A small email to a "gun-free" store


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Green Lantern
August 19, 2012, 03:17 PM
I'm pretty happy with it, but am always in the market for constructive criticism.

"Opsec" and all, I'll just say it's a store owned by Variety Wholesalers Inc. I could be wrong, but it very much looks like the sign is a "corporate" thing, it's got the hours and other misc. info on it.

I have recently noticed signage on your ________ store in _______ indicating that no weapons are allowed. Therefore I will no longer conduct business with you and will encourage others to follow suit. You may think such a policy makes you safer, I strongly disagree. I'm guessing this policy was made with citizens who have been granted concealed carry permits in mind. But stop and think about what criminals would make of it. At best, an armed criminal will simply ignore the sign, of course.

But at worst...any intelligent criminal who is operating in an area where citizens can be allowed to carry guns must choose his targets wisely. Besides the police, he must also try to avoid any armed citizens that could thwart him. So-called "gun-free" zones, such as your store in ________, would then be a prime target!

That that you seem to distrust carry permit holders is secondary to the fact that your no-weapons policy endangers your shoppers and your employees, in my view. I urge you to re-think this bad policy choice.

I chose to focus not on why they should trust us, but why they should distrust the sign making them safer - as in, it's an invitation for a savvy criminal that does not want the risk of a CCWer ruining his day. I don't expect they give two craps about MY rights, but they might care more about the safety of THEIR employees (maybe!), and definitely about the safety of THEIR customers!

Ultimately, I would be fine carrying out my promise to go elsewhere if they don't change the sign. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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Kyl3
August 19, 2012, 05:55 PM
Personally, I would have tried to inform them of the disadvantages of a "gun-free zone" without saying you'll discontinue your business and try to get others to do the same... At least in the first email anyway.
But hopefully they will consider changing their policy. Good luck.

VPLthrneck
August 19, 2012, 08:49 PM
I would remove the line about not conducting business there until you get a reply email/letter back from whatever department or person you send it to. Depending on their answer then you could reply back with that response, but hopefully the reponse will be more positive.

I would change the part about CCW holders to say something that CCW holders have passed background checks and have undergone training in the proper use of defense and gun laws (depending on your state law--you'll have to check on this before adding it).

Also your sentence "At best, an armed criminal will simply ignore the sign, of course.", I'd change to say "This policy was obviously created by your legal department in an attempt to make your stores "safer," but criminals will simply ignore this sign."

lobo9er
August 19, 2012, 09:37 PM
you can fact check this but i believe CCW holders are 3 times less likely to commit a crime than a police officer. If that fact is found true by you also that may be a good thing to include.
Not to be nit picky your second paragraph I thnk could be re written. Facts make more of a statement than outlining a possible scenario, in my opinion. Just my 2 cents.

drsfmd
August 19, 2012, 09:58 PM
Property owners rights trump all... their building, their rules. You don't have to shop there. Letting them know why isn't a bad idea though.

Spats McGee
August 20, 2012, 01:49 PM
GL,
First of all, I'm going to be nitpicky about punctuation:
You may think such a policy makes you safer, I strongly disagree.
The quoted lines should either be: (1) separated by a semicolon; or (2) separated by a period. They are two separate sentences.

That said, it's a good email, otherwise. I don't know where you live, but the Texas Department of Safety (I think that's the name) actually has compiled statistics on crimes committed by the general public, and those committed by CCL holders. If you choose, as someone suggested, to show them the statistics, you can link to that page to show just how rare it actually is for CCL holders to commit crimes.

Guillermo
August 20, 2012, 03:47 PM
The premise that "Property owners rights trump all" is incorrect.

Judge Napolitano explains it well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wgkh5MeE

BTW, I would point out the liability increases if an incident were to occur.

Example: in my will I require my estate to sue a business that might be complicit in my death if they disarmed me.

Ryanxia
August 20, 2012, 08:50 PM
That's an interesting view. I'm surprised to see a Judge saying it, someone get that man a (Taurus) Judge of his own :D

Green Lantern
August 23, 2012, 09:07 PM
I would remove the line about not conducting business there until you get a reply email/letter back from whatever department or person you send it to.

Personally, I would have tried to inform them of the disadvantages of a "gun-free zone" without saying you'll discontinue your business and try to get others to do the same... At least in the first email anyway.

...I think that's the first time I'd ever heard that suggestion, which actually isn't such a bad idea at all. That way, not knowing where I stand, they have little choice but to be totally up-front about how it is and why it is and hope for the best.

First of all, I'm going to be nitpicky about punctuation:

D'OH!

splattergun
August 23, 2012, 09:38 PM
I might have mentioned that I would feel very unsafe in a no-arms business.
Also, it might not be a bad idea to note a short list of shootings at no-arms business, such as the recent theater shootings in CO.

joneb
August 23, 2012, 11:46 PM
Instead of a store owner posting a Gun Free Zone they should post a Crime Free Zone, the results would be the same. What a bunch of morons :banghead:
If I were a criminal Gun Free Zones would seem ripe for the picking.

I want a tee shirt that says Gun Free Zone on the front, and a target on the back :D

JERRY
August 24, 2012, 12:04 AM
too much blabbing....do you want them to read it or toss it after three lines?

short and sweet without being too narrow....

joneb
August 24, 2012, 12:20 AM
Well we have warning labels on just about everything, how about a warning posted on every Gun Free Zone sign......... It would read something like this..... "This Is a Gun Free Zone", "WARNING Enter at Your Own Risk, Everyone Here is Unarmed Except the Criminals".

Green Lantern
October 2, 2012, 09:36 PM
Had my "spit take" moment for the day today upon checking email:

Thank you for your email. I have forwarded the email to our Executive Vice President of Stores. Your comments have been valuable in making a decision to remove the signage. It will take further action still to remove all signage from all stores and to rewrite policy, but the first step has been made to do so.

:eek:
.....
Groovy. :cool:

janedoedad
October 2, 2012, 10:15 PM
WooHoo!!!

Nicely done!

WNC Seabee
October 2, 2012, 10:21 PM
Great job!

Be sure to send a big THANK YOU and maybe a scan of a recent receipt.

hso
October 2, 2012, 10:29 PM
Outstanding!

RmB
October 2, 2012, 11:03 PM
That's great!

firesky101
October 2, 2012, 11:16 PM
wow... All to often we are shot down, so to speak. It is inspiring and reinvigorating to get a win.

tyeo098
October 3, 2012, 11:46 AM
That was... unexpected.
Maybe a straw-that-broke-the-camels-back kind of situation?

Lets see if they actually put their money where their mouth is...

Spats McGee
October 3, 2012, 08:48 PM
Wow! Well, THAT response was unexpected.

12gaugeTim
October 3, 2012, 09:00 PM
Dang!
Good job!

Bullnettles
October 5, 2012, 12:58 AM
This gives me hope. I've been meaning to send one to Jared's Jewelers for the longest...

JEB
October 5, 2012, 12:17 PM
wow, thats impressive!

~Abstract~
October 5, 2012, 02:59 PM
Awesome!

What's the name of the store? I'd like to send them some business.

jon_in_wv
October 5, 2012, 07:23 PM
I sent a similar email to Cinemark. It was ignored as I guessed it would.

ugaarguy
October 6, 2012, 04:45 AM
Well done sir.

M2
October 7, 2012, 10:05 AM
What "OPSEC?" If they publicly display the sign, there is no need to protect their identity. I submit you post the name and location of the store in question, as it serves two purposes: 1) to warn others about this policy in case they weren't aware and 2) it allows fellow enthusiasts to join in on the campaign.

Businesses need to know the ramifications of such signs, here in Texas we have the 30.06 sign requirement which means certain requirements must be met to make the sign enforceable. That leads to many businesses that display illegal signs to make their unknowing customers feel "safe" while in fact allowing CHL holders to carry on the premises without worry.

Cheers! M2

dasiebe
October 7, 2012, 10:32 PM
I'm pretty happy with it, but am always in the market for constructive criticism.

"Opsec" and all, I'll just say it's a store owned by Variety Wholesalers Inc. I could be wrong, but it very much looks like the sign is a "corporate" thing, it's got the hours and other misc. info on it.

Quote:

I have recently noticed signage on your ________ store in _______ indicating that no weapons are allowed. Therefore I will no longer conduct business with you and will encourage others to follow suit. You may think such a policy makes you safer, I strongly disagree. I'm guessing this policy was made with citizens who have been granted concealed carry permits in mind. But stop and think about what criminals would make of it. At best, an armed criminal will simply ignore the sign, of course.

But at worst...any intelligent criminal who is operating in an area where citizens can be allowed to carry guns must choose his targets wisely. Besides the police, he must also try to avoid any armed citizens that could thwart him. So-called "gun-free" zones, such as your store in ________, would then be a prime target!

That that you seem to distrust carry permit holders is secondary to the fact that your no-weapons policy endangers your shoppers and your employees, in my view. I urge you to re-think this bad policy choice.

I chose to focus not on why they should trust us, but why they should distrust the sign making them safer - as in, it's an invitation for a savvy criminal that does not want the risk of a CCWer ruining his day. I don't expect they give two craps about MY rights, but they might care more about the safety of THEIR employees (maybe!), and definitely about the safety of THEIR customers!

Ultimately, I would be fine carrying out my promise to go elsewhere if they don't change the sign. But nothing ventured, nothing gained.




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VPLthrneck
October 9, 2012, 11:34 PM
Good Job! A positive outcome for sure!

cor_man257
October 12, 2012, 09:13 AM
This is amazing. I'm really impressed. It's the first time I have seen an Email about this type of issue work (or appear to work).

Great job doing the right thing for RTKBA.

Green Lantern
November 4, 2012, 01:11 PM
Just updating, they made good on the promise to remove the sign!

58limited
November 10, 2012, 09:41 AM
This is awesome. I'm glad that some stores actually listen to their clientele. Thanks for helping them to see the light.

Yanus
November 12, 2012, 02:49 PM
Very well done!
Here in Texas, we call it the "30.06" sign. You have to LOVE the irony!:)
In this economy, businesses can ill afford to alienate customers. Now, if
somebody would come up with a vehicle to inform businesses of just how many there are of us who carry legally, we could change a lot of minds. I believe businesses would embrace us instead of trying to shun us.

Double Naught Spy
November 12, 2012, 04:36 PM
So what store was it that we might know and with whom we might consider doing business if we don't already?

joneb
December 16, 2012, 10:03 PM
Here is my question to any business that is a self proclaimed GUN FREE ZONE. What security measures do YOU have in place to protect me in your store ? And what security measures do have in place that would keep a criminal for stealing my concealed carry weapon for my vehicle and killing everyone in this store ?
Anyone that thinks a gun free zone is a good idea is a F'n Idiot.

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