Is triple 7 really worth the ertra money


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pghrich
September 16, 2012, 03:48 PM
I just started trying out pyrodex in lieu of real black and so far i like it, but was just wondering if 777 is really worth the extra moey, is accuracy better? Can you wait longer between cleanings? What other advantages does it offer?, thanks pghrich

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robhof
September 16, 2012, 04:00 PM
Around here, tripple 7 and Pyrodes are close in price and real b/p is scarce, and since it's about 15% stronger than real b/p or pyrodex then yes it's worth the extra, as long as it's not more than 15% more in cost. As far as cleaning, it produces less residue and is supposed to be less corrosive than real black, but I clean all my guns after each session, so it's no different to me. Clean up is the same and relatively easy, with no noticeable sulphur smell, another plus.

Oldnamvet
September 16, 2012, 04:29 PM
Good for cap guns but won't go bang in flintlocks. I have also heard that it has a shelf life once opened. Another excuse to shoot more.

ridgerunner1965
September 16, 2012, 06:01 PM
i dont care for it. it does seem to work well but ive read many probs with shelf life. it is easily twice the price of real black powder around here so that and the shelf life suspicions keep me from gettin very excited about it.i use real black in both my inlines, my caplock and my roa pistol.

if you have trouble finding real black powder, look for some of the old mom and pop gun stores. often they will stock it for their regular customers. the big names like wal mart and bass pro wont in my area.

pghrich
September 16, 2012, 06:27 PM
Gander usually has it but limited supply, apparantly they are only allowed to keep 25lbs total stock in at one time, so sometimes i must wait a couple weeks for it to come in hence the reason for alternates, pghrich

351 WINCHESTER
September 16, 2012, 08:14 PM
777 all the way for me. It's easier to find, much less fouling, not nearly as corrosive as real black of pyrodex. Clean up is a breeze.

ColtPythonElite
September 16, 2012, 08:33 PM
I'll pass due to the cost...Of course I've been shooting for free for years. I have a buddy or two that won't use caps or Pyrodex two seasons in a row for fear of it going bad and spoiling the big hunt. I gladly take their left overs and have yet to have any not go bang.

rodwha
September 16, 2012, 09:45 PM
My father gave me a tin of Rem #11's, 2 lbs of Pyrodex P and 1 of RS that are ~15 yrs old and they go bang as well. Have they deteriorated? Not the caps. Couldn't say with the powder, but it hasn't failed.

Patocazador
September 17, 2012, 03:33 PM
777 is so filthy that I wouldn't buy any more of it even if the price was half that of black powder. That is my personal opinion ... and the only one that I consider.

CraigC
September 17, 2012, 03:47 PM
It is to me. It's all I use in my GPR.


777 is so filthy that I wouldn't buy any more of it even if the price was half that of black powder.
That's interesting considering that I've found it to burn A LOT cleaner than Goex, is easier to clean up and less corrosive. I've fired as many as 40-50rds in a session without running a patch down the bore.

72coupe
September 17, 2012, 05:46 PM
I like it. I only have 3 pounds though.

Lunie
September 17, 2012, 06:50 PM
I just started trying out pyrodex in lieu of real black and so far i like it, but was just wondering if 777 is really worth the extra moey,

In my opinion, not really.


is accuracy better?

Not that I have found, compared to black powder.


Can you wait longer between cleanings?

Possibly. It will depend on the circumstances, but there probably isn't enough of a difference to be excited about. (It really doesn't matter, in my opinion.)


What other advantages does it offer?,

I don't have the density info in front of me, but I believe that 777 is somewhat less dense than BP. When measuring both by volume, the one that is less dense will offer more "shots per pound", which could offset the higher cost.


thanks pghrich
It wasn't worth much, but you're welcome.

KevinR
November 9, 2012, 02:33 PM
One thing I can tell you about 777, dont compress the charge or
(Seat the Bullet Hard) your pressure will drop off.

Tried it, hate it, dumped a full bottle out in the gravel driveway.

CraigC
November 9, 2012, 03:28 PM
Triple7 was the first powder I tried in my new GPR because I could find it locally, rather than driving two hours to Dixie Gun Works. For obvious reasons, it's all I've ever used. It burns cleaner, fouls less and you can indeed go longer before cleaning. You can also do a hell of a lot of shooting in a session without swabbing the bore. I don't know that Goex wouldn't shoot as well but I really haven't had the urge to find out.

Three shots at 70yds.
http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/rifles/large/P1010036_1.JPG

MCgunner
November 9, 2012, 03:33 PM
Good for cap guns but won't go bang in flintlocks. I have also heard that it has a shelf life once opened. Another excuse to shoot more.

What WILL go bang in a flinter aside from BP which is outrageously expensive to order a couple of pounds of. Can't buy it at a store, so have to order it.

I have 777 on hand and Pyrodex. Just for paper shooting, I like Pyrodex. But, for hunting, 777 packs a lot more punch, really spices up my inline AND my ROA. I like it for serious applications, but shoot more Pyrodex than anything else and if I could buy BP economically in small lots, I'd shoot it due mainly to its ease of ignition, but I can't, so I won't, not for now. If I ordered 10 lbs of it it could be considered economical, but I don't really want the rest I haven't fired buried with me. :rolleyes:

I've yet to exceed the shelf life of 777 if it has one. I know APP's shelf life on the Texas coast is about a week. :rolleyes: I trashed that crap, but 777 is some good stuff in my inline. It's a little easier to clean up in the revolvers, but it's not like Pyrodex is a big deal to clean up, still gotta soap 'em up and rinse 'em with hot water just like I did with BP when I could get it.

BTW, for accuracy, I have NOT found that I can shoot 777 any more than BP or Pyrodex without swabbing the bore. It still fouls enough to throw off accuracy after several shots. It will also rust the gun just like BP or Pyrodex if left uncleaned.

MCgunner
November 9, 2012, 03:37 PM
One thing I can tell you about 777, dont compress the charge or
(Seat the Bullet Hard) your pressure will drop off.

I shoot full compressed charges in my ROA and it roars a 220 grain conical out near 1300 fps from a 71/2" barrel. Not sure where you're getting pressure drops off. If anything, it increases.

CraigC
November 9, 2012, 04:19 PM
It will also rust the gun just like BP or Pyrodex if left uncleaned.
Of course it will rust a gun, but NOT "just like" Pyrodex or Goex.

scheaman88
November 9, 2012, 04:20 PM
I personally love the 777 pellets and have not had any issues with shelf life at all. been using the same box for three years now maybe longer and never had a misfire yet. as long as you store it properly you will be fire. also it is very easy to clean up and makes range time better. i usually run a patch down the barrel after every three sots just cause thats my habit. As long as you clean up at the end of the day and dont leave it sit in the case for days before cleaning then cleanup is super easy. it usedd to take me more then an hour to clean up after a day at the range and i had to run patches after every shot with other powder pellets but the 777 is a dream.

raa-7
November 10, 2012, 11:19 AM
I havent tried the 777 yet,I,ve been using pyrodex,both RS and the P and works well.I will buy one lb. and test it out though.

wap41
November 10, 2012, 12:41 PM
I'll only shoot american pioneer powder in my ROA.I've used 777 and pyrodex but i like (white powder}APP much better.There is no residue build up so I can shoot 40-50 times without having to clean it and all it needs to clean up is hot water.

rodinal220
November 11, 2012, 09:22 AM
Im kinda funny,I run black powder in my black powder guns.That 777 stuff is a lil hot imho,probably better for a modern in-line shooter/gun than a real BP gun.

Driftwood Johnson
November 11, 2012, 11:14 AM
Howdy

Not to me it ain't.

First of all, I would like to address a misconception many of you are laboring under, the cohesiveness of real Black Powder. Real Black Powder is not as corrosive as most people think. I go through close to twenty, yes twenty pounds of real Black Powder every year in Cowboy Action Shooting. Contrary to popular belief, it was the combination of Black Powder AND corrosive primers that caused Black Powder fouling to be so corrosive. We don't use corrosive primers any more, so the fouling is not as corrosive as it used to be.

In point of fact, I seldom clean my firearms that I have shot with Black Powder the same day, I'm just too tired at the end of a day of CAS to clean two revolvers, a rifle, and a shotgun. I do try to clean them within a week, but I can tell you there are many times I have gone much more than a week before getting around to cleaning my guns. I am too embarrassed to tell you how long I have actually gone. When cleaned properly, after many days of sitting with Black Powder fouling, my guns come out squeaky clean with no corrosion.

Secondly, cleaning guns after shooting real Black Powder is not difficult. It is messy, but so is cleaning the subs. Any good Black Powder solvent, I use a home made mix, with plenty of water in it will clean BP fouling just fine. It actually requires LESS elbow grease for me to clean my BP guns than it does to clean my Smokeless guns with Smokeless fouling in them. Messy, yes, but it is not difficult.

Finally, everybody here seems to have missed the real advantage of both 777 and APP. They can be used with regular Smokeless bullets with regular Smokeless Bullet lube. When loading cartridges with real Black Powder, BP compatible bullet lube is required to prevent the fouling from hardening in the bore. I go through considerable work casting my own bullets for Black Powder cartridges and lube/sizing them with SPG. Having done all that work, 777 has no appeal to me, also it costs more than real Black Powder. But if you want to shoot cartridges and get lots of smoke, but don't want to go through the hassle of preparing your bullets, then both APP and 777 are the ticket.

MCgunner
November 11, 2012, 12:49 PM
First of all, I would like to address a misconception many of you are laboring under, the cohesiveness of real Black Powder. Real Black Powder is not as corrosive as most people think. I go through close to twenty, yes twenty pounds of real Black Powder every year in Cowboy Action Shooting. Contrary to popular belief, it was the combination of Black Powder AND corrosive primers that caused Black Powder fouling to be so corrosive. We don't use corrosive primers any more, so the fouling is not as corrosive as it used to be.

Loaned my '51 navy to a buddy once back in the day, a can of FFFG. He brought it back to me a week later froze up and lookin' like it'd been in the bay for a year. Yes, BP IS corrosive. I clean my front stuffers ASAP, no naps or relaxation until they're clean and oiled regardless of the propellant. The only thing that I leave uncleaned for a day or two is my smokeless cartridge guns. I burn smokeless in ALL my cartridge guns, but I don't shoot any games. Have done IDPA and IHMSA, but CAS never really appealed to me. I can't get past the dressing up like Hopalong and taking some stupid "handle"...fun to some, weird to me, I guess. :D Guess I'm not a "purist". Different strokes.....

Driftwood Johnson
November 11, 2012, 10:32 PM
Loaned my '51 navy to a buddy once back in the day, a can of FFFG. He brought it back to me a week later froze up and lookin' like it'd been in the bay for a year. Yes, BP IS corrosive. I clean my front stuffers ASAP, no naps or relaxation until they're clean and oiled regardless of the propellant. The only thing that I leave uncleaned for a day or two is my smokeless cartridge guns. I burn smokeless in ALL my cartridge guns, but I don't shoot any games. Have done IDPA and IHMSA, but CAS never really appealed to me. I can't get past the dressing up like Hopalong and taking some stupid "handle"...fun to some, weird to me, I guess. Guess I'm not a "purist". Different strokes.....

All I can tell you is I go through about twenty pounds of Black Powder every year. Have done so for close to ten years now. As I stated before, if I wait a while to clean my guns, they always come out shiny clean when I am done.


Perhaps you had corrosive caps 'back in the day', whenever that was. Or perhaps 'froze up' and corroded are not the same thing. Yes, leave a BP gun uncleaned for a while and it will bind up, but that is not the same as corrosion.

Pancho
November 12, 2012, 12:12 AM
I've been muzzleloading since 1964 and most of it done with bp but I'm not adverse to Pyrodex. I bought a lb. of T7 to give it a try cause I'm not stuck in the 60's but I've not used it yet because I'm put off by the "do not compress" thing. I've seated a lot of rounds over the years and that last bit before seating the round and compressing the powder can be a grey area depending on fouling and such.
What I'm saying is that I'm on the fence about T7 because I would prefer a powder that is not fussy about compression.

rodwha
November 12, 2012, 09:52 AM
This is straight from Hogdgon's website:

"Percussion Firearms: Select the proper charge from the loads listed in this brochure. Set powder measure as indicated. While holding the firearm vertically, slowly pour the measured charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex into the barrel. Seat the projectile firmly against the powder ."

Firmly suggests to me that it should be used in a similar manner as any other sub or BP. Mild compression is stated for use in cartridges.

I have emailed Hogdgon's for more detailed information since I have found such conflicting information on its use on the forums, but have never received a response.

MCgunner
November 12, 2012, 10:09 AM
Perhaps you had corrosive caps 'back in the day', whenever that was. Or perhaps 'froze up' and corroded are not the same thing. Yes, leave a BP gun uncleaned for a while and it will bind up, but that is not the same as corrosion.

Fiocchi...about 1974

Trust me, I know Iron oxide when I see it.

MCgunner
November 12, 2012, 10:15 AM
I've been muzzleloading since 1964 and most of it done with bp but I'm not adverse to Pyrodex. I bought a lb. of T7 to give it a try cause I'm not stuck in the 60's but I've not used it yet because I'm put off by the "do not compress" thing. I've seated a lot of rounds over the years and that last bit before seating the round and compressing the powder can be a grey area depending on fouling and such.
What I'm saying is that I'm on the fence about T7 because I would prefer a powder that is not fussy about compression.

It groups under 2" with a 385 grain 50 cal Hornady great plains in my CVA Wolf. Try it, it ain't gonna hurt ya. It don't group so well in my Investarms Cabela's Hawken Hunter Carbine for some reason, so I stick to Pyrodex RS in that one.

CraigC
November 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
The compression issue with 777 is not a big deal. Seat the bullet/ball firmly over the powder. Just don't spend two minutes packing it down. ;)

garyca
November 13, 2012, 08:33 PM
Always been a pyrodex select man for my inlines and traditionals - just tried 777 and I really like it. My range sessions are long and I found clean-up alot easier.

MCgunner
November 14, 2012, 04:11 PM
It does clean up easier, less goo. It will still corrode if you don't get it clean.

Noz
November 15, 2012, 09:46 AM
I, like Driftwood, go through a lot of real black powder in a years time. I loaded my 18th pound of FFg into 44-40 cases yesterday.
I also tend to leave my fired guns until the urge strikes me to clean them. A couple of years ago I had a pistol (1860 Army Pietta) go down at a shoot. I brought it home, repaired it and put it away. It laid from the 4 of November until our first shoot in March without being cleaned. No harm.
I bought a "pound" of 777 to try. Sold all but a few loads to someone that likes it. I found it to be very corrosive. Didn't feel right, didn't smell right and didn't flash right, didn't sound right and way too expensive.
If you can't get anything else then it's the right choice.

rodwha
November 15, 2012, 09:58 AM
This is what I like about it (7.5" ROA):

30 grn of 3F Goex gave a 255 grn conical 744 fps and 314 ft/lbs.
25 grn of 3F T7 gave that same conical 920 fps and 479 ft/lbs.

MCgunner
November 15, 2012, 06:35 PM
This is what I like about it (7.5" ROA):

30 grn of 3F Goex gave a 255 grn conical 744 fps and 314 ft/lbs.
25 grn of 3F T7 gave that same conical 920 fps and 479 ft/lbs.

Load it to the gills with 777 and it'll push a 220 grain conical to 1300 fps. Only problem is by the 4th round, the bullets are pulling on recoil. But, if I go hunting with it, I don't plan to have to fire a 4th shot. :D

Busyhands94
November 16, 2012, 11:42 PM
McGunner, maybe put a drop or two of Loctite on the conicals, that would also seal the chambers from moisture. But with 25 grains you are probably getting close to what a .45 ACP gets. With my 8" Remington, my 360 grain .44 bullets, and a nice hefty charge of Triple Seven you can shoot through a couple cinder blocks, Triple Seven is real good stuff with those heavy bullets. It's kinda like having Mike Tyson's fist come out of your barrel, sept' it's made of lead! :D

What charge are we talking here? 35-40 grains? It wouldn't surprise me that you can get those velocities. Cap and ball firearms are so under appreciated for defense. But a soft lead bullet at 1300 is quite nasty! At 900 FPS those 220 grain soft LRN bullets mushroom out really nicely. But at 1300 FPS you've got a VERY effective bullet my friend.

Busyhands94
November 17, 2012, 01:03 AM
Just curious, anybody chrono a full chamber of Triple Seven and a roundball? It wouldn't surprise me the slightest to see numbers like 1400, 1500 FPS.

Of course, for instance when I buy shotgun powder for handloading I always get 700X made by IMR. It's more expensive but it's hotter. Same logic could be applied to Triple Seven, more shots per pound but a tad more expensive.

My opinion? If it were cheaper I'd buy pounds of Triple Seven all the time. Clean burning, I've used it with great success in a .50 caliber rife, cap and ball .22's, .44 Remingtons, .32 S&W's, .38's 12 gauge, and 16 gauge bird, buck, and slug loads. It also lights up easy, no misfires at all in my experience. All in all, it's a VERY nice powder that does it's job VERY nicely. And when I've got my Remington loaded for home defense, you can bet I've got 30 grains of Triple Seven and a nice soft lead bullet in there.

I know that they say you shouldn't use it for cartridges, but it works fine. I have personally loaded .32 S&W's with Triple Seven, and I even had a friend handload some .38 Specials with it for me. Those were actually more accurate than factory loads from my Model 10, it seemed like I could hit anything with them. They were dirty compared to smokeless, but they did the job VERY nicely.

In the .32 S&W long and short it was a delightfully accurate and warm load. The barrel didn't jump too bad, and the accuracy was excellent.
The target was a tennis ball at about 20 feet, and I tapped it about 4 times out of 5. That's pretty good considering that I'm not like Black Hand Kelly when it comes to shooting handguns.

Right now I'm working on writing a book about useful firearms, various loads of interest, and some BP stuff. I've mentioned Triple Seven a couple times. When that sucker gets published lets hope I can buy all the Triple Seven I need! :D

Just my 2% of $1, YMMV.

MCgunner
November 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
What charge are we talking here? 35-40 grains?

Yes, filled to below the rim and fully compressed.

Once I get moved and get my shooting/reloading room/shop built and get my new Pact which I plan to order, I'll be set up to chornograph again and can try those round balls. :D My antique Shooting Chrony needs screens again, those original cardboard ones, and I've decided just to replace it.

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