Dane county judge shoots down use of hounds in wolf hunt


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Feanor
August 31, 2012, 06:10 PM
Victory for those of us that worked so hard, and for so long, to help re-establish gray wolves in Wisconsin, Dane county judge has barred the use of dogs in the upcoming wolf hunt, which because of the way the stupid law was written, is now very likely not to happen at all!

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/fate-of-wolf-hunt-in-question-after-judge-puts-injunction/article_1000f252-f3ab-11e1-93f1-0019bb2963f4.html

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303tom
August 31, 2012, 11:11 PM
Good for him................

Art Eatman
August 31, 2012, 11:26 PM
I'm not sure that I can get upset at dogs getting hurt when they're doing what comes naturally. However, getting a controllable hunting pack developed is no small order, and it takes a lot of time and effort. I guess I'd be opposed to the probable mix of untrained dog-hunters and untrained dogs.

Doesn't strike me as the same as using dogs on deer or on feral hogs. But even there you don't take just any old hound and sail off into the boonies in the hope that something good comes of it.

Girodin
August 31, 2012, 11:59 PM
All this really means is they are going to go back and write regulations and do it next year. Further rulings may mean something else.

Feanor
September 1, 2012, 12:57 AM
I'm not sure that I can get upset at dogs getting hurt when they're doing what comes naturally. However, getting a controllable hunting pack developed is no small order, and it takes a lot of time and effort. I guess I'd be opposed to the probable mix of untrained dog-hunters and untrained dogs.

Doesn't strike me as the same as using dogs on deer or on feral hogs. But even there you don't take just any old hound and sail off into the boonies in the hope that something good comes of it.
The issues springing forth from the legislatures inclusion of hounds were epic, not a single wolf has fallen to the bear hounders and their mutts, that's not counting the ones that the hounders illegally poached while they were in the act of killing their dogs, which have been more then a few.

The gray wolf depredations of dogs have not been the result of big, bad, gray wolves snatching helpless poodles from folks back yards. With but a few exceptions(a few bird dogs have been depredated), most of the gray wolf depredations of so-called pet dogs, have been of either bear hounds, or bobcat hounds, period! These encounters have all ended in exactly the same fashion, with a dead, or maimed hound! Yet if you read the local press accounts you'd not know this, they simply report these depredations as innocent pets getting clipped by evil gray wolves, which is a total distortion of the facts.

Wolves are not afraid of dogs, and in fact dogs are terrified of gray wolves, regardless of the size of the breed, the hounders know this better then anyone, they've learned it the hard way. Wolves will not be run like a bear or bobcat might be, they will turn and confront the mutts everytime, and then kill them. The hounders knew this to be true from experience, yet they wrote the law(Scott Suder)to allow for dogs.

Do the math.

Art Eatman
September 1, 2012, 10:49 AM
Strikes me as silly to use an ineffectual means in hunting. Since the use of dogs doesn't work, why even consider it? Dumb.

Pardon my ignorance, but how often would a pack of dogs find a single, solitary wolf? Finding a family group of wolves, seems to me, would be an unwelcome discovery, since very few dogs can go one-on-one with a wolf.

Patocazador
September 1, 2012, 02:57 PM
Victory for those of us that worked so hard, and for so long, to help re-establish gray wolves in Wisconsin, Dane county judge has barred the use of dogs in the upcoming wolf hunt, which because of the way the stupid law was written, is now very likely not to happen at all!
Someone loves wolves ... and HATES dogs. I think that's backwards.

JohnM
September 1, 2012, 03:05 PM
It sounds like we in Wyoming are going to finally get some control of the wolf population spreading through our state.

Feanor
September 1, 2012, 03:06 PM
Strikes me as silly to use an ineffectual means in hunting. Since the use of dogs doesn't work, why even consider it? Dumb.

Pardon my ignorance, but how often would a pack of dogs find a single, solitary wolf? Finding a family group of wolves, seems to me, would be an unwelcome discovery, since very few dogs can go one-on-one with a wolf.
Well there you go! It was so over the top, that they lost the support of landowners such as myself immediately. The feeling was that this was a not so subtle move toward revenge!

I have few doubts as to what kind of person(s)would have been attracted to such an obviously brutal blood sport, and what kind of animals they were looking to train to run down wolves, and how. We have no need of such people in Wisconsin. My opinion is allow the wolves a couple three years off the list, loosen the restraints upon those ranchers/farmers that have a proven problem on their hands, and see how things play out, then act from there.

Feanor
September 1, 2012, 03:18 PM
Someone loves wolves ... and HATES dogs. I think that's backwards.
How profound, yes its all about hatred of dogs. Every dog on earth, every last one of them, is a descendant of gray wolves.

a-sheepdog
September 1, 2012, 03:30 PM
Personally, I would do whatever I can to control the wolf populations as they kill deer and elk. I like dogs, but simply don't care for the wild variety.

qwert65
September 1, 2012, 03:54 PM
I believe the Irish wolfhound was used to hunt wolves very effectively.

wyohome
September 1, 2012, 04:16 PM
It sounds like we in Wyoming are going to finally get some control of the wolf population spreading through our state.

It has been a long time coming. A large percentage of those who thought re-intoduction was a good idea are now pretty silent.

JohnM
September 1, 2012, 04:24 PM
Oh, you can bet there's probably going to be some tricks tried to stop this last agreement between the Feds and the State, but I think it'll go pretty much as it's laid out now.
I live out on the rez and I still don't know what'll happen out here.

wyohome
September 1, 2012, 04:32 PM
Do you live on the Wind River? Have they been shooting them all along down there?

JohnM
September 1, 2012, 04:41 PM
My place is on the river. No one around here would shoot a wolf. That's been illegal doncha know?

wyohome
September 1, 2012, 04:42 PM
I had heard that, but didn't know if the natives were going along with it.

JohnM
September 1, 2012, 04:50 PM
We're all cattlemen out here, those wolves ain't been well received.
Our biggest problem is still grizzlies, but we have a big wolf pack that travels through here.

Art Eatman
September 1, 2012, 05:48 PM
Er, uh, Wisconsin. Remember Wisconsin? That's the thread's area for discussion.

JohnM
September 1, 2012, 05:55 PM
Wisconsin? Oh yeah, well my family was there when it was the frontier before it was a territory.
Got too crowded I guess and they just kept kinda heading west. :D

buck460XVR
September 1, 2012, 07:23 PM
I think this sentence from the linked article says it all....
Wisconsin is the only state that has approved the use of dogs to hunt wolves.




As Feanor said, Wolves will not tree like bears, cats or coon. They will not run till exhaustion like coyotes. They are also not solitary animals like the aforementioned. They are pack animals and know very well how to lure dogs into a scenario where the pack has the advantage over them, i.e., numbers, size and ferocity. What I hear is the reasoning behind the injunction was the idea that houndsmen would "pad" their dog numbers with individuals that were not trained or even considered wolf dogs, with the idea that the smaller untrained animals would be bait to keep the wolves close long enough for the hunters to catch up and shoot. It would also give the prized and trained hounds a better chance of surviving the encounter. There is also the thought that the type of dogs successful for wolf hunting would be bad news for a bird or rabbit dog that they may encounter in the heat of the hunt. Either way, the use of dogs for hunting wolves here was not very well thought out.






The gray wolf depredations of dogs have not been the result of big, bad, gray wolves snatching helpless poodles from folks back yards. With but a few exceptions(a few bird dogs have been depredated), most of the gray wolf depredations of so-called pet dogs, have been of either bear hounds, or bobcat hounds, period!



One of the most highly publicized instance of dog predation by wolves was just a few miles from here.....and it was, simply the snatching(or in better terms, the luring) of dogs from the owner's back yards.......repeatably. I believe the DNR killed a total of 9 animals from the Bear Bluff pack because of this. Here is a link to an article about it.......DNR eradicates Bear Bluff Pack (http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_ba7776cc-f248-11df-a96d-001cc4c03286.html)

While I feel the wolf has a valuable place in our vast ecosystem, I also believe, like the rest of wildlife, that it's numbers be evaluated and controlled to keep the animals healthy and leery of human intervention and contact. Hunting and trapping has historically always been a good way to do this. Done humanely and correctly, it still is.

Feanor
September 1, 2012, 07:40 PM
Personally, I would do whatever I can to control the wolf populations as they kill deer and elk. I like dogs, but simply don't care for the wild variety.
Well thats a point of contention, you see here in Wisconsin, Wolves take no more then 16,000 deer each year, give or take. I have far far greater issues with the 1.4-2,000,000 deer then I have ever had with the 800 or so wolves!

You are encouraged to visit WDNR's web site, they keep depredation stats for various wild game v their imapact on the ag industry. Its a joke, wolves tally around $300,000 a year, while white tail eat multiple millions in grains every year!

Just this spring, WDNR released a ridiculous study, in which they called for the reduction of the white tail herd from 1.whatever million, down to 750,000 animals! Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan are I believe 1, 2, and 3 in the nation for size of their respective deer herds.

So you see, your statement is simply not born out by the facts, here we are(WI,MN.MI) with the nations(48)largest wolf population(by far), and we also happen to have the nations largest, genetically strongest, white tail deer herd.

In Wiscosnin, we kill more deer every three months in auto collisions then wolves tally up for the entire year! There is a study(again look to WDNR's web site)that actually has bobcat claiming more white tail each year than do wolves!

Last year, in Rusk county, which is directly in the red beating heart of gray wolfdom on earth, last year, I had the opportunity to purchase as many as twenty anterless deer tags if I so wished for just two bucks each!

Wolves are no threat to the deer.

Robert
September 1, 2012, 09:31 PM
Since when does a county judge decide state hunting regs? Would the DOW have something to say. And knock off the anti dog hunting drama.

Feanor
September 1, 2012, 10:05 PM
And knock off the anti dog hunting drama.


No! You have little understanding of the issues in Wisconsin surrounding the use of dogs for running down game animals, its an extremely controversial practice. One could just as easily invite you to simply knock off your "anti hunting ethics" drama!

Art Eatman
September 1, 2012, 11:38 PM
Looks like the important issues of the OP have been pretty well covered.

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