A seaxy new blade!


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Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 09:45 AM
A little something John and I have been working on:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171342&stc=1&d=1347198232

The "Shivver!"

This one is the modestly sized version, the "Temperate Shivver."

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171343&stc=1&d=1347198232

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Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 09:52 AM
Specs:

0.11" CPM 3V semi-full-flat grind -- hardened to Rc 59.8 by Bos

1-1/8" wide at the hilt.

Blade: 5"
OAL: 9-1/4"

Handles are Jade G10 with brick red liners and stainless pin and lanyard tube.
Finish is Deep Flat Black Gun Kote.

This is currently the sharpest knife I've made.

And, as a teaser, this is the "baby" one!

bikerdoc
September 9, 2012, 10:25 AM
Nice.

I am current working on some thing similar, but with a sabre point.

Yours are so much nicer, :(

Gordon
September 9, 2012, 10:33 AM
I don't like that direction at all , in form or materials ! I think you are a wonderful builder BTW. Oh well to each there own.

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 11:08 AM
:) That's cool -- it wouldn't be my style for a lot of purposes, either. But an interesting variation with both historical precidents and a certan modern appeal as well.

Curious as to the materials issue. 3V is some amazing stuff.

hso
September 9, 2012, 11:54 AM
Sort of a seaxy kiadashi.

Where's the balance point?

Let's see the shoulders of the bevels to see if you Quasimodoed it. :evil:

JShirley
September 9, 2012, 12:07 PM
Gordon, you can blame me.

Looks great, Sam. Maybe when you have a chance you can show it in the hand- that would be a good point to show the balance, too.

Gordon
September 9, 2012, 12:49 PM
And from the best spine treatment in the world designer of the Camp Defender :rolleyes:

Valkman
September 9, 2012, 12:57 PM
Nice work Sam! Almost looks like a kitchen knife to me. :)

JShirley
September 9, 2012, 01:12 PM
Ah, now, Gordon. There are more knives coming down the pike that'll be more to your liking. :D

TimboKhan
September 9, 2012, 01:21 PM
I like it!

Rexster
September 9, 2012, 01:51 PM
I like it, too!

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 01:54 PM
Balance point on this one is back at the choil. The material is thin and doesn't weigh much. The G10 scales and the pins probably equal the weight of the whole blade, so I can only do so much with balance. The tang is slightly skeletonized, but I'm leery of going too extreme with that because I've seen a few nice blades broken through the tang when drilled out too much.

There's another waiting to be finished which will present the opposite problem. So much blade that it will balance pretty far forward. Just have to wait and see that one! ;)

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 01:55 PM
Let's see the shoulders of the bevels to see if you Quasimodoed it.
I'll try to get some close-up pics ... though I'm not quite sure what that means. :)

JShirley
September 9, 2012, 02:01 PM
Bet it has something to do with a hunchback...

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 02:47 PM
Ok, so I tried to get some close ups. My camera skills apparently do not extend to that. :o

Best I can do are these:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171356&stc=1&d=1347216225

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171378&stc=1&d=1347237842

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171357&stc=1&d=1347216225

Does this give you any more info about whether or not I worked in a hunchback? (I'm just not familiar with that skill, design, or term.)

The grind is flat, parallel to the edge. Meaning that the top of the grind dies right at the break of the spine, where it angles down to the tip. There is a full-thickness spine of blade above that line which forms a long, narrow triangle as the blade widens back toward the hilt. But that flat finish makes it really hard to see, even with the naked eye.

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 02:54 PM
And from the best spine treatment in the world designer of the Camp Defender Awww, shucks! :) I'm blushing!

One of the cool things about making blades, I'm finding, is that I can try out all kinds of different stuff just to see if I like it -- or to please someone else's tastes.

This blade would make an awfully nice kitchen knife as Don said. You could slice a mountain of veggies! :) Or, if you've a need to do anything stabby, it would probably work very well for that, too.

It would not probably be a legendary success as a camp knife, or chopper.

To that end, as John said, there's some radically different stuff in the pipeline, probably much more to your tastes. :)

hso
September 9, 2012, 08:14 PM
If you taper the tang or drill the tang under the scales you can move the balance point up a little bit, but many people will like the balance on the index finger.

Bikewer
September 9, 2012, 08:20 PM
I gather that the original Seax design apparently came in many sizes; from utility knife to sword. Practical and easy to make, compared to more modern blades.
Like other such blades around the world, an all-purpose tool/weapon, equally adept at chopping wood or limbs.

hso
September 9, 2012, 08:28 PM
"hunchback"- the shoulders where the grind starts at the tang are not even, with one shoulder being offset in any direction from the opposite start of the grind.

My favorite term for "the grinds aren't even at the ricasso".

Perfectly matched bevels/grinds/plunges/ricassos are a favorite measure of mine of the skill of a maker because they're so difficult to pull off without mounting in a fixture.

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 08:37 PM
If you taper the tang or drill the tang under the scales you can move the balance point up a little bit, but many people will like the balance on the index finger.

It is drilled with a series of holes to try to lighten the tang. As I said before, I'm leery of drilling too many holes or too big. Saw a bushcraft knife from a well-known maker that had snapped through a hole in the tang and that scares me.

Tapering the tang is not a skill I've attempted yet. It scares me. :o :) I bet I COULD, but these things take me long enough as it is!

Sam1911
September 9, 2012, 08:49 PM
Perfectly matched bevels/grinds/plunges/ricassos are a favorite measure of mine of the skill of a maker because they're so difficult to pull off without mounting in a fixture.


Ah HA! Yes, that's been a particular goal of mine for several months now. I knew that the straight geometrical lines of this knife would show up any goofs (I even groused to John about that when he suggested this form! :)) I see a fair number of knives where the grinds don't start at quite the same spot (lengthwise) when you look at it edge-on. That kind of bugs me in my own work, so I've worked hard on it. Same goes for grinds that are lopsided side-to-side. Unless it is a chisel-grind, I think the blade should be as symmetrical as possible.

But, like cutting dovetails back in my woodworking days, it's all about setting layout lines and working right up to them, and not over. It's just a different material, a different set of motions, and lots of new ways to screw up! :D

I'm proud to say that I did a pretty solid job on this one. (And then marred the "cheeks" of the grind a bit with the grinder putting the final edge on it! :o)

I've added the very fuzzy pic of the obverse (?) side so you can try and judge my hunchiness. :)

(Wow... micro-scale pics show up a lot! I need to clean up a bit more epoxy residue -- in case anyone's ever looking at this knife under a microscope! :D)

hso
September 9, 2012, 09:01 PM
If I get my hands on it you know I will be doing just that.

You are cleaning your epoxy right after you clamp the scales, aren't you. After getting the majority of it off you go after it with an acetone wetted Q-tip and then a dental pic.

I think the blade should be as symmetrical as possible

Any maker should and every collector does. The grinds must be balanced unless they're intentionally not intended to.

kozak6
September 10, 2012, 03:20 AM
Kind of an angular wharncliffe sort of thing? Wonderful! I like the straight lines and angles.

I was gifted a modified wharncliffe folder a few years back. At first, I hated it because I thought it was ugly, but I fell in love with it since it worked for me so well. Having the tip so far forwards gives you more control over it, although this is more so with a shorter blade.

I'd love to make some knives something like this whenever I can get a suitable workspace and tools together.

sidheshooter
September 10, 2012, 01:00 PM
I think that is just plain cool. Nice job!

Deltaboy
September 11, 2012, 04:07 PM
It is lovely, I would love to see one with a 4 inch blade. It would make a point for sure.

Sam1911
September 11, 2012, 06:23 PM
Well, there certainly has been some interest in a shorter (3", 3.5", maybe 4") version. As well as a slightly more commanding length. How 'bout a 9"-er?!?

Gordon
September 11, 2012, 08:42 PM
As close as I will ever get to the design and I only got it because of the recurve, brut de forge and the killer handle :D
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/gordonhulme/005-15.jpg
Thing is I can't figure out a use for it even tho this one like to chop, so it rests with those two big stickers. Really I can;t figure it's use except for cooking! :scrutiny:

Brian Williams
September 12, 2012, 01:10 AM
That looks like it should be in MHI or Grimnoir Cronicles.

sidheshooter
September 12, 2012, 02:13 AM
Well, there certainly has been some interest in a shorter (3", 3.5", maybe 4") version.

Add me to the chorus, please.

That looks like it should be in MHI or Grimnoir Cronicles.

Hah! Amazon just sent me the new hardback of MHI legion; I'm almost through it...

Sam1911
September 13, 2012, 07:19 AM
Put together a sheath last night so I can carry this thing around and try it out:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171605&stc=1&d=1347535026

As my attire and daily life isn't generally amenable to accessorizing with a 9" sheath knife, I made it as a tuckable IWB:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171604&stc=1&d=1347535026

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=171606&stc=1&d=1347535026

The sheath rivets are spaced to allow easy attachment of a small Tek-Lock fo anyone who might not want to carry IWB (John).

(Now why can't they make the danged hole spacing of the small and large Tek-Locks the same!?! I can't get any of the belts I own to fit through a small one, but the large ones are huge on a small-ish knife like this. They need a "medium".)

Wolfebyte
September 13, 2012, 07:36 AM
Sweet!

I'd be tempted with a 4 inch blade version..


Darn Texas knife laws..:cuss:

Sam1911
September 13, 2012, 07:43 AM
Well, dang it! I'm just going to have to make some shortys I guess! :)

Jason_G
September 13, 2012, 06:27 PM
That's good-looking work. :cool:

Jason

Gordon
September 13, 2012, 11:14 PM
While you are "making up some shorties" how about a 'pocket bowie' like I been waiting for? :) No stainless steel please and normal useful curved blade pretty please, a matched little pocketable mate to the Camp Defender .

Sam1911
September 14, 2012, 07:17 AM
John's been asking for me to get the pocket bowie concept on the front burner for about a year now. Sure want to. Maybe in my next batch.

(FWIW, 3V isn't stainless, which is why I usually coat it with something. It's just a crazy-good tool steel.)

Gordon
September 14, 2012, 10:00 AM
Wow I thought 3v was sea foam stainless, I'll have to check out it's properties.

Sam1911
September 14, 2012, 10:08 AM
From CPM's website: http://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/tooldie/cpm3vt.html

CPM 3V is a high toughness, wear-resistant tool steel made by the Crucible Particle Metallurgy process. It is designed to provide maximum resistance to breakage and chipping in a high wear-resistance steel. It offers impact resistance greater than A2, D2, Cru-Wear, or CPM M4, approaching the levels provided by S7 and other shock resistant grades. CPM 3V is intended to be used at 58/60 HRC in applications where chronic breakage and chipping are encountered in other tool steels, but where the wear properties of a high alloy steel are required.
...
The wear and toughness properties of CPM 3V make it an excellent alternative to shock-resistant steels such as S7 or A9, where they typically wear out too quickly, but where grades such as A2, CruWear, or CPM M4 tend to fail by breaking or chipping. CPM 3V offers the highest impact toughness of any tool steel with this range of wear resistance.
...

Mechanical Properties

Impact Toughness
CPM 3V offers impact toughness (Charpy C notch) approaching the shock-resistant tool steels, with much greater wear resistance.

Wear Resistance
CPM 3V offers substantial improvements in tool wear life when compared with conventional tool steels such as A2 and D2. CPM 3V’s high vanadium content offers wear resistance similar to M2 high speed steel.

Gordon
September 14, 2012, 02:51 PM
You sold me on that if you like to work with it.

Sam1911
September 14, 2012, 02:54 PM
:) Well, I've just started using it, but it is nice in that it can be pushed up in hardness without some of the risk of chipping that comes if you do that with other steels.

I've got some really choppy items coming up in 3V that we can compare against 5160 or other more conventional materials. ;)

TimboKhan
September 14, 2012, 10:29 PM
I might be interested in a 4 incher as well.

JShirley
September 15, 2012, 04:54 AM
A Teeny Shivver. :D

Sam1911
October 6, 2012, 06:21 PM
And today the Shivver faced its toughest test yet...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=172999&stc=1&d=1349561960

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173000&stc=1&d=1349561960

It stood up to the test! I should have expected no less, after the stellar way it handled some pork chops last week.

:)

JShirley
October 7, 2012, 09:34 AM
If the pork chops were raw, that's an excellent test for a knife like this. :)

John

JShirley
November 4, 2012, 01:58 PM
Size comparison with (from top)
Spyderco Manix 2 XL
Camp Defender, version 2
Temperate Shivver
ElZetta M60

You can see from the comparison that, in terms of overall size, the TS is about the same size as the Spyderco. It's obviously less robust than other designs Sam and I have. It is very "purposeful". :)

RustHunter87
November 4, 2012, 04:20 PM
I donno thats pretty nice lookin knife, but I to think it could benefit from a smaller more proportional blade.
So how bout the teeny??

JShirley
November 4, 2012, 05:23 PM
For this size handle, that actually *is* a proportionate blade. Somewhere down the line, it might be scaled down, but I think folks will generally get more use from the Daily Kiris Sam should be displaying soon.

NG VI
December 19, 2012, 01:18 AM
I really like it, either that length or maybe a slightly shorter, 4", 4.5" blade, with the IWB sheath you've made, it looks like a pretty good light-use knife to me.

JShirley
December 19, 2012, 09:18 AM
Have you seen the Daily Kiris ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=687185 )? They're made more with daily task use in mind. Sam and I both agree this is not a good EDC for tasks. We both like the Shivvers, but want to give people realistic expectations.

John

Wolfebyte
February 7, 2013, 09:42 PM
*nudging Sam

see if you had any more thoughts on a 4 to 4.5 blade?

hint.. hint..

JShirley
February 7, 2013, 10:22 PM
Sam will probably have some knives in that size envelope ready in a couple months. No guarantee they'll be this blade shape, though...

Wolfebyte
February 8, 2013, 10:58 AM
I've got one of his 3 finger knives... it travels with me daily..

but, I've got big hand.. I like the handle length on this one, but probably with a 4 to 4.5 inch blade. And I kinda like the blade shape..

we shall see..

JShirley
February 8, 2013, 11:13 AM
I think some MK1s will be up next. They're better EDC knives with sub 4" blades.

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