloveless
August 9, 2012, 09:38 PM
I have used the 22 lr in an Iver Johnson pt-22 (tph clone)for ccw when I didn't have the money to buy something larger. I no longer have it, but would use it again under certain circumstances. I am not convinced that the .25 is all that more reliable in spite of the oft repeated phrases confirming "centerfire reliablity". I'll bet those Baby Brownings have a rail bite to them that my pt-22 didn't have! Again the Mossad picked the .22 lr for a reason.
ll

doc2rn
August 9, 2012, 10:21 PM
I was looking at the 9 shot Ruger LCR in .22lr yesterday. Of the two I would definately pick the .22lr round. If the LCR ever comes out in .22 WMR I am gonna jump in that camp, and switch off of my S&W 651.

I think I would have to chose by platform rather than by caliber.

usp9
August 10, 2012, 09:17 AM
Again the Mossad picked the .22 lr for a reason.

Yes, it was quiet. If they had a quiet .45, they'd have used it, you can bet.

Cocked & Locked
August 10, 2012, 10:14 AM
that

Grmlin
August 10, 2012, 10:50 AM
Between my Berretta bobcat in 25 and my snunie S&W 22 revolver, the 22 is the winner. The little 25 is about the most inacurate thing there is, it is truely a gut gun.

The Bushmaster
August 10, 2012, 11:43 AM
ArchangelCD... I have a little FIE .25 ACP that I use as a pocket pistol. Even though the .22LR is toted to be the better choice I have chosen the .25 ACP This FIE has never failed to go Bang. With the much improved ammunition that is available on the market the .25 ACP will stand up against the .22s just fine. My ammunition of choice (not cheap) Fiocchi .25 35 grain XTP/HP.

Now you can have the mods close this down.:D

Shawn Dodson
August 10, 2012, 02:01 PM
I'm not sure that's true. Stingers in a rifle are rated @1640 fps, Velocitors are rated @1435 fps and the Mini Mags are rated @1260 fps. Winchester and Remington have similar loads too. Yes I know you lose a lot in a short barrel but most .25 Auto ammo is rated no higher than 900 fps so I think even when shot from a short barrel the .22R might have the edge on velocity.

CCI Stinger, when fired from a 2.4" bbl Beretta 21A averaged 987 fps. In my tests it did not expand and penetrated less than 12".

See "Terminal Performance of MPB Quik-Shok, CCI Stinger and Remington Viper .22 Long Rifle Ammunition when fired from a Beretta Model 21A Handgun into Standard Ordnance Gelatin" at - http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm (http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm)

lloveless
August 10, 2012, 07:03 PM
USP9 the Mossad used .22 lr for reasons other than how quiet it is. There are pistols with silencers in 9 mm and .45. The .22 lr is ubiquitous, the guns are inexpensive, and therefore disposable.
ll

MCgunner
August 10, 2012, 08:32 PM
I don't know of any rifles chambered for .25 ACP. It was designed to be shot in short barrels, and that's where those chrono numbers come from. On the other hand, .22 rimfire is primarily a rifle round and its optimum burn time is achieved in an 18" to 20" barrel. Look at how much unburned powder residue you get from .22 rimfire even in a 5" or 6" handgun. That's lost energy right there.

I got just under 800 fps from CCI Mini mag and Federal bulk pack from a 1 5/8" NAA mini revolver. I got just over 800 and a lot more noise from the Stingers. I get about 1150 fps from a CCI Maximag hollow point in my 2" Black Widow.

Still, even the magnum isn't a real power house. It makes about 100 ft lbs. To put in perspective, the .32ACP runs around 120 ft lbs and my .380s run about 190 ft lbs. But, when small is all you can do, the little Black Widow is 3.5" at 25 yards accurate and really light and compact, can hide about anywhere, could even hide wearing a bathing suit, though that's not a real pretty picture. :D Actually, I prefer the .22 mag, personally, to a .32. The magnum has excessive penetration which is a good thing. This is something I couldn't brag about with .22LR or .25ACP.

MedWheeler
August 10, 2012, 10:52 PM
I have no qualms with carrying either in a reliable platform, and I've never had a FTF in any rimfire gun, including my 25+ - year-old Jennings J-22, with CCI MiniMags (the round most-often fired by me in .22.) Though I don't carry a .22 for defense simply because I have other options available, I'll never disparage anyone who does, nor will I disparage the person who carries a .25 auto. There are numerous people who come on here and tell us they "know a guy who knows a guy who shot a guy (or was the guy shot") with one and lived, but my money says that the person shot, even if they walked two miles uphill in the snow to reach the ER, still stopped what they were doing that got 'em shot in the first place. That's what's important to me.
Because of the reliability I personally have experienced with my rimfire guns with CCI MiniMags (never had a misfire with bulk stuff, either, but some of it doesn't cycle some of my guns), I'd probably lean toward the .22 if I owned neither and was shopping for a gun on one of the calibers.

That being said, I do own "defense-sized" .22 pistols (the aforementioned J-22, and a Taurus PT-22) so, if I was to shop for another gun in one of these calibers, it would probably be in .25, just because I don't have one yet.

Glock19Fan
August 11, 2012, 06:09 AM
Personally I own both and prefer the .25ACP. It has always been more reliable in my experiences, shoots a heavier bullet at the same velocity, and has a jacketed bullet to help with bone penetration.

With that said, a P32 goes everywhere I do (at minimum).

crstrode
November 21, 2012, 05:53 PM
All over the "Interweb" you will find folks regurgitating the myth that a 22LR is equal or greater than the 25ACP in terms of muzzle energy.

What a lot of hooey!

This is most likely due to fact that most 22LR ballistics data is based upon much much longer barrels than found in pocket pistols. North American Arms has some good actual performance data on the 22LR from a short barrel. Here is the link: http://northamericanarms.com/ballistics

The fact is that the 25 ACP packs 25% more poop merely because the standard 50 grain bullet is 25% larger than the typical 40 grain 22LR bullet. Both cartridges leave the end of the same length barrel at about the same velocity. Typically the 22LR is actually lower than the typical 25ACP.

Comparing a 50 grain 25ACP bullet to a 40 grain 22LR bullet at 750 fps muzzle velocity shows 62.4 vs 49.9 foot pounds.

(Mass in grains times Velocity in feet per second squared divided by 450400 = foot pounds energy)

browningguy
November 22, 2012, 12:04 AM
I chose .25's for my pocket pistols, Beretta 21 and Baby Browning, they both shoot the 35 gr. JHP's very well and you get just a little more velocity out of them.

481
November 22, 2012, 12:29 AM
I think that the difference in each cartridge's KE or momentum is so small as to be inconsequential. The .25ACP, for the fact that it is a centerfire cartridge that offers more a reliable ignition source, would be my choice.

TennJed
November 22, 2012, 02:09 AM
I would prefer a 8 round 22lr revolver.

Hunter2011
November 22, 2012, 04:08 AM
Why should a FTF in a .22 pistol really be so much of a problem that it makes you choose a .25 rather? I had one this past weekend. But it was with very old ammo I have never used up in my rifle because of their poor accuracy. Point is with CCi Mini Mags I have never ever experienched even one FTF. And even if you do experience a FTF you just chamber the next round. This does not take so much more time than firing another shot from a revolver that had a FTF, not? But it is just my oppinion.
I will take the .22LR between the two, simply because you do get better, bigger and more accurate pistols in .22LR than in .25. The .25 pistols are too small for me to shoot accurately with consistantly.

Shawn Dodson
November 22, 2012, 02:46 PM
Why should a FTF in a .22 pistol really be so much of a problem that it makes you choose a .25 rather? It depends on whether or not the pistol has an extractor. Berettas and Taurus' don't. The firing pin can swage the rim of a misfired case to the barrel breech, requiring a tool to pry it from the chamber. My Beretta 21A was one such pistol.

Other auto pistols with an extractor don't reliably extract a misfired cartridge from the chamber. With these pistols the blowback operation works in synergy with the extractor to extract the .22 LR case. When there's a misfire the extractor can slip off the rim when the slide is manually retracted.

Neither scenario is good for a defense pistol.

ApacheCoTodd
November 22, 2012, 03:01 PM
Yes, it was quiet. If they had a quiet .45, they'd have used it, you can bet.
A salient point would be that the Israelis had a choice of both of these calibers in essentially the same platform and clearly and famously chose the .22.

suemarkp
November 22, 2012, 03:10 PM
I'd vote for the 22LR. Way more choice of ammo and way cheaper. I've never had a misfire in 22LR, but I've only fired about 1000 rounds of it. I don't buy the huge bulk packs or Remington golden bullets. You could easily afford to buy a replacement box of 22LR every year for the cost of one box of 25 ACP.

If you want a heavy bullet in 22LR, there's the 60gr subsonic round from Aguila. This will probably come out tumbling, but at short range with a non-expanding bullet that may be a good thing. I wish there was a bullet a bit heavier than 40gr that would stabilize in most 22LR's (there used to be some 42gr silhouette loads). But you have a wide range of weights and velocities to choose from in 22LR.

Even if you reload, there's only so much choice of bullet profiles and weights in 25 ACP. 25 Auto is pretty much limited to semi autos, so you have a limited range of velocity-weight to say within. A 25 ACP wadcutter may be the most effective, but I don't think you'll find too many guns in 25 ACP that will feed those if you could make the bullet. You can shave the lead nose on a 22LR to make a flat point.

Energy doesn't really matter. If it penetrates a person, that is sufficient (and has more to do with momentum and frontal area than energy). Neither is probably going to reliably expand so a caliber sized hole is what you get, with a flat nose being more effective than round.

golden
November 22, 2012, 05:29 PM
In a really small pistol, like the COLT .25ACP or BERETTA Bobcat or Jetfire, I would go for the .25ACP for a defense pistol. In this size gun, reliability is everything and the .25ACP is much more reliable.
The .25ACP is a miniture centerfire round sharing many of the features of the 9m.m. and .45ACP. It is long proven for reliablity.
The .22lr rimfire rounds are based on Civil War error technology. That is why the bullets feel greasy, as they use external lube. Ever notice how dirty they can get if kept in a pocket?

I though so highly of the BERETTA, I bought one for myself and one for my wife.
I read that one blogger does not like these pistols because they lack an extractor. My advise is to shoot them. They are more reliable than 90% of the competing pistols which have extractors.

My experience with several brands of micro pistols is that they are much more sensitive to gripping error and ammo problems.

However, I do not carry smaller than .32ACP normally.

That being said, in a larger gun, the .22LR can pick up some veloicty and be more useful as well as much cheaper to shoot.
I like the WALTHER P22 for this size. It is accurate and reliable with a double action trigger that makes it safe to carry. It is also big enough to hold onto properly.

good luck with your choice,

Jim

Hunter2011
November 22, 2012, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the explanation Shawn, I get it now. I did not know this.

krupparms
November 23, 2012, 01:10 PM
I prefer the .22LR over the .25ACP mostly because of cost. Also the British Army issues this cal. for SD to soldiers stationed in N.Ireland for off duty use. The .22lr is not the best SD round. But its cheap &accurate &works even if it's old tech. I hate to bet my life on it, but have before &I am still here. I would pick the one that I was most comfortable with &was reliable &accurate. That's the right one for you. Good Luck!

mljdeckard
November 23, 2012, 02:11 PM
First of all, I wouldn't carry either of them if I had any choice at all.

.25s are tiny guns. Poor grip surface, small sight radius. They are difficult to shoot well for reasons that have nothing to do with the cartridge itself. The short barrel gives an already weak cartridge a range measured in inches.

A .22 is far from ideal as well, but you have much more selection for different guns and ammo. And in my 1911 conversion kit, I can carry 15+1, and dump them all center of mass in a couple of seconds very effectively.

toivo
November 23, 2012, 02:58 PM
I prefer the .22LR over the .25ACP mostly because of cost. Also the British Army issues this cal. for SD to soldiers stationed in N.Ireland for off duty use.
That's the first I've ever heard of this. Do you know what the issue weapon is?

USAF_Vet
November 23, 2012, 07:36 PM
I've never held a .25 platform I liked or felt comfortable shooting. .22 is available in everything from tiny pocket pistols to full size 1911 frames. I prefer a larger gun. Because of that, I choose the .22 for this exercise. If more guns were chambered in .25, my outlook might change. I'm concerned with how well I can shoot the gun more so than what comes out of the barrel.
Also, price per round has a lot to do with it. .25 ACP isn't cheap.

ArchAngelCD
November 24, 2012, 01:43 AM
First of all, I wouldn't carry either of them if I had any choice at all.

.25s are tiny guns. Poor grip surface, small sight radius. They are difficult to shoot well for reasons that have nothing to do with the cartridge itself. The short barrel gives an already weak cartridge a range measured in inches.

A .22 is far from ideal as well, but you have much more selection for different guns and ammo. And in my 1911 conversion kit, I can carry 15+1, and dump them all center of mass in a couple of seconds very effectively.
I'm guessing you didn't bother to read my request in the first post or you just don't care what the OP asked for...

I'm wondering why this thread is back after 3 months?

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
November 24, 2012, 01:58 AM
As a LEO for 32 years in the Los Angeles area, I have seen several persons killed w/a .22 cal. The only .25 acp shooting I worked, a drunk was shot in the forhead. His face looked like a bloody road map. He was really pissed off and refused treatment and plucked the bullet from his wound. I some times pocket a beretta .22 model 948, it has never failed. My first hand experience says a Quality .22 works for me.

orionengnr
November 24, 2012, 02:19 AM
If I had a loved one who was unable to shoot anything more powerful, and assuming it was HD, and not carrying it around... I would probably be more confident in giving her my Ruger MkII with 10+1 rounds of WM Federal bulk pack .22LR.

I have been shooting this pistol and this ammo for about eight years now, trying to make it to the range once a week, and I honestly can not tell you the last time I had a misfire with this combo. Some other brands of ammo have been less than perfect, but the Wally World Federal "brown box" 550 round bulk packs have been amazing.

I have not seen any of them in my 2-3 local WMs for several months...I hope this is a temporary situation.

Come to think of it, I have always been somewhat intrigued by those micro .22LR or .22Mag belt buckle guns...Freedom Arms maybe? I always looked at them as a toy/gimmick, but if I knew someone who would not or could not carry anything better, one of those "might" be better than nothing.

orionengnr
November 24, 2012, 02:26 AM
I'm wondering why this thread is back after 3 months?

Because post #63 chose to revive it from the dead. This put it back on page 1, and others replied, not realizing that it was an old thread.

Happens all the time.

mljdeckard
November 24, 2012, 02:34 AM
Did I not give both reasons why I WOULD use a .22 and why I WOULDN'T use a .25?

thecarfarmer
November 24, 2012, 01:53 PM
And, if people have interest in resuming the conversation... what's wrong with revisiting an old thread?

Seems to me, it makes more sense to have one long '22 vs 25' thread than three or four short ones.

As far as which I'd carry... well, I have a Glock 21 on my hip as I type this - I mention that to state where my prejudices lie.

That being said, I'd choose quality of ammo over caliber between those two - I've seen cheap 9mm that had failures to fire, extract, eject, etc... and nobody seems to feel that 9mm is a less effective SD round than .22LR or .25 Auto, do they?

-Bill

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