ruger sr1911 breach face


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JRWhit
September 16, 2012, 07:43 AM
Does any one have a SR1911? I'm curious because I noticed on the breach face opposite the extractor on mine there is one little section of it that is raised several thousandths of an inch higher than the rest. I notice , when inspecting brass , that it is leaving an indentation on the back of the cartridge after fired. This is on factory cartridges. The space where it's raised is in a spot where it looks like it could be a defect. The has not given me any problems as far as feeding an accuracy. It's been great for both. I'm just wondering if this is just on mine or all of them.

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Mr.Revolverguy
September 16, 2012, 08:02 AM
JRWhit,

I have not noticed it on mine and I am tickled pink of it. Only problem is within me having it for two weeks my daughter came home from college went to the range with me and fell in love with it. After all these years of shooting with me she has only laid claim to one other pistol and thats in 22lr. The problem with that is for these to be truly hers we have a promise that I would never take them to the range without her :( But she has to continue to make the Dean's List and she has so it has been a long time since I have had mine to the range since she is away in college.

But here are the original reviews I wrote of her SR1911
SR1911 In Ransom Rest (http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1660)

SR1911 Range Report and Pictures (http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1612)

1911Tuner
September 16, 2012, 08:20 AM
It's a machining defect, and it's one to be concerned about. The thrust generated by the equal force places a side load on the slide instead of straight back.

Send it back, and don't take NO for an answer.

918v
September 16, 2012, 08:29 AM
I had a Wilson CQB with that very same defect, except the indentation it left in the brass made it unreloadable. I sent the gun back and they stoned it flush, however when I got the gun back it now had .011" clearance between the end of the barrel extension and the breechface. When I emailed them, was told not to worry about it.

This was Wilson. I wonder what Ruger's response will be.

Mr.Revolverguy
September 16, 2012, 08:40 AM
Just pulled my daughters SR1911 out of the safe and carefully looked I do not have this raise. The breech face is fairly smooth and even.

The Lone Haranguer
September 16, 2012, 09:02 AM
Any kind of step or shoulder in that area, or being out of square, can't be good.

JRWhit
September 16, 2012, 09:12 AM
I'm waiting for a response from ruger. I guess the ladder could be that the larger section of the breach face is cut to deep vs the raised portion being cut to shallow.

JRWhit
September 16, 2012, 09:15 AM
Closer inspection of the brass shows that the primers are pushed out past flush due to the space created by the difference. Honestly I don't think I ever would have noticed this had it not been for reloading. Glad I caught it.

918v
September 16, 2012, 04:07 PM
How much clearance do you have between the barrel extension and the breech face when the barrel is in battery?

JRWhit
September 16, 2012, 07:04 PM
None, it sits against it. At least with what is seen with the naked eye.

918v
September 16, 2012, 08:15 PM
This is with the slide off the gun? If so then they didn't cut the breechface enough.

Walkalong
September 16, 2012, 09:14 PM
I notice , when inspecting brass , that it is leaving an indentation on the back of the cartridge after fired.I had two Kimbers that were like that. To me it looked like they did not finish the machine work. I fixed them myself, but it's tricky, and I don't recommend it. I still have one of them. It runs great, and doesn't mark case heads.

Send it back, and don't take NO for an answer.

Yep.

The pic is the Kimber Ultra II I fixed.

918v
September 16, 2012, 09:29 PM
Nice breechwork.

JRWhit
September 16, 2012, 10:16 PM
This is with the slide off the gun? If so then they didn't cut the breechface enough.
no that's assembled. sorry I was looking at the two fingers over the top of the barrel extension for the chamber view port. It makes contact but the rest of the barrel extension has a little gap.

918v
September 16, 2012, 11:27 PM
Take the slide off. Reinstall the barrel and bushing, and put the assembly up against a light source or use a feeler gauge. You should have some clearance between the breechface and the barrel extension, or the two fingers as you refer to it. Pull the barrel away from the breechface while it is locked up in battery.

1911Tuner
September 17, 2012, 06:12 AM
Why are we worrying with the barrel hood? The problem is the badly machined breechface.

WoodchuckAssassin
September 17, 2012, 06:50 AM
I just inspected my SR1911, and everything seems to be in order. Iíve never noticed any marks on my casesÖbut then again, I wasnít looking for anything. Iíve had nothing but good luck with my Ruger.

What problems could this defect create?

JRWhit
September 17, 2012, 07:27 AM
Here is what I'm calling the fingers. The top makes contact with the breach face while the rest maintain a gap. Think I'll leave the specifics to ruger. It's too new to try a home repair.


" well never mind, I can't get my picture to upload."

1911Tuner
September 17, 2012, 07:49 AM
What problems could this defect create?

It places a side load on the slide when the case slams into the breechface, and puts all the tensile stress on one side of the slide. The eventuality is that the slide will crack in the port...probably adjacent to the breechface...which isn't a good thing.

If they simply machine the defect out and make it even, it may create a condition of excess headspace...or not...depending on whether the surface of the defect or the surface behind it is to spec. They'll make that determination when they get the gun back.

Skylerbone
September 17, 2012, 11:26 AM
Headspace came up as 918v sent in a Wilson with a bad J Cut and received the pistol back with a noticeable gap between barrel hood and breechface. That won't of course provide proof of excessive headspace but does indicate that in that particular repair the entire breechface was resurfaced, assuming there was no gap before.

918v
September 17, 2012, 11:33 AM
Exactly. There was no gap. Wilson removed .010" of metal, reused THR same barrel, and told me not to worry about it.

My SR 1911 had some clearance there. The OP's Ruger prolly has some clearance already. It would suck if Ruger resurfaced his breechface and doubled the headspace.

I suggest you mark your barrel somewhere they won't notice before sending the gun back.

1911Tuner
September 17, 2012, 11:46 AM
Ah! Okay. So what we've got is that a repair was done on the cheap instead of actually making it right...assuming that it resulted in excessive headspace.

Interesting. Did you gauge the headspace?

918v
September 17, 2012, 01:03 PM
No, well not with a headspace gauge. But a 45ACP case would sit well below flush with the barrel extension. So I had that amount of headspace plus whatever they added by resurfacing the breechface.

My Pro has almost no clearance. And maybe .010" of headspace. Thank Goodness 45ACP brass is so short.

rduckwor
September 17, 2012, 05:36 PM
Had a S&W 1911 with the issue. Took it right back. Figured it might have been done to deal with the micro stamping issue under discussion at that time. RMD

JRWhit
September 17, 2012, 09:19 PM
Exactly. There was no gap. Wilson removed .010" of metal, reused THR same barrel, and told me not to worry about it.

My SR 1911 had some clearance there. The OP's Ruger prolly has some clearance already. It would suck if Ruger resurfaced his breechface and doubled the headspace.

I suggest you mark your barrel somewhere they won't notice before sending the gun back.
o.k. wait. I'm stupid.I got out the feeler gauge and finally realized what you meant. Their is about .008in clearance at this point between the barrel hood and the breach face when in battery. I'll take note of that and recheck when it returns. Thanks 918v. I hadn't thought of that. Hopefully head space won't be changed drastically.

1911Tuner
September 18, 2012, 05:28 AM
Hopefully head space won't be changed drastically.

It'll depend on the static headspace dimension as it is now and the thickness of the step.

Definition:

Static headspace is determined by the distance from the breechface to the chamber stop shoulder. This is fixed and only changes through wear or damage.

Dynamic headspace is the difference between the static dimension and the length of the case, and it changes from round to round unless all cases are trimmed to exactly the same length.

The .45 Auto cartridge has a pretty generous static headspace range. The GO minimum is .898 and the NO GO maximum is .920 inch...and most case lengths run to about .885-.890 inch...so you can wind up with an average dynamic headspace of nearly a 32nd inch and still be in the allowable range.

Headspace excess can come from two directions. If the chamber is just a little too deep, it's pretty much a non-issue as long as the firing pin can reach the primer and fire it reliable. If it comes from the rear...such as happens when lugs deform or the breechface itself is set back farther...it lets the case back up in the chamber. If it backs up far enough to lose chamber support forward of the case head...it can be serious problem.

Gauging the headspace only tells you whether it's within the allowable range...or not. If it's excessive, it doesn't tell you why. The gauges can show a condition of excessive headspace, and the gun can be perfectly safe to shoot...or not.

918v
September 18, 2012, 11:08 AM
I wouldn't want a pistol with .020" of headspace.

1911Tuner
September 18, 2012, 11:44 AM
I wouldn't want a pistol with .020" of headspace.

Take a .45 Auto with a mid-spec static dimension of .910 inch...which is about average for an ordnance-spec pistol...and factor in the average .45 case length of about .888 and you've got .022 inch headspace right there.

Even with a barrel hand-fitted for minimum headspace of .898 inch...with the average case length...you've got half of what you deem unacceptable.

Skylerbone
September 18, 2012, 01:28 PM
Tuner, you should preface posts like that with "Better grab a seat". ;)

asia331
September 18, 2012, 11:19 PM
Indeed I do. This is my second SR1911. The first I returned after the very first range session (post purchase) as the brass was being so badly mangled as to make them unserviceable for reload. This second pistol performs well leaving a small indent on the brass and now that you have pointed it out I do indeed see a very minutely raised portion of the breech face opposite the extractor.

Otherwise she's is a great shooter..

1911Tuner
September 19, 2012, 05:26 AM
Tuner, you should preface posts like that with "Better grab a seat".

Probably be better to write:

"Better sit down. You ain't gonna be happy with this one." :D

JRWhit
September 19, 2012, 06:59 AM
Spoke with a Ruger service rep, Told them about the damage to brass and protruding primer, They issued a next day delivery tag for return and a RA#.
We will see where it goes from here.

918v
September 19, 2012, 10:38 AM
Take a .45 Auto with a mid-spec static dimension of .910 inch...which is about average for an ordnance-spec pistol...and factor in the average .45 case length of about .888 and you've got .022 inch headspace right there.

This is the reality, yes, but I don't have to like it and my pistols don't have to reflect it. They don't.

Skylerbone
September 19, 2012, 11:27 AM
But a 45ACP case would sit well below flush with the barrel extension. So I had that amount of headspace plus whatever they added by resurfacing the breechface.

Sounds like at least 1 of your pistols might reflect it.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2012, 01:43 PM
This is the reality, yes, but I don't have to like it and my pistols don't have to reflect it. They don't.

In an autoloader, a little headspace is a good thing.

asia331
September 20, 2012, 12:00 AM
Think I'll drive over there JR and see if they'll take a look at mine as well.

klausman
September 22, 2012, 05:53 AM
Mine has the same mark on the breech face. My smith measured it as .006. I too noticed it from what it was doing to my brass, and sent it back to Ruger. It was promptly returned to me with nothing done. They said they fired 25 rounds and it worked flawlessly. This is true, except for the brass damage. The gun is currently at my smith who will remove the extra material and of course check headspace. His opinion was that it should not be a problem. :banghead:
Other than this, it appears to be a great shooter and a great value.

JRWhit
October 2, 2012, 12:09 PM
Got my Ruger back today:D They re surfaced the breach face to match and took care of the problem and sent me another 1911 for my troubles.Yeah twins.

O.K. that second part was B.S. But the raised portion of the breach face is now flush all the way across. Their is no measurable difference between the barrel hood and the breach face from what I noted before sending it in. Must say Ruger did me proud on this one. Good to have her back. They did send me a ruger cleaning cloth.

JRWhit
October 2, 2012, 02:33 PM
Just came back from the dirt mound. Shoots great, accuracy hasn't changed.
Now I'm gonna have to reload all the brass I just emptied.

Fishbed77
October 2, 2012, 03:42 PM
Great to hear.

Ruger CS is top-notch.

ultramag44
October 2, 2012, 03:46 PM
My SR1911 was fine from the box. All my Ruger's have been fine, w/o regard if I bought it new or used.

I'm glad Ruger stepped up in a timely manner and made it right! :)

klausman
October 2, 2012, 08:05 PM
That is really great that they fixed your gun. It really peeves me that they chose not to take care of mine. I think it is letter writing time. From other SRs that I have seen and some pictures posted on various sites on the net, this appears to be a fairly common problem. Is this the stuff of recalls?

klausman
October 7, 2012, 11:42 AM
Well, I wrote Ruger customer service a (nice) letter and sent it via email one morning last week. Within 3 hours I had a reply. They wanted the gun back so that they could make it right. On the Waaay! My smith still had it in the queue, so nothing had been done yet. We'll see when it gets back. Thinking positively.

JRWhit
October 7, 2012, 12:07 PM
Well, I wrote Ruger customer service a (nice) letter and sent it via email one morning last week. Within 3 hours I has a reply. They wanted the gun back so that they could make it right. On the Waaay! My smith still had it in the queue, so nothing had been done yet. We'll see when it gets back. Thinking positively.
Good deal, I had a feeling they would make it right, they must have misunderstood the problem the first run through. They had mine for about two weeks. Also in an attempt to stay in best graces with the tech,I sent a little bit of a but kiss letter with mine. Told em about all my rugers and how much I enjoyed them. Hope your back to shooting soon.

CoRoMo
October 17, 2012, 01:16 PM
http://tiny.cc/981bmw

klausman
October 17, 2012, 06:06 PM
Nice pic CoRoMo. That is what my slide looks like. Yours may be a bit worse, but it is hard to tell from a picture.

I got mine back from Ruger today. ..... No Joy.
To quote the customer service guy when I inquired, "The raised area on the breech face must be within factory tolerances." Meaning: they will not take care of mine. My smith will get out his stones or riffler files, and fix it. I think my SR1911 was beginning to get a little air sick.

CoRoMo
October 19, 2012, 10:19 AM
Tuner said not to take 'no' for an answer. Walkalong concurred. Whether Ruger could be forced to correct it? I don't pretend to know.

So klausman... how much will this breech work cost you?

Because I might have to take my slide to the same smith. :o

Skylerbone
October 19, 2012, 11:04 AM
Very often the breechface is addressed in a package deal labeled reliability tuning or similar. Before having any such work done make sure the smith both understands and has tooling to fix what's wrong.

Remember with value priced firearms there are often shortcomings but this is not an acceptable one. I had my smith correct one of mine after doing what I could to minimize it but there was no lack of trust in his skill before or after.

klausman
October 19, 2012, 05:44 PM
Hi Guys, I have no illusion that the SR1911 is a "value priced gun", and not a Les Baer Custom. It seems to me however that any competent maker can and should provide a smooth and FLAT breech face.
It is clear to me that when the slide was mounted in the CNC machine the two cuts were set at different depths, or the slide was mounted differently for the two cuts, leaving the "ledge" on the one side.
From the response I got from the customer service person it was clear that he and by implication Ruger was done with this issue. This appears to be true despite his insistence in his response to my letter that the problem would be taken care of.
I wonder if they are running the production line a bit too fast to keep up with demand at a cost to quality.
I am hesitant to mention names of others on a forum, but since I'm saying nice things, I'll give it a go. Please don't hold his or my feet to the fire for for it. Bart Miller at BassPro here in Denver has had a really fine reputation for many years. He has worked on other guns of mine. I trust that he knows what he is doing in this case (and with 1911s in general). The gotcha with gunsmithing, as with practically all precision work, there is a bit of artistry involved, and that takes time. Thus far, since taking delivery, it has been in the hands of others more that it has been in my hands.
In terms of $$$, Bart ESTIMATED that it would take between $45 and $65 to clean it up. Because I reload, I want the breech face flat, so that my brass doesn't get beat up so badly. I really don't think that is too much to ask, and I must be willing to pay for it.
For the record, I really like this gun,despite this particular problem. I really like all my Rugers. It is just a terrible disappointment that this event has occurred.

Walkalong
October 19, 2012, 05:54 PM
That is basically what my Kimber slide looked like. If you are handy with your hands and finishing metal, you can fix it yourself. Stay off the 90% that is OK, and only work on the high spot.... slowly.

There are a couple of other places there that need to be cleaned up.

CoRoMo
October 19, 2012, 06:06 PM
klausman... I don't suppose that your pistol was a Davidson's gun. They always come with a Lifetime Replacement Warranty (http://www.galleryofguns.com/about/terms.aspx).

Walkalong... might you be able to post some Brownells links to the type of tools someone should use on a repair like this?

If I can't get my way with Ruger, I might try my hand at this breech but I do know a good smith in my area.

klausman
October 19, 2012, 06:46 PM
I have pretty much used one dealer here in Denver for many years. they have taken care of me, and they have earned my loyalty with more than a good price.

I am the kind of craftsman who will saw off the end of the board 3 times, and it will still be too short.

That being the case, I leave this kind of thing to people with the expertise and experience. This in particular looks like something that can easily be made a very expensive hash of.

Skylerbone
October 19, 2012, 06:50 PM
I used a combination of sandpaper glued to popsicle sticks and a set of nail boards (manicure set). A soft jawed file to firmly hold the slide and a rest to steady your wrists/hands, good light and magnification all help but honestly the pro far outstripped my novice efforts.

JRWhit
October 20, 2012, 07:43 AM
Wow, I'm at odds as to why other inquiries were turned down where as mine was handled no questions asked. I would find it very plausible that production was rushed as that may account for the shortage of Rugers in gun shops.
I was told by three dealers that Ruger had stopped taking orders until they had met existing orders. This resulted in a scarcity for a while. I wonder if that decision was made due to quality issues on the rush of orders.
I know that in a one three month time span, one gun show I attended , over 100 venders, there was one of these Ruger's on almost every table. Very next show that came through, I was only able to locate two in the entire show. Other shops in my town were out of stock even including Bass Pro. When I asked about ordering they all told me that Ruger was not taking new orders and they could not say how long it would be for restock.

klausman
October 26, 2012, 06:15 PM
Well, that breech face is now flat. Bart did a tremendous job working in that confined space. He said he made a jig to make the next one easier and less time consuming to do. He also made the surface match, just like from the factory ... er well like it should have been. Kudos for a job well done!

asia331
October 27, 2012, 12:31 AM
Turned my SR1911 in on Monday; got her back today but then the plant is only 5 minutes away. Breech looks great. Very pleased with Ruger customer service. Reckon that's why so much of their hardware sits in my safe. Factory ran 35 rds of Black Hills 230 gr ball through her without malfunction. Looking forward to getting out to the range tomorrow and back in service as my EDC.

To be clear, function was never an issue; just damage to the brass per JRWhit's original post..

klausman
October 27, 2012, 12:41 PM
Same here. The function has always been flawless.

Skylerbone
October 27, 2012, 05:19 PM
The function has always been flawless.

I'm guilty of similar comments more often than not but remember, always worked does not equal flawless. With a new set of springs, with fair conditions, with correct lubrication is very different from what can be faced and knowing the platform was over-engineered to begin with and that the example is to spec. gets us closer to flawless.

For reference, Minnesota's I-35 bridge was well engineered and well constructed and worked for decades. When it failed, inspectors realized after all those years that the support plates used to tie it all together were not the ones specified but rather 1/2 as thick. They were always a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Good to see everyone taking a proactive approach because as Tuner stressed it is that important.

klausman
October 27, 2012, 08:51 PM
Well put comment. This is not an insignificant distinction, as you point out.

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