Mountain Lion ate the pigs!

I complained in another thread about the lack of pigs lately in South Texas. My complaint was directed towards the lack of target opportunities when out on purposeful hunts. My LGS/range used to have some pigs that were not pinned and thought they owned the range. I mentioned to the range owner that I had not seen any pigs lately and he said a Puma got them!!

You gotta be kidding me!!

The cat has actually been seen while traveling down his 2 mile dirt road drive way to the range.

I came back and did a Goggle search and sure enough their territory includes S. TX.

I grew up hunting around the Dallas FT. Worth area and never once thought of seeing one...According to the Google map it was not part of their territory so guess that answers that.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lHO5EVQ8T0AicRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1cm0yMDA4BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OF8xNTM-/SIG=130ic5bk8/EXP=1346786638/**http%3a//www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0232.pdf

Despite reports of mountain lion attacks on people in
California, mountain lion attacks are rare. Only four
attacks on humans in Texas have been reported since
1980, all of them in remote areas of West Texas.
From 1890–2001, there were 98 attacks across the
U.S. and Canada, 17 of those were fatal. Cougar
attacks have increased during the past few decades
but are still much rarer than other hazards from
animals or nature. For example, dogs annually kill
18–20 people and inflict suturerequiring
injuries on
200,000 U.S. residents. Increases in cougar attacks are
probably due to increases in their numbers and more
people using wildlands and building residences in areas
where mountain lions live.



http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7inr4kVQPkQA1W9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB2NG9sYXRhBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OF8xNTM-/SIG=14alooke2/EXP=1346786155/**http%3a//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images%3f_adv_prop=image%26fr=yfp-t-701-s%26va=mountain%2blion%2bterritory%2bmap

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7inr4kVQPkQA2m9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1MGptYmRmBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OF8xNTM-/SIG=12ofsnk2h/EXP=1346786155/**http%3a//animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/mountain-lion/

This powerful predator roams the Americas, where it is also known as a puma, cougar, and catamount. This big cat of many names is also found in many habitats, from Florida swamps to Canadian forests.

Mountain lions like to prey on deer, though they also eat smaller animals such as coyotes, porcupines, and raccoons. They usually hunt at night or during the gloaming hours of dawn and dusk.


Well that took care of some of the feral pigs we used to have; amazing how quickly the pigs decided to move to safer habitats.

Mountain lions are bad news.

A few years back, local emu grower lost six of his birds to a mountain lion in one episode. Game and fish opined it was a juvenile cat with self-control issues; it was almost like he was killing just to kill. I don't know whether the cat was ever hunted down.

The post about more people being killed by dogs is totally irrelevant. There are millions of dogs in North America and only thousands of mountain lions. Per capita data would show that mountain lions really are much more dangerous than dogs if you're in their territory.

We have warning signs for Mountain Lions in San Antonio city parks.

They've been spotted in MN - unofficially, lol. According to MN DNR - "they are not found in MN" and do not exist.

Tell that to the guy out here that hit one with his car and brought the carcass to the local DNR office. Rumor has it that he commented "nothing to see here, move along" to the wildlife officer that examined it.

I've seenone in Spicer mn, we have them here in central TX also

A Deer Hunter killed one in central Iowa 2 yrs ago...

They've been spotted in MN - unofficially, lol. According to MN DNR - "they are not found in MN" and do not exist

Yea, they told us that in western Pa also but in the Clarion-Jefferson County area, they have been seen several times including by myself.

Once these Cougers wine and dine on all those pigs you have in Texas, I'll bet it will increase their population and the ranchers there will really have problems when the pigs leave.

At least Coyotes only kill what they need to eat, Cougers have been said for years to kill for the hell of it.

All up in the Medina and Guadalupe River valleys. Beautiful animals, off in the brushline at dusk. Never want to see one any closer. At night they come around the house looking for chickens and household pets. Once when the ground was soft, one left prints I could follow around my place to see what interested him... chicken coop, garbage barrels, and my car- circled it twice, dunno why... never came within 15 yds of the house, though.

Do not discount the danger a cougar poses to humans. Several years ago i was tracking a wounded hog in a wash in south central OK when something caught my eye on the right. On the bank less than 25 yards away sat a big male cougar switching his tail. Shot him square in the chest with my .50 muzzleloader.

Cougars are cats, and all cat's play - I bet they do kill for sheer sport.

I came back and did a Goggle search and sure enough their territory includes S. TX.

I grew up hunting around the Dallas FT. Worth area and never once thought of seeing one...According to the Google map it was not part of their territory so guess that answers that.

The "Goggle" search (Goggle would have been a better name for it) is interesting as per the links, but the interpretation is wrong. What is part of mountain lion territory isn't just where they have been found dead since 1983 (first link). Various maps show actual ranges (not to be confused with territories) and mountain lions historically have been found across the the lower 48 states. We are all within their historic range and just because they have been extirpated from their historic range doesn't mean they won't repopulation...and they do. Ranges are commonly defined by geographic features, habitat, and competition/conflict. There are no geographic features in the lower 48 stopping the movement of the cats. They can make a living is virtually every type of habitat. The only real limiting factor is competition/conflict. They certainly don't have much direct competition, but do have considerable human conflict.

There used to be a nice little museum (early 1970s) on NW Highway in the bottoms of the White Rock Lake Park complex in Dallas. The museum housed information for the park as well as a collection of animals taken in the immediate vicinity which included a black bear, alligator, and a mountain lion.

John Thompson Lively (1876-1968) was reported to have taken the last mountain lion in Dallas County near present day Love Field.

And there is a reason why Ft. Worth police badges still bear a panther on them...
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/08/04/4154837/attacks-are-rare-but-humans-should.html

If the range guy thinks the mountain lion got his hogs, that is fine. The important thing is that the hogs are gone.

Yea, they told us that in western Pa also but in the Clarion-Jefferson County area, they have been seen several times including by myself.

Once these Cougers wine and dine on all those pigs you have in Texas, I'll bet it will increase their population and the ranchers there will really have problems when the pigs leave.

At least Coyotes only kill what they need to eat, Cougers have been said for years to kill for the hell of it.
There's a very good reason for discounting the existence of any threatened species by game departments. ("Threatened" is what the classification would be if they showed up in a place that was previously a part of their historical range.) IF the animal is confirmed that opens up a whole hornet's nest of regulations and DEP concerns that causes steps to be taken to protect the animal's population. This would probably include restrictions on hunters as to killing deer in the area, disturbing potential home ranges, etc. In Wisc. they banned all coyote hunting north of Hwy. 70 to protect the wolves. In Fla. they have made an area of SW Florida off limits to hunting deer to protect the Florida panthers' food supply.

It's better to just look the other way than to involve the protectionists and the feds.

The droughts of the last couple years took most of the pigs away from my area.. Not lions, etc..

Course a farmer about 35 miles from me spotted a hog last night so they might be comming back...

At one point the range had approx 20 piggies if you count 2 litters in various stages of growth. There are no pigs in the A.O. as of this writing or they are wearing camo and have learned to fly (no tracks).

I think back to all of the stuff I did as a kid and never came across a track or saw one. Glad I always had my dog Junior (part Lab and part Sheppard) that would stand down a Bull if the need arose. Miss him and his loyalty. Hahaha if a cat went after him we would have both ended up as cat poo unless my single shot 16 gage was with me..... then we would have probably ended up as pissed off cat poo!

We have property just outside Big Bend NP. Neighbors have had issues with Mountain Lions after their chickens. We've seen paw prints in the dirt road thru our property too. Lots of them in the mountains in the park, even had a human attacked earlier this year during the drought. Why I always have a gun on me on our property.

Robert

I have seen them in the wilderness in parts of California on several occassions when I was a kid.
Not as an adult. I may have looked tastier as a kid and they didn't hide as much?


They are certainly dangerous, but generally avoid humans. Ones with tracking collars have been found to be in suburbs and in bushes in and around people without the local residents even seeing it.


It is actually a demonstration that without human involvement nature might fix certain problems, like the introduction of invasive swine that overpopulate and destroy a lot of habitat.

However since mountain lions require a lot of territory they tend to be few in number. I have to imagine in a place like Texas there is tons of rednecks just dying to prove how tough they are by killing any mountain lion they can find.
I mean killing a big predator is going to make for a more impressive story to tell the drinking buddies than just another hog does.
Well the pigs might overbreed but the lions won't have the numbers to deal with that pressure, especially how they are typically hunted (chased down by dogs, treed, and then shot as a stationary close range target, not really taking any skill, the dogs do all the work.)
So while I don't think they would become a problem, I also don't think they will last long enough to resolve any pig problems. Consider it a temporary situation. If people learn there is enough lions to try and hunt them in a given area, they won't last long.

(That said lions can be trouble too. There used to be farmers that would go the legal route and get a permit to kill them here in California when they would start killing their livestock. They are protected and require such a permit. Well many of the farmers would then have environmentalists threatening to sue them if anything happened that that momma lion just teaching her cubs how to hunt. Faced with being sued by people that would result in legal expenses that could easily result in loss of their farm and livelihood, and cougars that would continue to kill their livestock after learning how easy they were to catch and kill unless dealt with, most have just gone back to the shoot, shovel, and shut up solution when it is needed. It is not legal but it tends to work out better.)

I have a friend (Mike) that has one on the floor of his den. It attacked him but his dog went after the Cougar and distracted it long enough for Mike to get in a fatal shot on the cat. Sadly Mike's dog died from the fight. I have another friend that has this in his living room from a hunt two years ago. His 4 year old niece is standing next to it for size comparison.
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/IMG_0626.jpg

I've had them in my back yard here in Idaho, and I've seen them while out hiking just west of Hamilton, Montana.
My wife & I never go out into the woods hiking without a magnum side arm on our hip.

regards,
Gearchecker

anothernewb -

They've been spotted in MN - unofficially, lol. According to MN DNR - "they are not found in MN" and do not exist.


boy, if that doesn't sum up our state DNR perfectly. :rolleyes:

Arizona has plenty of them. Unlimited tags in Arizona and 1 cat a year. No draw, over the counter purchase for $14

There have been several times we've walked up on an old lion kill. One time the elk was still steaming. Talk about uncomfortable......that cat wasn't far away and we most likely ran him off of the kill. We left rather fast.

Everytime I see the title to this thread I chuckle.. remembering "the Dingo ate your baby".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghCTZF61ey0&feature=player_detailpage

Our quota for this years cats is 100 with a sub quota of 70 females. Several of the collared ones have been found all across the country including Canada, Chicago, Minn, Wisc, Conn. Had one two miles north of me that cllimbed up a powerline pole and got zapped and another was around that raked the rump of a colt that belonged to my neighbor. Had a situation here two years ago where the GF&P darted a elk to collar it. While the elk was slowing down from the dart and the helio had not landed, a cat came out of the shrubs and nailed the elk. Many have been dispatched as nuisance cats in urban areas. They have taken a toll on deer and elk numbers as well.

Got to have eyes in the back of your head for these kittys.

No mountain lions in Connecticut either, none, not even the one that was spotted all over Greenwich, one of the richest towns in the country, until the ONLY one that lives in Connecticut was killed by a car. All of the other reports from places a mountain lion is more likely to live in CT, places that ARE sparsely developed, are fake mountain lions, or house cats, bears, skunks, dogs, etc. The ONLY mountain lion to come to Connecticut in 100 years found its way to the least likely place to live. We do have lots of deer here, and lots of people. Maybe this lion liked to eat deer and liked to be watched by people? ;)

They've been spotted in MN - unofficially, lol. According to MN DNR - "they are not found in MN" and do not exist.

boy, if that doesn't sum up our state DNR perfectly.

Only it doesn't since they do not state that they are not in the state. The information provided by anothernewb is in erro. Mountain lions are on the website. What is stated is that there is not a known breeding popution, but that there are sufficient resources for them in the state.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mammals/index.html
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/rsg/profile.html?action=elementDetail&selectedElement=AMAJH04010
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/education_safety/education/kids_pages/certificate_of_discovery.pdf

Mountain lions are bad news.

For some things. I wish a cat would move into my area and run off packs of coyotes. At least they're quiet and avoid people. The danged pasture poodles yip and holler all night, are a threat to smaller pets and farm animals, and have even attacked children on a few occasions recently.

17 mountain lion deaths over a century in two nations comprising almost an entire continent tells us they're a non-issue. In all my years hiking, hunting, camping and living in rural areas where they're known to be relatively abundant, I have seen exactly one puma, for about a second and a half.

I'm sure I'd be pretty scared if one jumped into the trail in front of me growling and hissing, but unless that happens, I don't fear them at all. Most attacks on adults have been surprise encounters for both, as cougars really want nothing to do with people (smart, since we pretty much kill anything and everything). I personally have zero interest in hunting them. I respect and admire the animal too much, and it doesn't appeal as a food source to me.

sometimes I wish this site had a "like" button...^^

Cougars are cats, and all cat's play - I bet they do kill for sheer sport.

Not a cougar, but a Canadian lynx. Just another example of how all cats are the same:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/WardenWolf_1982/LynxSleeping.jpg

Took this at a wildlife park in northern Arizona called Bearizona. The same behaviors that apply to your housecat apply to these larger cats. Just there's the lack of respect and fear due to size. You're basically a large rat to them by comparison. These people with tamed tigers and such are playing a dangerous game. Yes, the animal may love them. But while a normal cat may play-stalk you, swat you, or nip you, a big animal doing this may inadvertently kill you, even if they had no intention to actually harm you. All cats are the same. Just it's a matter of size and respect. And a mountain lion may consider you prey.

Just there's the lack of respect and fear due to size. You're basically a large rat to them by comparison.

Respect? LOL in the wild kingon at that level, such high/complex emotions are not known to exist. Humans are the only animal that thinks respect is supposed to be part of our interactive environment and that we somehow deserve it because we are humans.

I have seen a Big Bob cat ( much bigger than the two posted) at Kingwood Country club in Houston (Kingwood Tx.) while playing golf a few times. All the critters there are so used to humans that they pay little heed to the 2 legged golfing folks. The squirrels and crows would wait until you stopped your golf cart by a green to sneak in your cart and steal any snack you might have left....darn squirrel's would sometimes want to beg or fight ya for it displaying how well they grasp things in a rather serious tug of war.... Crows not so much as they were more into hit and run.

Double Naught Spy said:

Respect? LOL in the wild kingon at that level, such high/complex emotions are not known to exist. Humans are the only animal that thinks respect is supposed to be part of our interactive environment and that we somehow deserve it because we are humans.

I disagree, there may just be some discrepencies in what a different species and individual considers respectful that are lost in translation.

Take for example many large grizzlies.
People like Timothy Treadwell who know enough about the animal to sit on the border of disrespectful and tolerable have shown just how long it can take to get attacked. Spending months around these animals playing on that line.
While another person that comes stumbling along can upset the bear quite early on and get attacked much sooner, their ignorance requiring they almsot have to resort to a gun or spray right away.
Or similarly many photographers that give a respectful distance often are not attacked. While someone that does not show a level of submissive respect can get attacked.
It is not because they are out of reach that the bear leaves them alone, they could cover that ground in seconds. It is because the person shows a level of respect and calm, while also not triggering their prey drive (If you fall down or run away for example they may still suddenly decide to attack.)
People have worked with lions in the same way. Tempting fate, but through understanding typical animal reaction and behavior socializing with large wild male lions extensively over a period of time. The Timothy Treadwells of the lion world.

Some big powerful predators find it insulting when someone acts safe around them and don't even acknowledge the danger posed by the animal.
You see this in both semi domestic and wild lions for example.
It seems to often be interpreted as a type of disrepect, and provokes what to many people seems an unprovoked attack.

Likewise people have worked with wild Gorillas and found something similar with the dominant male.
If they acted like they were lower on the hierarchy after having been accepted in prxomity to the animals over a period of time violence was often avoided. While if the person acted dominant or showed an alpha level of overconfidence the actual alpha felt a need to violently challenge them through attack or intimidation.


There is always exceptions, and animals are also indivdiuals. But there is definately a respect issue with many.
Most people are just so used to the human perspective they don't percieve the differences in some animals.

I have seen domestic pets that would get angry and attack if someone laughed at them when they stumbled or hurt themselves. One person had a pet racoon that would act in that manner. Normally a calm pleasant animal, even around kids. It was a little clumsy though.
Yet if people started laughing at it then it would become angry and chase and bite the person making fun of it.
While that is a domesticated animal, imprinted with human social qualities, it goes to show wild animals could have similar traits.

So it doesn't mean you can socialize or interact like you would with a person, or that they are always predictable, but there is definately animals that think certain actions are tolerable, and some are disrespectful and require retaliation.
It doesn't make them right or their interpretation superior, but it does show they have an interpretation of things that are and are not disprectful and insulting.
Things that are respectful to humans may not matter to an animal, while things that don't matter to most humans certain species might routinely find disrespectful.
Someone that understands those things can often coexist with the animals, especially if they are not intentionally going to the extremes of what is tolerable most of the time.

Mountain lions are bad news.
Pigs are worse! That's why there's so much effort to eradicate (yeah, that'll work...) them.