AR15 recommendation


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Liquid Metal
August 28, 2012, 10:27 PM
I have shot an AR-15 several times and ready to buy one. When I talked to several gun sellers, one in particular told me that AR-15 are all very similar for the exception for impingement vs piston firing. Otherwise, it is more or less for the name brand. Is this true? Which one would you recommend for a piston? I have contacted LMT and they have responded very informatively.

I know most people will recommend a 5.56 nato but what about a 7.62x39 (AK round) or 7.62x51 nato?

What will I be using it for?
-Target practicing
-Gun Collecting
-Home Defense (although my shotgun probably would come first)
-etc...

Thanks

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Sky
August 28, 2012, 10:34 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=611354

A few of us have the AR in 7.62x39

Even though I have a few ARs in different calibers I can not help with a fair eval of a piston popper....But someone will be by....

Captains1911
August 28, 2012, 10:44 PM
7.62x39 ARs have a reputation of not feeding as reliability.

Piston....meh....it just adds a bunch of more expensive, proprietary moving parts to replace a single lighter-weight reliable part, while at the same time adding front-end weight, changing the recoil characteristics, and creating bolt carrier tilt potential. Sure it may be a little cleaner, but direct impingement ARs run reliably when dirty, so what's the point?

Not all ARs brands are equal, don't buy into that.

Liquid Metal
August 28, 2012, 11:00 PM
"7.62x39 ARs have a reputation of not feeding as reliability." AK rounds are so cheap to buy. :)

That is good info on the piston as well. So both are recommending to go with impingement?

Warp
August 28, 2012, 11:03 PM
I have shot an AR-15 several times and ready to buy one. When I talked to several gun sellers, one in particular told me that AR-15 are all very similar for the exception for impingement vs piston firing. Otherwise, it is more or less for the name brand. Is this true? Which one would you recommend for a piston? I have contacted LMT and they have responded very informatively.

I know most people will recommend a 5.56 nato but what about a 7.62x39 (AK round) or 7.62x51 nato?

What will I be using it for?
-Target practicing
-Gun Collecting
-Home Defense (although my shotgun probably would come first)
-etc...

Thanks

If you intend to use it for defensive purposes my personal recommendation is to look into a Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM (bravo company manufacturing, or Noveske). Basically $1,000-$1,400, depending on what you get, for a basic rifle.

LMT makes pretty good rifles.

I would get DI. The AR was designed as and intended to be DI, and it works just fine. Buy a quality rifle, lube the BCG (bolt carrier group) properly, use GOOD magazines, use ammo that isn't crap, and it should do whatever you need it to do.

Cesiumsponge
August 28, 2012, 11:03 PM
It isn't just the name brand. There are differences, but most people don't care to know, don't know, or it isn't a critical aspect in their decision-making. Chances are the gun store will poo-poo anything they don't carry and tell you how great their stocked brands are.

You're still wide open. Need to narrow it down with budget and what kind of hardware you're going to run on it. A home defense rifle tends to be small, simple, and light. Target shooting is a wide category, which can mean close-up target shooting or long distance target shooting, where the AR's run 20" bull barrels and magnified optics which aren't suitable for home defense.

helotaxi
August 28, 2012, 11:23 PM
I wouldn't go with anything other than 5.56 for my first/only AR-15.

7.62x39 has issues in the AR platform from the increased case taper causing feeding problems in the straight mag-well to the opened up bolt having durability issues.

.308/7.62x51 isn't an AR-15 but rather an AR-10. Larger and heavier all around. There are also 2 different designs in that size rifle that do not have interchangeable parts.

Piston systems aren't needed and are all proprietary. They do add weight, but I wouldn't say that they alter the balance appreciably and don't alter the recoil impulse at all (speaking from experience shooting the exact same rifle both as DI and piston) nor do they have a practical effect on accuracy. The current designs don't have problems with carrier tilt either. There's nothing "wrong" with either piston or DI. I own and shoot both and enjoy shooting both. I don't have reliability issues with either.

Liquid Metal
August 28, 2012, 11:32 PM
very good information and deductive reasoning so far. Thanks!!!

What else beside DI and Piston??? Understood caliber...

Cesiumsponge
August 28, 2012, 11:38 PM
The problem with piston designs is that everyone has their own little twist on it, while the AR15 DI system is essentially being executed identically by every manufacturer since the inception of the design almost half a century ago. You're basically depending on a small pool of piston AR15 rifles made by one particular brand name being run hard enough by a small minority of the buyers for problems to rear their ugly heads and shake out.

The vast majority of rifle buyers don't purchase them and run a thousand rounds through them a month or through one sitting. Most people buy a rifle and run a few boxes through their rifle every time they hit the range, which might be once a month or once a year depending on their collection. That's not to say there aren't perfectly reliable and awesome piston systems...you're just dealing with a tiny pool of rifles (relatively speaking, compared to the entire AR market) because every company has their own proprietary piston design.

MistWolf
August 28, 2012, 11:57 PM
The AR isn't a direct impingement system and has a piston which is a part of the bolt
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0013.jpg
What the so-called "piston" uppers do is move the piston from the BCG to the gas block and add an op-rod. They are heavier, have more parts, add offset recoil forces and are costlier. Op-rod uppers do not run cooler. Same amount of heat is generated. Inline piston (what folks erroneously call a "DI" system) carriers and bolts don't get very warm. Both rifles get hot at the gas block. Guess what? The op-rod upper has it's piston right where the rifle gets hot and that's also where it the carbon build up goes.

After several hundred rounds in a single afternoon, the FSB (gas block) got hot enough to turn water into steam. The carrier & bolt barely got warm
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0253.jpg
If curious as to what an actual direct impingement system looks like, look up the Ljungman rifle

Liquid Metal
August 29, 2012, 12:06 AM
MistWolf, the gun owner showed me that part today in the green picture.

As for the rest of your previous post, can you translate? :)

rcmodel
August 29, 2012, 12:11 AM
The AR isn't a direct impingement system Well, that is the correct name for it anyway, since it was first used successfully on the French MAS 44, MAS 49, and yes, the Ljungman series of military rifles.

Those, and the AR-15, M16, and M4 are all Direct Impingement designs.

You might want to read up on it a little more.

rc

TurtlePhish
August 29, 2012, 12:23 AM
If you're okay with the .223/5.56mm cartridge, I say get a Colt 6920 and be done with it.

Liquid Metal
August 29, 2012, 12:36 AM
What are your thoughts on Delton?

http://www.del-ton.com/carbine_rifles_s/2.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=2&show=100&page=1

TurtlePhish
August 29, 2012, 12:44 AM
Nothing wrong with Del-Ton, they make good stuff. I've seen long waiting periods on their stuff, though. Last year I remember most of their uppers had a 4-8 week wait.

Liquid Metal
August 29, 2012, 01:13 AM
Thanks TurtlePhish

The gun seller that I spoke today laid a Delton and a Ruger right next to each other. Handles, stock and rail are different. He told me that other than that, they are very similar to each other. He even took apart and showed the part (not the piston) in the image above.

He shared that if you buy a Colt, you are buying like a Mercedes and if you buy a Delton, you are buying like a Toyota. It is just name brand but both will get the job done. If that is true, then I am going to research into Delton (Direct Impingement). Will avoid 7.62x39 (AK round) rounds as recommended and lean toward 5.56 nato. :)

Thanks everyone!

RainDodger
August 29, 2012, 01:34 AM
I was assimilated and contracted the black rifle disease a couple of years ago. I figure the piston thing is nice if you're going to be firing full auto for a while, but I think it's added weight and complexity, for a rifle that is simple, reliable, and functions well as designed. DI is just fine for me and I have multiple. To be fair, I have no piston rifles - other than a Browning BAR in .243, which is kind of different... but a piston rifle just the same.

As for brand.... it is my recommendation that you simply stick to one of the better-known brands recommended here. Colt certainly, Noveske, BCM, etc. Not many have recommended S&W, but I have to tell you - I have one and its fit and finish is better than the Colt. I would not hesitate to buy another. In fact, the S&W Sport is a fantastic buy - if you can find one. No dust cover, no forward assist, but hey, do you need those? Maybe not. Just a thought. It's half the price of many others and it sure puts them down-range in an accurate manner with its 5R rifling and melonite hardness treatment. Just sayin'....

Buy an AR, buy a bunch of ammo and have some fun.

Quentin
August 29, 2012, 01:37 AM
Liquid Metal, if you're looking at a Del-Ton then also look at PSA, I think you get a better rifle for the money.

MistWolf gave you good information above. While we can argue what the true definition of direct impingment is (and he may expand on his post as you requested) I think the main point for you to take from his advice is the the beauty, simplicity, economy and light weight of the in-line bolt/piston vs. the offset push rod design like the Ruger you saw.

Some people like to keep the chamber and bolt area cleaner with a "piston" design but it really doesn't affect reliability. If your AR isn't suppressed or under 14.5" then a "DI" version is a smart buy.

Liquid Metal
August 29, 2012, 01:46 AM
Thanks Rain.

Can you provide the website to PSA, Quentin?

The only advantage that I have heard so far that made me think twice for a piston is that the gun seller told me "DI" is not reliable after submerged in water. I don't plan to go swimming with it but that just stood out for a second when he shared the information with me.

Warp
August 29, 2012, 02:16 AM
I would not buy a del-ton.

If I was going to take a step down from the "Top Tier" companies I'd probably look at a PSA or a S&W M&P15. Or perhaps a Stag. But not a del-ton, not a bushmaster, not a DPMS. But that's just me.

Liquid Metal
August 29, 2012, 02:18 AM
Can you be more specific Warp? Is it the quality or is it the accuracy?

Warp
August 29, 2012, 02:26 AM
Can you be more specific Warp? Is it the quality or is it the accuracy?

It's the lack of a reputation for reliability and durability, as far as I am aware.

I don't recall seeing anything particularly against them, though. I'd have to take a closer look if one in the right middle ground pricerange presented itself and that's what I was shopping for

Any experience with one of these?

http://www.del-ton.com/DTI_Extreme_Duty_316_p/extreme316.htm

The above looks good. PERSONALLY, though, if that's how much they go for on the street, I'd buy a Colt/DD/BCM...but they might go for less than that on the street?

MistWolf
August 29, 2012, 07:29 AM
Well, that is the correct name for it anyway, since it was first used successfully on the French MAS 44, MAS 49, and yes, the Ljungman series of military rifles.

Those, and the AR-15, M16, and M4 are all Direct Impingement designs.

You might want to read up on it a little more.

rc

I did my research, including digging up the original Stoner patent. Stoner himself states his gas system is not a direct impingement system. The AR system is different than the Ljungman system in that it uses a piston in the carrier rather than a simple cup that takes gas directly from the gas tube

JFtheGR8
August 29, 2012, 08:25 AM
I like my Del Ton but I don't have the round count through it to give an honest review plus it's my first and only AR. Not being a stranger to firearms, the fit and finish are good. I did have to wait and I'm sure they are probably backed up again with elections coming up. You mentioned LMT: If they are within your budget why would you look at middle to lower tier anyway? My next AR will be a Daniel Defense.


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Liquid Metal
August 29, 2012, 08:38 AM
You mentioned LMT: If they are within your budget why would you look at middle to lower tier anyway? My next AR will be a Daniel Defense.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android
Why would I look at middle to lower tier? Well, if it is just for name brand like Mercedes vs Toyota, I am fine living with a Toyota. :)

meanmrmustard
August 29, 2012, 08:41 AM
Personally, I'd buy what you can afford. If you can get an expensive AR, go for it. If you have to go "mid" tier, that's fine too. Any rifle is better than none.

Me, for what some of them cost, Id get either one BCM, or two M&Ps!:)

JFtheGR8
August 29, 2012, 08:56 AM
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFtheGR8

You mentioned LMT: If they are within your budget why would you look at middle to lower tier anyway? My next AR will be a Daniel Defense.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

Why would I look at middle to lower tier? Well, if it is just for name brand like Mercedes vs Toyota, I am fine living with a Toyota.

Agreed, I went with Del Ton because they seemed to be the best in my budget range. Many will disagree and say I could have gotten a PSA, S&W, etc... But whatever. If you are going to trust your life with it then don't bargain shop. Get a top of the line weapon that's battle proven. Just shooting targets like me then that's not necessary. My shotgun is my go to for home defense just like you said yours is for you.


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Cesiumsponge
August 29, 2012, 11:27 AM
The salesman said Toyota and Mercedes. There are also Trabants and Fiats out there.

Warp
October 21, 2012, 11:57 PM
Can you be more specific Warp? Is it the quality or is it the accuracy?

I now have two indirect experiences with DPMS AR15s. Two. Both failed.

At my indoor range a guy was shooting Remington .223 FMJ in his DPMS. It jammed up so bad they had to beat the ever loving crap out of the gun on the bench to get the stuck case out.

Then today the guy shooting next to me at an Appleseed had a DPMS AR15. We were both shooting Federal XM855 at the time, same year's headstamp and all...and he 'warned me' about duds that failed to failure from time to time. He had just had 2 out of 5 fail to fire. He tried them again and 1 fired, 1 did not.

I took the 1 that did not, put it in my Colt, and it worked perfectly, just like every other round I have put through it (1,130 so far, only, but getting somewhere)

Grizzlyone
October 22, 2012, 12:56 AM
Another brand not mentioned is Fulton Arms. I have a Fulton lower, 18" HBAR, phantom tube.... Love the Rifle. Anyhow, just another option.

ryno31
October 22, 2012, 01:37 AM
I have to agree with everyone else's suggestions as well as the suggestion of going with a colt, noveske, bcm...etc as in the long run they have proven to be very reliable. I understand that the extra $100-200 can be a deal breaker though and in that case you really can't go wrong with a rifle along the lines of a psa, stag, or s&w unless your gonna be behind enemy lines and even in that case they would probably do the job. My first AR was a stag model 3 and it was absolutely flawless through the 1,000 rds I put through through it, I eventually upgraded to noveske lower and bcm upper more out of pride and because I had the money to afford one at the time, point being that for my needs there wasn't a thing wrong with stag. I just really wanted the extra features for a shtf scenario not because I necessarily needed them. You can also get top tier rifle significantly cheaper if you order the lower and upper seperately...don't know if anyone mentioned that in the other post. It also never hurts to send out a thread on this forum to see if anyone knows of any good deals at the moment, I did that and a fellow member sent me a link to a colt 6920 for $875 shipped.The most important thing is to have fun, happy hunting!

MachIVshooter
October 22, 2012, 02:30 AM
Oh, boy, can oh worms :p

My $0.02:

For a plinker/range toy, just about any of them will work fine. However, some are better than others at a given price point.

The lowest cost way to get into the AR game with a complete rifle is the S&W M&P sport. They're well made, just very basic and missing the dust cover and forward assist to cut costs. AFAIK, the sport is still available for ~$650 these days.

In the $750-$900 range, you have almost too many options to list. And again, some are better than others at the same price point. In this price range, you can get a quality, no frills AR from a reputable manufacturer. Del-Ton, DSA, Palmetto, RRA to name a few. Even Armalite has a basic offering in here. The kind of thing that may be missing in this arena is stuff like chrome lined barrels, various types of friction and corrosion resistant coatings, etc.

$900-$1,200 opens the door to some very good ARs. This is the mid-tier range today (it was top teir a few years back, before the high end stuff emerged) Armalite, Colt, BCM, CMMG, Stag, S&W and a host of others offer basic and some enhanced models to meet this budget.

$1,200-$1,800 is getting you into some of the more basic guns from higher end manufacturers like LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense. Very, very good rifles.

North of $1,800, you're really starting to pay more for factory customization. IMO, not really much quality to be gained, just more goodies.

Now, if you build your own, you can get a bit more rifle for your money in most cases, but you won't have any warranty. For instance, you can build a Del-Ton or DSA rifle identical to what you'd buy assembled for about $150-$200 less. On the other hand, trying to assemble a Colt or Armalite will actually cost you more than just buying the rifle.

I would trust my life to many rifles in the sub-$1k mark, and in fact, do: My go-to is an Armalite M15A2C, which currently retail for about $950. But there are plenty that I wouldn't count on, like Olympic Arms or DPMS.

You just need to figure out what your requirements and budget are, then we can narrow it down a bit more.

Warp
October 22, 2012, 02:08 PM
Oh, boy, can oh worms :p

My $0.02:

For a plinker/range toy, just about any of them will work fine. However, some are better than others at a given price point.

The lowest cost way to get into the AR game with a complete rifle is the S&W M&P sport. They're well made, just very basic and missing the dust cover and forward assist to cut costs. AFAIK, the sport is still available for ~$650 these days.

In the $750-$900 range, you have almost too many options to list. And again, some are better than others at the same price point. In this price range, you can get a quality, no frills AR from a reputable manufacturer. Del-Ton, DSA, Palmetto, RRA to name a few.

I disagree with the above list representing quality rifles from reputable manufacturers. Del-Ton is a quality rifle from reputable manufacturer? Since when?


$900-$1,200 opens the door to some very good ARs. This is the mid-tier range today (it was top teir a few years back, before the high end stuff emerged) Armalite, Colt, BCM, CMMG, Stag, S&W and a host of others offer basic and some enhanced models to meet this budget.

I disagree even more with calling Colt or BCM anything mid-tier.

I mean...are you freaking kidding me?



$1,200-$1,800 is getting you into some of the more basic guns from higher end manufacturers like LMT, Noveske, Daniel Defense. Very, very good rifles.

Very good rifles indeed.




http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=680655

Ala Dan
October 22, 2012, 04:52 PM
Why is there NO Rock River Arms "Operator" listed among the 5.56 caliber
AR's~>? :eek: ;)

MrCleanOK
October 22, 2012, 06:44 PM
The name brand "Mercedes vs Toyota" comparison is a silly oversimplification. Either your gun shop employee doesn't understand the differences, or he doesn't expect that you will. Remember that he is trying to sell a product and make a buck. Gun store employees are about the worst source for credible, unbiased information.

This thread right here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56063) from M4carbine.net is exactly why a "Mercedes and Toyota" AR15 are not the same. It's up to you to determine if the added expense of quality testing and building a rifle the "right way" are worth it to you. That decision should ultimately be based on what you want to use your rifle for, and what risk you are prepared to take

EDIT: This thread (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009) is also a treasure trove of knowledge that you may be interested in. Bear in mind, M4C.net is a website that focuses on M4-type defensive AR15's, and the bias there is toward top-quality rifles. If you are looking for something to just shoot at the range, or just hunt with, then some of the information may not be pertinent to you. Either way, a little education is never a bad thing.

MachIVshooter
October 23, 2012, 03:54 AM
Del-Ton is a quality rifle from reputable manufacturer? Since when?

Since every single one I've played with or watched being used has run flawlessly.

And Del-Ton, like many others, offers options. Maybe you can get one to hang up if you opt for the cheapest barrel and then feed it lacquered cases until it chokes on the goo, but DTI sells chromoly, chrome lined and stainless tubes for a little more money.

I disagree even more with calling Colt or BCM anything mid-tier.

I mean...are you freaking kidding me?

So you think they're on par with Noveske, LaRue, et al?

The spectrum has simply shifted. I plainly stated that those currently in the mid teir bracket were top-end rifles before the appearance of these really high end guns in more recent years. The best is only the best until something better comes along.

Me personally? I'm just fine with the rifles in this class. I consider the Colt and BCM to be very fine weapons. I'm more of an Armalite guy, though.

Warp
October 23, 2012, 03:58 AM
So you think they're on par with Noveske, LaRue, et al?

The spectrum has simply shifted. I plainly stated that those currently in the mid teir bracket were top-end rifles before the appearance of these really high end guns in more recent years. The best is only the best until something better comes along.

Me personally? I'm just fine with the rifles in this class. I consider the Colt and BCM to be very fine weapons. I'm more of an Armalite guy, though.

If Colt and BCM are what you consider mid-tier, where do you put PSA? Spikes? Bushmaster? Double Star?

MachIVshooter
October 23, 2012, 04:20 AM
If Colt and BCM are what you consider mid-tier, where do you put PSA? Spikes? Bushmaster? Double Star?

PSA: Depends on options, range from economy to mid-tier.

Spikes: Same as PSA

Bushmaster: Overpriced economy guns, below the quality of less expensive economy guns in my experience. Same for DPMS. Bushy and DPMS are about half a notch above Century and Olympic, IMO (which are also way overpriced for what they are).

Double Star: Can't say, no experience with them.

Now, generally speaking, I don't really consider built rifles from PSA, spikes, Del-Ton and the like. To me, these companies are parts suppliers, and you get some things from them, and you get other -better- things elswhere in the areas it matters more. Like I said, nothing wrong with a DTI upper if you opt for the chrome lined tube, then source a good BCG and put it on a decent lower.

I was actually quite impressed with the LPK's I got from PSA. Nothing wrong with any of the parts, and the triggers break short and clean at 6.6 lbs with a short reset. And the machining quality, fit and finish on these DSA lowers (which are only $75 before shipping and transfer) is excellent. The fit between the DSA lower and the WMD NiBX upper on my pistol is perfect, and tight enough that I can't quite pull the pin with finger nails.

TCBPATRIOT
October 23, 2012, 04:47 AM
Check out a Sig M400. I shot one last week I overall thought it to be a damned fine rifle and you can get it for somewhere in the mid 800$ range.

Girodin
October 23, 2012, 02:31 PM
I personally wouldn't get a piston AR. If I wanted a gun with a piston I would look at some other guns.

What is your price range?

Personally I would not buy a del ton. I'm sure there are many happy owners. I also would imagine most of them don't have the same uses for their rifles that I do for mine.

The mercedes toyota analogy is not a good one IMHO as it may mislead people about what the differences really are. The difference in those cars is more a level of comfort, plushness and prestige, while depending on models the Merc may also have more performance. Both are going to start and run (in fact IME the toyota has the edge there). When it comes to ARs its not a matter of one being more plush. It is a matter of reliability, durability, and accuracy. It is a matter of the odds of getting a gun that will work right and continue to do so under harsh conditions. The difference in ARs is typically found in the barrel and the bolt carrier group.

I've shot with guys that have less than reliable ARs. An unreliable gun at best in not fun and depending on use can be dangerous.

Unless you spend more than you can afford you will never regret buying the superior gun. People often regret buying inferior gear.

If you can afford it, I'd look at Noveske and the like. As others have stated Colt, DD, and BCM are all very good guns. Personally I'd lean towards a BCM, but I'd shop around and go with what offered the best value.

Below that I would get a PSA. It is better than many of the others and often not as expensive. It is on par with a spikes but less expensive and the owners don't act like children online. PSA often has sales that offer some very good values.

For a first AR I would get a 5.56.

powder
October 23, 2012, 03:03 PM
Rock River makes the AK/AR now.

SIG M400 as noted above for 5.56...

checkmyswag
October 23, 2012, 11:52 PM
For the money, I think the M&P Sport is a great deal.

MachIVshooter
October 24, 2012, 01:19 AM
The mercedes toyota analogy is not a good one IMHO as it may mislead people about what the differences really are.

How about Mercedes/GM?

Mercedes doesn't really make a low end car. They make lower of the high end to really high end. Like Noveske, et al.

GM offers everything from rebadged bottom of the barrel imports to the Corvette. Similarly, companies like Spikes, Palmetto, etc. offer the most basic rifles you can buy at super low prices, but also a whole range of upgrade options, the top end of which are really nice guns.

Girodin
October 24, 2012, 01:56 AM
I think the problem with the analogy is that it tends to mischaracterize the nature of differences between the guns.

Certainly some will say this goes too far the other way, but perhaps the difference is more akin to a Merc vs a ford pinto. The latter is not well built and might get you killed.

meanmrmustard
October 24, 2012, 04:52 AM
For the money, I think the M&P Sport is a great deal.
Agreed. Forget all the "tier" stuff when a Sport comes to play. They just straight run, and you don't feel undergunned.

As for piston ARs, I'd buy one. Carrier tilt is pretty much a non issue anymore, I don't mind a little extra weight (negligible to say the least),accuracy is par for the course, they run cooler and don't crap where they eat. I hate that about the Stoner design, filthy filthy. Only thing ill give to the purists is that parts are proprietary, for now.

Girodin
October 24, 2012, 03:12 PM
They just straight run,

Have you seen them run hard with a suppressor (genuine question)? This seems to be a task that really starts separating the wheat from chaff in the AR world.

don't crap where they eat.

One thing I've found is that if you run a piston gun suppressed there is enough blow back that they get just as dirty as a DI guns.

meanmrmustard
October 24, 2012, 06:13 PM
Have you seen them run hard with a suppressor (genuine question)? This seems to be a task that really starts separating the wheat from chaff in the AR world.



One thing I've found is that if you run a piston gun suppressed there is enough blow back that they get just as dirty as a DI guns.
To answer all your inquiries, I don't use suppressors (serious answer). So, it's a non issue for me personally. Not because I don't want to, I just don't need to.

I've seen the Sport run hard, and have done so (our ideas of "hard" may very) putting several hundred rounds through it in a day, various days here and there when time allows.. Nary a whimper, and they're accurate to boot. I like 4140 barrels myself, and the Sport runs like a top.

Piston ARs, well, I'd like one but its not in the cards for me as of late. But, I wouldn't mind one for sure. Unfortunately, I've got my eye on another Sport, a PSA, Stag or Colt. I like them all, they do their job.

CMC
October 24, 2012, 07:34 PM
I got the DPMS Sportical for $590 $640 out the door.
I could have bought the Colt for 1220 but I used the money money to buy ammo.
I read a lot about how bad they are yadayada , but I figure I found out by my own experience.
I just wanted a rifle for plinking and have fun with it, so far 300 rounds without a failure and very accurate to boot, one inch grous at 100 yards from the bench with a 3 power scope.
I got a friend who bought a LMT (308) high end for 2500 bucks but he cant afford to shoot it, he does not reload and the rifle does not work well ( dents the brass and reecoils very hard)with 308 as it is fine tuned for 7.62 which operates at lower pressure ( 50 ksi versus 62 ksi).

Dave1965
October 24, 2012, 07:56 PM
I would stay away from sportical.

fanchisimo
October 24, 2012, 10:41 PM
I would strip away the stigma that comes with brand names and look at features on each rifle cause using comparisons for car manufacturers and rifle manufacturers is like comparing apples to oranges. Once you have picked the features you want, then look at the brand offerings and reputation.

I love my PSA AR, but originally picked it because it offered a lot of mil-spec parts at a good price, not because of it's brand name. Still hoping to get one of their 6.8 uppers some day.

I owned a DPMS Sportical a few years back and it ran fine, but I didn't shoot it much or put it through it's paces as I would now.

skywalkrNCSU
October 24, 2012, 11:32 PM
A brand name typically implies those features

Warp
October 25, 2012, 12:20 AM
A brand name typically implies those features

It often does.

You don't find anything by BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, Noveske, LMT, LaRue, etc etc that wasn't built with very high quality parts.

DWS1117
October 25, 2012, 12:26 AM
You've been given some very good advice and I can only add my very limited experience.

I'm currently on my second AR. First was a Bushmaster bought during the '94 ban. It has since been sold for financial reasons. It was a good rifle and bought used. My second and newest rifle is from a stripped Stag lower and a Del-ton upper. A friend helped me build it out. So far I have nothing negative to say about the upper. It is a base model upper and I bought it for about $375. So yes the is a budget rifle. Accuracy has been fine for me and function has been 100%.

If your budget can handle it then by all means look into others but don't be afraid of some of the smaller budget manufacturers either.

Now, in my opinion I prefer to buy a basic rifle and build it up myself choosing the parts such as handguards, stocks, grips, and optics. I know you can buy a built rifle and probably with all your desired features but I find it more fun and a way for an AR noob like myself to learn more about the rifle.

Whichever direction you choose enjoy and have fun.

Warp
January 20, 2013, 03:57 PM
I would not buy a del-ton.

If I was going to take a step down from the "Top Tier" companies I'd probably look at a PSA or a S&W M&P15. Or perhaps a Stag. But not a del-ton, not a bushmaster, not a DPMS. But that's just me.


Annnnnd I bought a Bushmaster.

I'm still not sure why in the hell I did that. I still way there won't be an "assault weapon" ban. But I'm not nearly as positive as I was before Newtown.

It was the old retail price...which I considered way too much money for the quality you don't get...but these days having a secondary/backup/beater complete rifle for $800 didn't sound like such a bad idea.

We'll see how it performs. First range trip planned for Tuesday.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20130118_151032_zps016b7c8b.jpg

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