S&w 659


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crooked stripe
August 11, 2012, 08:32 AM
I purchased one from a dealer that bought 10 from a police auction. Most have never been fired and the ones that have only a few times. Mine came with a box with all paper work. Anyway, The first cleaning when I got home I had a heck of a time getting it apart. All the oils dried and turned to glue and left this sticky yellow film on everything. The instructions don't show that the pistol has a barrel bushing like a 1911. The bushing has to be removed before the barrel will come out of the slide. I have read that different models where produced. Square or round trigger guard, 1or 2 mag releases and sights, adjustable or fixed. Since my instructions don't show all the differences would the barrel bushing cause the the break down any different than the instructions show? The rear (male) end of the recoil spring fits into a hole with a nipple that fits into a slot. This all has to be done blindly. The guide rod keeps hanging up on the edge of hole thus keeping the recoil spring from seating. Anyone else have this problem and if so is there a trick my instructions don't show. Almost as tricky as the notorious Ruger MKIII. Sorry for dragging this question out but I don't know how else to describe it. Besides a Pain in the A??

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tarosean
August 11, 2012, 08:58 AM
Not sure if this has what you need...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdtrB7-h4J8

crooked stripe
August 11, 2012, 09:53 AM
Getting it apart wasn't the problem besides from the gluey oil. I am just thinking there might be a different set of instructions for a pistol that has a barrel bushing. I figure if it comes apart different then it must go back together different. The instructions might be from another firearm. Thanks for the video, I looked but didn't come up with anything.

9mmepiphany
August 11, 2012, 02:28 PM
Not sure if this has what you need...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdtrB7-h4J8
That was funny watching someone try to field strip the 659 without cocking the hammer.

Here is the correct way to do it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_m335N1zGU&feature=relmfu

The rear (male) end of the recoil spring fits into a hole with a nipple that fits into a slot. This all has to be done blindly. The guide rod keeps hanging up on the edge of hole thus keeping the recoil spring from seating.
I'm not even sure what this means...and I've read it a few times already.

The recoil spring doesn't have a male end.
1. It goes onto the guide rod
2. the assembly goes into the slide
3. the rear of the rod seats against the barrel

...which part is done blindly?

crooked stripe
August 11, 2012, 08:44 PM
Picture 5 shows the guide rod started into the grove headed for the nipple to seat in the frame.
Picture 6 shows how the guide rod slips off the barrel lug and gets caught on the lip of the grove. Hope this helps figure this out. The more I work on this project I am not seeing any wear. The take down pin has to be tapped out of the slide to disassemble. As far as the slide retracting when fired, the only powder I have found that will make it cycle is 6.2 gr of Power Pistol. I also tried max loads of Bullseye, 4.8 gr- 231 at 4.9 and Unique at 5.8. It has taken me all afternoon working up these loads till I hit max. My Lees powder measure just gets me close so I had to trickle to get max. Any recommendations on powder I could try? Not that I need them as long as Power Pistol keeps working. The only other powder I have is Trail Boss for my 45 colt. I sure am hoping the 659 loosens up and makes this field stripping easier.

9mmepiphany
August 11, 2012, 09:06 PM
I've owned a M39, a M59 and a M469 and can't think that the 659 would be a lot different...

When I re-assembled my guns, after field stripping, I installed the recoil spring guide rod into the slide with one end going into the dust cover and the rear pressing against the barrel foot.

Are you installing the recoil assembly into the frame and then trying to install the slide/barrel?

crooked stripe
August 11, 2012, 10:25 PM
I install the same as you. As you install the slide the guide rod comes off the barrel foot and gets caught on the shoulder of channel before the nipple can get to seat. In pic 2 I laid the guide rod in the channel. That channel is about 3/4" long and when you push the slide in far enough to install the take down pin the guide rod sticks out of the end of the pistol just under the barrel. At that point the gun is locked up. The last time I tried just a few minutes ago, I twisted the end of the guide rod and it snaped into place and everything cycles fine. I will keep field stripping and assembling till I figure out why I have this problem. Tues. I will be putting a few hundred rounds through it and may be it will loosen up some. Now my hands are so sore I need gloves to rack and hold the slide and they just get in the way. John

9mmepiphany
August 11, 2012, 10:51 PM
I've had this happen before, sounds like you are installing the rear of the rod on the wrong step on the barrel foot...that is what fixed it for me.

I can't explain it further. I was shown the fix and just accepted it

carbonyl
August 12, 2012, 06:19 AM
I bought a 659 new in the mid 80's and had it until last year. This was always an on and off problem for me when reassembling the pistol. I would double check the position of the guide rod on the barrel and try to align the rod a strait as possible and this seemed to help some. Some times when I would see the rod didn't seat I would slightly cycle the slide and get it. Most times it would just be hit or miss. I admired the sturdy all SS build and looks of the gun but I could never shoot it well or get use to the fat grip. I bought a Ruger P95 and fell in love. Soon after this I sold the 659 to finance a SR9c. It never had a problem of any kind, function wise, in all the years I owned it, other than the pain in the --- reassembly problem mentioned above, it just wasn't the gun for me.

Plan2Live
August 12, 2012, 06:52 AM
Darn, sounds like you have hit a dead end. So rather than spend more time and more frustration on it, why don't you just box it up and send it my way? PM me and I'll give you my address or the address of my local FFL. :D

I'm sure my 459 would enjoy having a friend around from the same graduation class and I've always wanted one in stainless, just for looks, I promise to never fire it. :evil:

crooked stripe
August 12, 2012, 08:17 AM
Sounds familiar, made that same offer many times in the past and am still waiting on Pm's. Strange!

crooked stripe
August 12, 2012, 08:39 AM
Been thinking of the Rugers myself but, aren't they striker fired? I shot a friends SR9c a few weeks ago at a rapid fire match and didn't do well. I had to wait on the trigger to reset before the next shot. IMHO the return of the trigger to reset was almost as long as the initial pull. As mentioned in a past post my hands are so sore from wrestling that pistol around trying to pull the slide stop pin, put the pin in, hold back the slide, align the guide rod then give a twist in hopes it snaps in place, or not. To be honest I am not very happy with my purchase and will probably do something this week. Sorry for ranting, just hate things when they don't work the way they should. John

carbonyl
August 12, 2012, 03:17 PM
The P95 is DA/SA hammer fired just like the 659. The sr9c is striker fired. I could not hit anything with the 659 and figured it was all me then I bought the P95 on a whim and couldn't believe how much better I was with it. I got the sr9c because I liked the 95 so much and after I got use to the different pull of the striker I've become more accurate with it. You can't go wrong with either gun.:D Surprised to hear you had to wait on the trigger reset, mine shoots as fast as I can pull the trigger.

lloveless
August 12, 2012, 05:20 PM
I am really confused. You say you can't get it back together, yet you are handloading for it and shooting it. If you're shooting it then it is back togehter No? I have a Ruger Mark 2, that I have only field stripped twice cause it is such a pain. OTH I had a S&W 439 that I didn't have much problem field stripping. Good luck I feel your pain
ll

carbonyl
August 12, 2012, 06:36 PM
I think he eventually gets it back together, it just shouldn't be that difficult. I know his pain, I owned one.

Storm
August 13, 2012, 12:24 PM
The secret is to get the disk end of the recoil rod onto the correct step on the barrel. My 659 goes together about like any other of my 2nd and 3rd gen Smiths with the exception that the 659 has the barrel bushing.

As to the take down pin, a trick is to use the pointed end of a Bic pen to push out the pin. Some use the corner of a plastic magazine base plate to accomplish the same thing, but the mag in this gun has ametal base plate.

BTW, I would highly recommend Uncle Mikes rubber checkered grips for this gun. I put them on my 669 and 659 and I couldn't be happier.

Overall a great gun. Mine has a square trigger guard and adjustable sights, acquired used in pristine shape. While 3rd Gen Smiths have gotten a lot of attention, and rightly so, I find the 2nd Gen guns to also be great and pretty much still remain underrated. I wouldn't part with my 669, 645, or 659.

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