Full-auto conversion of Ruger Blackhawk revolver


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Dithsoer
August 24, 2012, 02:20 PM
Since my comment on this subject drew so much interest, I thought I'd start a new thread.
I have only seen mention of the Vietnam-era conversion of a Blackhawk revolver in .30 carbine in a couple of places, one in an old Guns and Ammo magazine, where it was a passing curiosity, and in two other books on weapons. I've never made one, never spoke to someone who has, but then again, I've never made a .50 caliber Browning or spoken to anyone who has, either.

This is currently the only picture I can find. I scanned it out of a book.

The conversion is quite simple really, and would require no more tools than would normally be found in a standard mechanic's or armoury's shop.


(So as to save space and people's fingers, I'll just get the further name calling out of the way now. "Your an idiot! It doesn't exist! The O.P. forget to take his medication! I hope you die in your sleep! I don't know how to do it, so it can't be done!!!" There. Hope everyone feels better)

Now, would anyone like to discuss the small catapults issued to front line troops in WWI, or the crossbow issued to Special Forces in Vietnam? Or the pistol that fired triangular bullets? Or how about the silenced shotgun---used in Vietnam---that actually had the silencing mechanism in the shell? Colt's first .44 Magnum revolver (not the Anaconda) or Winchester's excellent double-action revolver would also be an interesting topic of conversation. The world of firearms is filled with such curiosities as a full-auto singe-action revolver. Don't be so quick to scoff next time. After all, I'm not saying that I invented any of this stuff, or that I was even there. It's just odd little tidbits that I've picked up over the years learning about firearms and shooting.
I apologize if I've offended anyone's sensibilities. Just leave a mocking post and move on. . .

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Coop45
August 24, 2012, 02:53 PM
Interesting, I've never seen that idea before. There have been a lot of strange ideas come down the pike though. There's probably somebody out there trying to make that revolver into a belt fed. LOL!! Remember the caseless pistol?

oldbear
August 24, 2012, 03:13 PM
I have no idea if a full auto Ruger revolver ever existed, but my question would be why? There are and were so many other weapons out there that would do the same job and these would not need to be custom made.

Bikewer
August 24, 2012, 03:23 PM
I can't help thinking of the Webley "automatic revolver"...an amazingly complex weapon that didn't improve on either component....But the made 'EM anyway.
Well, some.

rcmodel
August 24, 2012, 03:30 PM
Or the pistol that fired triangular bullets?I'd like to discuss that.

There wasn't one.

I think you are referring to the Dardick semi-auto pistol "tround".

And it did use triangle shaped cartridges.

But the bullets that came out of the cartridges were quite round & bullet shaped.

rc

JohnM
August 24, 2012, 03:31 PM
The only thing I can find on Richard Paulson designs is supposed to be in this book.
A.W.F. Taylerson's book "The Revolver, 1865-1888

I can't help but think there is a connection between his designs and Fosbery.
Whether anyone ever made a workable model from the drawing you show is questionable.

Dithsoer
August 24, 2012, 03:45 PM
rcmodel

Actually I was referring to an ancient wheelock that had a triangular-shaped bore and fired a similar-shaped bullet. I don't recall exactly why this shape was experimented with, but obviously it didn't catch on. But good catch on the Dardick. If I had thought of it, I would have mentioned this unusual weapon and it's "trounds".
Ever hear of the brush-buster shotgun load that used cut square wire in place of round shot for hunting? They came with a clear plastic hull ala Brenneke and a horrible pattern.

Salmoneye
August 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
Ever hear of the brush-buster shotgun load that uses cut square wire in place of round shot for hunting? They came with a clear plastic hull ala Brenneke and a horrible pattern.

Thought they were called 'Spreader Loads'...

W.E.G.
August 24, 2012, 04:01 PM
Hey, if they can make the 1903 Springfield full auto, why not a single-action revolver.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/1903%20Springfield/orig.jpg

Owen
August 24, 2012, 04:04 PM
pretty similar to Brownings first experiments with semi-auto lever-actions.

kBob
August 24, 2012, 04:04 PM
There have been belt fed fully automatic revolvers for more than half a century and in common use........as 20 mm cannon on the F-100 and later US fighters, and I believe still in use in other folks air forces. They were replaced by gatling type guns mostly.

I would however like more details on this US murder with a fully auto .30 carbine BH revolver though......

-kBob

CraigC
August 24, 2012, 04:05 PM
Seems to me that the hammer would follow the piston and not hit the primer with enough force to ignite it.

Vern Humphrey
August 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
Actually, you can make any single action revolver full automatic. For a Colt SAA, just remove the firing pin bushing. The primers will blow out and the escaping gas will cock the hammer and rotate the cylinder. This can even happen in unmodified pre-WWII SAAs in .357.

JohnM
August 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
Yeah, those have been around for a long time and proven themselves.

Whole different ballgame converting a handheld single action revolver to function in full automatic mode by adding some parts from a gas operated rifle to it.

Wil Terry
August 24, 2012, 04:11 PM
SHUCKS !! To those who read all sorts of interesting I-do-not-freakin'-believe-it stuff is available.
It is pretty darned easy to turn a COLT SAA into a full auto pistol that'll rip off six in the blink of an eye.
And so it goes....

kBob
August 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
W.E.G.

Pedersen device is semi auto or was as adopted and demonstrated by the US army in 1918.

I beleive the Austrailians ( or NZs) produced a modified Enfield No III series rifle that had been converted to full auto for home guard use called the Charlton in WWII.

There were a number of designs and working models for making bolt actions go bang rapidly without bolt manipulation between WWI and WWII.

Supposedly there were a few Winchester '92 designs made into SMGs for use by Castro's folks in Cuba when the revolution was yet young, they used magazines based on the design of the Luger snail drums of WWII. Talk about convoluted! Surely it would have been easier to make Stens....but not if what you have to start with is Winnie '92s.

I have never said one could not make a usless six shot 'chine gun from a single action revolver, I mearly question why anyone would go to the trouble of doing so.

-kBob

unspellable
August 24, 2012, 06:01 PM
Moses Browning converted a Winchester 94 to semi-auto in the space of eight hours. I suspect a bet may have been involved.

The Dardick, in its hand held pistol version was magazine fed. It was essentially developed as proof of concept for light artillery designs that were a belt fed revolver.

RaceM
August 24, 2012, 06:09 PM
Interesting. I'm gonna add that to my store of useless(?) gun info. Might come in handy for something one day.

skidder
August 24, 2012, 06:20 PM
It's possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk

BCRider
August 25, 2012, 02:54 PM
At first I was like WTH? But the drawing makes it look like it would not be all that hard.

A short sharp blow from the piston would "throw" the hammer back and the piston would be returned by a recoil spring leaving the hammer a free travel to strike the next round.

But WOW! Would this ever be hard on the stop bolt, frame, cylinder ratchet teeth and hand! ! ! ! I would expect that the gun would shoot itself loose in almost no time at all. Or, more likely, that the hand would simply bend, shatter or otherwise lay down and play dead or the indexing teeth on the rear of the cylinder would be chiseled away by the hand.

Vern Humphrey
August 25, 2012, 02:57 PM
But WOW! Would this ever be hard on the stop bolt, frame, cylinder ratchet teeth and hand! ! ! ! I would expect that the gun would shoot itself loose in almost no time at all. Or, more likely, that the hand would simply bend, shatter or otherwise lay down and play dead or the indexing teeth on the rear of the cylinder would be chiseled away by the hand.
Very likely.

As an elderly lady from Mis'sippi I used to know would say, "Oh, isn't that useless!"

Jaymo
August 25, 2012, 04:05 PM
Send it to Bob Munden for one of his quickdraw tunes, before you make it a rock n roll revolver.
I'd like to see someone do this with a Freedom Arms Casull.
Then, I'd like to see video of someone shooting it.
The last round fired would probably be aimed directly behind the shooter.
Unless you made a muzzle brake like on a Barrett .50.

Vern Humphrey
August 25, 2012, 04:23 PM
Send it to Bob Munden for one of his quickdraw tunes, before you make it a rock n roll revolver.
I'd like to see someone do this with a Freedom Arms Casull.
Then, I'd like to see video of someone shooting it.
The last round fired would probably be aimed directly behind the shooter.
Unless you made a muzzle brake like on a Barrett .50.
Which is why you would not want to be there to see it. Although it might be fun to get there before the paramedics arrived.:D

Jaymo
August 25, 2012, 04:51 PM
I take it back, the third shot would probably be directly aft of the shooter.
That thing has a violent recoil.

I would definitely not want to be within range of that round when it was touched off. Remote controlled camera would be good enough for me.
It would be cool if you mounted it to a 1919 or M2 bipod.

Vern Humphrey
August 25, 2012, 06:54 PM
Wise man. There are some things that should only be enjoyed from a distance.

When I was doing training for the Singapore Army, we ran a combat patrol to destroy a radar installation (and the Army provided an obsolete radar set for a target.)

The idea was to develop two Computer-Aided Instruction programs -- one for planning the raid, one for executing it. We videoed the patrol, then came back and videoed the various options at each decision point.

In the end, we were to show how to properly prepare a radar set for demolotion -- I was supposed to do this, the troops were only to go through the motions.

I had built a U-shaped sandbag bunker for a remote camera, another camera in a more substantial sandbag bunker in a ravine close to the radar station and a third camera beside a concrete blast-proof bunker with armored windows and an open back.

I'm up on the radar set putting charges in place when I hear my counterpart, Major Li say, "Meester Humphrey, do you plan to be in that ravine?"

"Why, yes I do, Major."

"I don't think is too safe. Because of the petrol."

"Because of the WHAT????"

I looked down, and all the engineers in the Singapore Army were coming out of the jungle and crossing the clearing, each one carrying a 5-gallon gas can. Major Li was making up 2-lb charges of C4, dropping one in each gas can, and wiring them into my firing circuit.

"On second thought, I think I'll join you in the big bunker."

So we all congregated in the concrete bunker and I twisted the handle of the blasting machine. There was an incredible explosion. Everyone turned to go out of the bunker, and I had to tackle a couple to stop them -- crap was falling like rain. Pieces of debris the size of your leg landed behind the bunker.

We went out to film the destroyed radar set -- which was the point of the exercise -- and it was freekin' gone!

A couple of days later, I'm editing the video. Frame by frame, nothing. Then the screen is filled with flame and you can acutally see a bit of the radar set, displaced upward by about six feet in that one frame.

Major Li, looking over my shoulder said, "What do you think happened to the radar set, Meester Humphrey?"

I looked at him, "Major Li, by my calculations it should be passing over Dallas, Texas about now.

lloveless
August 25, 2012, 11:20 PM
Let me see. if you make a Blackhawk into a full auto, then it is no longer SA?
ll

Vern Humphrey
August 26, 2012, 09:44 AM
You still have to cock it for the first shot.

barnbwt
August 26, 2012, 11:10 AM
All you gotta do is remove the firing pin bushing, huh? How is that not "readily convertable" in the BATFE's eyes?
TCB

Rickenbacker
August 26, 2012, 11:30 AM
It's possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk
That's just accidental bumpfire, she's limpwristing it and it bounces back at her finger, firing it again.

Still, one of those semiauto revolvers should be a candidate for full auto...

Gordon
August 26, 2012, 11:37 AM
Oh yeah , saw alot of dem dere Blackhawks converted in the various firebases I visited over the course of 3 years in de Nam! :rolleyes:

TonyT
August 26, 2012, 01:44 PM
Personaly I doubt that that Ruger conversion would work. The hammer would return the rod & pistoln to original posiotion and then ignite the primer?? Doesn't appear to have enough energy to do that.

Vern Humphrey
August 26, 2012, 03:46 PM
Personaly I doubt that that Ruger conversion would work. The hammer would return the rod & pistoln to original posiotion and then ignite the primer?? Doesn't appear to have enough energy to do that.
Pre-WWII Colt SAAs in .357 because of the large blackpowder firing pin and generous clearance in the firing pin bushing had a lot of problems locking up, with the primer metal flowing back into the firing pin hole. Occasionally, a pierced primer would blow the hammer to full cock (which would of course revolve the cylinder as well) and with the shooter's finger on the trigger, the hammer would fall, firing a second shot.

Removing the firing pin bushing leaves no support at all for the primer and will almost guarantee the hammer will be blown back.

Rob0321
August 26, 2012, 09:33 PM
I'm almost certain there was a guy on "Thefiringline.com" that turned one of his Blackhawks into a gas operated semi. I'll try to dig it up.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=446857&highlight=semi+revolver

Correction, it was a Vaquero.

Swing
August 26, 2012, 09:46 PM
Or the pistol that fired triangular bullets?

Ah-ha-ha! (http://alwaysprepared.info/index.php/topic,464.0.html)

Ah, more seriously, never saw this wackadoo Ruger, but it be darn interesting. Thanx.:D

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