9mm load, getting the willies here,

I am trying to do a non-controversial load for 9mm 115 gr, berry's plated rn bullets, and the data is sketchy. What I have decided to run is 5.4 grains of Unique, starting with 1.16 OAL, and working down from there.

BUT, when I start loading cases with 5.4 of Unique, the powder is less then 1/8" from the case mouth, and I'm pretty sure I will be significantly crunching the powder together when I load the bullet. Is this ok?

STOP you dont start with a load and work down you start with a reduced amount and work up, do some searches and you will come up with a bunch of loads using Berry Bullets.

That WAS what I came up with after searching. Where should I look?

I'm backing it off to 5.0. I'll look back here before I try to shoot any of it. :)

Plated bullets load with cast bullet data.

Start there with the Lyman book being of especial value...and it wouldn't hurt you to read the the thing page for page up to the reloading data.

Plated bullets load with cast bullet data.Except Berry plated bullets don't, according to Berry.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

For what it's woth, I load Berry 115 grain RN with 5.5 Unique, seated 1.120", as a standard load for three different guns.

124 grain RN Berrys get 5.0 grains.

rc

Except Berry plated bullets don't, according to Berry.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

For what it's woth, I load Berry 115 grain RN with 5.5 Unique, seated 1.120", as a standard load for three different guns.

124 grain RN Berrys get 5.0 grains.

rc

From your link

We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.

You do not have to limit yourself to lead data with plated bullets. The low end data can stick a plated bullet if you are not careful.

Some data.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6195350&postcount=11

when I start loading cases with 5.4 of Unique, the powder is less then 1/8" from the case mouth, and I'm pretty sure I will be significantly crunching the powder together when I load the bullet. Is this ok?
Yes, many 9MM loads fill the case very well and are slightly compressed.

I would suggest starting with 5.0 Grs of Unique and an OAL of 1.135 for those bullets. Work up to 5.4.

Alliant publishes a max of 6.3 gr with a 115 gr Gold Dot. They also recommend reducing this by 10% as a starting load.

Slow burning powders that occupy a lot of case will often have starting charges that look questionable. This is not somthing to be concerned about. I laod with a lot of Longshot in 40 S&W and 9mm and that powder even at the minimum charge will appear to be a hot charge visually. But because it is a slow burner, it will produce high end performance and can't be down loaded by very much.

As for plated bullet data, it falls some where between jacketed and cast data.

GS

mljdeckard , I see you also reload 45ACp and for rifle.

9mm is more critical than 45 ACP due the small case and the pressures it runs at, which you likely already know.
I suspect when you said "and working down from there", you may have been referring to OAL. 1.160 is really loooong for 115gr 9mm.

Stay with published/reliable load data--oal and load-- until you get comfortable with 9mm.
Walkalong and rcmodel and others give good advice.
When starting at the lower end of the data, always use a target and "SEE" the hole before you take the 'second' shot to prevent a squib from ruining your day.;)

Let us know how your load works out.

I'm using 5.7 grains of Unique behind a 115 grain Xtreme plated bullet and it shoots great. I just ordered another thousand 124 grain Berry's bullets and I'm planning on using 5.3 grains with those.

I've also got some Universal to try out, probably go with 4.6 grains behind the 124.

That is my exact range load. 115 gn. Berry's bullet. 5.4 gn. Unique. I just checked my oal and it is l.150. They work for me.

I know it's a bit long, but they passed the plunk test. 5.0, I'll try them and see what happens.

Regardless of what the load parameters are (lead data or low jacketed data), start with starting loads and work up. Determine an OAL and stick with it (I used a similar shape/weight jacketed bullet as an example to determine OAL). After you get comfortable shooting a specific load, then you can "experiment"...

I'm backing it off to 5.0. I'll look back here before I try to shoot any of it.

Good man, A lot of good info here. I've been using berry's plated bullets since I started loading 9mm.

I saw where RC Model is loading 5.5 gr of Unique with berry's plated bullets and I must confess that I have been loading to the upper end of max loads with them also and so far haven't had any problems either.

I also put 6.5 gr of power pistol (6.8 gr is max) in my .357mags and have had really good success with it with Berry's regular plated bullets. Very accurate. I started out with 6.3 gr and went up.

If I screw up one of my pistols, it's on me, not Berry's. Same with you. Understand that.

This is above what Berry's says should be max load, but they are doing something right because they are accurate at that speed and I have not had any trouble with the plating coming off in my barrel.

I shouldn't be telling you this but but I think Berry's plated bullets are tougher than Berry's says they are.

Others above this post have already indicated this and I agree.

But BE CAREFUL! Work it up slowly and watch for copper balls sticking in your barrel, that's a good indication that your load is to hot for the plating.

I went up to 4.5 grs of Titegroup in my 9mm and started seeing copper balls fused to the inside of my barrel so I backed it off to 4.2 gr and they went away.
They came right out when I cleaned the barrel but it was a good wake up call.

When you see this, the plating is starting to liquify and that is bad news.
I've still load titegroup in my 9mm but have since taken it down to 4.0 gr and now use a slower burning powder for the hotter loads.

Unique is 31 on Hodgens burn rate chart and Titegroup is 14. This means Unique is alot cooler burning then titegroup. With Unique I Don't see where you should have this problem.

But start midrange and work up with caution. All guns are different to how they re-act to what.

Just thought I would jump in and have my say. It probably repeats what others have said.
Thin plated bullets are to be reloaded like lead bullets and MAY, if worked up carefully, be loaded up to mid-range jacketed data provided velocity does not exceed 1200fps.
My data shows that 4.3gn is a starting load and 5.3-5.7gn is max for cast lead bullets. The mid-range data I have for 115gn jacketed bullets would be 5.5gn, so the lead max puts you right at the max that Berrys and Rainier would recognize, so don't try to load to max jacketed data.
I, personally, have never been happy with any Berrys or Rainier or X-treme bullet and only shoot lead or jacketed. You can get GREAT jacketed bullets from Montana Gold, in bulk, for the same as plated.
A compressed load is not a problem, per se, but using bad data is a problem. Flakes powders like Unique have no problem with compressed loads. In the 9x19, a compressed load might actually help to prevent bullet set-back.
Get some manuals, contact the bullet/powder manufacturer for information, and start low.
I have no idea why any one wants to shorten COL unless there are feeding problems.

In my limited experience plated bullet usually provide about 10% lower velocity than lead bullets of the same weight with the same powder charge. Unique would not be my favorite powder for plated bullets - it meters rather poorly in mypowder measure.
The VihtaVouri manual lists loads for Rainier plated bullets and I beleive you can download that information from the company's website. I have used VV N-320, VV N-330, Bullseye and WSF with plated bullets. I start low and work up my loads with a chronograph.

a compressed load might actually help to prevent bullet set-back.
Hmmmmm ... proper neck tension from resized case neck should prevent bullet set back. I certainly would not depend on powder compression to prevent bullet set back. :eek:

Relying on powder compression to prevent bullet setback is extremely poor technique.

Hey, at least you won't have to worry about accidently double charging one.

bds and 918v:
What was the error in my statement?
Sorry, can't you read. I didn't suggest relying on compressed powder to prevent bullet set back. I simply said it MIGHT help to prevent it.
If you check each round, you are good, but compressed powder might still prevent bullet set-back.

With all due respect, IMHO, good reloading practice should result in sufficient neck tension to not allow bullet setback (which would seat the bullet base deeper and increase chamber pressure).

I do realize that with some larger flake powders (like Unique/Promo etc.), very slight compression of powder charge may not affect powder burn/chamber pressures. But for some new reloaders not carefully reading this thread using different powders at near max/max powder charges may get the wrong idea, perhaps not even intentionally due to variations of scale inaccuracy (not all reloaders start off with check weights to verify the accuracy of their powder charges).

One of my "Quality Control" steps, especially when working with small case loads like 9mm, is measuring the bullet base/height to determine the bullet seat depth and ensure I am not using any powder/charge that would compress the powder charge.

Be safe ... peace.

In order to compress a powder to the point it prevents bullet setback in the 9, you would have to use alot of AA#9, a powder way too slow for the application. Any other powder, if used at a save charge weight, will compress further if neck tension is insufficient.

bds and 918v:
What was the error in my statement?
Sorry, can't you read. I didn't suggest relying on compressed powder to prevent bullet set back. I simply said it MIGHT help to prevent it.
If you check each round, you are good, but compressed powder might still prevent bullet set-back.
Might not have been wrong, but statement about compressed loads may stop bullet setback is misleading...

For the 115gr 9mm, it does not have data for Unique. However, it has data for several Vihta Vuori powders and for Accurate #2, #5, and #7.

There is no VV data for jacketed 115gr bullets, but for Accurate #5 and #7, the MAXIMUM loads for the plated are lower than the STARTING load for the jacketed. With #2, the loads are 0.1 gr less for plated, but the muzzle velocities are a little higher.