Colorado University to Segregate Dorm for Students with Gun Permits


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Hypnogator
August 17, 2012, 11:34 AM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/u-of-colorado-to-segregate-dorms-for-students-with-gun-permits/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Forced by the Colorado Supreme Court to allow students with concealed weapons permits to carry on campus, Colorado University now proposes to segregate such students in separate living facilities, will continue to ban possession in all other residences.

Can't be too careful -- look at all the massacres at Colorado State University since they allow concealed carry! :banghead::banghead::banghead::fire:

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Sam1911
August 17, 2012, 11:37 AM
Ok...frustration aside, that has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read! A school-MANDATED special-interest dorm for gun-folks? SIGN ME UP! :D

That out of the way...

Officials in Boulder say they can accomodate about 50 students with permits, although they don't expect to have that many.

The Post quotes a Colorado Springs university official as saying they estimate that fewer than 1 percent of their student-body population of nearly 10,000 will have a concealed-carry permit.



I think they're in for a very enlightening year... :D

Hypnogator
August 17, 2012, 11:45 AM
I think they're in for a very enlightening year...

Yeah. By their own estimates, 1% of the students have CW permits, and they have 10,000 students. By my math, that's ~ 100 concealed permit holders! ;)

KevininPa
August 17, 2012, 12:16 PM
...........figure out which dorm will have the least or no violent crime!;)

xwingband
August 17, 2012, 12:18 PM
Well, at the age of 21 they're probably right... very few stay in the dorms that long and the intersection of those groups is probably very small. In fact those that might have probably went off-campus for housing because of the policy, I did at my university.

tarosean
August 17, 2012, 12:25 PM
Don't see how discrimination will fly now-a-days.. What's next? Color of skin? Sexuality? Religion? They better start building a ton of dorms..

hso
August 17, 2012, 12:33 PM
The point has been made that the 21+ age of permit holders means that they're not likely to have to do this and 50 rooms may be generous.

Also, keep in mind that they may be providing ways to secure firearms in those dorms so that permit holders are not subject to the myriad risks of theft that occur on campus.

As Sam points out, a dorm for folks into shooting isn't automatically a bad thing.

tarosean
August 17, 2012, 12:37 PM
^ doesn't it negate the purpose of CCW and not knowing who is carrying?

hso
August 17, 2012, 12:40 PM
If you're one of hundreds in a dorm then who knows you're carrying unless they know you're in one of those rooms? If you're out of the dorm who's to know? It isn't any different now than it will be. Got a permit? Carry or not and keep quiet about it.

rodregier
August 17, 2012, 12:47 PM
Of course, all the *other* dorms will be de-facto gun-free zones. That can't possibly end badly. {sigh}

OTOH, anyone care to bet the maturity level of the "gun-dorm" residents will be higher? Almost be worth getting a permit for others just to be in a better environment.

Don't people go to university to get exposure to other cultures? Seems like the lawful gun culture has much to be admired :-)

JEB
August 17, 2012, 12:57 PM
so the university will find all the other gun guys for me and put me in a dorm building filled exclusivly with other shooters who all share my same intrests and hobbys?!? sweet! im almost dissappointed that i have been done with my college years for a while now.

shotgunjoel
August 17, 2012, 01:07 PM
Just wait until a student sues that he is being discriminated against, and that separate-but-equal (a la Plessy v. Ferguson) doesn't fly anymore, and the university has to admit that gun ownership is a civil right. I'd love to see that press conference.

JEB
August 17, 2012, 01:09 PM
Just wait until a student sues that he is being discriminated against, and that separate-but-equal (a la Plessy v. Ferguson) doesn't fly anymore, and the university has to admit that gun ownership is a civil right. I'd love to see that press conference.

yes indeed!!!

bigfatdave
August 17, 2012, 01:18 PM
So ... now where to lurk and rob/murder/rape students is now public knowledge AND sanctioned by the university?

What a boon to violent criminals!

tomrkba
August 17, 2012, 01:21 PM
This is discrimination based upon the exercise of a right.

WoodchuckAssassin
August 17, 2012, 01:24 PM
Some people might view this as discrimination, but I like to think of it as the creation of a fraternity without dues and hazing. Haha! I think It’s a great idea…well, everything except the part where you need to keep your gun in a safe when you’re not carrying it. Call me old fashioned, but I don’t think an intruder is going to wait for me to open my safe to defend myself. Then again, who’s robbing that dorm? :)

Dr T
August 17, 2012, 01:36 PM
Given the scarcity of secure student housing just up the road from me in Boulder (elder daughter went to CU before finishing her BSN in Texas), getting a concealed carry permit may become a viable strategy for getting safe, subsidized housing.

Odd Job
August 17, 2012, 01:40 PM
The real issue will come when the "firearm residences" become more expensive than the others...

Rob0321
August 17, 2012, 01:48 PM
As a 29 year old active duty serviceman who will be attending CU Boulder this year, I do applaud their efforts (I gave the Corps 11 years enlisted, now they are sending me to college for a bit). The campus police were very specific at orientation regarding CHL holders right to campus carry.

This is the article as originally published by the University :

http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/08/16/cu-boulder-announces-conditions-weapons-university-housing

Warp
August 17, 2012, 02:21 PM
The real issue will come when the "firearm residences" become more expensive than the others...

Or when somebody has a negligent discharge.

I wouldn't want to live in a dorm with nothing but other licensed college students because I have a feeling that environment will make many of them far too comfortable handling their guns, and we all know what the average shooter's gun handling/safety skills are like.

I can't help but forsee some guy pulling his pistol out of the holster in the hallway to show somebody when "it just goes off"

(and my claim is that if it were any other random dorm with anybody and everybody the gun wouldn't have come out of the holster to begin with...)

hso
August 17, 2012, 04:32 PM
discriminated against

It isn't discrimination under the law.

The university is providing housing to CCW holders who want their firearms on campus not herding them together. They're being accommodating.

shotgunjoel
August 17, 2012, 05:14 PM
hso, they are being told, from my understanding, that if they want to exercise their right, they aren't welcomed to live in the other dorms, and must live in that one. What if the university said that since people who protest are generally loud, they all have to live in one dorm and can't live in the others. Or that we should put all of the Muslim students in one dorm because their morning prayers could awaken other students? While I too appreciate that the university is trying to accommodate these students, they are still stomping on their rights by separating them.

mljdeckard
August 17, 2012, 05:23 PM
Echo post #2, 100%.

lathedog
August 17, 2012, 06:34 PM
I agree that it sends the wrong message, i.e. "it's OK to be segregationist"

However, I recall my college days and remember that a lot of the kids in the dorms were mind-blowingly immature and spastic. Imagine them deciding to play pranks on (or around) CCW holders.

It might be best to keep those dumb enough to trust the school for protection seperate from those with a more mature and realistic outlook. I bet the CCW dorm will be much quieter and polite overall. Probably cleaner too.

beatledog7
August 17, 2012, 07:29 PM
doesn't it negate the purpose of CCW and not knowing who is carrying?

Might as well have them all wear CCW badges to class.

USAF_Vet
August 17, 2012, 08:06 PM
Which dorms will be targeted for burglary during class hours?

This reeks of a privacy invasion and discrimination. On the surface, gun nuts might like it, but segregation is segregation. Do we really need to go back to the Seperate but Equal days?

Derry 1946
August 17, 2012, 08:47 PM
The court opinion concludes: "In sum, we hold that the CCA divests the Board of Regents of its authority to regulate concealed handgun possession on Campus." (Opinion Par. 30.). That does not sound like a prescription for segregated housing or requiring students to keep guns in a safe. Would have been a lot simpler if the state legislature had expressly divested the Board of its authority in the statute. The university policy equates concealed carry with creating an atmosphere
of intimidation. Sounds like further litigation is likely.

Skribs
August 17, 2012, 08:52 PM
I've always wondered what would happen if we took the US and divided it in half. One half gets Alaska gun laws, the other half gets NYC gun laws. See which side has a larger portion of the population, and which side has more crime.

4v50 Gary
August 17, 2012, 09:09 PM
Well then, there's going to be a crime free zone on campus. The muggings and rapes will occur elsewhere while the armed students will remain unmolested.

bigfatdave
August 17, 2012, 09:57 PM
a lot of the kids in the dorms were mind-blowingly immature and spastic
Those were adults.
Perhaps if they were expected to act like adults, instead of being infantalized by the educational system, they would act like adults.

You're 18 years old, you're an adult. Being "in college" doesn't negate that, no matter how many school administrators want you to believe otherwise. Those "kids" can vote, sign contracts, join the military, get married, rack up crushing debts, have a job, pay taxes, operate 3000# motorized battering rams in public, make their own medical choices, and even occasionally show up in class. Just because some of them are too sheltered/stupid/indoctrinated to realize it, they're still adults. Disarming them is unconstitutional, foolish, and unenforceable.
Of course the criminals LOVE it, having a ready supply of helpless victims incapable of self-sufficiency means that there's always a drunk to roll, always something to rape, always a car to jack ... just look for a clueless 18-22 year old "semi-adult" and intimidate them, followed by low-effort profit.

barnbwt
August 17, 2012, 10:07 PM
I wonder how often the fire department (and the police, who just happen to be there) will be entering these dorms. At my school, at least twice a week some idiot burned popcorn (or smoked pot), which set off the fire alarm, prompting a mandatory evacuation for ~30min. Meanwhile, the fire department (and police, who, again, just happened to be around) checked all rooms for non-evacuees (yeah, I'm sure that's why :rolleyes:) before declaring the building "safe" for us. This usually happend around 10pm, too, for some reason :cuss:. Not a huge deal for the unarmed, but if I had a gun in the room, I'd have not appreciated unattended strangers sauntering in with regularity.

At least off campus, the land-lord needs a maintenance reason to enter, and police need a warrant.

TCB

I've always wondered what would happen if we took the US and divided it in half. One half gets Alaska gun laws, the other half gets NYC gun laws. See which side has a larger portion of the population, and which side has more crime.

Mexico, anyone? And Canada needs to ban, in addition to its guns, objects sharper than a boiled egg; they've been finding too many people cut to bits up there lately. Guns don't dismember people, people...well you get the idea :uhoh:

Warp
August 17, 2012, 10:27 PM
Those were adults.
Perhaps if they were expected to act like adults, instead of being infantalized by the educational system, they would act like adults.

You're 18 years old, you're an adult. Being "in college" doesn't negate that, no matter how many school administrators want you to believe otherwise. Those "kids" can vote, sign contracts, join the military, get married, rack up crushing debts, have a job, pay taxes, operate 3000# motorized battering rams in public, make their own medical choices, and even occasionally show up in class. Just because some of them are too sheltered/stupid/indoctrinated to realize it, they're still adults. Disarming them is unconstitutional, foolish, and unenforceable.
Of course the criminals LOVE it, having a ready supply of helpless victims incapable of self-sufficiency means that there's always a drunk to roll, always something to rape, always a car to jack ... just look for a clueless 18-22 year old "semi-adult" and intimidate them, followed by low-effort profit.


^I'm with this guy^


Also...I grew up in a state where:

Colleges were not off limits
18 was the minimum age for a carry license
Carry licenses were shall issue with no training requirement
Bars were not off limits
Drinking while carrying was not illegal
The state was probably top 3 in terms of % of population licensed to carry

Guess what...it wasn't a problem!

orionengnr
August 17, 2012, 10:58 PM
Those were adults.
Perhaps if they were expected to act like adults, instead of being infantalized by the educational system, they would act like adults.

You're 18 years old, you're an adult. Being "in college" doesn't negate that, no matter how many school administrators want you to believe otherwise. Those "kids" can vote, sign contracts, join the military, get married, rack up crushing debts, have a job, pay taxes, operate 3000# motorized battering rams in public, make their own medical choices, and even occasionally show up in class. Just because some of them are too sheltered/stupid/indoctrinated to realize it, they're still adults. Disarming them is unconstitutional, foolish, and unenforceable.
Of course the criminals LOVE it, having a ready supply of helpless victims incapable of self-sufficiency means that there's always a drunk to roll, always something to rape, always a car to jack ... just look for a clueless 18-22 year old "semi-adult" and intimidate them, followed by low-effort profit.
__________________

Post of the Year. :)

natman
August 18, 2012, 03:43 AM
What's next, separate drinking fountains?

hso
August 23, 2012, 09:53 PM
No one applied for the graduate dorm with the carry rooms.

taliv
November 25, 2012, 11:47 PM
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/gun-dorms-attract-0-students-at-cu-campuses

still zero applicants. what's up?

Jorg Nysgerrig
November 25, 2012, 11:57 PM
I reckon it's still back to the idea that the few people who are over 21 and have permits probably live off campus.

Warp
November 26, 2012, 12:01 AM
I reckon it's still back to the idea that the few people who are over 21 and have permits probably live off campus.

Probably.

It's too bad Colorado doesn't issue permits at the age of 18. :(

hso
November 26, 2012, 01:36 AM
Much ado...

r1derbike
November 26, 2012, 03:22 AM
Who in their right mind would want to be in a dorm full of drunk frat-rats, who also happen to carry? Any takers?

9MMare
November 26, 2012, 03:34 AM
I find this troubling. By doing so, all students with guns are identified and their persons/rooms thereby become targets for theft. For people..criminals...to use to acquire firearms illegally.

I think that this retribution...yes punishment IMO....by the school could very well backfire on them. To stigmatize them. And yet, they would still blame the legitimate gun-owning students for any gun thefts (which the institution practically wrote an invitation for).

Warp
November 26, 2012, 01:32 PM
Who in their right mind would want to be in a dorm full of drunk frat-rats, who also happen to carry? Any takers?

I would be more than happy to live in a dorm with licensed carriers.

Your "drunk frat-rats" comment, though, reeks of the emotional drivel commonly spewed by anti gun individuals who do not have facts on their side.

*I'm pretty sure I did live in a dorm with licensed carriers, as I went to Purdue, where the minimum age to be issued a carry license is 18. Oh, and bars were legal for carry. In fact, drinking while carrying was legal.

If there have been a bunch of problems with "drunk frat-rats", well, I guess I somehow am not aware. You'll have to do the honor of filling me in. ;)


Can you show examples of college students, under the influence of alcohol, who are licensed carriers, doing something dangerous with their handguns?

hso
November 26, 2012, 03:12 PM
The dorm was for graduate students and would have had rooms for permit holders.
Folks with background checks and older than average students who've made a commitment beyond spending mommy's and daddy's money as the next thing to do after high school. The average unfocused college kids aren't who you're going to see there.

mgmorden
November 26, 2012, 03:30 PM
Who in their right mind would want to be in a dorm full of drunk frat-rats, who also happen to carry? Any takers?

Frats usually have their own dorms and/or housing. It would likely be separate. As noted though, your stereotype about "Frat-rats" toting guns is just as off-base and misinformed as those who think carriers are all a bunch of "Rednecks with guns".

The rednecks aren't as dumb as they think they are, and those "Frat-rats" aren't quite as immature is you think either.

wannabeagunsmith
November 26, 2012, 06:37 PM
Sounds like a rousin' good time to me.. just a bunch of "crazy" gun nuts thrown into the same building for all the "enlightened" students to avoid..

RFMan
November 27, 2012, 03:09 PM
The dorm was for graduate students and would have had rooms for permit holders.
Folks with background checks and older than average students who've made a commitment beyond spending mommy's and daddy's money as the next thing to do after high school. The average unfocused college kids aren't who you're going to see there.
I went to CU in the late 80s/early 90s for my PhD in EE. I lived in that dorm (the one for grad students and non-traditional [older, generally] students). We had some undergrads, but generally not freshmen/sophomores. It was pretty nice. Too bad I don't need to go back :)

SSN Vet
November 27, 2012, 04:26 PM
I'm in with the view that still living on campus at age of 21 is not where it's at.

mr.scott
November 27, 2012, 04:56 PM
It isn't discrimination under the law.

The university is providing housing to CCW holders who want their firearms on campus not herding them together. They're being accommodating.
so can we have a dorm that only black people can use because it "protects" them from the rest of the school population?
However you want to word it, it's discrimination to create separate conditions for different people.

Bubbles
November 27, 2012, 05:13 PM
Since I went to college primarily to get a degree and not party (geek is spelled with double-E :D) I moved into private, QUIET off-campus housing at the first opportunity.

Had there been an option to live with other grad students, who very likely have outgrown the undergrad stupidity, I would have jumped at the chance.

TrueTexan
November 27, 2012, 05:39 PM
Last article I read on this nobody signed up for the dorm

Warp
November 27, 2012, 07:42 PM
so can we have a dorm that only black people can use because it "protects" them from the rest of the school population?
However you want to word it, it's discrimination to create separate conditions for different people.

It is.

But gun owners are not a protected class.

Apparently you can discriminate under the law, as long as it isn't against a specifically protected class

rodregier
November 29, 2012, 01:04 PM
Probably make for more mature dorm neighbors. Sounds like a good thing :-)

natman
November 29, 2012, 04:32 PM
It is.

But gun owners are not a protected class.

Apparently you can discriminate under the law, as long as it isn't against a specificallyI protected class
Ah, so discrimination and prejudice are still OK, it's just that those discriminated against change with the whims of political fashion.

Much clearer now. :rolleyes:

akodo
November 29, 2012, 06:09 PM
I got news for you. The world revolves around discrimination.

At work we 'discriminate' against those who are habitually tardy. At college they discriminate against those who get bad grades (they either don't let them in, or they kick them out). At the restaurant I just visited they discriminate against those who have paid for their meals and can get free soda refills and those who just enter to play video games who don't. Most restaurants discriminate against those who wear no shoes and no shirt.

There are just a handful of discrimination types that are illegal: race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, nation of origin.

As 'packing a gun' isn't listed above, putting students who have CCW all in one doorm is NOT the same as putting all students of a specific religion in one dorm. It is similar to putting all the athletes in one dorm or all the engineers in one dorm, or all the people with pet goldfish in one dorm.


That being said, what is the plan for when a student who is living in a 'regular' dorm turns 21 and gets his CCW....are they going to force him to move?

Sleasys14
November 29, 2012, 06:13 PM
I wish where I lived only allowed CCWs. Then I might hang out with my neighbors.


Sent from my MiPhone !

Warp
November 29, 2012, 06:45 PM
Ah, so discrimination and prejudice are still OK, it's just that those discriminated against change with the whims of political fashion.

Much clearer now. :rolleyes:

If you don't like it, sue the federal government?

Derry 1946
January 27, 2013, 03:03 PM
There are just a handful of discrimination types that are illegal: race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, nation of origin.

Also age (Age Discrimination in Employment Act) and disability (Americans with Disabilities Act [Bush I] and ADA Amendments Act of 2008 [Bush II]). Not to mention the Genetic Information Non-Disclosure Act. But yes, gun ownership (or gun owners, or concealed carry permit holder) is not a protected class. :-)

d-dogg
January 27, 2013, 03:23 PM
I think they are on to something.

Let's do this on a larger scale.

The US should buy Baja California from Mexico. I think they offered it to us for peanuts a few years back.

We make it the 51st state, and move all the anti-s there. We put a policeman on every corner, paid with their state and personal property taxes. In fact, state income tax will be 100% of whatever is left over from their federal tax obligations. Everyone will receive an EBT card with just what the state believes they need to get by. No rich, no poor.

The new state will control every aspect of their lives.

-Only 3 channels of (state controlled) TV which go off air at 10:00 p.m. so everyone gets enough sleep.

- No fast food restaurants, so no one gets fat. 10 ounce sodas only.

- No gun or knife ownership. Steak knives are limited to one per person and may have only a 3.5" blade.

- Baseball bats must be registered with a proficiency test administered.

- Locks will be illegal as they would impede the police' ability to ensure no one owns contraband material which they could use to commit a crime.

- residents who feel someone else has more than they do can submit requests for personal property realignment at any time.

- health care and child care would be free, paid for of course by state and personal property taxes. Doctors could prescribe mandatory medications for anyone they deem is left or right of center.

- all goods would be rationed equally to prevent envy which might lead to a crime.

What a wonderful place this would be for the folks who do not believe in the US Constitution or Bill of Rights. They would still be citizens, but of course would not be bothered by free thinking, freedom loving Americans. They would be out of our hair and we would be out of theirs, just like at the University.

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