[farmerboy78]

hey guys i am very new to reloading for the .308 win... will a piece of brass with a larger volume allow you to put more powder in the case before hitting pressure signs? i tried 45 gr of varget under a berger 175 vld. getting very high pressure signs with the LC brass and signs are just beginning with GMM brass. with a slightly larger case volume, could winchester brass allow me to use the 45 gr of varget without any pressure signs?

[evan price]

How about trying LESS powder and seeing if you get accuracy and velocity you want? If not maybe you need a 300 winmag instead of 308 win.

[redbullitt]

Thats a heck of a hot charge there, even in regular win or rem brass.

LC has less capacity, so you are going to have to drop the charge to even less than what you would normally use.

Did you work up to that load? If not, I'd not shoot anymore of those... Most people find a good load between 42 and 44 g in commercial brass. I suggest you look there.

[Jasper1573]

I shoot a lot of LC brass with Reloader 15 (similar to Varget)...I use a max charge of 44 grains in the winter when temps are lower here in Alabama and about 43.5 grains or so in the summer. I know that Varget is less temp sensitive, so maybe you can find a load that works well year round in the LC brass.

Yes, you can put more powder into the Winchester brass, but you will get less velocity...pretty much a waste of your resources.

+1 to what everyone else said...drop back to 42 or 43 grains and work up from there just to be safe. If I am not mistaken, 45 grains is approaching a compressed load with Varget even in commercial brass.

[USSR]

will a piece of brass with a larger volume allow you to put more powder in the case before hitting pressure signs?

Yes, especially in regards to .308/7.62x51 brass

i tried 45 gr of varget under a berger 175 vld. getting very high pressure signs with the LC brass and signs are just beginning with GMM brass.

The load data for Varget on Hodgdon's website is with Winchester brass. IIRC, it lists up to 46.0gr of Varget with a 175gr bullet. When using LC 7.62x51 brass, you should reduce this load data by 1.5 - 2.0 grains. I would also suggest that you do the same with Fed. GMM brass as, while it has more case capacity than LC, it is nowhere's near what Winchester has and the brass does not hold up well to high pressure. It is very important to note the make of brass used for .308 load data.

with a slightly larger case volume, could winchester brass allow me to use the 45 gr of varget without any pressure signs?

More than likely, yes.

Don

[farmerboy78]

Guys I appreciate your comments. Yes I did start at 41 gr of garter and work up to 45. And 45 was the magic number for accuracy. I am using a savage 10 pc with a swfa 10x42 ss series at 200 yds. This past Sat I did some mid range shooting at 450 yds using the 45 gr of varget. 6.75 moa put me on at 450 yds giving me a 5 shot group that measured 2.5 inches outside to outside.

[blarby]

Um.

Speaking very politely.....

A 2.5" group at that distance isn't worth the risk you are putting yourself in, during extend periods of firing that load.


Find something else.


I'd experiment a lot more with seating depth and lower charges before I settled on that load, for those results.

The savage isn't a bad rifle, and if your glass is good, and your hand is good- your load should be giving you more than that.

Heck, maybe even another bullet.

I use both mil spec brass and commercial brass.

If you are developing pressure signs, thats not good. Don't mask the problem by using a thicker bandaid.

[GLOOB]

your load should be giving you more than that.
... a sub 2.5" 5 shot group at 450 yards, and you want more?

[the count]

Are you hell bent on blowing your gun up? Why do you think that really hot loads are good? Meticulous case prep and bullet selection are almost more important than the powder load. I think you should read up on the art of reloading before you proceed. Just my 2 cents worth.

[blarby]

... a sub 2.5" 5 shot group at 450 yards, and you want more?

Not specifically me, in this instance.

However, if I was searching for better or equal to that, it is certainly obtainable.

If I was, and the only way I could get there was with a formula that was over-pressuring my chamber to get there- I would say it either wasn't worth it, or I would find another way.

So in this case, I would say that if if you are willing to sacrifice your firearms lifespan- and possibly your limbspan, that I would expect better results than that.

[KeithET]

You need to listen to all the warnings given above. By the time you have noticed high pressure signs you have most likely exceeded the safe operating pressure already. All the reloading manuals recommend once you notice high pressure signs you should back off on the charge at least until the high pressure sign goes away. This will usually be a grain or two. It sucks that this appears to be an accurate load. Its still best to start over with a different powder, bullet, etc. You can buy new bullets, powder, rifle, etc. You can't buy new eyes, ears, fingers etc. Learning that a load is not safe and moving on is part of reloading. Its an important lesson to learn.

KeithET.

[BullfrogKen]

Learning that a load is not safe and moving on is part of reloading. Its an important lesson to learn.

Here, here.

Doesn't matter to me if it would group half an inch at 450 yards. It's over-pressure.


Keep in mind it's not just a given powder charge that's makes a certain loading accurate. Just because you got a great group with 45 grains in that LC brass load doesn't mean 45 grains will do the same in a Winchester brass load.

Back off, or experiment with a different component, but don't push things beyond what is safe.


I find I get longer brass life when my loads aren't pushed so hard anyway.

[jmr40]

My manuals show that as a max load that should give you 2690 fps. With many rifles this would be perfectly safe. This is why you need a chronograph. If you are getting pressure signs you are most likely well over 2690 fps with that load in your rifle. Maybe not in my rifle. A chronograph measures velocity, but the velocity you are getting is also a far more accurate indicator of pressure. You don't need to be looking at max charges listed in the manuals, but use the max velocity as your guide. When you reach the max velocity listed, you are at a max load.

It does not matter which brass you are using. Start low and work up. When your chronograph gets close to 2690 fps, you are close to a max load with that rifle, brass, bullet load combination. You might hit 2690 at 44 grains with one brand of brass, or 46 grains with another. Just depends on the rifle, brass and bullets you are using.