Removing unfired primers


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sigep749
September 3, 2012, 10:36 AM
Dumb question, how do I go about removing unfired primers? I had some rounds that apparently didn't get sized or rectory and I didn't discover until the loads were complete. I can pull the bullets nd salvage the powder, but is there a way to salvage the primers?

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azjohn
September 3, 2012, 10:41 AM
Pull your de-capping pin then resize.

Ky Larry
September 3, 2012, 10:44 AM
Lots of folks say you can just deprime the same as spent primer and reuse them like new primers.I've never done this so I can't say either way. You could just shoot the primer and then process as usual. How many cases are we talking about?

dap22
September 3, 2012, 10:54 AM
I've never had a problem (yet that is) removing/decapping live primers. Simply decap slowly and deliberately. I've also reused previously decapped primers without issue. Others may say differently but it's worked fine for me.

beatledog7
September 3, 2012, 11:02 AM
Yep, resize without the pin if all you want to do is size the brass. Then just rebuild the rounds normally.

If you want those primers for another application, you can use your sizing die or a universal decapper to gently press out unfired primers. They are designed to fire only from a sharp strike to the center of the cup face, so pressing gently on the anvil should not do it. Still, wear safety glasses and hearing protection.

Primers removed in this way can be reused. I recently backed out a hundred primers from old .223 tracer rounds (unknown brand, of course) without incident and have reused a couple dozen or so with 100% bang rate. You could easily test a few by resizing brass normally, recovering the primers, reseating them, and firing them in your gun.

Bet your next paycheck they go bang.

mdi
September 3, 2012, 02:31 PM
I've never had a problem (yet that is) removing/decapping live primers. Simply decap slowly and deliberately. I've also reused previously decapped primers without issue. Others may say differently but it's worked fine for me.
I've had the same experience...

jcwit
September 3, 2012, 02:58 PM
Once again, primers ignite from impact, SHARP IMPACT, not from pressure from pushing out. This is why the firing pin has such a strong spring.

Take the decapping out of your resizing die and resize. Or deprime and catch the unfired primers and reseat.

There you go!

gamestalker
September 3, 2012, 04:50 PM
Pull the bullets, and then as stated, slowly and with constant pressure decap them. I've done a good number of them like this for decades and have never had one pop.
So far as reusing primers, I have never done that because I don't want to experience what would be my first mis-fire in over 30 yrs. of reloading.

GS

Leatherstocking
September 3, 2012, 05:37 PM
Have had a few primers go off when inserting with a defective Lee Loader. (Lee replaced the priming base).
No big deal, a puff of smoke, v. little noise. Wear your glasses.

kfelder
September 3, 2012, 11:41 PM
I have deprimed live primers with no issues. In this case I agree with what several others have said a remove the decapping rod and just resize. I have also done this. So, both ways will work just fine.

Hondo 60
September 3, 2012, 11:47 PM
Lots of folks say you can just deprime the same as spent primer and reuse them like new primers.

I'm one of those "Lots of folks"
I've done it many of times & had absolutely zero issues.
Just don't slam the handle down & you can SAFELY deprime.

But why go through all that?
Just remove the decapping pin as azjohn suggested in post #2.

Gtimothy
September 4, 2012, 12:20 AM
No problem depriming good primers but wear those safety glasses just in case!

bbuddtec
September 4, 2012, 12:57 AM
yep, live de-primer here, unless I feel like using it as a cap for fun, :)

I just make contact, then slowly continue through...

...always with safeties on, cuz if jic happens, that anvil or cup may be airborne....

1SOW
September 4, 2012, 01:21 AM
Just resize and load it up, or remove the primer and start from scratch..
I'm one of those "lots of people" who have deprimed many pistol cases--all soft Feds.
The strike has to compress the primer to hit the anvil before it will fire. "Pushing" a primer out won't fire it.

Clark
September 4, 2012, 01:27 PM
I would not de cap live primers with a Lee loader pin and hammer... not without safety glasses and hearing protection.

jcwit
September 4, 2012, 03:44 PM
I would not de cap live primers with a Lee loader pin and hammer... not without safety glasses and hearing protection.


Well actually neither do I, but just wondering why the safety glasses are a must? The base of the case is enclosed, the punch isn't going to go flying, and its very doubtful the hammer will bounce off the punch.

There's nowhere for anything to go.

Zeke/PA
September 4, 2012, 04:33 PM
De-cap, Wearing Safety Glasses,dispose of the old primer, Tumble the brass,
Clean thoroughly, Full length resize, reload!
This is precisely what I did for a friend this past week when he needed some trial ammo .

ZXD9
September 7, 2012, 02:08 PM
Decap as you would spent primers. I do this but S L O W L Y.

dagger dog
September 7, 2012, 02:45 PM
If you are going to deprime them live use a press and goggles.

jcwit
September 8, 2012, 12:17 PM
Once again, why the safety goggles? Everything is enclosed by the decapping die and decapping pin, and the only direction for the primer to go if in fact it does go off, which it won't, is down unless the operator is using a hand held press.

Nappers
September 8, 2012, 12:25 PM
I'm sure the first time someone had an accidental discharge "thought it was unloaded".

Wear the goggles, or at least glasses. Better to be safe than sorry.

Again, it's a small explosion, where could it possibly go? in your eye under the right circumstances.

bds
September 8, 2012, 12:50 PM
Wear the goggles, or at least glasses. Better to be safe than sorry ... it's a small explosion, where could it possibly go? in your eye under the right circumstances.
Definitely +1 on eye protection and do not underestimate the explosive potential and the velocity of primer cup/anvil.

I cooked off a primer inside two stainless steel mixing bowls for the Tula SP primer review thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7806689#post7806689) (don't worry, the bowls are for garage use only) and the explosive force dented the bowl surface (dent mark matches anvil feet pattern). :eek:

IMO, that force/velocity could have easily penetrated the eye. I now have renewed respect for the priming compound's energy and will continue to wear eye protection when handling primers.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154965&stc=1&d=1324234466
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154964&stc=1&d=1324234466

jcwit
September 8, 2012, 04:27 PM
Wear the goggles, or at least glasses. Better to be safe than sorry.

Again, it's a small explosion, where could it possibly go? in your eye under the right circumstances.

Definitely +1 on eye protection and do not underestimate the explosive potential and the velocity of primer cup/anvil.

I cooked off a primer inside two stainless steel mixing bowls for the Tula SP primer review thread (don't worry, the bowls are for garage use only) and the explosive force dented the bowl surface (dent mark matches anvil feet pattern).

IMO, that force/velocity could have easily penetrated the eye. I now have renewed respect for the priming compound's energy and will continue to wear eye protection when handling primers.

But we are not discussing cooking off primers. We are in fact talking about removing live primers with a press using a die. Every die I seen for removing primers encloses the case and the depriming pin encloses the inside of the case thus the primer and the star anvil have only one way to go, out of the case head towards the shell holder which also encloses the back of said case. Primer can then only go out thru the shell holder and down thru the ram. Nothing going up towards the operator unless they approach their table and press a whole lot differently than I do.

Wear safety glasses or goggles if you wish but whats the purpose?

ColtPythonElite
September 8, 2012, 04:31 PM
Been knocking them out with a sizing die for years. Matter of fact, I did a half a dozen yesterday.

bds
September 8, 2012, 04:40 PM
jcwit, you may be right for "this" thread as I also have deprimed live primers.

My recommendation was for "general" safe practice of primer handling as plenty of reloaders have posted mishaps of primer tubes and other primer detonations depending on the equipment used.

bukijin
September 9, 2012, 08:21 AM
Once again, why the safety goggles?

I thought it was standard practice to always wear eye protection when reloading. Why take a risk with your eyes ?

Nappers
September 9, 2012, 08:59 AM
But we are not discussing cooking off primers. We are in fact talking about removing live primers with a press using a die. Every die I seen for removing primers encloses the case and the depriming pin encloses the inside of the case thus the primer and the star anvil have only one way to go, out of the case head towards the shell holder which also encloses the back of said case. Primer can then only go out thru the shell holder and down thru the ram. Nothing going up towards the operator unless they approach their table and press a whole lot differently than I do.

Wear safety glasses or goggles if you wish but whats the purpose?


Let's get back to the original question.

Yes you can pop out primers. I've had them fall apart, so....check them out and reuse as you need.

Jcwit, keep you don't have to use eye protection. When a primer goes off and sends the decapping pin, or possibly the die shattering due to poor heat treatment into your face. Don't come crawling back to us. In the meantime, please be careful. I would not want that to happen to any of our members.

I use clear shooting glasses.

jcwit
September 9, 2012, 12:49 PM
cwit, keep you don't have to use eye protection. When a primer goes off and sends the decapping pin, or possibly the die shattering due to poor heat treatment into your face. Don't come crawling back to us. In the meantime, please be careful. I would not want that to happen to any of our members.



You are pulling my leg, right?

If not,you know little of primers, and their limited power.

Been reloading for 50+ years and reload for 40 different calibers now.

As far as a primer blowing up a sizing die, for heavens sake never thake the chance of walking down the street! Or worse yet driving down the road!

Regarding the primer blowing the depriming pin out, that can easily be held with ones fingers. How do I know? Have had primers go off when using the Lee Loader, nothing went flying anywhere other than the cat left the room quickly from the loud POP.

bds
September 9, 2012, 02:25 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=654508

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171348&stc=1&d=1347211477

jcwit
September 9, 2012, 06:07 PM
Yes this is possible, but again this is not a single live primer in a case being removed.

As the first post referenced in the link states it was approx 100 primers that went off. Also blowing up the plastic Lee Auto-Prime mechanism is a whole lot different than blowing up a steel sizing/decapping die with a single primer in a single case or blowing the depriming rod/punch out of said die or even ones fingers if using the Lee Loader Kit, again with a single primer in a single case. Just ain't gonna happen.

Looks as if we're trying to go down 2 different roads here.

ranger335v
September 9, 2012, 07:40 PM
"When a primer goes off and sends the decapping pin, or possibly the die shattering due to poor heat treatment into your face. Don't come crawling back to us."

That's not possible so the lack of sympathy will have no application. First, a primer can't blow a decap pin down and the decap/expander stem blocks a decap pin from going up so that fear is baseless. Second, a size/decap die could be mild steel with no case hardening at all and a primer would do it no harm, primers are tiny and just don't have the power of a stick of movie dynamite.

Showing a photo of a chain fire event in a magazine fed auto primer has no relivance to a popped single primer in a press, even in the highly unlikely event it should happen.

Pushing out live primers is hardly more hazardous to our health than pushing out spent primers. It would be foolish to allow a pile of live primers to collect in the spent primer catcher but that's a totally different question than simply pushing them out.

bds
September 9, 2012, 09:11 PM
I do realize a single primer being deprimed would be OK.

However, primer detonations have happened in the past and even plastic parts moving at enough velocities could do some harm to your eyes. I still say eye protection is good insurance when handling primers.

How about exploding/flying primer feed tube? http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8101566#post8101566

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171375&stc=1&d=1347235913

Nappers
September 9, 2012, 11:35 PM
I know I was exaggerating a bit. But I just want ALL of us to be safe. I also don't wear glasses all the time. I don't know a lot about primers and their explosive properties, but when one can dislodge a bullet and send it the most part of a barrel it concerns me.

Let's be safe guys. And Jcwit, sorry about the comment. I just want everyone to be safe. Things can happen when we least expect it. and I tend to lash out after 12 hours in the klink and my fingers move without my brain being engaged.

cat left the room quickly from the loud POP

See, a cat in the eye is no joke!!! :D

jcwit
September 10, 2012, 12:33 AM
Let's be safe guys. And Jcwit, sorry about the comment. I just want everyone to be safe. Things can happen when we least expect it. and I tend to lash out after 12 hours in the klink and my fingers move without my brain being engaged.



I would probably be more than a little short and not very sweet after putting up with the &(%$#)&* you put up with------12 hours, MAN.

Nappers
September 10, 2012, 01:52 AM
I would probably be more than a little short and not very sweet after putting up with the &(%$#)&* you put up with------12 hours, MAN.

And after 18 years of it too!

danbowkley
September 10, 2012, 03:05 AM
I've decapped plenty of live primers, never had an issue. I even deliberately tried to set one off in my press by decapping it somewhat vigorously and couldn't do it.

Having said that, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Wear the ^%$@# glasses.

ArchAngelCD
September 10, 2012, 03:25 AM
I NEVER do anything pertaining to reloading without putting on the safety glasses. I have 2 pair hanging on the back of the bench so there are no excuses not to use them.

Everyone should use safety glasses when reloading and do so all the time... This way on the very outside change a live primer goes off you only have to clean your drawers and not mend your eyes! LOL

RetiredUSNChief
September 10, 2012, 03:44 AM
But we are not discussing cooking off primers. We are in fact talking about removing live primers with a press using a die. Every die I seen for removing primers encloses the case and the depriming pin encloses the inside of the case thus the primer and the star anvil have only one way to go, out of the case head towards the shell holder which also encloses the back of said case. Primer can then only go out thru the shell holder and down thru the ram. Nothing going up towards the operator unless they approach their table and press a whole lot differently than I do.

Wear safety glasses or goggles if you wish but whats the purpose?

The whole point of safety glasses is...safety.

Never forget that what you are hangling is explosive in nature. Not explosive like small caps in a cap gun...explosive as in more than enough to cause physical harm to one of the most delicate sensory organs in your body...your eyes.

"Nothing going up towards the operator" is not an excuse, either. As bds pointed out, rather graphically, the primers contain a significant amount of energy, which translates into velocity and force. That energy will find a way out, around, and/or through everything around it. Particulate matter bouncing off tools and hands positioned over and inside the cartridge during the depriming can end up in plenty of unpredictable places. Including one's eyes.

And they'll be moving at velocities faster than a blinking eye can react to protect, too.

Personal Protective Equipment is a precautionary measure against reasonablly hazardous circumstances as much as a directly protective measure against known dangers. I personally wouldn't want to read of any member who suffered an eye injury which could have been so easily prevented.

:):)

Sport45
September 10, 2012, 04:09 AM
I never considered myself lucky in the eyesight department, but one advantage is that I always have my safety glasses on...

Otherwise, I probably wouldn't think about eye protection when reloading. But it is always a good idea.

I won't bother with hearing protection though. I'll save that for when I'm pulling bullets and shooting. Not saying it isn't a good idea, just that I'm willing to accept the risk.

jcwit
September 10, 2012, 10:46 AM
The whole point of safety glasses is...safety.

Never forget that what you are hangling is explosive in nature. Not explosive like small caps in a cap gun...explosive as in more than enough to cause physical harm to one of the most delicate sensory organs in your body...your eyes.

"Nothing going up towards the operator" is not an excuse, either. As bds pointed out, rather graphically, the primers contain a significant amount of energy, which translates into velocity and force. That energy will find a way out, around, and/or through everything around it. Particulate matter bouncing off tools and hands positioned over and inside the cartridge during the depriming can end up in plenty of unpredictable places. Including one's eyes.

And they'll be moving at velocities faster than a blinking eye can react to protect, too.

Personal Protective Equipment is a precautionary measure against reasonablly hazardous circumstances as much as a directly protective measure against known dangers. I personally wouldn't want to read of any member who suffered an eye injury which could have been so easily prevented.



Have you ever had a primer "a single primer" go off while using a Lee Loader Kit? If not you know not of what you speak. And using a decaping die on a press is even safer and components are fully enclosed for the operator.

This is not a case of a few or many primers going off but a case of a single enclosed primer going off while fully enclosed. Less dangerous than popping off a primer in the guns chamber. In the gun the barrel end is still open.

If you wish to wear safety glasses fine, but there is no reason to as everything is enclosed. The instruction sheet I have does not even suggest the wearing of safety glasses.

BTW be sure to wear the glasses for eating, the grapefruit might squirt.

beatledog7
September 10, 2012, 11:03 AM
jcwit,

Have you ever gotten grapefruit juice in your eye? Smarts, a lot!

If I'm wearing safety glasses and a primer goes bang, and a piece of the anvil or cup bounces off my glasses, that eye still works as well as before the primer went pop. If you're not wearing safety glasses and the same thing happens, you're headed for the ER and will probably have less use of that eye from that point on on.

So, let's play the risk matrix game: If I'm wrong, all I lose is the couple of seconds it takes to put the glasses on. If you're wrong, you lose an eye.

I will choose to wear the glasses and keep my eye.

jcwit
September 10, 2012, 11:20 AM
So, let's play the risk matrix game: If I'm wrong, all I lose is the couple of seconds it takes to put the glasses on.


Read my post again, quoted here
If you wish to wear safety glasses fine,

If you're wrong, you lose an eye.

Actually I do wear glasses to see, have since I was 5 years old, I'm now 69. Further its not an issue, as all components are enclosed with nothing being able to fly out anyway, which I believe you would understand if you had really read my posts and checked your set-up.

If I'm wearing safety glasses and a primer goes bang, and a piece of the anvil or cup bounces off my glasses, that eye still works as well as before the primer went pop. If you're not wearing safety glasses and the same thing happens, you're headed for the ER and will probably have less use of that eye from that point on on.

A non issue. Again as stated, everything is enclosed. No way for the primer cup or anvil , or any piece of, or any tool or parts thereof to fly and hit your eye.

Get it now, really stop and think, think hard, look at the set up, think about what we're discussing. One primer being pressed out of a casing using a decapping die and a press or worse yet a Lee Loader Kit. Nothing in the open, nothing able to fly.

Get it now?

beatledog7
September 10, 2012, 01:24 PM
I get it, technically. I never didn't get it technically. People have been injured by things that supposedly could not injure them since the beginning of human time.

Eye protection and reloading go hand-in-hand, just like eye protection and shooting. Either you have the habit of always wearing it, or you pick and choose when you will and when you won't. Your call.

RetiredUSNChief
September 10, 2012, 11:34 PM
Have you ever had a primer "a single primer" go off while using a Lee Loader Kit? If not you know not of what you speak. And using a decaping die on a press is even safer and components are fully enclosed for the operator.

This is not a case of a few or many primers going off but a case of a single enclosed primer going off while fully enclosed. Less dangerous than popping off a primer in the guns chamber. In the gun the barrel end is still open.

If you wish to wear safety glasses fine, but there is no reason to as everything is enclosed. The instruction sheet I have does not even suggest the wearing of safety glasses.

BTW be sure to wear the glasses for eating, the grapefruit might squirt.


An interesting statement "If not you know not of what you speak". As if one must have that precise experience and safety related items, experience with anything else, & common sense do not apply.

As it happens, I am somewhat familiar with primers and what they can do, because I was quite the little pyromaniac when I was growing up. I'm here to tell you that the gases and particulates that are ejected from a primer when it's set off are plenty energetic enough to cause eye damage. Not because I suffered such, mind you, but because I've worked with them enough to see their effects.

Vented material from even the most minute explosive forces can cause eye damage and irritation. And even if there isn't any direct eye damage from the force, the irritation caused by foreign particles in the eye plus the chemicals present in the ejecta can cause eye injury.

Granted, the casing is mostly enclosed...but it's NOT pressure tight. Gases and particulate from an ignited primer would vent around and through gaps, including potentially through the primer hole if the primer did come loose suring the de-priming, and through the shell holder. The eye does not have to be directly in line with any of the venting gases to suffer damage. Any material stirred up in the process, or deflected by other objects, could cause eye damage.

Whether or not a person uses eye protection, or any other personal protective equipment, is ultimately up to them. At the personal level, it's a risk assessment the individual makes, based on their own evaluation of the circumstances.

Personally, I will not handle any explosive materials or chemicals without eye protection when I'm building or assembling things, like reloads.

And, believe it or not, I'm thankful that you haven't had any untoward issues with this in the decades you've been reloading. Count your blessings, my friend!

:):)

ArchAngelCD
September 11, 2012, 12:51 AM
Sounds like this horse has been beaten to death, re-beaten and then beaten again... :rolleyes:

jcwit
September 11, 2012, 03:14 AM
One last thought, do you carry a fire extinguisher with you when you gas up your lawn mower?

Remember we are/were discussing decapping a single primer from a casing using a die which totally encloses said case and primer except where it will go, which is down the ram and out. Further, in my presses the primer is ejected out the back of the ram away from the operator.

Folks here need to take a close look at a decaping/sizing die and their press set up. For a fact there is nowhere for the primer or particulates to go that would harm the operator.

But if you feel safer wearing safety glasses, by all means, have at it.

mtrmn
September 11, 2012, 11:02 AM
"Sounds like this horse has been beaten to death, re-beaten and then beaten again... "

Amen to that. It's perfectly safe to deprime live primers with your decapping die-just go slow. If you're scared-don't do it.

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