[giggitygiggity]

I constantly hear people on here talking about setting up a trust for their NFA items. What is a trust and what are the advantages/disadvantages of a trust? Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but I need to have it explained to me as if I am a child. I am currently waiting on the ATF paperwork to get approved for one suppressor that I bought and I am likely going to buy a number of other suppressors and SBR's/SBS's as time progresses. Please explain this whole trust deal from the ground up. Thanks.

[TurtlePhish]

No fingerprints or photo needed, no CLEO sign off. Multiple people can be listed in the trust and any of them can be in possession of the NFA item on their own if they want to.

[Snook135]

Many advantages of having a trust.

No prints, no pictures, no Cleo sig (chief law enforcement officer signature)

Plus they transfer tax free in the event of your death.

[Telekinesis]

Plus they transfer tax free in the event of your death.

There are many advantages to a trust, but this isn't one of them. All NFA weapons willed to an individual will transfer tax-free to them on a Form 5, even in they are individually owned. From the deceased, they go to the executor of the estate, then after the Form 5 is returned, they are transferred directly to the recipient. They don't go to a FFL/SOT, even if the transfer is across state lines.

The reason I went with a trust was that I could have multiple people listed as trustees and able to possess the weapons, and the fact that I didn't need to get fingerprinted or get a sign off from my CLEO every time I wanted a new NFA toy.

[wally]

The reason I went with a trust was that I could have multiple people listed as trustees and able to possess the weapons, and the fact that I didn't need to get fingerprinted or get a sign off from my CLEO every time I wanted a new NFA toy

Yup, this is the main reason, even if your CLEO is happy to sign.

[tepin]

Exactly what Telekinesis (and others have said).
A Trust is a legal entity like a corporation [is a legal entity] but without the maintenance costs etc.... A Trust is generally used for estate planning. A Trust can own "things" like real estate, cars, bank accounts and other assets (like guns and NFA regulated devices). The person that forms the Trust is generally the trustee (manager). As the trustee you manage the affairs of the Trust and if your Trust allows, you can use the assets in the trust. A Trust can also have one or more co-trustees (your wife, friend etc..).
The primary reasons people use a Trust to buy NFA devices is:
1. Avoid the hassle of fingerprints, chief LEO sign-off & FBI background check
2. Enable multiple trustees to be in possession of restricted NFA items

Hope this helps.

[plouffedaddy]

2. Enable multiple trustees to be in possession of restricted NFA items

That's the big reason I set mine up. I have a job where I get a free trip to a sandbox every few years and I don't want to limit the use (or even posession) of the firearms for my family. The wife, father, ect... are all trustees.

[Landric]

I have items on both a trust and as an individual. At the moment I have everything that requires permission form the NFA Branch to transport interstate as an individual (SBRs, etc.) and stuff that doesn't (just suppressors for me, but AOWs also) on a trust. The reason is that I want my name, not a trust name, on the paperwork that says I can transport interstate. The trust makes the paperwork easier, but I have no problem getting the CLEO sign off where I live now, and I can fingerprint myself free of charge, so that isn't an issue. Still, the trust makes sense. Should I move somewhere in the future where I can't get the CLEO sign off as easily, I'd put everything from that point on in my trust.

[Adam123]

SO, how time-consuming is it and how much does it cost to set up a trust?

[ying pow]

I used Quicken Willmaker. Got it. notarized at the. bank.

[medalguy]

I have a trust set up by a licensed attorney who specializes in this kind of work. After reading it all the way through, there's no way an internet program could cover all the bases this trust does.

You should be able to find an attorney who is knowledgable in NFA trusts who will write one for around $400 maybe less. If there's ever a question or a problem, he's the guy you can turn to for the answer. I have enough money invested in my toys that I don't want to be stuck out on a limb by myself. Keep in mind when you're spending the kind of bucks that are required for NFA goodies, the one-time cost of a trust is peanuts and it protects your very sizable investment.

Time wise I got my trust in about 10 days from my attorney.

[braxton14]

So after those 10 or more days of getting the trust written up, what's the next step? and how long does it take from there?

[TIMC]

st got my trust from here http://texasnfatrust.com/products.htm The answers to most of your questions are here. The cost was $450 for the trust and the ability to call him any time I have a question. I think that is well worth it since I am just getting into NFA items.

[medalguy]

You receive the trust, make several copies, sign them, and fill out the Form 1, send in the completed form, a copy of the trust, and a check for $200, then sit back and the wait starts. :cuss: Have patience, all in good time.

[dennisrichard630]

As I understand the Tax Stamps you already have in your name would need to be transferred to your trust at the cost of ANOTHER $200 stamp.

Can someone tell me if that is accurate?

[TIMC]

I would think if you are the settlor of the trust it has already been established who you are but it may become tricky for trustees.

[Bubbles]

As I understand the Tax Stamps you already have in your name would need to be transferred to your trust at the cost of ANOTHER $200 stamp.

Can someone tell me if that is accurate?
Correct, as the trust is a different legal entity from you.

[dennisrichard630]

I want to do a Trust but hat eto have to pay $400 all over again for my 2 suppressors.

But if you have atrust and walk into a store and purchase a suppressor am I correct that you take it home that day?

[Guillermo]

is there a background check on the administrator and/or any of the members of the Trust?

No fingerprints would indicate no background check.

If not, it seems like that would shorten the wait time.

[ClickClickD'oh]

But if you have atrust and walk into a store and purchase a suppressor am I correct that you take it home that day?

No. You still have to fill out the paperwork to send to the ATF for approval and tax stamp. Normal processing time.

[Landric]

I want to do a Trust but hat eto have to pay $400 all over again for my 2 suppressors.

There is no reason to transfer your suppressors into a trust if you already own them as an individual. I suppose one could make the argument that additional trustees could use them outside your presence, but is that an issue that is worth $400 to you? New items can be purchased by the trust, no reason to transfer existing items you own into it.

But if you have atrust and walk into a store and purchase a suppressor am I correct that you take it home that day?

Nope, same wait time as an individual purchase, 6 months, give or take. The transfer still has to be approved, it just has to be approved to the trust rather than to an individual.

[justice06rr]

In my area, a trust can be created for you by a lawyer for as low as $250 or more depending where you go. I plan to set one up in the near future as most of my personal items are all paid off (cars, motorcycle, guns, etc).

A trust is an excellent way to go about obtaining your NFA items, but can also handle all your other personal properties like your vehicles, watercraft, etc. in the event of your death. Having the trust setup by a lawyer is the best way to get the trust so if you have any legal questions, the lawyer can always back you up

[dennisrichard630]

I was under the impression that since the item was approved to a trust rather than a person you dont need all the signatures. LAME

So then I guess I have to ask, aside from allowing multiple people to have "possession" to these items, whats the benefit?

I am 28 yrs old. My wife has no value or interest in my suppressors so she probably will throw them away if I die thinking their junk metal. haha

I expect that my suppressors will be shot up and ruined by the time I am dying and am not concerned with them not being transferred.

[Guillermo]

am not concerned with them not being transferred.

My thoughts are that a trust allows me to let another borrow it.

Especially a .22 can, which is great when instructing a newby.

Put them on the trust and then they can legally be "in possession"

[Landric]

I was under the impression that since the item was approved to a trust rather than a person you dont need all the signatures. LAME

You don't need a CLEO sign off, fingerprints, or photographs with a trust, the transfer still has to be approved by the NFA branch.

[Cesiumsponge]

If you go through the legal hassle of setting up a trust, you can also use it to plan your assets in the event of your passing or incapacitation. The most important feature in my mind is having the trust handle PROPER distribution of your assets so they comply with NFA laws. You don't want to turn your remainder beneficiaries into criminals unintentionally. NFA assets cannot be distributed like normal estate property upon your death without turning people into accidental felons.

I did mine through one of two local estate attorneys who worked directly with the NFA branch of the ATF to ensure compliance in developing the GundocX system which they're nationally licensing out to other attorneys nationally to set up NFA trusts. Like medalguy says, the thoroughness and legal specifics to your particular state and personal requirements are such that no freebie Internet program can match. My trust assets will bypass probate when I pass, hence avoid public record. Considering the price attorneys charge for their time, investing an hour or two worth of attorney's fees for a trust is the ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure. All my trust documents fill up a 1" legal binder.

You aren't letting others borrow it. Those that use your equipment are considered lifetime beneficiaries (which you can designate and remove) or co-trustees (normally family members). Beneficiaries benefit from the property owned by the trust. Lifetime beneficiaries benefit when the grantor is alive. Remainder beneficiaries benefit only when the grantor is deceased (or incapacitated, if the trust is written as such). Trustees and co-trustees have legal title over trust properties.

Of course, nothing above is legal advice. I'd contact a lawyer. When I did my own freebie trust and decided to get a more complete trust that had been built by a lawyer for my specific situation, the lawyer informed me that my initial trust was invalid because it was lacking several key elements. Of course, not being a lawyer, I didn't know better and thought I did good. Just imagine the up-front cost of setting up a trust vs having the ATF knock on your door and point out your trust was invalid, and the associated legal fees needed to square away -that- problem.