[beatledog7]

There's been an increase in forum traffic regarding carrying a cane, especially in places where firearms and even knives may be unwelcome.

I'm a runner, and lot of people know it. There's no way they'd ever buy into the idea that I'm using a cane to actually help me get around or maintain my balance, so how would I be able to justify it without openly saying it's for defense? Or should I even make any effort to hide what it's really about?

Thanks.

[hso]

No need to discuss it, but it is easy to point out that "rehab" is not just for quitters.

[Naybor]

I'm 68 and use a cane when my left knee acts up.
It's made of 1" wood with a pool ball sized head.
I did choose it for defense in mind. I for one would
hate to be beaned with it.

[JERRY]

for generations a "cane" was an everyday symbol of the posh man about town. as that faded only the infirm were seen using a cane.

you dont have to justify anything to anybody about your use of a cane to walk around with.

[beatledog7]

Thanks for the responses. It's true that many gentlemen used to carry a cane as more of a fashion accessory than an ambulatory aid. I could always say I just think it looks nice with my suit.

[bikerdoc]

Hi neighbor. A little older than you.
I look trim and fit and exercise regularly. But i am an orthopedic mess. If something does not hurt I get worried. Tell them when they pay your bills they can have an opinion.

[beatledog7]

Thanks, bikerdoc. I'm mostly sound but have had an anterior ankle job and sometimes deal with chondromalacia and even what I believe to be gout. There are days when I might actually benefit from using a cane.

[Deltaboy]

Just tell them it is an ole football( insert the sport) injury. A walking stick with out a crook would fit your needs prefectly.

[beatledog7]

A walking stick with out a crook would fit your needs prefectly.


Deltaboy:

It's volleyball and too much running. Why do you suggest that? I was actually thinking about a crooked hardwood cane.

[bikerdoc]

I prefer ball heads, just a matter of taste. If you like crooks go for it.

ETA if your at the gun show at the scope sat, you will recognize me.

[razzle]

I often carry a cane, sometimes the support is fir the knees, sometimes I just want the support of hane-head piece of hardwood. Last year I met a man in New Orleans. Said it was his last vacation before a knee replacement. Told him the knee replacement relieved my pain. He said why do you still carry the cane then? Explained the other uses of a cane,when you could not carry (I planned to have a few beers). He thought about it ands walked back to his car to get his cane, I like my bubbastik.

[Owen Sparks]

It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[hso]

It is better to have it and not need

Brother, don't I wish that were the case. :uhoh:

[Deltaboy]

Deltaboy:

It's volleyball and too much running. Why do you suggest that? I was actually thinking about a crooked hardwood cane.
IMO Ball heads seem to give a less than infirm look. But when I am hurting I just don't care and I use my crooked Stock Canes.

[Owen Sparks]

I like a minimal sized ball so that it can be used to thrust with just like the tip end. There are people who teach many different ways to use the crook to grab and control. They work but I don't advocate tying your weapon up in a real self-defense situation because criminal assaults often involve multiple opponants. The best restraining hold is a coma.

[CWL]

... It's true that many gentlemen used to carry a cane as more of a fashion accessory than an ambulatory aid. I could always say I just think it looks nice with my suit.

I have to point out that you are talking about a "walking stick", something technically different than a cane.

[Owen Sparks]

I have known of people who had dizzy spells brought on by inner ear trouble and needed a cane every once in a while to steady themselves. They might not need it again for six months.

[beatledog7]

I've decided to order a solid wood crook and start using it when I can't carry a firearm. Might like it so well that I carry even when I can carry a firearm.

Anyone have experience with Cane Masters?

Also, there is a lot of differing wisdom on cane length, and following various measuring procedures I get from 34.5" to 36". I'm just under 6' with fairly long arms--does it make sense to just buy it long and play with shortening it as I see how it feels?

[BullfrogKen]

If you alter your style of dress to the manner of the more "gentlemenly chap", it won't take long before those around you accept it. In fact, they'll be discussing your change in fashion much more than wondering why you're carrying that cane around with you. Get a nice tweed cap and take up pipe smoking to complete the image.

You'll come across as eccentric, but not "self-defense minded".


And subscribe the The Chap (http://thechapmagazine.co.uk/)magazine. Leave a few issues lying around your workplace, if those are the people you're concerned with.


Of course, you could contract a knee injury for a little while and stop "advertising" that you are a runner.


I'm not sure who the people are that you feel you need to worry about explaining why you're walking around with a cane.

[hso]

Anyone have experience with Cane Masters?

Several of us have posted about our Cane Master canes, but I've also purchased livestock canes and modified them to enhance their defensive use and consider them equal to the CMs.

there is a lot of differing wisdom on cane length

There's no fixed length because the cane has to fit the person using it. A cane should be as long as the distance from your watchband to the ground for walking with it. If it doesn't fit you for walking it won't be with you when you need it for defense.

[steven58]

I frequently carry a cane but don't use it as a 3d point of contact while walking.

If asked, and I haven't been yet, I'd just say "I don't need it for walking but it helps me to stand up" (the unspoken part of the response that renders it truthful is "when someone is trying to knock me down").

[EnglishmanInArizona]

I'm 26, with no injuries, and people know I am about to join the Army. Clearly I have no need of a cane.

I carry one each day now. I don't get any questions. A few beautiful women have commented on what a classy man I am, and what a beautiful cane it is. Good by me ;)

[blindhari]

Hello Englishman,
I was glad to see the cane you finished. If it fits your style and accents your personality even better.
Good job, well done,

blindhari

[Saakee]

from what i remember it's illegal to ask anyone if they actually need an item used by people due to the Americans With Disabilities Act. My friend takes her dog everywhere and they can't say no because it's her therapy dog (actually needed, not just a vest she bought which anyone can do).

[hso]

it's illegal to ask anyone if they actually need an item used by people due to the Americans With Disabilities Act

That's a myth that's oft repeated here.

[glistam]

Not so much a myth as improperly stated.

You can't be denied access to a place that is open to the public because of an assistive item, like a service dog or a cane or wheelchair. The proprietor is also not permitted to force you to divulge private medical information about yourself as a condition of entry or usage. Similarly, a police officer or guard cannot demand you disclose why you need a cane. You can be asked if the item is needed because of a disability, just not what the disability is. Mind you, when a person violates this law by denying you access, it's a civil matter, not a criminal one where you can call 911 and have them arrested. You'd have to sue them for denying you access or demanding medical information as a condition of entry. You can also inform the employee's superiors (if there are any) of their behavior.

That's as far as it goes. People asking you why you have a cane merely for curiosity falls outside the scope of these legal protections. It's rude, especially if they don't know you, but not illegal.

[beatledog7]

OK, I'm thoroughly persuaded I need a carry cane. Getting close to placing an order:

Cane Masters Boomer--which wood would guy guys select? Leaning toward hickory with heartwood, love the variations in the grain.

[hso]

You may want to get a hickory livestock cane and mod it if you want to save $40 to get into carrying a cane.

[Naybor]

I recommend hickory.
Check out hickory livestock canes at Tractor's Supply or other farm store. $12 - $15.

Tough!!!!!! Cut to fit. (Measure from your wristwatch to the ground. Add an inch. Cut ~ replace tip.)

Edit: Sorry, HSO, didn't notice your post.

[Owen Sparks]

As far as I know, canes are legal everywhere even if you do not have a disability.

[Madcap_Magician]

Caveat when flying: TSA gets a lot of leeway, and even if you are legally right, the fight may not be worth it.

[hso]

Madcap Magician,

We've discussed TSA and canes several times and all of us that carry a cane through airports and TSA checkpoints that have bothered to recount the experiences have uniformly reported no problem. None. Nada. Zilch.

As long as you're carrying a simple cane without any goofy gun/knife/spike/shock modifications you're not going to have any problem getting through TSA. Heck, they don't even raise an eyebrow about my ultimate umbrella and it has gone through a dozen trips without a hitch and I bet your's will too.

[Madcap_Magician]

I sure hope so, Hso. I know the cane is on unimpeachable legal grounds, and that even if I was pressed about it, I could come up with a dozen perfectly good reasons why I needed a cane, but I've seen too many videos of TSA screeners doing outrageous things that are illegal or against policy to want to do anything at all that raises any more questions.

I figured the Ultimate Umbrella would fly through without a hitch, but I always wondered if part of the reason was because everybody uses an umbrella at some point, and the Ultimate Umbrella does not appear any different at all from any other golf umbrella.

Whereas a Cane Masters or other martial arts cane has visible differences in appearance from the more typical assistive device.

I guess what I mean to say is that if you threw my Ultimate Umbrella into a pile of the umbrellas from everyone standing in the security checkpoint line with me, it wouldn't stick out at all.

But if you threw a Cane Masters cane (even the relatively plain ones, much less the goofy ones with serrations and sharpened points) into a pile of all the canes in use by the people in line with me, it wouldn't be too hard to play "One of these things is not like the others..."

[michaelbsc]

Caveat when flying: TSA gets a lot of leeway, and even if you are legally right, the fight may not be worth it.

I'm old enough to limp.

[Ogreon]

I sure hope so, Hso. I know the cane is on unimpeachable legal grounds, and that even if I was pressed about it, I could come up with a dozen perfectly good reasons why I needed a cane, but I've seen too many videos of TSA screeners doing outrageous things that are illegal or against policy to want to do anything at all that raises any more questions.


They can take my fingernail clippers or my toothpick and tell me to trundle on. If they take my cane, I am going nowhere.

[Deltaboy]

The TSA will be sued sooner or later by someone !

[bikerdoc]

I think a class action might be the way to go.

[Owen Sparks]

You do not have to have a good reason or prescription to carry a cane in the US. Besides, they are legal everywhere. You do not need a reason, even if you are young, even if you are in good shape.

[hso]

The TSA will be sued sooner or later by someone !

Unless they were generally acting like ADA didn't exist they're not going to be subject to a lawsuit. I fly a lot and they have a cane at the arch for you to use and I've seen them help people through so you're not going to get anything to stick in that regard.

[Deltaboy]

Good to know because I have not flown since rigth before 911 and don't plan on it because of the stupid rules Bush allowed them to pass.

[Naybor]

Found a picture of a few types of canes:

http://www.walkingcanedepot.com/p_image/NoveltyCanes.jpg

My cane is the type on the far right.

[Ogreon]

Unless they were generally acting like ADA didn't exist they're not going to be subject to a lawsuit. I fly a lot and they have a cane at the arch for you to use and I've seen them help people through so you're not going to get anything to stick in that regard.

Yeah, I've seen a number of stories complaining about TSA, but never....
"Paraplegic tossed from wheelchair"; "Cripple forced to crawl to airplane".

[Madcap_Magician]

Yeah, turns out it was not a big deal. I took both my Canemasters and my Unbreakable Umbrella through, and the only thing TSA said was to please put them on the x-ray conveyer separately, and did I need help walking through the scanner without my cane? Good deal. I was quite pleased with their professionalism on this round.

[Deltaboy]

Good to hear.

[beatledog7]

I ordered my Cane Masters cane and expect it to arrive in a few days.

As I said when I started the thread, I don't require a cane on a regular basis. I will have one with me much of the time, though, once I have mine and practice with it. It should not have taken me so long to conclude that carrying cane is a reasonable alternative to other less universally welcome defensive measures.

[saltydog452]

My bride and I have military brats scattered about and we travel out of country and have visited Mickey and Minnie in the Magic Kingdom twice..with Grand-Kids and lots of Asprin later.

I have a 'script from our Primary Care Doc that says, more or less, that walking assistance is occasionaly needful. That is paper clipped to our passports. As yet, it hasn't been needed.

We do get to board planes a bit earlier and don't have to squabble with fellow passengers who hog the overhead carry-on bins.

Functional crooks and bends on the end of the stick seem, to me, have more utility value than lumpy knobs.

salty

[beatledog7]

I agree, Salty. That hook is a major effect-maker and a large part of the reason I decided to carry a cane.

[dprice3844444]

cold steel makes some nice blackthorn http://www.coldsteel.com/irishblackthorn.html

[hso]

No, they make nice plastic that looks like blackthorn. Real blackthorn doesn't make an ideal defensive cane because of the surface being hard on the hands.

[Deltaboy]

I have well pleased with my ColdSteel Blackthorn cane it great for bad weather.

[tomrkba]

Just say "NO!" to canes. They look silly as an accessory for someone who does not need it.

[beatledog7]

In that case, I guess I need it.

[Rexster]

When you started this thread, the title applied to me. My knee had occasionally gotten a bit tricky, but aside from needing crutches for six weeks while in a cast, unrelated to the knee, support had always been optional. Lately, however, a foot issue has made made standing painful, and the knee is acting up more than usual. If I am going to be one my feet very long, now, I will bring a cane or stick with me.

As I am an actual photographer, both at work and as an avocation, I have been looking at monopods. (I already have tripods.) An extended aluminum monopod might not have the density desired in a fighting stick, but collapsed, the density increases. Another option I am considering is a Crawford Survival Staff, with the optional double-ended threaded attachment that adapts it to to a tripod/monopod head. I have not yet, however, looked into the acceptability of monopods on/in carry-on baggage.

[BullfrogKen]

Just say "NO!" to canes. They look silly as an accessory for someone who does not need it.


Nonsense.

Canes are not only for the old, sick, injured and infirm. For a very long time they were a fashion accessory for the well-dressed, just like a vest and tie. In fact, when I walk down main street Harrisburg wearing a vest, tie, and sporting a cane the last thing anyone thinks is "is he carrying a weapon?"

Appearance matters.

And the simple fact is I've used my appearance - coupled with gentlemenly tact - to divert a lot of attention from someone wondering if I've got a weapon to thinking, "My he's well dressed. He looks like a fine gentleman."

And I've heard that comment made over, and over, and over again. "My, he looks like a fine gentlemen."


This is my opinion, and my opinion alone . . . .

The thing a lot of gun-owners need to get over is looking like "tough guys", with your identity wrapped around looking like tough guys.


Over a decade ago I made a concerted effort to look like a gentlemen. Poo-poo it if you will, but the last thing anyone thinks of me when they look at me is - "that guy looks like he is the type of guy who has a weapon on him." And it wasn't just among the general public. I pull it off with the people I interact and work with on a daily basis, every day.


I have quite literally walked into secured areas complete with metal detectors with what I'd call a weapon . . . and the most I got as far as a challenge from the security detail working the detector when asked, "do you need that cane to walk?" was "do you need assistance walking through the arch?"


Now . . . I did not lie when I answered the question . . . but as a former Infantry Marine I've had my fair share of foot, knee and ankle injuries. After reciting the many routine injuries I'd ever experienced in my relatively young life that ever went wrong with my body . . . they finally stopped me and asked, "can you walk without assistance through the detector?" . . .

And I'd suggest that as a lifelong, or possibly even a competitive runner, that you've experienced injuries yourself. Right?


Again I'll ask . . . who are these people who you're worried about explaining to why you walk around with a cane? Co-workers? Friends? Who?

[Deltaboy]

Yep I like to look like the Minister I have been called to be. A cane is my aid in walking.

[Naybor]

Rexter,
I got a monopod from Wally World to help steady my camera while sitting in stadium seats or a folding chair at a wedding. And at times it does replace my cane as a walking stick. The cane resides in the console area of the car and the monopod in the trunk. I agree it would probably not make a good defensive stick.

[Nushif]

In fact, when I walk down main street Harrisburg wearing a vest, tie, and sporting a cane the last thing anyone thinks is "is he carrying a weapon?"

That's the sticking point though. Stuff like that simply doesn't work that way in outdoorsy Oregon, urban chique NYC, or hoodie Pittsburg. It's the same with the t-shirt, cargo short and hiking boot combo in main street Harrisburg.

So around here? Cane means either you're elderly or you're carrying a weapon.

[Saakee]

When I see someone in salem carrying a cane, I don't think weapon*. I think they may need help walking properly on occasion no matter there age, maybe because I know a number of high school/college athletes who keep them around for when they're injured. If I see a fannypack? That's a concealed weapon. A poorly concealed weapon.

*Unless it's making a jangling noise and has some idiotic chrome/silver head on it, then I automatically think "canesword, great, please don't let me have to deal with this shiz."

[Deltaboy]

I carry them because I want to make cool ones !

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hogman84/DSCN5778.jpg

[hso]

Cane means either you're elderly or you're carrying a weapon.

There's also "needs some assistance due to injury", but in "REI chic" a similar item like a monopod or hiking pole would fit in.

While the ideal defensive stick will withstand thousands of hours in a dojo, there's no reason to just limit ourselves to the ideal when adequate for one use will do. If I'm not where I can carry a martial arts weapon passing for a common item that doesn't mean I can't pick something that will serve for a defensive tool just long enough to save my pudgy pink hide.

We are the weapon. What we pick up to use is just a tool. Think about what serves under the conditions at hand and that helps you pick what you carry.

[michaelbsc]

....While the ideal defensive stick will withstand thousands of hours in a dojo, there's no reason to just limit ourselves to the ideal when adequate for one use will do. If I'm not where I can carry a martial arts weapon passing for a common item that doesn't mean I can't pick something that will serve for a defensive tool just long enough to save my pudgy pink hide.

We are the weapon. What we pick up to use is just a tool. Think about what serves under the conditions at hand and that helps you pick what you carry.

http://www.stickman-escrima.com/Products/Flutes.htm

I posted a link to these in another thread some months back.

The operative statement is "We are the weapon."

Not that I'm a particularly effective one, mind you. But situational awareness and preparedness is more than half the task.

[bikerdoc]

Not that I'm a particularly effective one, mind you. But situational awareness and preparedness is more than half the task.


Very insightful sir, on 2 levels, one you recognise the need for more training, and two you are aware of what is around you. Kudos.

We are the weapon. What we pick up to use is just a tool.

Oh so true. I recently found myself in an unwanted "conversation" from witch I could not disengage. Didnt warrent default to gun but I spied a lenth of broken pallet (tool). Luckily I talked/screamed my way out ( mindset) but that piece of broken wood fit my skill set perfectly.

[beatledog7]

Got the cane, gonna spend some time using it around the house with different shoes. I'm pretty convinced it's about a half inch long, but hate to make it too short for riding (horseback) boots/ Guess it'll just have to be a bit long for street shoes, but to me that beats too short.

Anyone ever try using a rubber tip with a long shank, one you could slip off and insert a 1/2" or so spacer (for example, the piece I'd cut off) to use with taller shoes? Where could one find such a tip?

[bikerdoc]

Anyone ever try using a rubber tip with a long shank, one you could slip off and insert a 1/2" or so spacer (for example, the piece I'd cut off) to use with taller shoes? Where could one find such a tip?
__________________


Any Wallgreens near us has replacement cane tips and I have used an inset to adjust height. Good luck. PM me for more info if needed.

[hso]

Considering how inexpensive a hickory livestock can is I'd just get a second cane to cut to have 2 lengths.

[beatledog7]

I get that the farm canes are inexpensive, but unless one has the tools to properly groove a livestock cane and then apply finish steps, it's not an attractive option.

I can see drilling a 1-1/2" channel into the end, trimming off 1/2" to 3/4", then running a 1-1/2" wood screw through the end piece. That way, when I need the extra length, all I have to do is pull the tip, screw on the end piece, and replace the tip. In theory I could even countersink the cane for a nut and use a machine screw arrangement, but I think that'd be overkill.

[hso]

I've done that in the past when I cut a rustic one off too short.

[Mp7]

"It´s from a recent sex injury ... would u like me to go into detail?"

:D

[Owen Sparks]

A disability does not have to be perminant to qualify for protection under the ADA. If you watch enough college football you will see disabled people standing on the sidelines late in the season. I was disabled for a few days last spring due to a sprained ankle. I was on crutches for two days and had to use a cane for three more. It still bothres me if I walk too much though it is slowly getting bettter. According to the law I am disabled.

[hso]

According to the law I am disabled.

The ADA specifically says that temporary disabilities are generally excluded. Recovery from sprains and broken bones are specifically cited as not covered in ADA guidance unless the limitation takes 6 months or more and then the decision to classify the impairment is not automatic and is decided on a case by case basis. You should stop making definitive statements about the ADA other than it may provide some benefit in making authorities uncomfortable about challenging the use of an assistive walking device like a cane.

[Owen Sparks]

It has been over six months since my injury (March) and the ankle is still limiting my mobility. I stepped off a curb and tweaked it a few weeks back and it swelled and bothered me for several days. There are some activities such as hiking that I just can not do until this thing gets well.

[Jorg]

It has been over six months since my injury (March) and the ankle is still limiting my mobility. I stepped off a curb and tweaked it a few weeks back and it swelled and bothered me for several days. There are some activities such as hiking that I just can not do until this thing gets well.
Sorry to hear that, but that still doesn't make you physically disabled under the ADA.

Sec. 12102. Definition of disability

As used in this chapter:

(1) Disability

The term "disability" means, with respect to an individual

(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual;

(B) a record of such an impairment; or

(C) being regarded as having such an impairment (as described in paragraph (3)).

(2) Major Life Activities

(A) In general

For purposes of paragraph (1), major life activities include, but are not limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working.

(B) Major bodily functions

For purposes of paragraph (1), a major life activity also includes the operation of a major bodily function, including but not limited to, functions of the immune system, normal cell growth, digestive, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, endocrine, and reproductive functions.

(3) Regarded as having such an impairment

For purposes of paragraph (1)(C):

(A) An individual meets the requirement of “being regarded as having such an impairment” if the individual establishes that he or she has been subjected to an action prohibited under this chapter because of an actual or perceived physical or mental impairment whether or not the impairment limits or is perceived to limit a major life activity.

(B) Paragraph (1)(C) shall not apply to impairments that are transitory and minor. A transitory impairment is an impairment with an actual or expected duration of 6 months or less.


Not being able to hike because you twisted your ankle certainly doesn't qualify as substantially limiting a major life activity, even if it has been over six months.

[Owen Sparks]

The kicker is that medical information is confidential.

[bikerdoc]

Owen,
That reinforces what HSO said about the ADA in post 71, about using it to make questioning authorities uncomfortable, even if you dont qualify.

[Kleanbore]

Posted by BullfrogKen: This is my opinion, and my opinion alone . . . .

The thing a lot of gun-owners need to get over is looking like "tough guys", with your identity wrapped around looking like tough guys. Ken, I share that opinion.

[beatledog7]

So do I. A major part of being a responsible CCWer is NOT looking like one. The macho tough guy aspect of gun ownership is NOT a plus for our cause.

The cane doesn't make me look like I have no ability to look after myself; it just makes me look like I have the ability to acknowledge that I have some kind of need for assistance in walking/standing. That doesn't make me look weak--it makes me look rational.

[hso]

The "kicker" is that you can "claim" anything to make someone "cooperate", but you can't claim that temporary disability due to an injury legally meets the definition under the law. You can't tell people something is the law when you don't know and you certainly can't do it when your wrong.

The disability due to an injury that is temporary doesn't count under ADA typically takes under 6 months to substantially recover from.