Foreign Made Items


PDA






retiredsgt
February 26, 2004, 07:56 PM
Don't really know the reasons, but as of late(past two to three years) I have had an aversion to purchasing any foreign made guns. This includes rifles,shotguns, and handguns. I am really not zenophobic, but I just want to 'Buy American'.
At gun shows, and the local shops, I'll look at some of the Roosian made shotguns, Italian shotguns, and Jap. rifles, but I just will not purchase any. I am a real fan of the No.1's, but I recently was in the market for a super accurate rifle. I ended up buying a Remington Classic in .221 Remington Fireball. I am now in the process of working up a load for it, and it does seem promising. But, in the hunt for that particular gun, I looked at CZ's, Howas, Tinkas, and Brownings. I just did not want to buy anything, not made here. Maybe it is just a reaction to the WAR, but there seems to be a lot of Quality American made guns out there. Or is it just me?

If you enjoyed reading about "Foreign Made Items" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jsalcedo
February 26, 2004, 08:14 PM
Many American gun makers take us for granted in a lot of ways.

Politically, economically, and in general not listening to the customers wants and needs outside of the hunting/sporting clays/1911ensteins.

I'm not a hunter or competitor, just CCW, collector and informal plinker/target shooter. Pretty much everything I want is foriegn C&R surplus
or stuff that has gone through the loops like CETME, SAR etc...

I'll buy some good used American made revolvers but I'm really not interested in what is being offered at the moment.

Werewolf
February 26, 2004, 09:17 PM
FWIW I currently own 4 Rifles, 2 Pistols, 2 Revolvers and a Shotgun.

Of those 9 weapons 5 are US made and obviously 4 are foreign made.

Of those 9 weapons I have experienced problems with 2 revolvers and 2 rifles.

Of the 4 foreign made weapons each has performed flawlessly.

Of the 5 US made only 1 (a Marlin 25N) has performed flawlessly

1 US Rifle is a total POS that failed right out of the box - currently at the manufacturer for warranty repair

1 US Rifle has an occasional misfeed due to poor design of the elevator tray and feed system (and this is with the RNFP bullets it was designed to feed - no telling what would happen if I tried to feed it WC's - other than that annoying failure mode which I can now fix in about a minute when it happens the rifle is pretty good)

2 US Revolvers have poor accuracy because of lousy QC and piss poor engineering. Required gunsmithing to correct

All of the US weapons are top name brand weapons

So:

Foreign made weapons: 100% good no problems - ever
US made weapons: 20% good with no problems ever - 20% with occasional problems - 20% POS - 40% required a gunsmith to make work right

My next purchase (within the next week) will be a .45ACP pistol. It won't be made in the US...

4v50 Gary
February 26, 2004, 09:22 PM
Nothing against ferrin guns if they're well made.

I happen to have some Chinese AKs, German HKs, English Enfield .303, Parker Hale English (made) Enfields (39", 32" & 24" bbl), Japanese (Miroku), Belgian (HP) & Baby Browning (the FN one), Russians M91/30, Argentina (or is it Brasil?) SAR-48. It's a virtual UN (OK, some black ones are ostracized and hiding in Nevada) in my collection.

Going to try to get a Chinese muzzleloader smuggled out of China and into the US (legal on our side of the pond but not on theirs).

Josey
February 26, 2004, 09:28 PM
I bought a Springfield Armory 1911. Made in Brazil. Total POS. I bought a Browning Hi-Power made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal. Great pistol. I have Russian rifles and shotguns. No problem. I bought a USRAC Winchester made in Japan. Total POS. I buy Birkenstock shoes because thay are comfortable and durable. I buy for quality. I recently bought some Kangol caps made in England and Italy. The hat company here is going out of business and 70 people are losing their jobs. Quality is rewarded.

Oleg Volk
February 27, 2004, 09:35 AM
Something relevant: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams110701.asp

By analogy, I would by a drawing by Klimt even though he as an Austrian. Likewise, I'd buy a photo by a Norwegian or a Chinese artist, if the image was good. I see no reason why I can't apply the same strategy to cookies, guns or cameras. Hopefully, foreigners would continue buying my images and designs as well.

DougCxx
February 27, 2004, 10:33 AM
It's all fine and well to keep in mind the prospect of supporting domestic businesses, but you need to consider if you are supporting a substandard company by purchasing an inferior product--and it's also worth noting that some types of guns aren't manufactured by any US companies at all.
--- I like Olympic-style target, but if you want to do just about any Olympic style shooting with either airguns or firearms you basically must buy foreign, because no US company makes competitive guns anymore, and they haven't for several decades now.
...... Currently, [foreign-manufactured] 22LR free pistols and high-end airguns are being made now that have no safeties at all. These guns can be operated safely of course, but as for an idiot button, there isn't one--and this seems to be exactly the opposite direction that US companies are moving in. Some day it's gonna take three hands to fire a US-made pistol.
~

Old Fuff
February 27, 2004, 11:20 AM
Doug:

I know what you're saying about Olympic match arms - have been there and done that. The real problem is that new "for the children" safety lock laws may prohibit the importation of the guns you're using.

HankB
February 27, 2004, 11:49 AM
I have had an aversion to purchasing any foreign made guns. Whenever possible, I try to buy American made goods. I'll even pay a modest premium as long as the quality is there. But then I see all too many American companies, including those exhorting me to "buy American" don't show any aversion to foreign goods when they stand to make a buck.

What IS an American-made gun?

I just read that Remington will be importing and selling foreign shotguns. Another poster had a Japanese-made Winchester. Weatherby has had guns made in both Europe and Japan. S&W is in bed with the German firm Walther. Browning - Japan, Belgium, and Portugal. Springfield Armory - Brazil. Colt has worked with Sauer. Beretta is Italian, but is making guns here now. Austria's Glock - made in Georgia. Ruger? Maybe, but Glock has done more for American RKBA than either Ruger or S&W.

Parts, barrels, gunstocks . . . no telling where EVERY part comes from.

So . . . what DO you buy, if you're really honest and strict about avoiding foreign stuff? There's not much left.
:(

JohnBT
February 27, 2004, 07:17 PM
I like good guns, I don't care who made them. The last one I bought was made in Montana...

www.cooperfirearms.com/custom_classic.html

I do have a real spiffy synthetic bomber-style jacket that was made in Mongolia. I didn't know they had factories in Mongolia, but Hecht's was selling jackets from there. It's held up for 3 years so far and it's water repellant, too. Not bad for 70% off. I love a deal.

Got CZs, Sako, Belgium/Portuguese BHP, Remington, Ruger, Kimber and *&*, too.

John

retiredsgt
February 28, 2004, 04:53 PM
Gentlemen: Thanks for the comments. Similar to American made autos. Toyotas, BMW's, etc. are made right here. Makes you wonder. Sometimes you get into a "funk" and need to ponder the possibilities.

GD
February 29, 2004, 09:36 AM
I will buy American when it is a better product. When I compare my Toyota Camry with 330,000 miles on it to my Ford Taurus with 95,000 miles on it the choice is simple - I'll continue to buy Camrys.
Likewise, when I compare how cheaply my new American made rifles are to the ruggedness and accuracy of some of my curio and relics, I am done buy new rifles.
I will not reward someone for making a poor product.

Gewehr98
February 29, 2004, 09:54 AM
If it wasn't for a few captured Spanish Mausers, we wouldn't have had the 1903 Springfield.

Or the Model 70 Winchester, or Model 77 Ruger, and so forth. ;)

wardog
February 29, 2004, 09:54 AM
Retiredsgt,

I understand how you feel. I like to try to buy American whenever I can, but sometimes the exact gun I'm looking for may not be produced in the US.

I posted a poll on this topic here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55600&highlight=import+or+domestic

Tamara
February 29, 2004, 10:32 AM
It's awful hard to find a good American-made 98k or Arisaka. :uhoh:

Redlg155
February 29, 2004, 10:33 AM
American or Foreign, it doesn't matter to me. I prefer quality and whoever has it will get my money.

Same thing with cars or any high priced electronics. If companies want us to buy USA, then they need to get off their backsides and make the product better than their competitors and don't rely on sympathy or high tarrifs against the competitor to sell your product.

I will say that the American companies have the AR15 market wrapped up pretty good.

Good Shooting
Red

hksw
February 29, 2004, 10:54 AM
"If companies want us to buy USA, then they need to get off their backsides and make the product better than"...and cost as much or close to..."their competitors and don't rely on sympathy or high tarrifs against the competitor to sell your product."

TechBrute
February 29, 2004, 11:21 AM
Why buy American? Many people do so because it's the "patriotic" thing to do.

I think of it this way: this country was founded on capitalism. Therefore, by supporting the company that produces what I really want, I am being patriotic.

Some American companies really don't seem to care about you, the American consumer, so why exactly would you show them loyalty?

All things being equal, I buy American to support the few American workers still in our country.

Rembrandt
February 29, 2004, 11:49 AM
Unfortunately the American "disposable mindset" seems to be what dictates manufactured quality by some (not all) U.S. companies. The majority of American buyers are price shoppers first and quality second.

Americans use, abuse, throw away, and buy new.....whereas Europeans are geared more towards quality products built for a lifetime.

My collection consists of about 75% overseas, and 25% American made....Optics are a good example, I much prefer Swarovski and Ziess to the quality I've found elsewhere.

HankB
February 29, 2004, 12:05 PM
I much prefer Swarovski and Ziess to the quality I've found elsewhere. Even in optics, a European label does NOT mean European manufacture.

I have Zeiss camera lenses - made in Japan. I have Leupold mini-binoculars, made in Portugal by Leitz/Leica. And Leica riflescope were assembled by Leupold. I've seen the production line in Japan for some Leica camera lenses. And I believe Zeiss is doing some production and assembly here in the USA.

Even if the label says "Made in ...." there's no guarantee that EVERY SINGLE PART was made there, just that enough materials and/or labor was supplied in that country to satisfy legal requirements for the "Made in . . . " label.

Skunkabilly
March 1, 2004, 08:14 PM
American good: SOE, Eagle, Strider, Surefire, Deering Banjos etc. etc. etc.
American ok: Springfield Armory
American bad: Things with 'USA' in the name (with the exception of Winchester whitebox)

Korean good: Exchange students, Daewoo autos with locks stocks and barrels.
Korea ok: Blackhawk industries, mandolins, guitars.
Korean bad: Daewoo autos with wheels. Saga banjos

Vote with your dorrar....

faustulus
March 1, 2004, 08:55 PM
I support quailty products and services where ever they are made. If someone offers me a good product at a fair price with good service, he has my business.
If, however, he wants me to choose his product based on some sense of nationalism, he is going to have a hard row to hoe.
I think buying products based on emotion, nationalism, what have you hurts the businesses it purports to help.
Look at the American auto industry.

Gewehr98
March 1, 2004, 09:55 PM
Korean bad: Daewoo autos with wheels. Saga banjos

Vote with your dorrar....

Meet the newest addition to the G-98 fleet of family transportation, purchased because we were expecting. Maybe Detroit will offer a 10 year, 100K mile warranty one of these days:

http://mauser98.com/denacardaylight2.jpg

schromf
March 1, 2004, 10:10 PM
Too many of our " American " products aren't American at all. I really try to buy American when I can, it doesn't mean I am foolish about it, but in principle I want to keep Americans working. The problem comes in when the American corporation trys to hoodwink us into believing you are getting a USA product. Ford, GM, make significant portions of their vehicles in Mexico and Canada, I owned a Volkswagon Jetta that was made in Pennsylvania, Toyota makes cars in the USA, Mercedes just opened a plant in Georgia.

When it comes to USRA ( Browning and Winchester ) I loved Winchester but USRA sucks. I have been PO'd by them for years, they took almost 30 years to get CRF back in the model 70, the new featherweight has a Schnabel stock and a real ugly Fleur-de-lis checkering, they haven't done decent checkering of any kind in god knows how long. To make matters worse there isn't but a couple of calibers I am even remotely interested in. Lets see buy a Win Model 70 featherweight-$650.00, have it rebarreled cause I don't like the caliber choice ( optional ) $300.00, have a decent walnut stock done with point pattern checkering min $400.00 and probably at least another $200.00 in bedding and incidentals, so I have almost $2000 tied up. Ok bad idea, no problem lets look at the supergrade: only three calibers of any interest at all 25-06, 30-06, 338 Mag. I would consider a 270, 280, maybe a 7mm mag, so now I play USRA's flavor of the year garbage maybe next year they will have a caliber I want, Hmm problem is I have money this year and want a rifle in the next couple of months not on some whim of USRA. For all of this aggrevation and wait I take the risk of getting a rifle that groups three inches a 100 yds. And I might get a barrel made in Japan.

Remington is pretty much in the same boat, its called "used to be quality" now I just don't know.

Or I can avoid all the above annoyances a spend $1000.00 and get a Sako, or if I want a really nice one $1500. The differences are in contrast to above, I get known quality no risk, in calibers I want. Or other purchase options are second tier American gun companies, ( which many of I like their products ) who produce quality, I pay a little more but I know what to expect.

Although I am not a big Ruger fan I applaud Bill Ruger for making a working mans rifle, made in the USA.

In this day and age it seems that the big corporate gun companys design guns, by MBA's, lawyers, marketing deptartments and production engineers, and frankly I am not biting. I don't want to be impelded to take my new gun to the gunsmith to sort out garbage, I want to buy quality first time, when I need gunsmith services I want full custom.

cracked butt
March 1, 2004, 11:19 PM
I could not justify for myself to buy a remington 700 bdl or winchester model 70 hunting rifle if I could buy a much better made CZ-550 for less money.

J Jones
March 1, 2004, 11:27 PM
I'll pay a slight premium for an American made product, but the quality MUST be there first. I don't see much quality for a lot of American made products.

schromf
March 2, 2004, 12:10 AM
cracked butt, I concur. Although I don't like plastic on my guns of any type a Tikka at $495.00 or a CZ for $450 is tough to beat. Remington is closest with the ADL line, and they at least chamber a 270, but the BDL's are $600.00. The USRA's are $600 and up. But I suspect the Tikka will out shoot the the USRA or the Remington, and wouldn't be suprised if the CZ did.

In fairness I did get rummaging around on the USRA site and did find something I liked a Model 70 Custom Ultimate Classic in a 280 Remington I didn't like the $2900 price tag though, lets see thats:

1 Dakota Arms Wood Hunter -$2500 and $500 for glass
2 Sako 75 Deluxe rifles
3 Sako 75 Hunter rifles
6 Tikkas
6 CZ's lets make a couple magnums

Chuck Jennings
March 2, 2004, 01:40 AM
The majority of American buyers are price shoppers first and quality second

That is true when it comes to many consumer goods. However when it comes to durable goods such as autos and firearms, shoppers will decide with a greater balance between quality and price.

If you enjoyed reading about "Foreign Made Items" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!