Pistol Powder Blending?


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bmanowske@live.com
September 5, 2012, 09:49 AM
I have always heard of NEVER doing this!
An aquantance blew up his DE 50AE, after reloading with some sort of blend of powder! Said a friend of a friend, reloads .44 mag with it and works fine so he tried it! Bent and cracked the slide frame, and broke the gas piston, plus bent the recoil spring rods on both sides. My question, since I'm a bit new to reloading, am I wrong, and is this a stupid idea, or is this a practice of developing expermental loads?
One more thing, He claims Magnum Reserch can repair his gun without replacing the gun! What do ya'll think?

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NeuseRvrRat
September 5, 2012, 09:54 AM
i think darwin almost got him another one

MtnCreek
September 5, 2012, 10:16 AM
He claims Magnum Reserch can repair his gun without replacing the gun! What do ya'll think?
I think he needs to hang the RoboCop gun, as is, over his reloading bench as a reminder that he's an idiot.

bmanowske@live.com
September 5, 2012, 10:18 AM
Thats kinda what I was thinking!

mgmorden
September 5, 2012, 10:21 AM
Mixing powders is a no-no. Just don't do it. Seriously look at the list of currently available powders - what is it exactly that you're looking for that that absolutely massive list WON'T do, and you think a blended powder will?

jaguarxk120
September 5, 2012, 10:35 AM
Blended powder work's great!! Just take what's left over from some old cans, mix well ---- then throw the mix on the lawn.

Other wise loading into cartridges is for sure Darwin award area.

bmanowske@live.com
September 5, 2012, 10:40 AM
That is what I was taught! I reload my 500 S&W with 45 gn. H110 and wouldn't want more! I don't know what he was tring to achive, but never heard of blending. The factory rounds he would shoot threw the DE, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards let alone 100 yards that he claimes it was sighted in for! So why he needed more power is bewildering!!!

918v
September 5, 2012, 10:46 AM
Actually, you're wrong. The DE will shoot inside a 10" circle at 100 yards with factory ammo. DE are accurate handguns.

bmanowske@live.com
September 5, 2012, 10:54 AM
Actually, you're wrong. The DE will shoot inside a 10" circle at 100 yards with factory ammo. DE are accurate handguns.
I'm sure they are! I'm saying HE can't hit the broad side of a barn! Probably even with another barn!

Grumulkin
September 5, 2012, 11:45 AM
Actually, you're wrong. The DE will shoot inside a 10" circle at 100 yards with factory ammo. DE are accurate handguns.
Actually, I would consider inside a 10 inch circle at 100 yards pretty poor accuracy especially if done with a scoped handgun.

Clark
September 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
Unbelievable

MtnCreek
September 5, 2012, 01:37 PM
Unbelievable

If Clark wont do it, I sure as heck wont do it! :)

627PCFan
September 5, 2012, 01:59 PM
"An aquantance blew up"

Hmmmmmmmmm :D

cougar1717
September 5, 2012, 02:55 PM
Powder companies ensure that canister powder burns and creates the pressure that is safe at the charges published in the data they provide. Bullet manufacturers also use test barrels or firearms to develop published data for their specific bullets. Both use strain gauges to measure psi and pressure spikes. If any of us without proper equipment attempt to wildcat a special powder blend, we can expect to trash some firearms in the process.

ranger335v
September 5, 2012, 03:08 PM
It's interesting when some new guy gets the idea he knows more about powders than the makers and starts 'blending' his own special mix. What it usually does best is improve the gene pool.

jwrowland77
September 5, 2012, 03:13 PM
Drum roll....an the Darwin award goes to.....

Wow that's just plain stupid.

Arkansas Paul
September 5, 2012, 03:21 PM
An aquantance blew up his DE 50AE, after reloading with some sort of blend of powder!

Yep, that's about what I would expect to happen.


Do yourself a favor and don't EVER shoot any of that guy's handloads. Your guns will thank you. Also your hands and face.

mdi
September 5, 2012, 06:00 PM
I believe some experts have/were experimenting with duplex loads in 50 AE and/or 50 S&W, and some of this info leaked out resulting in self destruct idiot loads...

GLOOB
September 5, 2012, 06:56 PM
Nothing wrong with experimenting. As long as you own the results.

floydster
September 5, 2012, 07:15 PM
Whats the matter with you guys, no adventure in your bones:D

jwrowland77
September 5, 2012, 07:31 PM
Whats the matter with you guys, no adventure in your bones:D

I have plenty of adventure, but used up most of my nine lives in the military. :)

Plus I'd like to keep my hand bones right where they are at. LOL. :D

hentown
September 5, 2012, 08:42 PM
Actually, you're wrong. The DE will shoot inside a 10" circle at 100 yards with factory ammo. DE are accurate handguns.

My G29 will shoot inside a 10" circle at 100 yds! :eek:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/Walteridus/K20P9353.jpg

poco loco
September 5, 2012, 08:52 PM
big difference between a duplex load and blending different powders.....

Duplex, done right by a very experienced handloader can work in some cartridges but it is something I will not touch myself......and if it makes Clark cringe after some of his loads I have read here.....well.....(shudder).....

floydster
September 5, 2012, 08:56 PM
:DMy SIL is a 300 lb. gorilla, he is rock solid when he shoots his 50 DE, a 10" group at 100 yards would be disgusting for him, he is big and can really move, the DE is an amazing gun in the 50 cal., so all you wimps---back off!!!

Tim the student
September 5, 2012, 09:05 PM
If Clark wont do it, I sure as heck wont do it!

Made me laugh. Oh, +1.

4895
September 5, 2012, 09:42 PM
Like my former mentor told me, dip the case in the powder and squash a bullet in it! :what:

santanzchild
September 5, 2012, 11:04 PM
Like my former mentor told me, dip the case in the powder and squash a bullet in it! :what:

Crap so all those books I bought with my press where a waste!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727

ObsidianOne
September 6, 2012, 12:20 AM
I heard that back in the 70's or 80's they put out some magazine articles about blending powder and it just ended up blowing up guns and lawsuits.
Why someone would want to blend powders is beyond me.

weemsf
September 6, 2012, 12:31 AM
Local cop here a few years ago decided to get into reloading. Bought some Red Dot, all powders are the same aren't they, filled some 38 Special cases up to,the bottom of the bullet base. Load into the old trusty, Ruger Security Six, and touch off a round. Next thing, is note to self, buy new revolver, this one is broke....

And, yes, I know the guys who did it. Glad they both lived to tell the tale.

918v
September 6, 2012, 11:12 AM
Actually, I would consider inside a 10 inch circle at 100 yards pretty poor accuracy especially if done with a scoped handgun.

Show us a 100 yard group from a DE that is substantially better.

I'd like to meet the robot responsible for such an amazing feat.

Hondo 60
September 6, 2012, 12:11 PM
The blending of different powders is only for those with ALL of the PROPER testing equipment.
(like Winchester, Hornady, CCI, etc)

The average Joe reloader certainly does NOT have the equipment or the money.

I agree with others, anyone who does this is a candidate for the Darwin award.

ohwell
September 6, 2012, 02:23 PM
Unbelievable

wulf415
September 6, 2012, 05:38 PM
FWIW, I've known 3 reloaders who tried blending powders. all 3 ended up in the emergency room.

first: mix of black and smokeless 'magnum loads' 12 ga. twist steel barrel. :eek:

second: Enfield .303, powder from 20mm rounds mixed with Bullseye and ground in flour mill to fine dust, unweighed, compressed loads. :what:

third: 20 gauge, powder from 3 .45acp rounds added to factory loading, section of copper rod weighing 3 ounces as a slug. :eek::eek:

all 3 shooters ended up with fragments in their bodies, the last was permanently deafened.


There's a sucker born every minute, an idiot every second.

helotaxi
September 6, 2012, 06:45 PM
There's a sucker born every minute, an idiot every second.And the latter seems to be too resilient to die from their mistakes many times and they breed prolifically. I guess when sense and intelligence are missing...well you have to compensate somewhere. Get tough or die and put a lot of offspring out there in the hopes that some will survive their own stupidity.

Ky Larry
September 6, 2012, 08:23 PM
You don't have to die to win a Darwin Award. You have to remove your DNA from the human gene pool by being unable to reproduce. Think about exploding guns and flying steel fragments.:eek:

Jim Watson
September 6, 2012, 08:34 PM
We had a guy like weemsf's contact here. We called him "Scoops" because he would just scoop the case full of whatever powder. He was apparently semi-literate and if it said "rifle powder" it was good enough for his .300 Win Mag. He blew up two before the only sizeable store in town would only sell him H870, which is too slow for a caseful to do any harm.
They carefully explained that 4227 was for his .44 Magnum. A case full is an overload but not enough to wreck a SBH. I don't know how he has fared since the store closed and left him to his own devices again.

627PCFan
September 6, 2012, 08:47 PM
second: Enfield .303, powder from 20mm rounds mixed with Bullseye and ground in flour mill to fine dust, unweighed, compressed loads.

I thought this guy would be ok until i read the mixed with bullseye (booster charge? and flour for the fireball effect. )

GLOOB
September 6, 2012, 08:50 PM
^^ This kind of story (Scoops),

and these:


second: Enfield .303, powder from 20mm rounds mixed with Bullseye and ground in flour mill to fine dust, unweighed, compressed loads.

third: 20 gauge, powder from 3 .45acp rounds added to factory loading, section of copper rod weighing 3 ounces as a slug.

... make me think mixing powders might not be so bad. Just that maybe those prone to trying it are on average extremely stupid.

They weren't mixing powders with the goal of working up a new load with unique properties. They were building pipe bombs. Anyone who pulled the same kinds of stunts with a pure cannister grade powder woulda ended up in the ER, too.

I thought this guy would be ok until i read the mixed with bullseye (booster charge? and flour for the fireball effect. )
The Bullseye was superfluous. When you grind slow, coarse cannon powder into dust, you're greatly increasing the surface area of the powder and removing any chemical coating that controls burn rate. This probably turned it into a faster powder than Bullseye, anyhow. It's the size of the granules that makes the difference in burn rates of different grades of black powder propellants. In the old days, they just graded it by using different sized sieves. Today's propellants come in all kinds of shapes and sizes to control burn rate.

wulf415
September 6, 2012, 09:08 PM
I thought this guy would be ok until i read the mixed with bullseye (booster charge? and flour for the fireball effect. )
Additional details: he ground up the two powders together in the mill, poured the finely ground powder into the case, tamped it down, added more, then seated the bullet. at the range , he fired two rounds, then remarked to his buddy, who was observing him, "This rifle's kicking pretty hard, I'll reduce my load the next time I reload." then he pressed the trigger, and the rifle blew up.

wulf415
September 6, 2012, 09:22 PM
GLOOB writ:

"They weren't mixing powders with the goal of working up a new load with unique properties. They were building pipe bombs."



Quite true. the first case was an old timer who thought he knew everything, the second case was a first-time reloader, and the last was just a nitwit trying to make a 20 gauge armor piercing round.

one more case: a 15 year old who tried to turn a .44 spl into a .44 magnum by mixing the powder from grenade launcher blanks with our old friend Bullseye. his load bulged the cylinder until it jammed against the top strap.

Lord, what fools these mortals be... :(

newfalguy101
September 6, 2012, 11:43 PM
I have heard of Blackpowder guys using a "pinch" of smokless to give a "bit of kick" to their loads.

Mixed smokless?? I dont plan on ever trying it, I like my fingers................mostly anyway

Jim Watson
September 7, 2012, 01:44 AM
Duplex loads with a LITTLE smokeless UNDER a black powder charge is a reasonable proposition when done with care. It worked for Harry Pope.

I have a book describing duplex loading of two grades of smokeless in a varmint rifle in the 1950s.

Elmer Keith and his friends called flash tube ignition "duplex" and stratified powder charges "double duplex."

Early Casul gun buster testing was with duplex or even triplex loads; all made obsolete by H110 powder.

No, you don't mix powders, you layer them.

But maybe YOU shouldn't. I know I don't.

ArchAngelCD
September 7, 2012, 03:04 AM
Yep, that's about what I would expect to happen.


Do yourself a favor and don't EVER shoot any of that guy's handloads. Your guns will thank you. Also your hands and face.
Ain't that the truth. I would not be within 50 feet of that guy when he shoots!

MtnCreek
September 7, 2012, 09:42 AM
Those are some scary stories. About the worst I've seen was a guy at the range using a mallet to open his bolt. I asked him what the problem was and he told me he was trying to get a good load for (some old surplus bolt gun) with Benchmark and didn't have data. He said he tried XX.X grs last week and could hardly get the bolt open with the mallet, so he backed it off a gr and it was still really hard to open, but he had to shoot them so he could use the brass to try again. He assured me it was safe because those old military rifle are made to take anything. I wished him luck and proceeded to leave.

Salmoneye
September 7, 2012, 10:40 AM
Duplex loads with a LITTLE smokeless UNDER a black powder charge is a reasonable proposition when done with care. It worked for Harry Pope.

I have a book describing duplex loading of two grades of smokeless in a varmint rifle in the 1950s.

Elmer Keith and his friends called flash tube ignition "duplex" and stratified powder charges "double duplex."

Early Casul gun buster testing was with duplex or even triplex loads; all made obsolete by H110 powder.

No, you don't mix powders, you layer them.

But maybe YOU shouldn't. I know I don't.

I have an old manual that has listings for .30-06 duplex loads...

I ignore them...

JSmith
September 7, 2012, 10:59 AM
Why someone would want to blend powders is beyond me.

Well, you know how it gets sometimes: you have all these cans and jars with 1/4" of powder left in them kicking around the reloading bench so you think "why not?"...

Of course, the reloading bench is a TERRIBLE place to start thinking. Don't EVER think. Just follow the published load data EXACTLY. Good boy. You don't want the nice ER folks telling stories about you. ("You will not believe the idiot they hauled in today. Had various revolver parts stuffed in him sideways.")

SharpsDressedMan
September 7, 2012, 07:32 PM
I knew a welll known, and respected, firearms & reloading expert & writer who told me he occasionally blended Accurate #7 and Accurate #9 to make "Accurate #8", and used it in the .38 Super with success. He wouldn't go into any other detail on it, as he didn't want tosteer anyone else into POTENTIAL trouble.

OrangePwrx9
September 8, 2012, 09:55 AM
I like my gun collection and my finger collection too well to try any of this.

The guns came hard; one at a time with money I earned. The fingers, well, they were a gift from Mom. :)

just for fun
September 8, 2012, 10:09 PM
Digging into the old memory banks, I believe the 454 Cascual started out with triplex powder charge! Bullseye,231,and 2400,each seperated with thin cardboard. These were not factory loads,but the gun's enventor's loads!!! amount and order they were put into cases was not discussed in the article. (AND FOR GOOD REASON)

ArchAngelCD
September 8, 2012, 10:49 PM
Even those crazy triplex loads are not blended powders...

Clark
September 9, 2012, 03:52 AM
just for fun
Digging into the old memory banks, I believe the 454 Cascual started out with triplex...

Google search comes right back here

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=110435

November 9, 2004, 08:17 Clark
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
P.O. Ackley "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol I" 1962:
page 521: "..Dick Casull...Colt Frontier...5 shot cylinders..special [steel].. powder charges are introduced into the case in the order given... primer pockets altered..Remington 9 1/2 primers.."
454 Magnun, 230 gr, 2 gr Unique, 25 gr 2400, 3 gr Bullseye 2000 fps
250 gr 2 gr Unique, 25 gr 2400, 2 gr Unique 1890 fps
300 gr 25 gr 2400, 2 gr Unique 1710 fps

20" barrel Model 92 Winchester rifle:
230 gr, 2 gr Unique, 25 gr 2400, 3 gr Bullseye 2315 fps
250 gr 2 gr Unique, 25 gr 2400, 2 gr Unique 2185 fps

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