.30-30 coal q


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SSN Vet
September 17, 2012, 02:13 PM
Well after all these years, I'm finally trying out GooseGestopo's favorite .30-30 load with 35 gr of RL-15 under a 150 gr jacketed FN or SP.

Points of reference....
> Alliant lists 36 gr as the max. load with a min. COAL of 2.525"
> I'm getting very accurate powder drops withthe Lee Pro Auto disk (two 1.26 cc disks double stacked)

I'll be trying the load out on three different bullets that I already have:
>Rem. 150 gr. Core Lokt SP
>Win. 150 gr. FN
>Spear 150 gr. FN

I set up and started last night with the Core Lokt and quckly ran into a concern, as the crimp groove on these bullets is much farther forward than either the Win or Spear.

And the powder charge is filling the case right up to the bottom of the neck.

My best mesurement with the tail end of a caliper, shows that the bullet, if seated to the crimp groove will still have ~30-50 thousandths clearance to the powder. So I dont think I'm going to get into a compressed load situation if I do this.... BUT... I will end up with COAL of only 2.5"

I went ahead and loaded ten, seating them to 2.52" and the trimmed brass comes just up to the bottom of the crimp groove.... but does not allow the crimp die (I'm using the LFCD) to pinch the neck into the groove.

Thoughts on seating these down to 2.52" or 2.50"

I'm not trying to push the world speed record, just trying to replicate a load that others have had very good results with.

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rcmodel
September 17, 2012, 02:18 PM
Seat to the crimp and call it good.

I don't even measure 30-30 OAL because unless you have the exact same bullet used in the data, the OAL will never be the same.

RL-15 is slow enough I don't think you could get in trouble with it if you tried with 150 grain bullets.

rc

SSN Vet
September 17, 2012, 02:34 PM
So no concerns about being close to published max and close to compressing the load??

x_wrench
September 17, 2012, 02:36 PM
for what it is worth, 36 grains of Reloder 15 is the ONLY moa load i have ever shot from my Marlin 336. and i have been looking for a load like that for a long time. P.S. i load to 2.550".

rcmodel
September 17, 2012, 02:44 PM
Thoughts on seating these down to 2.52" or 2.50"Just an afterthought, but have you trimmed the brass?

(2.039" MAX - Trim-Too = 2.028".)

Untrimmed 30-30 mixed brass in my stockpile have more length variation then any other caliber I have ever reloaded.

Long cases make matching the cannelure to published OAL impossible.

rc

steve4102
September 17, 2012, 03:20 PM
Nothing wrong or danerouse compressing the charge as long as there is data to support the charge. Compressing is preferred by many. Compressing powder in itself does not increase pressure.

SSN Vet
September 17, 2012, 03:27 PM
Yes, I'm trimming the brass...

Most have already been trimmed and reloaded just once since, so they're just touching the cutter with no burr thrown.

But I got range pick up brass mixed in, so I just tumbled them all together and will take the trouble to trim them again.

I'll pop off my first ten and evaluate the recoil, report and signs of over pressure.

I've pulled the scope and went back to a Williams FP on this rifle (yes it's a 336) and I can't tell you how much more I enjoy shooting it. This rifle just wasn't meant to be scoped.

My only problem now is that the Williams Fire eye front sight is a little too large in diameter to really do much by the way of precission marksmanship at 100 yds, as it totally covers a 3" diameter target.

targetback
September 17, 2012, 05:09 PM
With open sights put the front sight under the target bull so you can see the the bull and sight it in from there .

popper
September 17, 2012, 05:27 PM
Just use the FCD to remove any flare on the mouth. You can single load them so a crimp isn't needed. I use a scope when working up loads as it makes the POA more accurate. My eyes can't get MOA POI with iron sights @ 100.

res7s
September 17, 2012, 05:34 PM
If it works as well as a case full of 4350 you should be very happy.

gamestalker
September 17, 2012, 06:07 PM
Compressed charges of slow burning powder as per application data is not a concern what so ever. Nearly all of my loads, for nearly everything I load is a compressed charges according to published data. As for OAL with regard to high powered rifle cartridges, it means very little in terms of pressure issues unless you are up close and personal to the lands. If we were talking about AL handgun cartridges, there would be a different pressure concern.

GS

SSN Vet
September 18, 2012, 09:47 AM
loaded up another small batch at 2.50"

Core Lokt bullet are actually very uniform.

I'll switch over to the Winchester and Spear bullets tonight and then hopefully, try them all out on Sat.

FROGO207
September 18, 2012, 10:54 PM
I use IMR 3031 and crimp to the cannalure with the 150 and 180 grain projectiles. Takes a little time to work up an accurate load but it is worth the effort IMHO. Neither loading is at or near max grains for accuracy BTW.

blarby
September 21, 2012, 08:05 PM
When I stopped loading for my 30-30 because I sold it, I was still using the bullet I tried and found the best- Sierras 150gn FN.

Occasionally, Rocky Mountain Reloading gets a 150 that gave remarkably similar performance.

Those corelokt bullets are trash, IMHO- I tried to get them to work really well multiple times, and gave up. They function. They go bang. Thats about the end of the performance angle.

I like your direction so far, but very seriously implore you to try the sierras before you finish your testing.

mr16ga
September 21, 2012, 11:33 PM
High load density is a good thing. Even some compression is not bad. Much better than a case only half full.

I get far better groups with 90% to 100% load density.

I do agree that IMR 4350 is good powder. Used it for .243 Win to .375 H&H with good results. However don't use it for use in a M1 Garand - it will give you high gas port pressure which causes the bolt to slam back too hard.

JLDickmon
September 22, 2012, 12:01 PM
just for what it's worth, IMR 3031 in the 30-30 is the only IMR powder I use..

30 gr of 3031 under a 150gr Sierra flat point is all that's ever been through that rifle since Dad passed..

mcdonl
November 20, 2012, 08:39 AM
Great thread. I struggled with this last night. In my case, I am looking at loading for a savage bolt action, using Hornady 150GR BTSP projectiles over IMR 3031.... I have a few problems... 1 the difference in loads from the Lee Die insert to the Lyman manual is so great the max of Lyman does not meet the minimum from the Lee insert. I went with 28gr to err on the side of safety.

As far as OAL I went with what would feed from the magazine but I am not sure how this will play out as for as ogive goes. More research, but I hope to find out Turkey day at the 3rd Annual Redneck Rendezvous (AKA dinner at my house).....

SSN Vet
November 20, 2012, 09:48 AM
3rd Annual Redneck Rendezvous

I really do need to put up a backstop for shooting handguns out back... then I could host one of these :)

But with the Rod 'n Gun just 2 miles down the road... and the one neighbor squaking, I haven't gone there.

mcdonl
November 20, 2012, 12:18 PM
I really do need to put up a backstop for shooting handguns out back... then I could host one of these :)

But with the Rod 'n Gun just 2 miles down the road... and the one neighbor squaking, I haven't gone there.
Im about 1 mile from the Hardscrabble Pits in Hollis so we just go there. It is nice because it is a game preserve that allows shooting so we do not need to worry about messing up the Turkey day hunters.

My biggest problem leading me to this is that the savage I have does a terrible job cycling the flatnose rounds I have for my 336. I purchased a new magazine from Brownells and that helped a little but I am hoping the BTSP's help even more. It is a great 100 yard gun, and just feels nice.

SSN Vet
November 20, 2012, 01:26 PM
Didn't you tell me a long time ago that the Nat. Guard did excercises up there.

I was passing through your neck of the woods last week on my way home from Naples.

What model is your Savage? 11?

Walkalong
November 20, 2012, 02:38 PM
I trim my .30-30 cases to 2.030, seat the 150 Gr Core-Lokt to the canellure, and crimp into the canellure which gives me an OAL of about 2.480.

36 Grs of RL15 and a Winchester WLR primer matches the factory velocity and shows absolutely no sign of pressure with good case life.

mcdonl
November 20, 2012, 03:50 PM
Didn't you tell me a long time ago that the Nat. Guard did excercises up there.

I was passing through your neck of the woods last week on my way home from Naples.

What model is your Savage? 11?

Oh they do, it is quite a rush when I go trouncing in with my guns and they bring helicopters. But, I have never needed to use my big boy voice with them :)

It is a 340 (Re-Branded by Sears..... 70's vintage maybe?) one of those guns I should have given up on but it is too much fun.

FROGO207
November 20, 2012, 09:58 PM
Both my brother and I have a Savage 340. They are great rifles. I am using REM 150 GR Cor-Loct bullets mostly and seating them to run in the MAG. I do not crimp my pointed bullets and they feed well that way in both rifles as well as accurate. Or I do crimp them at the cannalure and single load as they will not run in the Mag that way. I use IMR 3031 and do not remember how much but it is just above the starting load due to the smaller volume available in there when I do not crimp IIRC.

ArchAngelCD
November 21, 2012, 01:26 AM
I trim my .30-30 cases to 2.030, seat the 150 Gr Core-Lokt to the canellure, and crimp into the canellure which gives me an OAL of about 2.480.

36 Grs of RL15 and a Winchester WLR primer matches the factory velocity and shows absolutely no sign of pressure with good case life.
Do you know of any other factory duplicates using another powder?

I have on hand IMR3031, IMR4895, IMR4064, LVR, H4895, H335, H4198, Varget and H4350. (I think that's all of them right now lol)
I have WLR primers, CCI200, CCI250 and CCI BR-2 primers on the shelf too.

As you can see I only have Hodgdon/ IMR/ Winchester powders on my shelf but not because I don't like Alliant, Accurate or Ramshot but because they are not readily available where I live.

mcdonl
November 21, 2012, 07:00 AM
Frogo, good to see your name. How you been?

I loaded the same way, to run in the mag... they are slightly longer. I used 28gr of IMR3031behind the Hornady 150 BTSP..... I will find out tomorrow how they cycle and shoot. I will also be sure to dig a few out to see if they are expanding.

Walkalong
November 21, 2012, 07:43 AM
Do you know of any other factory duplicates using another powder?Not of the few I have. Close, but no cigar staying within published data. I haven't tried H335 yet though. I quit when RL15 got me where I wanted to be with good enough accuracy. Around an inch at 100 yards in my Winchester 94. A little under, a little over, but hovers around one inch. Factory didn't do any better.

mcdonl
November 30, 2012, 08:10 AM
Frogo, good to see your name. How you been?

I loaded the same way, to run in the mag... they are slightly longer. I used 28gr of IMR3031behind the Hornady 150 BTSP..... I will find out tomorrow how they cycle and shoot. I will also be sure to dig a few out to see if they are expanding.

Well... I was getting decent results from the 150BTSP at 100 yards but the gun was still being a real weed in regards to cycling the rounds. I needed to do a lot of filing on the Brownells replacement magazine to get it to seat properly. Now it seats ok, but the cartidges still come up at a funny angle so I am going to try to adjust the magazine mouth. AND... the rounds we just a little too long still as they tended to catch due to the sharp angle.

I will hopefuly update with pictures and data after this weekend. Or, I will be getting rid of the gun.

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