Mosin Nagant silencer


PDA






1-1 Banger
August 28, 2012, 12:55 PM
Anybody have any experience with suppressing a 91/30? Been looking into doing it after I get back stateside but can't really find any 1st hand knowledge about it. I'm not sure if I want to just buy one or just do the Form 1(?) and try my hand at making one, so knowledge of any kind would be much appreciated.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mosin Nagant silencer" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
TurtlePhish
August 28, 2012, 12:57 PM
I've seen it on YouTube. Suppressed as well as any other .30cal rifle shooting supersonics. The long barrel helps with gasses. Remember that all milsurp ammo is corrosive, though. If you intend on using it then you'll want the can to be user-serviceable.

berettaprofessor
August 28, 2012, 01:59 PM
a) What would be the fun of a Mosin if you suppressed the thunder?

b) Wouldn't the muzzle flash of a Mosin just burn up the suppressor?;)

TurtlePhish
August 28, 2012, 04:38 PM
Yeah, I can't imagine an M44 suppressing well. :D

BLAKEinTX
August 28, 2012, 09:28 PM
54R and 06 are pretty much identical in power and any 30cal can rated for 308 and 06 will handle this cartridge but the corrosive surplus ammo will eat the can away so you would be limited to using modern ammo like wolf or bear etc if you dont want to clean out your can everytime you shoot it

The YHM 762 cans and the Liberty Freedom and Victory are good to go

No supersonic cartridge suppresses well because of the sonic boom created by the bullet and the m44 should be fine suppressed

barnbwt
August 28, 2012, 10:25 PM
Remember that all milsurp ammo is corrosive, though. If you intend on using it then you'll want the can to be user-serviceable.

Wouldn't the muzzle flash of a Mosin just burn up the suppressor?

I'd recommend a quality can made of Platinum-Iridium for this application ;). Cool idea, though; probably more handy than a Mosin with the spike affixed, too. Just learn to kick the bolt open very quietly (sans cursing) so you don't give away your position :D

TCB

1-1 Banger
August 29, 2012, 08:24 AM
No supersonic cartridge suppresses well because of the sonic boom created by the bullet and the m44 should be fine suppressed
The plan was to load up some subsonics or at the least some reduced velocity rounds, thanks for the recommendations for a few different cans, this will be my first project involving a suppressor.

1-1 Banger
August 29, 2012, 09:17 AM
Would it be more beneficial to leave the barrel at or close to the original length, or to cut it down to say 16 1/2 inches?

Jim Watson
August 29, 2012, 09:35 AM
I'd leave it original. If you don't like it, you can always saw it off and rethread it later. If you cut it off first, it would be hard to stretch it back.

Pre-WW I, it was planned to issue a few Springfields with Maxim Silencers to each outfit. Reduced recoil and muffled muzzle blast would help the sharpshooter.

JustinJ
August 29, 2012, 10:00 AM
I wouldn't think corrosive ammo would be a big deal. Just get a stainless steel can, rinse water through it real well after shooting and then heat it up any number of ways to cause evaporation. I'd probably use DI water but isn't really necessary. I would imagine the former Soviet Bloc countries have been shooting corrosive ammo through suppressed weapons for a while now.

Ranb
August 29, 2012, 12:09 PM
What would be the fun of a Mosin if you suppressed the thunder?
There is plenty of boom left over when shooting any high powered rifle with a silencer. Do you shoot your Mosin without hearing protection? Shooting my 308 with 26 dB ear muffs or a 30 dB silencer is not much different, still kind of noisy to me. The main differences are that the silencer adds weight and the noise is reduced for everyone.

No supersonic cartridge suppresses well because of the sonic boom created by the bullet and the m44 should be fine suppressed
All high powered rifle cartridges can be effectively suppressed by an appropriate silencer. Silencers only suppress muzzle blast noise and do nothing for action, bullet flight and impact noise. Saying that supersonic cartridges do not suppress well is like saying a car muffler does not work well because you still have wind, tire and transmission noise.

Ranb

brnmuenchow
August 29, 2012, 12:47 PM
a) What would be the fun of a Mosin if you suppressed the thunder?

b) Wouldn't the muzzle flash of a Mosin just burn up the suppressor?

Why on earth would anyone ever wish to suppress such a thing! ;)

SDC
August 29, 2012, 12:55 PM
Here's a picture of what the issued Mosin/Nagant M1891/30 with a PBS ("priborum dlya besschumnoy strelbu"/"device for silent shooting") looked like.

1-1 Banger
August 29, 2012, 04:22 PM
Here's a picture of what the issued Mosin/Nagant M1891/30 with a PBS ("priborum dlya besschumnoy strelbu"/"device for silent shooting") looked like.
I may have read about it somewhere. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't it lock around the front sight the same way as the bayonet does?

TurtlePhish
August 29, 2012, 05:06 PM
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't it lock around the front sight the same way as the bayonet does?

From the picture, it looks like it does. With how tight the bayonets can be, I wouldn't worry about it coming off... :p

SDC
August 29, 2012, 08:46 PM
Yep, they were the "twist to lock" type; here's a picture of some modern repros.

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/003144/thm/3144075.jpg

TurtlePhish
August 29, 2012, 08:48 PM
Are those actual suppressors or just mockups? One of those would be awesome to have.

SDC
August 29, 2012, 08:51 PM
The pictured ones are dummies ("maket"), but some of my books show the internals on these, and there's no reason a live one couldn't be built for US sales. In Russian use, they were also issued with S40 (sometimes denoted as US40) reduced-velocity ammunition, having an LPS jacketed bullet painted all green, and a velocity of around 330 metres/second (just over 1000 fps).

TurtlePhish
August 29, 2012, 08:56 PM
I'm going to seriously consider putting one of those on a Form 1...

What books do you have on them, if you don't mind me asking?

Ranb
August 29, 2012, 09:00 PM
That looks like something I would want on my Mosin Nagant. I am not interested in classic internals, but I would love to make one that looks like the classic version on an ATF form 1.

Got any good external measurements for us? Thanks.

Ranb

SDC
August 29, 2012, 09:45 PM
No external measurements, sorry, but Semyon Fedoseyev has written several books on Russian military stuff, and his "Oruzhie Spetznaz"/"Special-purpose Weapons" shows a drawing cut-away of this suppressor, with two thick rubber wipes, a central expansion chamber, and an initial diversion chamber that forces the gas into a bell-shaped chamber before it's bled off.

crazy-mp
August 29, 2012, 11:20 PM
I wonder how effective this design is, well not the internal design I have a pretty good idea what that sounds like, but the "twist on" mounting system, I would bet that there is a significant amount of noise from here. Anybody who owns more than 1 91/30 will tell you one bayonet will drop right onto one gun and on another you can get it on but it takes 3 good men and a mule to remove it.

1-1 Banger
August 30, 2012, 06:33 AM
That PBS is pretty sick. I wonder what difference it would make if you were to make one with baffles instead of wipes? I'm a sucker for historical weapons and their accessories, so now I'm pretty curious about how effectively the Mosin/PBS combo was employed in WWII

crazy-mp
August 30, 2012, 07:05 AM
http://www.bug.hr/oleg/mosin.jpg

On another forum there is this picture and the caption says something along the lines of Russian special forces weapons.

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/partizan/lahglus2.jpg

and the German version

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/partizan/arceisfe.gif

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/partizan/arceisf2.gif

SDC
August 30, 2012, 10:26 AM
Interesting, mp; the middle drawing shows the Mosin suppressor designated as the "S-40" pattern, with the abbreviation "Gl" ("glu****elya"/"silencer").

Note: interesting; I hadn't realized there's a profanity filter, but the missing letters in the Russian word for silencer are a common word for faeces.

Edit to add: These non-functional suppressors are available from bramit.ru, with the S-40 currently listed at 3000 rubles (92 US dollars); http://www.bramit.ru/-/11-glu****el-dlja-vintovki-mosina-.html

1-1 Banger
September 2, 2012, 06:51 AM
Is the S-40 an integral? That's be pretty cool, something I'd look into if I had more than one Mosin. I'd say you'd have to do quite a bit of porting on a Mosin for an integral suppressor to work well, or am I thinking wrong?

SDC
September 2, 2012, 07:19 AM
No, the S-40 is the "twist to lock" style; the version in the glass display case, on the rifle with the PSO-1 SVD scope, appears to be a field-manufactured suppressor by the Italian Red Brigade.

1-1 Banger
September 2, 2012, 07:24 AM
Ahhh, that makes sense then. I thought that it was an early version of the silencer on the VSS or As-Val

SDC
September 15, 2012, 08:39 AM
Just ran across some external measurements on the S-40, if you're still interested, RanB; these drawings were posted on a Russian version of THR.

Ranb
September 15, 2012, 09:28 AM
If I am reading the numbers right, the main part of the can is 5.75" long and 1.27" wide. That is small. I might scale it up to 1.625" by 7.5. I will make it thread on and with cone baffles inside. It will look nearly authentic from a distance. :)

Ranb

BLAKEinTX
September 15, 2012, 04:18 PM
I would leave the bbl at the original length because the shorter the bbl the louder suppressed it will be

Also with corrosive ammo i would soak it in a bath of windex to kill the corrosive salts

shaggy430
September 15, 2012, 07:44 PM
I don't think I could justify paying $200 to the gov't to suppress a $100 gun. No disrespect intended.

Shadow 7D
September 15, 2012, 08:29 PM
the question is, would pay the money to have a repro of a russian SF weapon (hell put it on one of the MOLOT repro snipers....

why do people suppress a 10/22?
cool, really really want to learn how to build cans.

Ranb
September 15, 2012, 08:32 PM
I do not not think of it as a $100 gun. Suppressed rifles are usually much more comfortable to shoot. Seeing as how I have spent more than $200 on ammo for my Nagant, $260 (tax and material) is money well spent on a silencer.

Ranb

Flyincedar
September 15, 2012, 08:55 PM
It seems to me that you could reproduce that can, if you wanted something original looking, with a better baffle design and make it more effective. I definitely agree on scaling it up... Its already a boat paddle, you arent gonna hurt it by making it a little longer with a proper sized can.

crazy-mp
September 15, 2012, 10:58 PM
I don't think I could justify paying $200 to the gov't to suppress a $100 gun. No disrespect intended.

I would do it except for all the cases of corrosive ammo I have

1-1 Banger
September 16, 2012, 04:56 AM
Wow, those measurements and pictures were a huge help SDC, thank you. I think that's what I may do, I like the look of the historical suppressor, but I agree, widening and lengthening it won't hurt. I'll make a better baffles and have it thread on and with some decent sub sonics, I think it'll be perfect.

lefteyedom
October 10, 2012, 10:30 PM
Go all the way, SBR the Mosin and the suppress it. Short, powerful, suppress and simple what more could you want from a Zombie gun>?<

Flyincedar
October 11, 2012, 01:04 AM
While I love the way you think, in my opinion, you're talking serious punishment to the can at that point. If you have cheap can, or one you home built, yeah maybe it wouldn't be to costly to replace it, but you're still talking 200 bones every time

Saakee
October 11, 2012, 09:28 PM
give the guys at libertycans.net a jingle about their Mystic multi-cal can, it might be spot on about what you need for suppressing the mosin.

Cosmoline
October 11, 2012, 09:30 PM
Don't forget there are other ways to reduce the sound. For one thing you can lengthen the barrel, for another you can reduce the load and go subsonic.

In this case it's easy to do both. Just get an uncut M91 and fire subsonic handloads from it. I did that with my Finn M91 some years back for a small game hunting load. Didn't even need ear protection, there was just a "PAAF"

If you enjoyed reading about "Mosin Nagant silencer" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!