guns from pawn shops


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thomis
August 22, 2012, 02:05 PM
I've always wondered how pawn shops get away with it. How it's legal to sell a gun to any member of the public, not knowing where the gun came from, and knowing there is a real good chance it was stolen from somewhere.

I am looking at a shotgun at the local pawn shop that has a man's name scratched into the receiver. I almost walked out with it but I decided to go home and do a little research. So I googled the man's name. Turns out he's a convicted felon (bank robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, and more). You might say, aw it's coincidental but not hardly. The convicted felon is from a city adjacent to the city I live in, where the pawn ship is. I'm just curious, it may be perfectly legal....would you buy it?

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rcmodel
August 22, 2012, 02:12 PM
Pawn shops that buy stolen goods will rather quickly find themselves in trouble with the law.

And their Federal Firearms License would be revoked if they were found guilty of buying or selling stolen goods.

I wouldn't buy a gun with someones name scratched in it, regardless of who's name it was.

rc

MedWheeler
August 22, 2012, 02:12 PM
If I wanted it, yes, I'd buy it. Law enforcement agencies frequently have "pawn shop details" that check with the shops on a monthly basis. Shops that take these kinds of things in are frequently required to hold them until the PSD has checked them, and firearms are usually at the top of the list. The chances of buying a "hot" gun from a reputable, well-established pawnbroker are slim.
Beyond that, they can sell to anyone a gun shop can, and in the same manner. Perhaps that gun you looked at was acquired before the man whose name graces it became a prohibited person..?

joed
August 22, 2012, 02:17 PM
I've bought guns from pawn shops and never had a problem. You still fill out a form and send it in to the Feds. If a gun was stolen I'd bet it would be found fairly quickly.

Why wouldn't you buy that shotgun. Did you ever think he had to get rid of it because of his record so pawned it. And can you say that shotgun was really his?

I buy from pawn shops as long as the price is good. Couple years ago I got a Python for $450.

NavyLCDR
August 22, 2012, 02:23 PM
Perhaps that gun you looked at was acquired before the man whose name graces it became a prohibited person..?

Or it was acquired by the pawn shop after he became a prohibited person. There is no law against felons selling their guns - that's one way to legally dispose of them when they do become prohibited.

I've bought at least one rifle from a pawn shop. Most of the time they are priced too high.

I've always wondered how pawn shops get away with it. How it's legal to sell a gun to any member of the public, not knowing where the gun came from, and knowing there is a real good chance it was stolen from somewhere.

How is that any different than buying a gun from a stranger that posts it for sale on gunbroker or right here on THR? There is no more chance of it being stolen because it goes through a pawn shop.

Godsgunman
August 22, 2012, 02:26 PM
I deal with a pawn shop on a regular basis and mine will hold the gun for 2 weeks when "joe schmoe" walks in wanting to sell a gun so they can run the serial number and check any history if there is any to be found and keep an extensive log. I don't know if every pawn shop does this so I would ask yours if they do. I have no qualm with buying any firearm from my pawnshop because of their practice. Its safe for them and safe for me. If they were to happen to sell a "bad" firearm it would fall on them, not you since you have no way or responsibility of doing the background stuff when dealing with a FFL. Their responsibility to make sure they are selling legal firearms. Just my opinion though so take it for what its worth, .02?

Trent
August 22, 2012, 02:37 PM
My local pawn shop also runs the serial #'s against the local PD to see if it's stolen.

Since an FFL has to have photo ID and full contact information on the "books" when a gun is brought in, pawn shops are actually a very GOOD way to A) bust the person who stole the gun and B) get stolen guns returned to their proper owners.

I have no reservations whatsoever about buying a gun in a pawn shop.

I have MANY reservations about buying a gun on gun broker.

Doesn't take much to put up an auction with fake pictures and collect one or more cashier's checks. Some guns, particularly exotics and rares, can bring in big bucks - you bet your bottom dollar there are crooks who know and exploit this.

Trent
August 22, 2012, 02:40 PM
Also - worth noting - I have a friend (who at the time was president of the local range) who had a gun CONFISCATED from him.

He bought the gun on gunbroker.

He had it transferred through a local FFL, did the 4473.

He took possession of it.

Three WEEKS later he got a visit from a sheriff's deputy demanding the firearm. It turns out it was stolen.

The original owner had been scanning gunbroker listings and saw HIS firearm with HIS serial # on the auction, and notified the ATF, who contacted the local PD's involved and got the weapon returned to him.

My friend did NOT get reimbursed for his $400+ purchase. He was out the money. I would imagine that if they caught the person who stole the gun, that he MIGHT eventually get some court ordered restitution but it's highly unlikely, and he's not holding his breath.

alsaqr
August 22, 2012, 02:53 PM
Pawn shops that buy stolen goods will rather quickly find themselves in trouble with the law.

Not in Oklahoma. The pawnshop lobby here has more pull than a D6 dozer. Years ago the OK legislature passed the pawnshop act after a multi millionaire pawn broker went to prison for receiving stolen property. The purpose of the pawnshop act is to protect pawnbrokers from charges of receiving stolen property. :mad:

If you find your stolen stuff in a pawnshop the only legal way to get it back is to buy it.

henschman
August 22, 2012, 02:58 PM
I don't think it is reasonable to assume that a gun is stolen unless you have some specific knowledge that would indicate this. Just being at a pawn shop or being sold by a private seller does not even come close to this.

Also, having a gun that was once owned by a convicted felon (who engraved his name on it) is no problem for you the buyer. Hell, that's probably why he pawned it -- because he picked up a felony and legally had to get rid of it, or needed it to pay his lawyer or court costs or something. What worries you about this situation? If the guy stole the gun, he probably wouldn't put his name on it.

I once bought a Glock 17 and a Taurus .25 in a private sale, which turned out to be stolen. As usually happens in this situation, I did not get my money back from the guy I bought them from. I was planning on selling them at the next gun show -- I wish I would have, so I wouldn't have been the one who had to take the loss when the ATF took them back. Oh well, I suppose that is just part of the cost of doing business if you buy and sell a lot of guns.

Doing anonymous cash deals is the best way to mitigate this risk. Unfortunately in my case, the guy I bought the guns from knew my name and phone number because he was an acquaintance.

NavyLCDR
August 22, 2012, 03:08 PM
Since an FFL has to have photo ID and full contact information on the "books" when a gun is brought in,

Not a requirement in Federal law. 27 CFR 478.125(e):

(e) ... The purchase or other
acquisition of a firearm shall, except as
provided in paragraph (g) of this section,
be recorded not later than the close of the
next business day following the date of
such purchase or acquisition. The record
shall show the date of receipt, the name
and address or the name and license
number of the person from whom received,
the name of the manufacturer and
importer (if any), the model, serial number,
type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm.
...

There is no requirement for the FFL to verify the name and address of the person from whom the firearm was received, nor for the FFL to see or obtain a copy of any photo ID when receiving a firearm. I can sell a firearm to an FFL simply by saying I am John Smith and live at 123 Main Street and the FFL writes that information down. State law may have further requirements for pawn shops and/or firearms transactions.

45_auto
August 22, 2012, 03:14 PM
How it's legal to sell a gun to any member of the public

Pawn shops have to do a NICS check, just like a real gun shop (they are a real gun shop, to deal in firearms they musty have an FFL).

not knowing where the gun came from

The pawn shop owner is required to record the person's identification of EVERYTHING he takes in, not just guns. So he knows exactly who it came from.

knowing there is a real good chance it was stolen from somewhere.

The police here run the numbers of every pawned gun and many other commonly stolen items through the NCIC database. If the item was stolen, they have the info from the guy's ID that pawned it to go pick him up.

Buying a gun from a pawn shop is one of the most secure ways I could imagine to buy a gun.

I wouldn't buy a gun with someones name scratched in it, regardless of who's name it was.

Do you at a minimum remove the grips from every used handgun before you buy it, and the stock and fore-end from every used rifle and shotgun? Sometimes you'll find a name scratched somewhere it can't be seen without some major disassembly. I've seen them scratched on the frame under the rebound slide on an S&W revolver, and under the butt plate on a Winchester 94, as well as the more typical places under the stocks and grips.

Trent
August 22, 2012, 03:23 PM
Not a requirement in Federal law. 27 CFR 478.125(e):



There is no requirement for the FFL to verify the name and address of the person from whom the firearm was received, nor for the FFL to see or obtain a copy of any photo ID when receiving a firearm. I can sell a firearm to an FFL simply by saying I am John Smith and live at 123 Main Street and the FFL writes that information down. State law may have further requirements for pawn shops and/or firearms transactions.

Yup, should have qualified that statement as "in Illinois".

For every firearms transaction we have to keep a copy of the seller's FOID information on file for 10 years.

(430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-3)
(b) Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred any firearm, stun gun, or taser shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer. Such record shall contain the date of the transfer; the description, serial number or other information identifying the firearm, stun gun, or taser if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearm Owner's Identification Card number. On or after January 1, 2006, the record shall contain the date of application for transfer of the firearm. On demand of a peace officer such transferor shall produce for inspection such record of transfer. If the transfer or sale took place at a gun show, the record shall include the unique identification number. Failure to record the unique identification number is a petty offense.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1657&ChapAct=430%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B65%2F&ChapterID=39&ChapterName=PUBLIC%2BSAFETY&ActName=Firearm%2BOwners%2BIdentification%2BCard%2BAct%2E

hermannr
August 22, 2012, 03:31 PM
Our local pawn shop is Dave's Gun and Pawn...look at the name...yep, it is a gun shop first, pawn shop second. Very good place to do business.

Yes, I have purchased several guns from that pawn shop, and have standing orders in for guns I am looking for and the price range I am willing to pay. He does a lot of consignment selling and the last 4 guns I have purchased came through him at very good prices.

BTW: It is my understanding that, at least here in WA, if a pawn shop unintentially receives stolen goods, the goods are returned to the owner, and the pawn shop is out whatever they paid for the item. If the police have reason to believe the receipt may not be unintentional, it is possible to procecute, but I think that would be only to a shop that has been found with a lot of stolen property over time (showing a pattern of taking anything, no questions asked)

armoredman
August 22, 2012, 04:59 PM
I worked at two gunshops in Tucson, AZ. One time it was discovered that a firearm that had been taken in was stolen. A detective came by and recovered the firearm plus the information from the shop owner on who had sold it. the shop was out the money, with only the option of suing the fraudulent seller - but that trail went back many years and owners, and the original thief had sold it many years prior. I am told the original owner was overjoyed - it was in excellent condition.
At both gun shops I worked at it was quite normal to request a photo ID from anyone selling a firearm, for the bound book.
The pawn shop I deal with is an excellent FFL, and very professional about it - I don't worry about guns I get from that location.

CoRoMo
August 22, 2012, 05:21 PM
I've always wondered how pawn shops get away with it.
You are speaking from an erroneous assumption if you think pawn shops operate loosely with no ATF oversight.

content
August 22, 2012, 06:08 PM
Hello friends and neighbors // Know your stuff when buying from a pawn shop.

Other than that they are a great place to find unusual guns and usually willing to accept reasonable offers of cold hard cash.

As far as I know they follow every ATF rule, we always fill out the 4473 a few even note my eye color for some reason.
Some take your license before you handle a gun so it won't get stolen from them.

When I've asked pawn shop owners what they make the most money on, normally guns come before gold.
I doubt they would do anything to damage their ability to make money.

I seem to remember one of the local guns shops getting a few semiautos from the local PD that had been used in crimes(not the guns fault) but they were missing the mags.
Could this be the case in your area?

...Name on gun... Unless it was something rare or something I'd been searching for I'd pass reguardless of the persons record.

armoredman
August 22, 2012, 07:30 PM
In Arizona crime guns have to be offered for sale instead of being destroyed. Just like Forrest Gump said, "You never know what you're going to get." :)

oneounceload
August 22, 2012, 07:54 PM
. You still fill out a form and send it in to the Feds. If a gun was stolen I'd bet it would be found fairly quickly.


HUH? WHAT form is sent in? There isn't one, and the call does not mention anything about the gun or serial number

bikemutt
August 22, 2012, 08:26 PM
The pawnshops I deal with here in western WA all have to hold merchandise 30 days before they can sell it, presumably there is some way this helps law enforcement discover the fencing of stolen property.

In certain cities in WA it goes one step further; the seller (person pawning) has to agree to a thumbprint on a local PD form, who knows if they actually run the print. I had to do this when I traded a shotgun in Lynnwood, WA. I wasn't amused but them's the rules; the shop had the only new Browning model in the US that I wanted.

I like pawnshops, visited three of them today, sad to say no old Smiths worth buying that I don't already own :(

barnbwt
August 22, 2012, 10:42 PM
^^^^^ I had a car radio stolen once, and I drove around the pawn shops looking for it for a day or two until I learned about the cooling off period. Even if my radio had been turned in, it sits in the back waiting to be inspected/reported to police as stolen for a month before going public.

Most of the time they are priced too high.

Precisely. Most shops I see subscribe to the "buy at 1/3 of the sellable cost, resell at 2/3 of factory new cost" mantra, making them very terrible buys unless a special/rare gun slips through disguised as something cheap.

TCB

tyeo098
August 22, 2012, 10:52 PM
I bought a Marlin Model 60 Glennfield at a pawn shop in Melbourne, Fl.

80$. This was in 2009 too.

Here in NOVA.. fuhghedaboudit.

murdoc rose
August 22, 2012, 10:59 PM
Buying from a pawn shop is probably one of the best ways to prove it hasn't been reported stolen.

shiftyer1
August 22, 2012, 11:27 PM
If you find your stolen stuff in a pawnshop the only legal way to get it back is to buy it.

This is false unless ok is VERY different from TX

Peoples assumptions about pawns shops are very wrong. We do everything we can NOT to receive stolen goods. We get screwed also when we have. Sometimes we get some restitution which normally comes out to 4 or 5 bucks every blue moon.

If something has initials, names, id # or ss # written or engaved on it.......it needs to match pawners credentials. If ur names bob and your friends call u freddy sugerbritches.....mark your stuff with bob, if u ever plan on pawning it. Unless you buy it from me and I can verify that if you pawn it back to me.....or show me a recept from other shop.

In 12 years time every shop i've worked in has done their best to cooperate with police and get your stolen goods back.

We can even be fined if the pawn ticket is printed offline or crooked. Check out the texas office of consumer credit pawnshop laws....you'll probably be surprised at how strict they are. I realize some states may differ but I don't think they would be too different from texas. And yes we do get audited a few times a year, those guys ain't all that friendly.

If you think a pawnshop is over charging you on interest, or some how crooked.....that is your complaint department. Keep in mind this is not for disagreements with a return policy. If you can't hear me when I inform you of it, or can't read the large print on your receipt or read the signs.......i'm sorry but there ain't one.

Tim the student
August 22, 2012, 11:51 PM
If the price was right - adjusted for the defacement - and I wanted it, sure I'd buy it. Why wouldn't I?

Davek1977
August 23, 2012, 01:10 AM
I guess I don't understand the concern buying from a pawn shop vs buying a used gun from a "gun shop". Despite the name, both are subject to following the same laws when it comes to gun sales. Buying a stolen firearm is a risk....typically a minute one, but a risk all the same, when purchasing a used firearm anywhere. However, the risks incurred from buying from a pawn shop are no greater than buying from any other ffl holder.

wideym
August 23, 2012, 01:56 AM
I work in a gunshop which is attached to a pawnshop. Anyone selling or pawning an item has to show a drivers licence from which we take the name, licence number, and address. That information plus the item and any serial number is forwarded to the local PD for a program called "leads online".

Local detectives run the info against stolen items reported nation wide. We also hold the item for 10 days, just incase it was stolen and we don't re-sell it before it's reported to us.

Reported stolen items will be returned to the owner, only if they pay us what we paid for the item, No more and no less. The original owner must get restitution from the criminal (usually they don't recieve a dime) to recoup their money.

Since working at the gunshop, we have had two stolen guns turn up, an XD and a bolt action rifle, so far only the owner of the XD has picked up his gun.

Having the serial numbers of your guns along with a good discription of accesories (case, scope, holster, ect..) is always a good idea. On several occasions we have had people claim that a gun on the rack was stolen from them (usually by a relative) but never have a police report or are willing to file one.

2261
November 20, 2012, 05:36 AM
There are plenty of pawn shop/gun-shops that purchase bulk confiscated firearms from many Police Agencies. Used to be a regular thing done by most but the last few decades it has become more politically incorrect and many PD's have ceased the practice.

I shop at one in Georgia that routinely buys up used issue weapons as well as confiscated weapons (there is a process to clear the serial #) for resale when they order new side arms for the agencies in question.

Not a big deal.

Double Naught Spy
November 20, 2012, 06:08 AM
I've always wondered how pawn shops get away with it. How it's legal to sell a gun to any member of the public, not knowing where the gun came from, and knowing there is a real good chance it was stolen from somewhere.

Wow, that would be just like gun shops do with used guns too.

As for "knowing there is a real good chance it was stolen from somewhere," that is about 98-99% wrong. Except maybe in Oklahoma, most state pawn laws are very restrictive. Everything gets checked by the cops, especially guns. Pawn shops turn out to be very poor places to knowingly sell stolen items. As a result and unless the pawnbroker is intentionally breaking the law, extremely little of what a pawn shop even takes in is stolen or otherwise reported lost.

The OP's assessment is based on historical predjudice (which does have some real basis) that is about 50 years out of date in much if not most of the country.

fatcat4620
November 20, 2012, 07:54 AM
Whenever I get a chuck on cash the first thing I do is look at all the pawn shops. Prices are always marked high but cash talks very loud in these places.

beatledog7
November 20, 2012, 08:10 AM
I have bought pawn shop guns, at least one I can think of, from a shop that is also a range and gun store. No worries there. Prices are usually too high, but the buyer needs to know that dealers have to be willing to negotiate do varying degrees. Never pay the ticket price for a used gun; it's at least 20% over what the seller really thinks he can get. Why prove him wrong by being the uninformed buyer he hoped for?

I have little interest in a gun with, shall we say, aftermarket etchings. If I really wanted the gun in spite of the markings, I would darn sure make sure the seller thinks otherwise.

So I googled the man's name. Turns out he's a convicted felon

As to this point, I know the OP went on to say the person he looked up lives a town away, etc., but come on. Names aren't protected by any sort of copyright law, and it's a bit of a stretch to make this link with no proof.

I know from digging into why I get delayed when buying a firearm that there is a registered sex offender with the same first and last name I have living in the next city. If the OP was thinking about doing a deal with me, and he did his Whoogle search, he might find that guy and with no further research decide the deal's off. That would be unfortunate.

Sav .250
November 20, 2012, 08:15 AM
When in doubt............keep looking.

Carl N. Brown
November 20, 2012, 08:18 AM
The local gun dealer told me about a memeber of the local gun club who has a federal fugitive arrest record--mistaken identity on a traffic stop, but same first and last name. Google your name and see what shows up.

Anyway,
I've always wondered how pawn shops get away with it. How it's legal to sell a gun to any member of the public, not knowing where the gun came from, and knowing there is a real good chance it was stolen from somewhere.

Locally pawnshops are required to report ser. nos. of pawned guns to the police at the end of the day; overnight, they are run against the NCIC (federal database on stolen goods). (I have been present at the local gunshop when the owner called in used gun numbers to the police for an NCIC check, so I am under the impression used guns are checked at regular FFLs also.)

Since the 1968 Gun Control Act, pawnshops have to have a federal license to deal in firearms and if anything are treated with more suspicion than regular gunshops.

So what exactly are pawn shops "getting away with"?

My preference for buying used guns from a gunshop rather than a pawnshop is based solely on the fact that the local gun dealer takes his used guns to the local gun club and testfires them at the range. He's a military vet, long time hunter, farmer and competitive shooter and knows guns. When my son was looking at a used 336C, the dealer closed the shop, we went to the range, and he let my son testfire the gun himself before buying. Pawn shops usually don't know guns and sell used guns as-is. There may be exceptions, but I have not seen them.

Now I do know from 1970s anecdotes that there were (maybe still are) some unscrupulous pawnshops that sell questionable guns under the counter. They get caught around here and put out of business.

Analogkid
November 20, 2012, 08:39 AM
Even with everything gun shops do to try and make sure the gun is not stolen sometimes it is anyway.

I purchased a nice little pocket revolver from a pawn shop in Southern Mo while visiting some family.
I had it about 10 months and then got a call from the sherriffs office of that town stating the gun was stolen and I needed to return it or drop it off at the Local police Dept. I told them I would call them back. A friend in the Pawn industry told me to return the firearm to the Pawn shop to be reimbursed.
This was after a trigger job, handmade grips and a custom IWB had been made for the gun. I knew I wouldn't get that back but I wanted to be reimbursed for a gun I purchased legally and went through a bgc for.

I called the pawn broker and he acted like he had been trying to reach me all day. Which just wasn't the case. If I returned the gun to the Sheriff I would have never got reimbursed. I told him I wanted to bring the gun in for a refund and he hesitated and then said ok. Unbeknownst to him I was less than 5 minutes away. I ended up trading the gun even for a lever rifle so we were both happy.

The reason we found out it was stolen was just a shame. A elderly man with the onset of dementia had a small collection of nice handguns in a safe in his house. His daughters cared for him while his youngest Son came into the house while they were gone and stole from them.
After it was determined that the father needed to have more care than the Sisters could give him they moved him to a retirement home and prepared the house for sale. When they opened the safe it was cleaned out. The son had went around to every pawnshop in a 75 mile radius and sold his fathers guns to support a drug habit. It was 10 months after he sold them that the sisters reported them stolen.

Such a shame..

Fotno
November 20, 2012, 09:05 AM
The last three firearms I've bought, came from a Gun/Pawn shop. All three were brand new firearms, but I would have no hesitation buying used from these gentlemen. They have a reputation in our community of reporting suspicious items, and supporting local law enforcement. In fact, the friend who first told me about the place is a retired police officer.

mljdeckard
November 20, 2012, 09:47 AM
Pawn shop operators go out of their way to make sure their merchandise isn't hot. The above-mentioned example is the only time or place I have ever heard of where a pawn shop isn't liable for stolen merchandise. If they buy it, and it turns out to be stolen, they eat it. Every time something is stolen, the first thing the police do is go look at the pawn shops. They know they have to go over and above to keep everything straight, or they won't stay in business very long.

I tell my students, if they need a first gun, go to a pawn shop and look for a used G-19 or J-frame.

Double Naught Spy
November 20, 2012, 10:12 AM
Pawn shop operators go out of their way to make sure their merchandise isn't hot.

I can't say that this is true at all. At the very best, about all that they do above and beyond dealing with the customer and following the law is to do a title search on items with titles and maybe check online listings that are for stolen firearms. Unless things have changed recently, most police departments don't have online public hot sheets that can be searched to verify that a given item isn't reportd lost or stolen. So a guy brings in a tv, box of tools, guitar, saddle, silver service set, or a gold diamond cluster ring, there isn't much the pawnbroker is going to be able to do to make sure the merchandise isn't stolen. They don't even ask the customers, LOL, not that the customer would be honest if s/he knew the item was stolen.

There just isn't a lot that pawnbrokers can do other than try to assess the status of most items based on markings such and the DL or name of somebody other than the customer. Beyond that, there is the completely unreliable attempts at assessing item status based on customer behavior, but oddly enough, nervous sorts of customers aren't typically nervous because they are pawning something stolen, but because of being a neophyte and never having been where they are and doing what they are doing, maybe in a part of town where they would prefer not to be, and dealing with people they make think could be unsavory.

Most would like to be able to do more, but have no resources or capabilities to do it.

Bubbles
November 20, 2012, 10:46 AM
Pawn shop operators go out of their way to make sure their merchandise isn't hot. The above-mentioned example is the only time or place I have ever heard of where a pawn shop isn't liable for stolen merchandise. If they buy it, and it turns out to be stolen, they eat it.
That varies by state. Some states require the pawnbroker to turn the item over to the rightful owner if it was stolen. Other states require the owner to purchase it out of pawn.

BSA1
November 20, 2012, 10:59 AM
The sad thing about discussion forums on the Internet is the large amount of misinformation posted on them.

The good thing about discussion forums on the Internet is the wide variety of occupations of members usuallys corrects the misinformation.

My daughter works in a pawn shop. They require photo I.D. on all times pawned and hold them for 30 days. The local police make regular visits to check for stolen items. My daughter says they regulary refuse to make loans on people they consider suspicous. She says they have developed a strong sense of someone who is undesirable such as drug users who are trying to support a drug habit.

Consider this policy against your LGS who places a price sticker on a used gun that comes into the shop and placed in the display case as soon as the customer walks out the door.

One items that is commonly pawned is tools. There is no usually no way to determine who the rightful owner is because they are not marked. Whose fault is that?

The complaint that pawn shops buy low is senseless whining. Everyone has the same access to Internet websites such as ebay, Craigslist and Gunbroker. Want to get the most money for your item advertise it yourself. If it is too much trouble to snap a few pictures, post the item, box it up and drive to the Post Office, UPS or Fed-ex hub then suck up and quit whining.

waterhouse
November 20, 2012, 12:18 PM
Reported stolen items will be returned to the owner, only if they pay us what we paid for the item, No more and no less. The original owner must get restitution from the criminal (usually they don't receive a dime) to recoup their money.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly does this system work? Is this common in the pawn shops in your area? I know pawn laws vary from state to state.

Once you find out that you are in possession of the stolen property, could the owner simply not file a police report and have to police come take possession of the stolen property? I realize you said it has only happened twice, but if it is common practice in your area have you heard stories of the rightful owner refusing to pay to get their property out of pawn?

evalero2
November 20, 2012, 12:40 PM
Unless you're planning on going out and shooting someone with it, what does it matter? Are you planning on having the police check into the firearms you own? I'd buy it, buy a new stock so it doesn't have someone elses name on it, and call it a day.

It's probably not stolen, and if it is then the person who it was stolen from hasn't reported it/didn't know its serial number because the pawn shop would have found out when they recieved it. So, yeah- it COULD be stolen- but if it is, no one knows and no one cares. (just like anything else you buy from a pawn shop)

Its not as if the cops are going to run a ballistics test on the BB's lying out in the skeet range that you fired and find some way to link you to a murder. Guns are legal, owning a gun you purchased(be it from a Gun Store, Private Seller, or Pawn Shop) without any knowledge of it being stolen is legal.

Perpetuating the image of gun ownership as being full of red tape or that there are all sorts of 'legal' problems with gun ownership is a huge problem right now.

Its the reason why everyone assumes that silencers, special ammunition types, fully automatic weapons, high-cap magazines, open carry etc are illegal.

You want a gun? Buy it. Want a silencer? Pay the fee to your local sheriffs office and buy it. As long as YOU aren't doing anything illegal, let the dealers assume the risk of stolen firearms.

sarge83
November 20, 2012, 01:08 PM
I have bought lots of pawn shop guns only had a minor issue once and the manager worked it out asap.

Frank Ettin
November 20, 2012, 01:10 PM
...As long as YOU aren't doing anything illegal, let the dealers assume the risk of stolen firearms. Understand that if a gun (or anything else) in your possession is identified as having been stolen, it will be taken from you. You will not be compensated for it. You can not own stolen property. It never belongs to you. It continues to belong to the rightful owner.

Ehtereon11B
November 21, 2012, 12:25 AM
Most pawn shops (if not all) in Alabama that deal in firearms are registered FFL dealers. As such buying/selling stolen firearms would be a very bad idea for them

JTHunter
November 21, 2012, 01:51 AM
In this area of Illinois, very few pawnshops deal with firearms - too much paperwork.
That being said, I just bought a 4" blued Ruger GP100 in .357 that turns out to be about 1 year old (mfd. 2011) for a total of over $100 less than a brand new one. I did NOT get either a box or a manual but I've already downloaded and printed parts of the PDF from Ruger's website.

Now I have to sight it in. :D Fun time!

smalls
November 21, 2012, 02:15 AM
Most pawn shops (if not all) in Alabama that deal in firearms are registered FFL dealers.

All are FFL's, throughout the entire US, it's federal law.

I was also under the impression that pawn brokers had to run the serial number against a stolen database. In fact, I think they are the only ones with access to thus database. Police can only use it if the gun is part of an investigation.

Obviously this doesn't help if the gun isn't reported stolen yet, like in analogkid's story.

Davek1977
November 21, 2012, 05:25 AM
Smalls, I do believe you are mistaken about there being a "stolen gun database" on accessible to pawnbrokers. In my research, I've seen companies that maintain such databses and charge for their use, but no central database controlled by any govt agency that archieves stolen gun info

smalls
November 21, 2012, 01:03 PM
I couldn't think of the acronym.

It's NCIC, or National Crime Information Center. It's accessible to LE, and Pawnbrokers. Difference is, LE need to have a reason to use it. Pawnbrokers can check any gun that comes through their doors.

Those companies you see are user submitted, and useless.

Arkansas Paul
November 21, 2012, 01:07 PM
How it's legal to sell a gun to any member of the public

It's not. Pawnshops have to do background checks just like a gun store.


I am looking at a shotgun at the local pawn shop that has a man's name scratched into the receiver. I almost walked out with it but I decided to go home and do a little research. So I googled the man's name. Turns out he's a convicted felon (bank robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, and more).

So what? It's not against the law to own a gun, or sell a gun that USED to belong to a felon.

would you buy it?

Probably not. I don't want my own name scratched into the reciever of any of my guns, much less someone else's.

Double Naught Spy
November 21, 2012, 01:43 PM
I couldn't think of the acronym.

It's NCIC, or National Crime Information Center. It's accessible to LE, and Pawnbrokers. Difference is, LE need to have a reason to use it. Pawnbrokers can check any gun that comes through their doors.

That would be an initialism, not an acronym. NCIC is not accessible to pawnbrokers other than NICS.
.

Davek1977
November 22, 2012, 03:02 AM
Exactly, they have access to do background checks for buyers, but not to run traces on serial numbers and whatnot in an attempt to ID stolen guns....NCIS checks out PEOPLE, not the guns they are buying

smalls
November 22, 2012, 03:11 AM
I never said anything about NCIS. I said NCIC. But, I've been trying to research more, and I cannot find where I saw it.

Citizen_soldier22
November 22, 2012, 03:17 AM
I work at a pawn shop. Not positive if it's state law or store policy, but we keep buys for 8 days before putting them on the floor and pawns will be in the back for a minimum of 61 days. Every SINGLE item that comes in the shop has a second signed and fingerprinted document with a description of the goods along with any serial numbers. These sheets are given to the local Sheriff's office daily. Everything we take in has a holding period long enough for law enforcement to run serial numbers.

Long story short, you should have no second thoughts about purchasing a firearm from a pawn shop. And I'm sure even if by some chance a gun did turn up hot, the shop would either refund you the money or give you in store credit and a good deal on something else.

PRM
November 22, 2012, 08:45 AM
I wouldn't buy a gun with someones name scratched in it, regardless of who's name it was.


LOL - now that would depend on whose name it was and if credible documentation could verify it. Guns with connections to historical persons do have extreme collector value (historical person and collector dependent).

One of the James family stories, is that Zerelda James (mother of Jesse) sold a number of guns later in her life that were alleged to have belonged to her son. Many, that were manufactured after his demise. She also sold stones off of his grave to tourists (replenished as need).

http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1545&cid=9

KenW.
November 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
Pawn and secondhand shops in my state have to participate in a statewide database of all their transactions. The DB is connected to the criminal justice information system, and runs the serial numbers automatically against NCIC.

I'm the property crimes detective for the County Sheriff's Office. I get calls from all over the state when one of my shops gets a"hit" and it's found by another person in the property crimes realm. Smart criminals in Utah do not use pawn shops.

Other States may not be quite as effective.

smalls
November 22, 2012, 04:21 PM
Ken, what state are you in? This may have been what I was trying to find. I knew I read it somewhere, and I must have mistaken it for a nation wide deal.

KenW.
November 22, 2012, 04:23 PM
Utah.

Double Naught Spy
November 22, 2012, 08:58 PM
I never said anything about NCIS. I said NCIC. But, I've been trying to research more, and I cannot find where I saw it.

Yeah, not NCIS. That would be a TV show about NCIS. You transposed the letters. Pawnshops generally don't have access to NCIC databases for stolen goods. They have access to NICS, however, for the background checks, as do gun shops.

So Ken's Utah people have access to a state system, undoubtedly run through law enforcement in the state. Would that be right, Ken?

KenW.
November 22, 2012, 09:18 PM
Utah pawnbrokers pay $250 every year to operate the db, law enforcement agencies pay $2 per sworn officer/deputy to access it. The State Division of Commerce actually runs it.

smalls
November 22, 2012, 11:06 PM
Yeah, not NCIS. That would be a TV show about NCIS. You transposed the letters. Pawnshops generally don't have access to NCIC databases for stolen goods

Too much turkey, today. :o

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