[2DREZQ]

I know most of you probably have giant gun vaults with Adamantium-armored doors and retina-scan locks.

I will never have that kind of money. I have relied on other means of protecting my guns; until now.

We had an incident which I don't want to bore you with the details, suffice to say a gun safe is now critical. However, my budget is VERY limited.

So i bought this:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/winchester-reg-gun-safe-24-gun-capacity-1043297
TSC is selling them for $699.99 and I will pick it up at the local store when I get home.

I know it isn't greatest, but it seemed like a deal to me, the identical safe online was around $1200 from other vendors, so I jumped.

The advice I need is this: I'm not an expert on safes, and a buddy of mine who is on an upward trajectory in his firearms purchases needs one. He has a much larger budget (he gets what he wants.)

So, in this general size, what do we recommend?

[303tom]

Those are great if you have just a few guns................

[mgkdrgn]

That's actually a pretty nice safe for the money. DON'T FORGET TO BOLT IT TO THE FLOOR.

For your bud ... nobody ever got fired for buying Liberty or Cannon safe. You -can- buy them over the interwebs, but keep in mind that when they are delivered they just dump 'em in your driveway (and the are a B*&(H to move on your own!)

Or, he could get two like the one you have, and have made out pretty well on the deal.

[TXdefender]

That Winchester is not a bad safe. My cousin bought same one from Tractor Supply about a year ago. I like the door panel and external hinges. I don't know about yours but the door to frame fit on my cousin's wasn't that tight and there are no door adjusters on his.

As far as your buddy the American Security BF series is a good way to go.

[HankB]

These days professionals don't call that a "safe", it's a "residential security cabinet." I'm not a big fan of electrical keypads - I've heard one too many stories of some "glitch" keeping the owner out.

A "safe" that size will have steel that's MUCH thicker, and will probably weigh over a ton. Few gunnies have those, they're more common in jewelry stores and with rare coin / bullion dealers.

The Winchester is probably on a par with anything else in that price range, and will provide a good measure of security against the most common "smash and grab" burglars. If the bad guys come prepared with heavy equipment - saws, torches, whatever - or are simply allowed to beat on it with sledgehammers or fire axes for a while without interruption, they'll probably get in.

I have a Cannon RSC myself, but I keep it in a closet that's out of sight to casual visitors, and bolted it to the slab.

Some folks use electrical heaters to prevent rust, but I use a couple of big cans of silica gel inside; no electrical stuff to go wrong, but a couple times a year I have to "bake" the silica gel in my oven to drive off the absorbed moisture.

On the other hand, you could always do something like this, which might be a tad more secure:

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/51914.jpg

[2DREZQ]

These days professionals don't call that a "safe", it's a "residential security cabinet." I'm not a big fan of electrical keypads - I've heard one too many stories of some "glitch" keeping the owner out.

you could always do something like this, which might be a tad more secure:

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/51914.jpg
Yeah, I'd love to have that setup! The only problem being the cost probably exceed my total net worth PLUS my credit limit.

Fun to look at, though.

[Reloadron]

The advice I need is this: I'm not an expert on safes, and a buddy of mine who is on an upward trajectory in his firearms purchases needs one. He has a much larger budget (he gets what he wants.)

When it was apparent a good safe was in order I actually took a vacation day from work after plenty of online homework. I went to the largest safe store in Cleveland, Ohio. I also looked at safes at the local Gander Mountain retail store. Learned more than I wanted to in a few days.

I liked the large showroom including all sorts of safes. A big selling point was not just guns but wife's jewelry as well as other important papers and documents we have. There was also a matter of how the interior could be rearranged for long and short guns.

So I suggest your friend shop with expansion in mind as well as what eventually the contents will be well beyond guns. I wanted to actually see these beast and then decide. Also, got a good deal on delivery and install. Oh yeah, another nice feature was the pockets in the inside door for hand guns and stuff.

Just My Take
Ron

[06]

Would consider trying to find one with an old fashioned mechanical dial. A lightning strike/ EMP hit would effectively keep you out. If you have a basement that is where I would put it (in case of fire). Bolted to an interior wall/and floor would slow a snatch it through the wall theft. Some crooks have roll backs with winches. Would invest in a camera system or at the least a game cam also. A bud lost his valuables to crooks with a crowbar--they had the entire day to play at it plus rummage his home completely.

[scaatylobo]

Get a real safe and bolt it to the floor and the wall AND in such a manner that the door/hinge is not available to be pried or tampered with.

Such as in a narrow closet with room to ope the door but no room for a hammer swing or a prybar.

I alarmed mine as well as bolted it.

[2DREZQ]

His will go in his basement, I believe. Mine will be on the main floor, bolted down in a closet. (bolted to a steel plate that is welded to the steel I-beam that supports the centerline of the house.)

I thought about taking it to the 2nd floor, but the wife vetoed that move.

As to real safes... I don't think a one-ton "safe" is ever going to be in my budget. I'd have to sell all my guns to buy it, then what would be the point?

[Reloadron]

Get a real safe and bolt it to the floor and the wall AND in such a manner that the door/hinge is not available to be pried or tampered with.

Get a safe where the bolts are also on the hinged side of the door.

Ron

[2DREZQ]

Get a safe where the bolts are also on the hinged side of the door.

Ron
The Winchester safe has bolts that extend up-down-left-and-right.

The hinges are only there to keep the door from falling off when it's unlocked :)

I did see a video once of pros opening a "safe" that didn't have hinge-side bolts. They used a really big crowbar, and it took, oh, about one minute.

[Walkalong]

Good job getting something to lock your guns up in. It is the responsible thing to do. It will keep children from getting into them and will protect you from most burglars.

The OP is right, most of us cannot afford the best there is out there. Getting something like this popular gun "safe" from Tractor Supply is a good start for anyone. Telling him to get a real safe is not helpful.

Congrats on your purchase. You are a great deal better protected now than you were. Bolting it down is always great advise. Makes it exponentially harder to move.

[CoRoMo]

...a buddy of mine ...needs one. He has a much larger budget...

So, in this general size, what do we recommend?
With a more flexible budget, I don't see any reason to stick with that size of container.

But if that's the size, then I'd say he could go with this one: http://www.sturdysafe.com/model2723.htm

With an upgrade to be fire insulated, 7 gauge stainless steel, the hard-plate upgrade, and the 10 gauge liner would make for as good a container as that size limitation should produce. The only thing that I know of exceeding that is a Graff-C series (http://www.thompsonsafes.com/c_series.htm).

[tuckerdog1]

Seems like every time one of these threads comes along, somebody has to belittle the RSC. Sure, we'd all like a "real" safe. I'd also like a Porsche 911. But real life says get the best you can "afford".

I did a lot of looking around when I was in the market for an RSC. I like to squeeze every penny I can out of my dollar when I spend it. I finally settled on the 39 gun model from these guys.

http://superiorlockandsafe.reachlocal.com/?scid=1168312&kw=2368869&pub_cr_id=7184603209

They deliver to your garage free. If you're military ( ex or active ) or law enforcement they give another 5% off.

Had it a couple years now & am still very pleased.

One bit of advise I kept seeing when I was in the market, was buy at least a size larger than you think you need. I did that, and it has proven to be good advise.

My wife likes it only because it's shiney.

Tuckerdog1

[2DREZQ]

Thanks to everybody for the input. I like the RSC real well.

I just wish I hadn't had to learn the hard way. The purchase was funded with the insurance payment on an irreplaceable family heirloom firearm. (and two very replaceable others.) Glad they didn't have time to clean me out. Having any of our evil black rifles get stolen would have really bothered me even more.

PERSEC: DO NOT let anyone know what you have, or where it is unless they NEED to know.

Then kill them afterwards. (j/k!)

[85win]

2DREZ,

Looks like a nice safe at a very good price point. Just out of curiosity do you know who the manufacturer of the safe is?

[Trent]

2DREZQ;

Sorry to hear about your losses, man. Inside jobs are the worst because that violates the trust you put in friends (who may be fine and trustworthy on their own, but have big gossiping mouths), or family (ditto).

[Ehtereon11B]

That safe is more or less the same safe I have except mine is a 36 gun safe and a 6 handgun door panel. Got my safe from the same store too. Keep an eye on that safe. Tractor supply has an occasional sale where they knock $100 of the price of all their safes. I saw the safe in TSC and loved it but couldn't get it because I didn't have my truck. Came in the next week and was marked $100 off making it $500.

If memory serves that particular safe weighs about 6-800 pounds empty. There is a magnet on the side that says. Full it can easily weigh about 1100-1200.

[Cesiumsponge]

With an upgrade to be fire insulated, 7 gauge stainless steel, the hard-plate upgrade, and the 10 gauge liner would make for as good a container as that size limitation should produce. The only thing that I know of exceeding that is a Graff-C series.

It is pointless paying for an upgrade to stainless steel on a sheet metal safe to resist torch attack. If you think a torch attack is a probable angle of attack in your home, you should already have stepped up your security to a safe with a C-rate 1/2" minimum plate steel or a composite designed safe. A torch attack is less probable than someone taking a cutting saw or drill/sawzall attack which would make short work of ferrous sheet metals. They also gain entry without destroying the contents with the heat from a torch. This is why Underwriter's Laboratories rates, in order of increased security, TL-rated safes which are power tool rated, then TRTL which are power tool and torch rated. The torch attack is less probable than powered tool attack.

There are a lot of safes that exceed 7ga steel. Not just the Graffunder C-series, but their entire product line from top to bottom start with B-rate 1/4" solid steel bodies on up unless we take the argument that cumulative metal barriers are the same as a single layer. I don't think anyone would argue that 250 layers of steel foil offers a similar or stronger barrier than a 1/4" plate of steel. American Security makes UL-rated TL-15 and TL-30 rated composite gun safes which exceed everything on the gun safe market. Brown Safe's entire product line starts at 1/4" steel bodies anf offers up to 1.5" solid steel doors. Hall Safe advertises their entire line of safes with 3/16-1" steel bodies. Yes, they're expensive but they're out there.

As long as you have layered security and you're an educated buyer who knows what a gun safe can do and what it cannot do, it's more than enough to keep your assets safe as long as you take some basic precautions. I just don't care much for the entire industry of gun safe marketing hype because the construction at the end of the day doesn't significantly differ from one safe to another. I also completely disagree with people saying you should buy a cavernous gun safe and put every single valuable thing you own in there. If you have the financial capability to buy enough guns to fill up a big safe, you're better off splitting your eggs into multiple baskets. You might even want a smaller, high grade safe for your most valuable, irreplaceable heirlooms and firearms while using a larger, more affordable safe for the rest of the collection.

[medalguy]

Definitely buy a bigger safe than you think you'll need. Funny how those long guns grow when in the safe.

Everyone agrees, bolt it to both the floor and a wall. Be sure it's level before bolting it down.

Also be sure your home is alarmed with a cellular backup. The first thing thieves will do is cut the phone lines, and your alarm is useless at that point.

Thieves will get into ANY kind of container if they have the time and tools. All you can do is slow them down, or make them want to go down the street.

[340PD]

The argument rages on as to all the things people like and wish they had on their gun storage facilities. Yours looks like it will serve you in a fine manner.

You should have the option to bolt it to the back wall and/or floor. I would do that. You should also make sure you have a plug in available inside your safe for a goldenrod for moisture control. I had to drill a small hole into the back wall of my safe, and thread a cut off extension cord through it, and re-attached a replacement plug end on the cord for power. A goldenrod is cheap insurance policy. The extension cord end inside the safe will also have another outlet on it for lighting if needed.

One last note. Talk to your tax man. Many times a safe is somewhat of a tax deduction if they are used to store tax records. That loophole may be closed but it is worth asking the question.
Enjoy your new safe.

[2DREZQ]

I believe they are manufactured by Granite Security Products here in the US. The smaller pistol vault ones may be made overseas.

I bought the size I could afford, and that will fit in the spot I have for it.

As to bolting it down; the bolts will go through the floor to two larg-ish 1/4 steel plates that will be welded to 1/4 steel "triangles" that will be welded to the enormous steel I-beam that holds up the center-line of my house. (Seriously, the people who moved the house onto this site must have gotten it surplus from his railroad job. I've seen smaller beams holding up stadiums.)

If they want the contents, loitering on-site and breaking in will be a better option than trying to steal the whole box. Increasing the level of difficulty and risk of discovery. I intend to hide a web camera (on a small UPS) above the safe, pointed at the person in front of it, recording of that (and the other new cameras) will be off-site.

Yes, I'm getting D*mn serious about all this. Once-bitten and all that.

[2DREZQ]

2DREZQ;

Sorry to hear about your losses, man. Inside jobs are the worst because that violates the trust you put in friends (who may be fine and trustworthy on their own, but have big gossiping mouths), or family (ditto).
Amen. Some people just CANNOT shut up!

The sick thing is that, even though we are 90% certain, there isn't a shred of physical evidence to proceed on. The cops DO know who to keep a eye on, so I keep hoping.

[Cesiumsponge]

Bolting to a giant steel i-beam won't gain you any more security than using oversized lag bolts in wood joists. Keep in mind the safe body is 10-12ga typically so the safe body will yield around the bolt holes before the flooring does, unless the floor of the safe is reinforced from deforming with additional plating. In any case, if the bolt holes are closer to the edge of the safe, it reduces the leverage vs. having bolts near the center of the safe. That should be more than sufficient for most attempts to pry a safe loose.

[BSA1]

I honestly don't understand the point of O.P.'s thread.

My response is to simply buy the best quality product your budget will allow. This is true regardless if it a camera, new TV or a gun safe.

The safe you purchased is a "real gun safe." As tuckerdog1 says "Seems like every time one of these threads comes along, somebody has to belittle the RSC."

If you gun collection outgrows your safe you can sale it to help buy a larger one or there is no rule with gun nuts about buying a second safe. :D

[Bubbles]

Seems like every time one of these threads comes along, somebody has to belittle the RSC.
With good reason. The RSC will deter the opportunistic thief, but not one who has specifically targeted your firearms, which is what the OP says happened to him.
Browning ProSteel Defeated (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=621436) - from the pics they figure the perp used a sawzall on it.

[Cesiumsponge]

People are poopooing RSC's because the gun safe industry is based on showboating and deceptive, inaccurate, or irrelevant claims. It would be fine if the industry was honest about the limitations and capabilities of their products. That gives you a real picture of any gaps in your security and how to augment a gun safe with other layers of protection. A serious security consultant will inform you of this. All I ask for is honest advertising so people don't buy into a false sense of security and know how to augment their home defenses.

A perfect example is how several manufacturers add stainless sheet metal as an option and advertise it as a torch-proof barrier. Notice gun safe companies don't advertise that they can withstand a basic cutting or grinding attack because only a couple could realistically stand up to a basic sawzall. Torches are right below explosives on the UL's "force continuum" of safe attacks. Power tools are the next step up from hand tools, not cutting torches and most people have the basic power tools in their garage that can open most gun safes in 5 minutes. Liberty Safe even let Dean Safe (a distributor) do a video series trashing their presidential line with four sticks of dynamite and a dozen feet of detcord simultaneously, suggesting it was a TXTL-30x6 or higher rated safe that coulz hang with $50,000+, 6000lb commercially insurable safes that can withstand explosives and thermic lance attack.

Most of the entire industry is built upon selling glossy sheet metal boxes. That's cool because it'll realistically stop a smash-and-grab thief. Most crooks won't even take time to break into locked desk or nightstand drawers. Just don't tell me how drywall will save my heirloom guns and important documents, photo albums and digital media and how a piece of stainless sheet will stop a torch attack while a sawzall will split it right open. If you have irreplaceable heirloom items, you're going to have to spend a bit more, or at the very least split the risk in half and double the time you buy with using two gun safes vs one. Not even used car salesmen will tell you a Geo Metro can outperform a Corvette.

[a1abdj]

I believe they are manufactured by Granite Security Products here in the US. The smaller pistol vault ones may be made overseas.


Granite stopped building safes in the US years ago. Everything they sell now is a low to mid level import.

Not even used car salesmen will tell you a Geo Metro can outperform a Corvette.

A really, really good used car salesman would. ;)