Stupid blackpowder question of the week: cornmeal=corncob?

I know, I'm dumb. Does corncob polishing media double as cornmeal filler? I'm guessing not.

Also, when you use cornmeal or CoW, do you fill the chambers to the top and then seat the ball? Or do you measure it based on some voodoo calculation or something?


thanks

I use cornmeal but the corncob should work if it fine grained, pour in your powder and then fill with cornmeal until it is about half the diameter of the ball from the top. Tap the butt of the gun on the bench 5 or six times to settle the powder in then set the ball and ram it in. Adjust the amounts until the ball is flush with the front of the chamber,don't fill to the top as the ball will not go down far enough to rotate the cylinder.

Corncob media is not the same as corn meal. Difference is grain size. Corn meal is a better choice, I would imagine, although I've never tried corncob media.

The purpose of the filler is to seat the ball closer to the chamber mouth with less than a full chamber of powder. I just add the measured amount of powder, then fill close to the top with a measured amoutn of filler and seat the ball. If it seats without having to jump up and down on the loading lever, and is close to the chamber mouth, I just note the measurements that got me there. Without trying to get it down to the nearest tenth of a grain.

Of all the uses for corncobs I have found I'd never have thought to use it as a filler in a cap and ball revolver.
Sure, I can use them to scrub stuff, polish tarnished metal, make corncob pipes, use as a bobber when I'm fishing, use it as buckshot buffer material, or exfoliate your face, etc. But that's actually a pretty nice idea.

You should get an electric coffee grinder (if you don't already have one) and grind it to the rough consistency of cornmeal. Or maybe even find a way to use smaller diameter chunks of the cobs as wads in a BP revolver or BP shotgun.

I wonder if you used corn flour if it would dust then catch on fire? That might be kinda cool, a flamethrower that shoots bullets! :D

Cornmeal aka Polenta.

Fill the chamber so you can seat the ball below the face of the cylinder.

Hello, i use 38 special cases cut to different lengths, as example in my remington 44cal the cylinder is longer than my 44cal.1851 so i have marked the 38 special cases per gun and per load, since i use mostly one load in all my 44cal's [25g goex or pyro p, measured cornmeal, .454 ball] i keep it simple, one cut 38 special case for remmie's one cut 38 special case for 44cal 1851's, pghrich

Just curious---what would happen if you MIXED the cornmeal filler in with the black powder instead of topping off the cylinder with it? Would the result be the same?

I know that my chamber will hold 40 grns, a wad, and RB. So if I reduce my load I fill it the remainder with Malt O Meal using either a 380 ACP (10 grns) or 9mm Luger (13.3 grns) case.

I've yet to tailor any cartridge cases to exact amounts. I would kinda like a 5 grn case. I'm still looking for the elusive 32 ACP (7 grns) case.

I know, I'm dumb.

I'll disagree with your self-assessment. I associate "dumb" with "stupid" and I'm going to suggest that instead of dumb you are simply ignorant, most of us are to some degree or another. It isn't just semantics you see as ignorance is curable whereas stupid is pretty much terminal.;) If you truly were dumb then you wouldn't be here on THR even requesting information, therefore you are already attempting to cure your ignorance. Clear as mud, right??

As far as the corn cob media is concerned, it would probably work but why?? Cornmeal is CHEAP!! Also, cornmeal compresses very well, I'll assume that corn cob media isn't going to compress too well. And finally....yes, it truly is a very well guarded voodoo formula that allows us to calculate just the right amount of volume that those of us who do chose to use filler actually use and since you've shown an interest in the Black Sciences I'll be happy to share that particular voodoo spell with you......

After filling the chamber with cornmeal/corncob media or whatever you desire if you have to take your previously unbanned pocket knife out of your pocket and shave the top of the ball off to turn the chamber into battery it's too much. I, like others here I'm sure have learned this the hard way.:banghead:

i did civil war reenactments or over 20 years, we always used cream of wheat, it doesn't have any large particles to become projectiles as blanks,...........and there was an article in a shooting magazine about 15 years ago discussing how it would protect the base of the ball from the burning powder etc......just enough to cover the powder will do and it will give you enough under the ball to prevent a chain fire..............if your doing blanks, pour it down the barrel and keep packing until it doesn't pack anymore,..........use a paper clip to punch into the nipple, that will clear any debre and give you a small channel for the cap to shoot into and give a quicker and cleaner burn, you'll notice you shot groups get a lot tighter that way.....you can load all six cylinders with powder, but put the filler and ball in one at a time, you'll shake up the powder and filler and mix it together if you don't
that could give you a nasty suprise with a chain fire, i've never seen anyone get hurt by one, but i have seen a pistol blown in two pieces before, and even if it doesn't hurt the gun, you'll definetly be awake when it goes off.

Thanks guys. Foto Joe, I was just curious as I have 40 lbs of corncob media that I'm probably never going to get through (plus I ordered the wrong size... I got the larger size that sticks in primer holes), and I don't have any cornmeal handy. But I certainly could buy some. :D

cut off the tips of the balls with a knife... now that's my kinda thinkin'! :cool:

I assume the closer the ball to the forcing cone, the better the accuracy? Generally speaking, of course.

Am I to assume that you de-prime before tumbling?? I've never bothered with the extra step of de-priming before I throw brass in the tumbler. If I wind up with media in the flash hole it simply gets punched through during the de-prime process after tumbling.

As regards the accuracy claim about getting the ball as close to the forcing cone as possible I'm not convinced. Granted I did have that belief at one time but I just can't prove through my own experience that it's true. I use filler for a couple of reasons:

On my "Fake" Navy it allows me to use only 16gr of 3f and still be able to seat the ball adequately onto the powder. A second "possible" benefit would be just that little added extra inert material between the powder and a possible errant flame that might just maybe get past a properly fitted ball causing the dreaded "chain fire". And the last benefit which I think probably is to be had is if you are using lubed wads and don't always fire the gun right away. The filler will absorb any lube that otherwise might foul the powder over an extended period of time. Personally, if I'm going to leave one loaded for a long period I don't even use a lube wad, just powder, filler if any and ball.

I suggest that if you are willing to spend a little time shooting and experimenting thereby eating into your powder and lead reserves you might want to set up a target at your preferred distance and load with and without filler to try and track the accuracy. Some folks swear by filler for accuracy and others don't see the need. Personally I've never been able to tell one way or the other.

I will note that on my 1860's I don't tend to use ANY filler simply because 30gr of 3f fits nicely.

Am I to assume that you de-prime before tumbling??
Generally, no, but I have on some rifle brass on occasion.

Thanks for the helpful info on the rest as well. :cool:

I think I'll start with just powder and a proper-fitting ball (and some grease/lube on top)

Foto Joe makes some excellent points and his experience is consistent with mine. The only time I've had to use filler is because my loading lever would bottom out before the ball was fully seated.

Maybe an added benefit of using corncob media would be that it would clean the barrel as the ball travelled down it...... :D

Just curious---what would happen if you MIXED the cornmeal filler in with the black powder instead of topping off the cylinder with it? Would the result be the same?
it would ignite and burn poorly i reckon.

think of the filler as a wad between the powder and ball.

it would ignite and burn poorly i reckon.

Interestingly enough, I accidently tried this. I had rolled almost 50 paper cartridges for my "Fake" Navy, 16gr 3f with about 20gr of cornmeal. I dropped the pre-rolled cartridges (powder & filler, no ball) into a 45 Colt ammo box that I use for reloading. At some point down the road I had put the ammo box with the rolled cartridges in the saddlebag of the bike and gone over to an outdoor range in Livingston TX. I fired about half the cartridges and when I got back to the rig I neglected to take the box with the unused cartridges out of the saddlebag. They stayed on the bike for several weeks before I realized they were there. During that time they of course got shook up pretty good and the cornmeal basically "combined" with the powder.

I didn't discover what had happened to the cartridges for a couple of months, at which time I decided that I might as well try them to see what happened, which was basically: NOT MUCH. I really couldn't tell the difference, they all went boom just like the ones that hadn't been shook up.

Was the muzzle velocity different? Probably, but the point is they DID fire with no problem. Now, I wouldn't recommend this to try but just because the powder had been mixed up with the cornmeal just didn't seem to make a difference that I could tell. Although it probably wouldn't have worked with Pyrodex.

Interestingly enough, I accidently tried this. I had rolled almost 50 paper cartridges for my "Fake" Navy, 16gr 3f with about 20gr of cornmeal. I dropped the pre-rolled cartridges (powder & filler, no ball) into a 45 Colt ammo box that I use for reloading. At some point down the road I had put the ammo box with the rolled cartridges in the saddlebag of the bike and gone over to an outdoor range in Livingston TX. I fired about half the cartridges and when I got back to the rig I neglected to take the box with the unused cartridges out of the saddlebag. They stayed on the bike for several weeks before I realized they were there. During that time they of course got shook up pretty good and the cornmeal basically "combined" with the powder.


Howdy

You have rediscovered why 'corning' powder was invented. A few hundred years ago it was discovered that when supply wagons bounced over rutted roads for long distances the powder was of less than reliable quality. It turns out that when powder bounces or vibrates in a loose keg for a while, the three component parts of the powder; Potassium Nitrate, Sulfur, and Charcoal tend to separate out by weight. Then as the powder is poured out of the keg, the ratio of the three ingredients will have changed from the ideal 75%, 15% and 10%. This in turn leads to inconsistent quality in the powder. The corning process was invented to prevent the separation of the three components. The three are mixed up wet, and thoroughly stirred. Then the mush is allowed to dry into cakes. The cakes are then broken up and ground to granular size. Although mixing the three components together wet does not constitute a chemical mixture, it intermingles them intimately so that they will not separate after being ground to granular form.

Shaking loose powder and cornmeal together for a long period did the opposite, it interspersed the meal into the powder.

For what it's worth, I used to use cornmeal as a filler in my Black Powder loads. I would first dump in the measured amount of powder I wanted, then I would dump in the measured amount of corn meal I wanted. Working from memory here, but I seem to remember something like 1.9 CC of powder and .7 CC of corn meal. I did not bother to compress the powder before adding the filler, I dumped in the powder, then dumped in the cornmeal, then seated the bullet to compress the whole mess. It always worked fine. I have picked apart enough BP loads to know that when the powder is compressed, it does not compress uniformly through out the entire load. Instead the topmost part of the charge is compressed into a bit of a crust. Picking through the crust eventually frees up the rest of the powder to be dumped out. It has not been compressed. This is because of the granular nature of Black Powder. When compressed, the top most grains interlock with each other mechanically, but the force of compression is taken up interlocking those top most grains. A crust is formed, and nothing below the crust gets compressed.

When I was using corn meal for filler, I was actually only compressing the corn meal, the powder beneath it was not compressed at all. It actually worked fine, but eventually I got tired of the procedure of adding the extra filler and have not done it for a long time. These days I just add enough powder so that it can be compressed about 1/16" - 1/8" when the bullet is seated. No filler. Much simpler this way.

In cowboy circles the most common filler used in grits. Cream of wheat is also mentioned sometimes, I never see corn meal mentioned.

Hmm, BP+felt wad+corncob media+RB=loads that scrub the barrel clean with each shot?

In cowboy circles the most common filler used in grits. Cream of wheat is also mentioned sometimes, I never see corn meal mentioned.
Well, grits IS corn meal, so you are indeed seeing corn meal mentioned, in a way :)

Thanks for the excellent info as well. :Cool:

Wow DJ, THAT was a very enjoyable read.
As i was reading, all that info began to be pulled back out o' my memory banks from long ago.
Now, if i recall correctly.Those interlocked granuals of powder on top o' the uncompressed powder charge, are responsible for the larger sparks,particles if you will, seen mixed with the flash that exits the muzzle when firing the gun.(?)
Now if that is indeed correct. That leads me to a question concerning your sport of CAS.
I once read that in mounted shooting it is actualy the sparks from the powder in the blanks that breaks the balloons(?)
My question then is.How are the blanks loaded so that you get those larger sparks since there really isn't anything compressed on top o' the powder(?) to make those interlocked granuals.

I'd amend your statement to read "particles" rather than "sparks"; I'd wager that's more correct.

Good catch 1K. I'll do that.

Howsat ?

Black Dawge Cartridge Brand Filler was reported to be a type of corn cob media which the company describes as being granular and almost powder like. And they say that it's completely consumed during firing when loaded in a cartridge.

Black Dawge Filler

Filler. Yup. It doesn't propel the bullet down the barrel (not significantly), it doesn't clean anything, it doesn't shine your shoes or call the dog.

It is filler. Granular, almost, might I say, powder like. It takes up space, fills the gap, makes do in between the powder and the bullet.

And that is the point. Black Dawge Filler packs like blackpowder, and performs just like a good filler should. Black Dawge Filler takes up space, lets you load your cartridge with the charge you want, fill the brass casing to the right spot, and seat the bullet with a consistent, uniform pressure at the dimension needed for reliable operation in the chamber. Black Dawge Filler is completely consumed when the cartidge is fired, nothing is left but a bit of smoke, but who would notice that?

http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com/cgi-bin/bdstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=thispage&thispage=bd_filler.html&ORDER_ID=549835929