Moss SPX vs. Rem 1100 Tactical


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Vector
September 20, 2012, 10:39 PM
I was talking with a shotgun clay shooting champ today, and he had a distinct recommendation between the two.
For a tactical semi-auto, which one is better, and why?

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Virginian
September 21, 2012, 07:00 AM
I really think it's just whatever you prefer. You can argue technical details but I haven't seen any of them be prone to failure unless someone was adverse to cleaning them. Whatever Tom Knapp used to break 9 hand thrown clays or shoot wild ducks behind his back is irrelevant to me because the gun has never been made that I could do either with.

Vector
September 23, 2012, 12:53 AM
It seems as if the Rem is a 2 to 1 favorite over the Moss so far, but not many are giving a reason why?

Virginian
September 23, 2012, 07:16 AM
Opinions are free. Rationale costs extra. :)

eastbank
September 23, 2012, 08:00 AM
i shoot my 1100 rem,s(5), at clay games and field hunting and i clean them at 600 rounds and spray a little super lube between the 600 round cleaning and they run with out jams. i also shoot two 11-87,s, a light weight and a turkey and treat them the same, with the same results. it seems the o/u shotguns are takeing over the clay games and i have a few and use them,but i do like the auto,s. i have never shot the mossy auto,s,but i have friends who have them and they are not realy satisfied with them. eastbank.

CTGunner
September 23, 2012, 07:39 PM
Why not a benelli m2?

wow6599
September 24, 2012, 09:54 AM
I wouldn't buy anything from Cerberus/Freedom/Remington right now. Quality hasn't been the same with Remington since they sold out a few years ago. Not sure about their other holdings (Bushmaster, DPMS, H&R, etc.), but these aren't your daddy's Remingtons........

Same goes for Marlin (Remlins).

XTrooper
October 5, 2012, 07:59 PM
My experience: I've owned my Mossberg 930 SPX since November 2007 when I bought it new. I've been to numerous schools with it, use it when I'm instructing shotgun courses, and have hundreds and hundred of rounds through it from cheap, Walmart target loads to maximum and low recoil tactical 2 3/4 loads (I don't fool with magnum loads except in my hunting guns).

It has never let me down and is every bit as reliable as shotguns that cost over 2X what I paid for it. I've shot them all.

P.S.- If I were going to buy a Remington tactical autoloader, it would definitely be their new Versa Max and not an 1100.

http://xtrooper.net/Mossberg_body_armor.jpg

siglite
October 6, 2012, 02:54 PM
From what I've seen, the 1100s tend to be ammo finicky, and the 930s are developing a reputation for running anything. My 930 is still new-ish, and I don't have a metric ton of ammo through it yet, but it's been flawless so far with anything I've run through it.

checkmyswag
October 7, 2012, 12:16 AM
The sights on the mossberg are really awesome.

XTrooper
October 7, 2012, 06:14 AM
The Mossberg sights are great. The red fiber optic front sight is easy to see and the LPA rear is the same rear sight found on many high-end shotguns (Benelli and FHN use LPA).

The early SPXs had a problem with the front sight not being tall enough (mine included). When I first tried to sight-in my SPX at 50 yards with 1 oz slugs, I discovered that, with the rear sight bottomed out, the POI was still about 2 feet above my POA! Not good! :D To Mossberg's credit, they fixed the problem by raising the front sight with a taller base.

I've since removed the rear sight on mine. I now use Burris FastFire III red dot sights on all my shotguns and, if they fail, I can use the white post painted on the base of the FastFire in combination with the front sight. This combo shoots a little high at distance, but not enough to be a real issue. You can "sort of" see the FastFire III in the picture above. They are FANTASTIC!

C0untZer0
October 8, 2012, 12:12 AM
The 930s come in so many configurations they've got something for everyone.

The Versamax Tactical and 1100 Tac 4 both come with 22" barrells - that's it.

Mossberg offers the Jerry Miculek Pro Series Tactical Class with choice of 22" or 24" barrel, 9 or 10 shot capacity, and fiber optic front sight.

You can get the SPX 18" barrel with or without pistol grip, 8 shot, 5 shot, Ghost Ring Rear Sight, M16-Style Front Sight, bead front site, get the combo with interchangeable 18" & 28" barrel. There's so much stuff compared to the Remington.

And it's half the price - what's not to like?

Stevie-Ray
October 8, 2012, 09:35 PM
I'd have to go withy the 930 SPX because I did just that. Been almost 2 years and I love it. Wish I could get more time with it-with any guns for that matter, but it has been a great shooter with everything from light target to my favorite 00 buck loads, and is supremely accurate at HD distances.

Bushpilot
October 9, 2012, 05:49 PM
I wouldn't buy either for a "tactical" shotgun. If there is ever a time when you need a shotgun to "work" it is for the purpose you have in mind. There has never been an auto shotgun made that is as close to being 100% reliable, regardless of the conditions, with a variety of ammo, as a good pump and as long as your arm works there never will be.... I know that my 1100 on it's best day isn't nearly as reliable as my Rem 870 or my Mossberg 500 and I seriously doubt that any other auto, let alone one made by Mossberg, is as reliable either...

XTrooper
October 9, 2012, 06:37 PM
I wouldn't buy either for a "tactical" shotgun. If there is ever a time when you need a shotgun to "work" it is for the purpose you have in mind. There has never been an auto shotgun made that is as close to being 100% reliable, regardless of the conditions, with a variety of ammo, as a good pump and as long as your arm works there never will be.... I know that my 1100 on it's best day isn't nearly as reliable as my Rem 870 or my Mossberg 500 and I seriously doubt that any other auto, let alone one made by Mossberg, is as reliable either...
You know, I keep hearing this from some, but it must be people that have no experience with the latest generation of shotguns because this opinion (though spoken like it's fact, as in this case), is simply NOT supported by the facts. The reality is there are a number of modern semi-automatic shotguns available today that are every bit as reliable as any pump shotgun and they have distinct advantages. I see this in every shotgun school I'm either attending or teaching. The semi-auto guys wipe up the range with those operating pump guns and make believers out of them. That's the truth of the matter.

I'm old enough to remember hearing the same hogwash when we in the police community started moving away from revolvers to the semi-automatic pistol. Doom and gloom! Well, we see the end result of that one. There are now a plethora of absolutely, 100% reliable semi-automatic pistols to choose from today and the revolver has all but disappeared from police work.

If you want to develop an informed opinion on the state of the modern semi-automatic shotgun, you can't do it by relying on experiences gained from a shotgun that has a 50 year old design. That's right, the Remington 1100 was introduced in 1963. It's not the best choice to build a relevant opinion with. Want some solid evidence of how reliable the modern semi-automatic shotgun is from people who actually test and use them, sometimes under the worst of conditions? You need look no further than the United States Marine Corps which is well on its way to replacing its whole inventory of pump shotguns with the Benelli M4 semi-automatic shotgun. That's as good as an endorsement as you can earn, in my book.

http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli-m4.php

siglite
October 9, 2012, 06:43 PM
On the reliability issue, I tend to agree with you xtrooper. My experience hasn't been great with the 1100, and thus far has been very good (both in personal experience and observation) with the 930. But I agree with you on the auto-v-pump thing.

Most folks who make infallibility claims of pumps probably haven't been to a big 3gun match. Because if you go to one, you'll see pumps fail. (To be fair, you'll see autos fail too.)

Bushpilot
October 9, 2012, 09:23 PM
XTrooper.. I said pumps were more reliable than autos and I'll stand by that. I didn't make any claims about which are faster.. I said I would choose a pump because they work, always. You mentioned facts, well, show me your "facts," that go beyond your opinions.. Cite a reliable, impartial source that demonstrates through testing that any auto shotgun, let alone the two autos that the OP mentioned, the 1100 and the SPX, are more reliable in adverse conditions, with a variety of ammo than a top quality pump. Don't just cite the Bennelli advertising and marketing on their webpage. The Joint Service Combat Shotgun Program didn’t compared pumps and autos. Any one who thinks that a Remington 1100 or Mossberg SPX (OP’s choice not mine) is going to be as reliable as a pump has never had an auto in any truly adverse conditions. Adverse conditions are not just running around a course at a shotgun training seminar. I see autos malfunction every week. A malfunction in any decent pump is a somewhat rare thing…

Bushpilot
October 9, 2012, 10:50 PM
Hey XTrooper, I guess if there is a chance you might get into a fight carrying your SPX you better pick a nice, clean, warm place for it……. and bring a cleaning kit...

Here is an excerpt from the Mossberg 930, 935 and SPX manual:
"To ensure optimum performance, Mossberg recommends thorough cleaning of your
firearm after every 200 rounds. However, unusually dusty, dirty, or harsh weather
conditions, or use of ammunition which leaves significant powder residue may
require more frequent cleaning.

Over-lubrication should be avoided during below freezing conditions. Many
lubricants thicken in low temperatures which could affect the operation of the
firearm."

I don’t recall ever reading anything like that for my 870…

XTrooper
October 10, 2012, 07:46 AM
I'm not going to get into any silly arguments with someone who obviously has no experience with the shotguns he "thinks" can't possibly be as reliable as his Remington 870. In the real world, through real experience, I have proven to myself and others, that a number of currently manufactured semi-auto shotguns are every bit as reliable as any pump gun. If you wish to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative and loss. Best of luck to you.


A few ending points to the other members reading this thread:

1. During the last school I attended which was just last month, we had one failure out of the 19 shotguns being used. It just happened to be a new Remington 870. The main problem was that the follower was hanging up and not lifting the next shell for loading. Another issue was that its XS front sight fell out of its dovetail. This isn't a condemnation of the 870, just proof that they aren't infallible. I have decades of trigger time behind 870s, more than any other shotgun made, and they're great, but nowadays I only use my Remington Express Tactical 870 # 81198 as a backup to my 930 SPX. Why do I trust my life to the 930? Because it's never, ever let me down and, yes, it's been shot in all kinds of weather. Further, my duck hunting 930 has been used in every weather condition imaginable: rain, snow, sleet, and freezing rain, and it too has never failed. If it did, I wouldn't own it. I have, on numerous occasions, fired between 200-300 shells through my 930 SPX without cleaning it and with no adverse effect. That's good enough for me.
2. If you don't know you need to keep your gas-operated firearms clean, it's time to sell them. Try not keeping your M16 clean and see how that works out. NEWSFLASH: You need to keep your autoloaders clean to keep them running reliably! Who knew?! :D
3. Lastly, does anyone seriously think the Marine Corps didn't test the Benelli M4 for reliability and didn't compare its performance with that of the pump guns it was already using?! I certainly don't.

Take care, everyone!

Bushpilot
October 10, 2012, 07:58 PM
XTrooper, you basically attacked me because my opinion differed from yours. Then when I asked to see evidence that supported your opinion you gave none but repeated your disparaging remarks…. The bottom line is that you can offer no real evidence to support your opinion. The issue isn’t about whether gas operated guns need to be cleaned. Of course they do! The manufacturer of your shot gun is plainly telling you that it will not function properly if you allow it to get dirty. The issue and my point all along is that an 870 or 500 will continue to function without the constant cleaning and attention your auto requires. Also, an added plus is that the simple act of firing a pump shotgun will not foul the action the same way it does an auto because the gas and fouling is being expelled through the barrel and not partially through the action of the gun. So, not only is my pump gun not as susceptible to dirt, weather and fouling as your auto, but it does not get as dirty from simply being shot. And furthermore, the operation of my gun is not dependent on a brief and singular pulse of gas. If I have a sticky, bent or dirty shell I can apply force a second or third time to extract and eject it.
Also, regarding the Bennelli and the Joint Service Combat Shotgun, you obviously don’t know what the parameters of the JSCS were, but you still presume to tell me that I’m wrong.… Of course they tested it for reliability, but not against pumps… Pumps were NOT included but are still very much in inventory….. If you refuse to believe me I can supply you with a synopsis of the operational and physical requirements and the intended use of the JSCS…..

Vector
April 24, 2013, 02:38 PM
I was not too long after this thread/poll was created that prices went through the roof. Now that the so called "assault weapons" ban is dead, prices are starting to come back down. I just missed getting a SPX with a pistol grip for $700, so I am hopeful I can buy a semi-auto without having to give a kidney in trade.

2zulu1
April 24, 2013, 04:26 PM
Hey XTrooper, I guess if there is a chance you might get into a fight carrying your SPX you better pick a nice, clean, warm place for it……. and bring a cleaning kit...

Here is an excerpt from the Mossberg 930, 935 and SPX manual:
"To ensure optimum performance, Mossberg recommends thorough cleaning of your
firearm after every 200 rounds. However, unusually dusty, dirty, or harsh weather
conditions, or use of ammunition which leaves significant powder residue may
require more frequent cleaning.

Over-lubrication should be avoided during below freezing conditions. Many
lubricants thicken in low temperatures which could affect the operation of the
firearm."

I don’t recall ever reading anything like that for my 870…
Back in the day I always chose an Ithaca M37 for duty carry over the 870, now I have an FNH SLP for home defense. I've never short stroked an M37 and the FNH has been 100%, plus, it's easier to train with the FNH using duty OO Buck during extended range sessions.

As to the OP's poll, I wouldn't buy either choice.

Jed Carter
April 24, 2013, 04:58 PM
My 930 SPX cycles everything from ultra light target loads to deer slugs. Going on two years, only one cleaning, several hundred rounds, use it in USPSA 3-Gun, not one problem. Really wanted the FN autoloader, but it was twice the price, no brainer for a shotgun that gets used every other month.

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