Wary of carrying Cold Steel products?


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CHighfield
September 17, 2012, 12:02 PM
Is anyone else here wary of carrying their stuff? I just don't like the fact that they have videos of their products rending flesh on their website--I feel like it would be 100% used against me if i were to be brought to court after a self-defense situation.
kinda like a "hand load" versus a "store-bought self-defense" load ("He used that 'Handmade Devil Round' in his 'Black' 'Assault Rifle' to 'Murder' this 'Innocent Kid'")...
Maybe I'm just overly paranoid about having to defend myself and being in legal trouble afterwards...
Any other issues you guys could think of?

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lemaymiami
September 17, 2012, 12:36 PM
My only criteria for any blade is "does it meet its intended purpose", can I afford it, and will it provide a good length of service...

I've carried Cold Steel (and lots of other brands) but can honestly say that I've never seen one of their videos..... The good news about blades is that other than size or auto legal restrictions any legal problems will solely be based on whatever you actually did with that blade (and whether it was or was not justified under the circumstances...).

Maybe I have a different take on it than most. I always carried a very sharp blade every day as a cop for 22 years but they were never used for anything other than cutting seatbelts, clothing, or those heavy nylon handcuffs.... I stood ready to use a blade in self defense but never lost control of my primary weapons so I was never tested in that way.... The past sixteen years I've worked as a fishing guide and still carry a blade. It's augmented by several work knives all the way up to heavy curved fish cutting blades (a pair of scimitars by Forschner in the 10 to 12" size - Forschner calls them cimiters or breaking blades...). I just consider them tools of the trade but any of them would make great defensive weapons if required. As a matter of speculation I imagine that most offenders would probably not consider attacking a butcher with all their blades right there either....

glistam
September 17, 2012, 01:54 PM
I hear worries of this kind of thing a lot, and I think it's bunk. I read a lot of court transcripts and case law, and I have yet to see any usage of the knife brand's promotional material as evidence. Most never even say what brand it is, at most saying it is a "buck knife" or "like a buck knife" when all they mean is "one- or two-bladed folder with bolsters." Heck I've never even seen the design come into play, with the exception of arguing if the knife meets existing statutory or common law terms, such as a "dirk" or "dagger." And this was never used to swing the justifiability of a assault; it was only used to make a call on whether the carry was illegal.

The court wants to know what you did, and why you did it. They don't really care what you did it with other than it was "a folding knife," "a handgun," a pipe etc. Food for thought: the vast majority of edged-weapon assaults, robberies and homicides are done with non-folding culinary knives.

CHighfield
September 17, 2012, 02:17 PM
Thanks for the replies, guys.

@glistam,

I've never read any transcripts or anything, but I'm sure that would alleviate many of my worries on subject matter such as this. I do, however keep up with several of the decisions ultimately made in such cases. But yeah, that seems to help to know that they're mostly looking for legality of carry.

JoergS
September 17, 2012, 02:24 PM
Prosecution and lawyers will always find a way to let you look very bad. Use a home made weapon and they will say that you are obsessed with arms, use a kitchen knife and they will say you used a butchering tool against a person and so forth.

So you might as well carry what you like, and not give a rodent's backside about what they might say in court.

mljdeckard
September 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
You're overthinking it. Carry what you want.

hso
September 17, 2012, 05:01 PM
Maybe I'm just overly paranoid about having to defend myself and being in legal trouble afterwards

It isn't uncommon for someone to ask this question and the answer is that it probably won't be important amongst all the other issues if you successfully have to use a knife to defend yourself.

Blackhawk30
September 17, 2012, 05:32 PM
Newer CS knives are impossible to close.Way too much force has to be exerted on the lock.They changed the lock up area.

sgtstryker
September 17, 2012, 08:30 PM
I carried one of their Voyagers in 4'' for ten years, til the clip broke off, somehow..It was half serrated, did all I asked of it, tough knife. Now I carry the Recon 1, different locking method but so far so good. The Voyager rides in a pouch with a larger knife now.

Ehtereon11B
September 18, 2012, 12:14 AM
If you are in a situation where you are down to a knife to defend yourself, the after-action legal worries are the last thing on your mind. That being said I have heard some good things about Cold Steel, especially their push knives.

I carry a Kabar Large TDI knife on duty. If it ever came down to me using it I want it to always be there, be fast, and work. As long as you feel comfortable, carry whatever.

Deltaboy
September 18, 2012, 09:03 PM
If it cuts and keeps an edge it is a keeper my me.

ApacheCoTodd
September 18, 2012, 10:50 PM
I'm generally with the OP and don't like products that are presented/advertised in such a way as to potentially require an explanation for my association with the publicly presented attitude due to simply owning one of their products.

Or, I simply shy away from association with manufacturers who feel Cold Steelish advertising is a positive thing and choose not to be amongst their target customer base.

I'm mostly the same with any excessively bad-assedness marketing like the gratuitous use of skulls, cross-hairs and the like.

In the simple light of internet hypothetical outrage, it's easy to say the connections won't e made but we all know they can be and might as well be avoided ahead of time.

I remember trying in vain to dissuade a friend from naming his Rottweiler "Pain"... Boy did he live to regret that and so did the dog - for a while.

wheelgunslinger
September 19, 2012, 08:03 AM
I just don't sweat that stuff. I carry handloads and whatever blade I feel is up to the budget and job.
Court is a magical place where anything can happen. So, if I wind up there I fully expect to be railroaded since I can't afford a Johnny Cochran level of legal defense.

I would imagine some enterprising DA's office could seize your computer and sift through all your posts here and on other fora to find something incriminating that you've written.

IMO, just carry what does the job, makes you smile, and meets your budget. There's no way to predict what the lawyers will do to you.

jbkebert
September 19, 2012, 10:48 PM
I saw my first commercial for a cold steel product today. Couple that with internet ads and there is no way I would own their products. What a bunch of over-hyped extreame-shock ammo wanna be crap.

Just my take.

Clean97GTI
September 19, 2012, 11:30 PM
I saw my first commercial for a cold steel product today. Couple that with internet ads and there is no way I would own their products. What a bunch of over-hyped extreame-shock ammo wanna be crap.

Just my take.

So you don't like their ads.

Ever handled one of their products?

I guess Glock perfection is too snobbish for you and gold dots too bling bling?

Gryffydd
September 19, 2012, 11:39 PM
As long as you don't defend yourself with one of their products while wearing gym shorts, a dress shirt, and a tie that's too short you should be fine. :evil:

jman74
September 20, 2012, 12:16 PM
I'd be more worried about the horrible fit and finish on their folders that I've seen lately then I would be of their marketing scheme. Lynn Thompson is a marketing genius. He makes a TON of money marketing low to mid-range products to a specific target audience. Some Cold Steel stuff is nice, but it's usually not the products seen in his ads.

Certaindeaf
September 20, 2012, 12:22 PM
But you/we/me may well drive X car shown/advertised slaloming down the peopled boulevard at breakneck speed. One actually advises not to do this/it's illegal and the other shows/proves how well the tool works. What was the question/assertion?

jbkebert
September 20, 2012, 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbkebert
I saw my first commercial for a cold steel product today. Couple that with internet ads and there is no way I would own their products. What a bunch of over-hyped extreame-shock ammo wanna be crap.

Just my take.

So you don't like their ads.

Ever handled one of their products?

I guess Glock perfection is too snobbish for you and gold dots too bling bling?

Now that you mention it. Yes I have handled some of their knives and a couple of the spears. Granted I have not handled any of the high end steel products that they tout. My thoughts on the fit and finish of these products is that of something made in China. I looked at a kukri at a recent gun show. My lord I hope it was a factory second. The blade edge was burnished on one side. The grind was done by only the most highly skilled 10 year old they could find. For the money they ask for thier products I expect more.

2nd. Your right I do not own a Glock. Nothing wrong with glocks at all. A dang fine pistol by any standard. Fanboys however I can do without.

3rd. I do have a few boxes of Gold Dots. I use them for carry ammo in a couple of my wheel guns. However I have had cycle issues with them in a couple 1911's. So I switched to Winchester Rangers if I take a semi-auto along for the day.

MICHAEL T
September 21, 2012, 01:50 AM
I carry a XL Voyager every day . carried a large for around 10 years till the clip broke Then went to XL. I have several of his fixed blades as well .

Rexster
September 21, 2012, 12:20 PM
I owned some early Cold Steel fixed blades, which were of quite good quality, especially considering the price. As for folders, I have been relatively loyal to Spyderco since the early Police and Mariner models.

Anything sharp, and made of decent steel, can cut things. A video showing this is simply showing what any good blade can do. I am much more concerned about the buffoonery of Lynn Thompson being used to impeach my character, by implying I am a fan of his personality, and I am not even meaning in a courtroom, but in general. I have seen him at the Blade Show, too.

I don't like a person who insults folks as a way of trying to make himself look better. I found one of his broad-brush insults, published on his website, directed at another blade brand, to be personally insulting to me, because, yes, I, too, wear military-style boots. (Danner boots happen to be the only
non-orthopedic footwear that really work for my feet, and, moreover, military-type boots are nearly
ubiquitous among LE patrol personnel these days; I wear a badge for a big-city PD.) My consideration of a couple of Cold Steel purchases at the time, a stick and a fixed blade, were set aside after I read that. I will purchase products from those who do not insult military veterans and LE folks.

His website also pirated photo images from Karambit.com, without permission or
attribution. Of course, his Riposte articles masqueraded as editorials, which might give one more freedom to use images for editorial purposes, but they looked like advertising, to me. By the way, Lynn Thompson totally misunderstood the extended grip of the karambit, that he was trying to ridicule.

Sorry, I seemed to have vented a little much.

JShirley
September 21, 2012, 01:16 PM
I like Spyderco because they make good knives and have sterling business principles.

I don't like Cold Steel because some of their knives are crap, and I feel they are not always an ethical company.

Spyderco has agreed to make a knife Sam and I designed. If it's a major success, I expect to see a Cold Steal copy eventually.

John

JTW Jr.
September 23, 2012, 01:26 AM
I don't like a person who insults folks as a way of trying to make himself look better.

Indeed he is a real piece of work. Looking back to how he ridiculed and slammed the Karambit to be a worthless knife and spent a good bit of effort claiming it in-effectiveness , only to realize it was something he could make a buck on and then came out with one.

Cold Steel is an over hyped marketing and design company, not a knifemaking company. Nothing is made by them, all made for them. Which certainly explains their cheap feel to most of their stuff.

With that said , if that is all one wants is a cheap knife that is fine. But when I see someone carrying a $1200 handgun and a $20 knife. I do get a chuckle.

" as long as it cuts " - that's like saying as long as the gun goes bang that's good enough. For me , that is not good enough.

limpingbear
September 23, 2012, 02:07 AM
Ive used Cold Steel knives for years, and never had any real issues with them. When i lost the thumb stud off my small voyager i sent them a message asking how much to replace it and they sent me a new one, no charge. The videos they show are intended to show you how much abuse those blades can take and how well they perform in cuttting. Its like gun makers showing how accurate thier guns are.
Personally I like them....YMMV

Blade First
September 23, 2012, 01:52 PM
"...I expect to see a Cold Steal copy eventually."

I see what you did there...heh.

It's the price you pay for good design, John. Just ask George Kellgren.

...Mr.O

JShirley
September 23, 2012, 02:42 PM
Well, Ruger is known for their um, praise of others' designs.

Deltaboy
September 23, 2012, 04:33 PM
I love my Cold Steel Blackthorn cane! It is weather proof!

Mp7
September 26, 2012, 10:31 AM
Here in Germany i wouldn´t want to drive a BMW due to lotsa posing lowlifes
of various backgrounds typically misbehaving in that brand of car.

In a courtcase it´s still only a car, though.


(On the other hand, i really wouldn´t want my knife have "Smith & Wesson"
on it .. as that is clearly not tool - but weapon related.)

Madcap_Magician
September 26, 2012, 10:40 AM
I am not a fan of Cold Steel in general. I think they are overpriced for the quality of materials and craftsmanship (though some of their older knives are not as bad). Marketing and business practices are questionable. As already mentioned, they have a habit of taking other people's designs or features without crediting or asking the original designer or company.

The only thing where Cold Steel does well is their special projects. You just can't buy a boar spear from any other company.

Deltaboy
October 2, 2012, 10:14 PM
I have had my CS cane for over 5 years and it still looks great.

lobo9er
October 2, 2012, 10:43 PM
friend-o-mine has a carbon v master hunter. thats all I have to say about it really, looks stout and cut up a deer with out a problem. I personally am not interested in cold steel, their ads are just so rediculous, and who told the guy to ware those black shorts to cut hanging pork?

But I would like to add if I had a cold steel what ever and it funtioned as I am sure they most all do, I would carry it.

bikerdoc
October 3, 2012, 04:07 AM
I like Spyderco because they make good knives and have sterling business principles.

I don't like Cold Steel because some of their knives are crap, and I feel they are not always an ethical company.

That about sums it up for me.

kozak6
October 3, 2012, 07:09 AM
States and cities often have laws that differentiate carrying pocket knives and carrying weapons, and these laws tend to be short on definitions.

The president and founder of the company calling it a weapon, explaining how to use it as a weapon, and chopping up carcasses with it could make it difficult to argue that such a thing is actually just a pocket knife and not a weapon.

If you lived in an area with such flexibility in the law, and wanted to carry a Cold Steel product (especially for self defense), it might be something to be concerned about.

RatDrall
October 3, 2012, 09:55 PM
I won't carry a Cold Steel knife because it's Taiwanese, and there are plenty of better knives made in the US (Emerson, Benchmade, many Spyercos).

I use a CS shovel everytime I go camping, and keep one on the get home bag on the back seat of my truck for Winter emergencies.

mdauben
October 4, 2012, 02:55 PM
I read recomendations all the time suggesting not to use knives, guns, ammo or whatever with violent or unsavory names or marketing attached to them, for fear it will be used against you in court. I have to ask, can anyone provide an example of a case where such things were actually brought up and worked against the defendant? I'd like to think that a SD case would be judged based on the facts, not that the gun or knife used was called the "death-killer-9000" but who knows?

Mikhail Weiss
October 4, 2012, 11:18 PM
Wary of carrying Cold Steel knives? No. I think that fearing legal issues regarding the type of knife you may use to defend yourself, should you ever need to do so, is to fear an exception to the rule.

I have a medium-sized Japanese-made Cold Steel Voyager with AUS 8 and a large one of the same model (not sure where that one was made), with VG-1 steel.

I like them primarily because they're light and they cut stuff. They're okay knives, but these days I mostly tote the bigger one while jogging or biking. A Spyderco Tenacious seems to take up pocket space most of the rest of the time.

As to the videos, I never saw one till years after I owned my second of two Cold Steel knives. Here's how I came to own that second one: I broke the molded plastic clip off the first medium-sized Voyager I owned and Cold Steel sent me a brand new knife as a replacement. Then they mailed me one of those “proof” videos. I thought it was amusing, but ultimately boring. Look! This knife cuts stuff! No other knife can do that! Not like this! So I reckon that's my only issue. :)

Rob0321
October 5, 2012, 01:24 AM
The only CS knife I own is a Hatamoto, and it is far too big to comfortably carry on a daily basis.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/Rupert999/P5240004.jpg

glistam
October 5, 2012, 11:00 AM
I read recomendations all the time suggesting not to use knives, guns, ammo or whatever with violent or unsavory names or marketing attached to them, for fear it will be used against you in court. I have to ask, can anyone provide an example of a case where such things were actually brought up and worked against the defendant? I'd like to think that a SD case would be judged based on the facts, not that the gun or knife used was called the "death-killer-9000" but who knows?

It has been my experience that this has never occurred or so rarely that it never even made the news. In all SD cases I have read, it was about the circumstances, not the weapon. Besides, if a prosecutor tried to pull this kind of stunt by showing the jury the Cold Steel marketing videos, a savvy defense attorney could make his own parody video using something absurdly mundane and non-threatening (like a paring knife or screw driver) doing the exact same kind of damage.

Certaindeaf
October 5, 2012, 11:20 AM
I got a carbonV Trailmaster a very long time ago. Years ago, I shot 1000 sintered iron 9mm into a bull pine tree (I wanted it down so hey). It was a nice swarm/group and they were all still right in there. I chopped that tree down with that knife, through the swarm.. cleaving gobs of slugs. It still shaved hair. I like that knife.

Schneider
October 7, 2012, 01:51 AM
The only desirability of a blade over a gun is it doesn't alert the whole world to where you are and what you're doing.

I feel like it would be 100% used against me if i were to be brought to court after a self-defense situation.

If there were no witnesses to my victory, would I turn myself in? Hell no. An ingrate or a fool would squander such a blessing.

If there were, then my defense has corroboration. No worry.

plumberroy
October 9, 2012, 03:41 PM
I carry a cold steel pocket bushman it is by far the easiest carrying big knife I have had my hands on. It also locks up stronger than lockblades costing ten times as much and is stronger than some stick tang fixed blades . the fact that you can switch the pocket clip to lefty is a plus too . It is nothing more than a tool and I usually have better tools to use as weapons with me Th Big klien screwdriver or 12" cresent wrench I carry around at work is a far better weapon than that cold steel throws better too!!

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