Anyone reload 25-35 Win?


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crazysccrmd
September 15, 2012, 07:16 PM
I recently picked up a Winchester 1894 in 25-35 and will be reloading for it. Does anyone have loading info for this caliber? I intend to use it for hunting black tail deer this season and zeroed it today with 117gr S&B ammo. From looking around online I've found Hornady 117gr round nose and Speed 100gr HP that look like they would work. I'm also open to using pointed tip rounds by loading one into the chamber and only one in the tube. Suggestions?

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john wall
September 15, 2012, 09:52 PM
Due to extreme case taper, heavy loads will give difficult extraction.

Load the 117 gr RN to about 2200 FPS or so and enjoy one of the most pleasurable of all calibers to shoot.

crazysccrmd
September 15, 2012, 10:22 PM
I don't plan to try maxing it out for high loads or anything, I have a 22-250 to play with when I want to sling lead at high velocity. I'm curious whether a pointed bullet will give better terminal effects on a deer or if sticking to the tried and true flat points is the best bet.

bubba15301
September 15, 2012, 10:48 PM
imr3031 powder

Clark
September 16, 2012, 02:16 PM
I could see that the Win 94 is very weak to take high pressure, but I could chamber an 1885 falling block in 25-35 I could have a powerful long range rifle.
I bought a new Uberti 1885 in 30-30 with plans to rebarrel it to 25-35.
I necked down some 30-30 brass, put a 25-35 barrel on a Mauser and did some high pressure experimenting.
It behaves just like Quickload predicted.
Then I found out that Townsend Whelen already did the 1885 25-35 thing a long time ago.
I gave up.
Then 7 years later in 2012 I had the idea this year to convert the 1885 and make my own new wild cat, the 257 Roberts Ackley improved rimmed.
I put a magnum bolt in a 257RAI Mauser and fired some hot rimmed 257RAI.
Now a Google search reveals someone else has already done exactly that in an 1885.
I am going to do it anyway, and shoot a deer with it in 2012.
I took the unfired 30-30 barrel off the 1885.

crazysccrmd
September 16, 2012, 02:33 PM
From taking a quick look at Hodgdon's online reloading data they list some 75gr loads getting up to anywhere from 2500-2900fps. Is the increase in velocity worth the decrease in bullet mass? Muzzle energy is actually pretty similar between the 75 and 117gr loads.

savanahsdad
September 16, 2012, 02:34 PM
there is a lot of loads on loaddata.com I just check , there are a few hundred on there

witchhunter
September 16, 2012, 06:30 PM
I have a couple of 94's in 25/35, these are great deer guns for short range. They are a lot of fun. One of my favorite loads is 28.5 gr. of Winchester 760 behind a 117 grain Hornady round nose. This is real close to the factory Winchester load. I would try to use only these bullets and not try to make this round (in this gun) do more than it is designed for. There are lots of other cartridges available that offer better ballistics. This round in this gun, carbine, holds 7 rounds and weighs less than 6 lbs. accurate enough for a deer in a forest situation. In my opinion it is perfect for that. shoot a factory type round in it and enjoy it. Sorry for the rant, but it is one of my favorite guns and caliber, I need to take it out next time and pop a few caps!

Offfhand
September 16, 2012, 07:10 PM
Quoted from above post:

"Due to extreme case taper, heavy loads will give difficult extraction."

This is an interesting comment. Why would extreme taper cause difficult extraction? Shouldn't more taper actually improve ease of extraction? Please explain.
Thank yo?

crazysccrmd
September 16, 2012, 08:49 PM
I have a couple of 94's in 25/35, these are great deer guns for short range. They are a lot of fun. One of my favorite loads is 28.5 gr. of Winchester 760 behind a 117 grain Hornady round nose. This is real close to the factory Winchester load. I would try to use only these bullets and not try to make this round (in this gun) do more than it is designed for. There are lots of other cartridges available that offer better ballistics. This round in this gun, carbine, holds 7 rounds and weighs less than 6 lbs. accurate enough for a deer in a forest situation. In my opinion it is perfect for that. shoot a factory type round in it and enjoy it. Sorry for the rant, but it is one of my favorite guns and caliber, I need to take it out next time and pop a few caps

That is the most likely course of action. It's an old 1927 so I don't want to risk damaging it, mainly just curious. Here in western Washington most hunts are in pretty wooded areas and shots over 150m aren't that common.

GooseGestapo
September 17, 2012, 08:40 AM
Those old Winchester M94's are plenty strong. Not a solid breach single shot, or bolt action, but plenty strong for what they were intended.

The issue with the cartridge is with the cases. The .25/35 evolved at the time smokeless powder was new. With black-powder, cases needed to be tapered with the relatively weak extraction system of the lever-actions. With higher pressures, the cases are forced back against the bolt and can tightly lock up the action if taken too far. The cases are relatively "thin" and as such will take a "set" to the bolt-face and chamber at a lower pressure and cause difficult/impossible extraction at a lower pressure than later/stronger case designs.

If you are "working" up a load, when you get to the point that the action is "sticky" to operate, you are at maximum. Reduce to point where the "stickyness" is tolerable or goes away.... (The new (circa 2009) Marlin .338MarlinExpress cartridge operates at the upper limit of "tolerance" by the Marlin M336 action. Factory ammo operates at this "stickyness" level, but is a stronger case design as well as barrel-threads and heat-treating of the reciever).

Even at ~2,200fps, the Hornady 117gr RN is designed to operate at this speed. It will expand down to around 1,600fps. As such, this is sufficient for this gun to perform as intended out to about 150-200yds which is as far as most shooters are capable of putting them into the vital area of a deer. The .25/35 is an excellent little cartrigde and when understood and properly utilized is a wonderful little deer shooter. The 87gr flat-nose may give a little better performance on deer if you shoot them in the heart/lungs with broadside shots, but for raking or lengthwise hits, the 117 will be much better. The 75's are much better for varmints... I'd avoid them unless if used for rodents. Also, some of the early Winchester M94 .25/35's had a two leaf sight. One is for the 117, the other for the 75-87's. There is a considerable difference in bullet impact with single sights.....Hence the general admonition to stick with the factory 117's speeds.

Winchester made a run of the .25/35 in the last year before they went out of business. (2008?). They were in the "Legacy" version w/24"bbl and excellent wood. If I ever run across one, I'll grab it up...

I've used the 117gr Hornady Spt from both the .257Roberts at ~2,800fps and the .257Wby at ~3,200fps. It kills deer like "lightning" from both and is suprisingly flat shooting, of course due to the velocities of these two cartridges. It is an "Interlok" bullet, so it doesn't "blow up" or come apart even at the speed of the Weatherby.

The 6.5's and 7mm's of the early 20th century operated at the same speeds as the .25/35 w/117's; and with 155-160gr bullets from the 6.5 and 170-175gr bullets from the 7mm's racked up an enviable record on large dangerous game.... The early 20th century hunters had different expectations and hunted, rather than shot....(vs. long range shooting of deer >200yds).

However, due to "prejudices and preferences", the .30/30 was the "darling" cartridge and following WWI, the .30/06 was the long range shooters choice, in a bolt action of course.... but, the .30/30 has an even better reputation in my "neck of the woods" now than it has had in the previous 50yrs.... Compared to the now popular .223 for shooting deer, it is a "heavy weight" heavy hitter.

Funny how perceptions change.......
Enjoy your .25/35.... The only one I've ever shot was in a T/C Contender w/14"bbl. Recoil was modest even in such a relatively lightweight gun.

john wall
September 18, 2012, 12:18 AM
What Goose said. The '94 is made to operate at around 42,000 PSI. Remember how long ago the gun was designed.

The 219 Zipper, 25/35, and especially the 30/30 were epochal rounds in a light lever gun. They were rocket science when they first came out, and STILL get the job done.

The '94 starts getting indigestion at 45,000 PSI. 50,000 PSI will stretch the action to an unusable condition in about 1000 rounds.

Ask folks who had their guns rechambered to 25/35 and 30/30 Ackley Improved how they know that. LOL

Tool_doc
September 18, 2012, 02:42 AM
Just join tonight. Great stuff. I bought a 25-35 saddle ring Winchester in 1988 for next to nothing. Some guy cut the ring off with a hacksaw , not realizing it unscrewed. Fortunately, he didn't touch the side plate. Posts like this encourage me to get some reloading done and go hunting.
Thanks, Tool_doc

powell&hyde
September 18, 2012, 04:19 AM
I also reload for my 94 25-35 win, here is a scan from my 3rd edition hornady book.

1KPerDay
September 20, 2012, 12:19 PM
Thanks for the info, everyone. I have an oooold .25-35 that is currently in non-working order. I hope to get it running at some point.

pics for those interested

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Christmas2007003.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Christmas2007004.jpg

crazysccrmd
September 22, 2012, 04:58 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions.

crazysccrmd
September 23, 2012, 02:40 PM
Well, couldn't find any IMR3031 locally so I loaded up some rounds with H4895 and BLC-2 that I had on hand using Hornady 117gr RN bullets. Hopefully next weekend I can get to the range and test them out.

crazysccrmd
October 13, 2012, 09:27 PM
. I also reload for my 94 25-35 win, here is a scan from my 3rd edition hornady book.


Have you loaded h4895? Your scan shows max 26.8gr at 2200fps. Hodgdons website shows max 22.5 at 2168fps. Large discrepancy there.

NCsmitty
October 14, 2012, 02:20 PM
www.hodgdon.com has a bunch of loads for the 25-35 Win, and the relatively new CFE223 powder shows a marked velocity increase at standard pressure. As mentioned, lighter bullets tend to be for varmints and rodents, and the iron sights do limit the range for any bullet used. H4895 is a good powder in many different calibers, and the BLC2 should be used with a magnum primer for best consistent ignition with that ball powder.
Have fun and be safe and kind to the old rifle.


NCsmitty

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