What's wrong with surplus Indian .308?

Would like to purchase 1,000 rounds or so of surplus .308 Win to feed my hungry CETME. Most of the inexpensive (cheaper than reloading) surplus is from India...made as late as 1998, by Royal Ordnance,,,147-gr FMJBT, non-corrosive, boxer primed, brass cases...reloadable. $100/1,000 from J&G Sales, plus shipping & HAZMAT.

But, I've heard some shooters have had problems with this stuff...but no details. I'd like the benefit of your personal experience!:confused:

I shoot surplus Port, but read quite a bit on AR15.com and falfiles. From what I read about Indian 308, they say that you can figure to throw away 10% of it. According to what is said, every round needs to be inspected and shook. Some report of hearing stuff rattle inside the case. It is also said to be very nasty. I decided to pay a little more for clean shiny ammo that has a good reputation. Port and Aussie isn't that much more, and seems to have a lot better rating. Check out a few places and read about it. There again, I have no personal experience with it, and don't plan to, either.

What are your sources and prices for the Port and Aussie?

I'm not one much for heresay but ... have heard bad things too many times about the Indian stuff .. enough for me not to touch it. I find Portugese is fine, and got some Australian at last gun show .. and that I know is very good. Not quite as cheap I admit but .. if you buy crap that's cheaper and have FTF's etc ... there is no real saving.

Pity tho if it's Boxer primed ..brass is good to have.

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TooTaxed .. saw your post ... my Port' stuff was $150 from a gun show in Dallas (1,000 rnds) .. and the Australian recently .. only 800 rnds ... that was IIRC about $125. Haven't bought any thru other source because of shipping.

...wonder if it's worthwhile to buy the Indian and replace the powder? ...if primers and bullets are OK...

I do miss those fine Texas gunshows...couldn't find ANY surplus .308 at the recent Atlanta gunshow, which is about the best in Georgia...

I received a case from Ammoman when it first hit the shores. I found bullets obviously angled in the cases with a 10-15 degree cant. Some of the necks were crushed, making the cartridge look like it was wearing a turtle neck. Two of the rounds had bullets so loose that I could rotate them with very little effort.

These were the OBVIOUS problems. My worry is that if these blantant disasters made it through India's magnificent ISO 9002 procedures, the hidden QC problems must be phenomenal.

Now, you could sort the ammo, remove the 15% that look terrible and you've still got yourself a good deal... IF you trust what's inside.

I called Ammoman, and he picked up the case with no questions. I don't want to see it again.

I picked up about 100 rounds of this stuff at a gunshow a month or so back. Have only fired 10 rounds but have some observations.

In that 10, I had a misfire. My rifle is not given to misfires. Cocked the bolt and the round went off with the 2nd try.

If you plan on reloading the boxer primed cases, plan on tossing perhaps a third. Of the 10 I bought & fired, 3 of them had rims so irregular, that they wouldn't fit in my shellholder.

In fairness, the stuff did shoot about to the point of aim as most other Nato .308.

I ordered some Indian 308 before I read these reports. I received ammo that has OFV 97 M80 7.62 on the base of the case. It is brass cased, lead copper clad (?) bullets @ 148 Gr. and Boxer primed. I pulled the bullets from 10 rounds and the powder weight varied from 43.4 to 46 grains. It looks like reloads as the cases are rough and dirty on the inside. Does anybody have any of this ammo and how well does it fire?

Many thanks, Old Man

When thinking about a country, if you wouldn't drink their water, don't shoot their ammo.

Another vote for not getting Indian ammo. What Mikul said is exactly what my ammo looked like.
-Mike :barf:

"...buy the Indian and replace the powder..." If you're thinking that way, you'd be better to buy components and load it yourself. Then it'll be you who controls the quality. Most suff from India is of questionable quality. Their QC isn't great. ISO or not. Mind you, the ISO rules really only apply to keeping track of how the thing was made and what, if any, QC methods were used. Bad QC is bad QC.
The Portugese stuff has always been good. Sold it in the store I was in, 20 plus years ago. No complaints from anyone.

...it's a shame...there appears to be no boxer-primed surplus on the market except the Indian. The Port and Aussie are berdan-primed, non-reloadable, and more expensive than reloading counting multiple case usage.

Guess I'll just lay in some of the Winchester USA 147-gr at $10-$11/20 (plus tax) available in local gunshops, and reload from there...that's less expensive in the long run than the Port and Aussie, considering shipping.:cuss:

The Indian ammo costs me just over 7 cents a round. I have Boxer brass, a projectile, and the brass is primed. I don't think the price is too bad for
reloading.

Old Man

Deles, you should check over your primed Indian cases carefully, even if you've pulled the bullets. I examined the photos of the blown FAL and CETME rifles on those discussion boards, and it looks like the cartridges fired before being fully chamered...slam fires. Both were firing the Indian ammo...

Here are threads and photos for the blown CETME and MG42...couldn't remember where I found the FAL pics...on an FAL messageboard. It was worse than the CETME...

html:www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?Topic_ID=29886

html://blackrivermilitaria.com/MG42/MG42ammowarning.html

:cuss:

IMHO, Indian .308 should really be advertised only as ammo to be salvaged...not fired.

How do you blame the ammo for a slam fire? I would think that there was a firing pin or other problem.

Old Man

Possible protruding or unusually sensitive primer...

That makes sense. I have not found that problem (protruding primer)
with the ammo I have but I may. I have decided to pull the bullets and change the powder with the Indian ammo to be safe.

Old Man

Good for you! That's what I'd do.

I don't see that anyone has critically examined the pulled bullets...I'd be interested in what you find.

I have pulled 20 bullets so far and they are boat tailed lead, copper clad with the lead showing at the base. They weigh 147 to 148 grains and have a serrated ring where they meet the top of the case. They also have some type of sealant but were easy to pull using a collet and a press. I have not found any loose or not straight so far. They are standard pointed (round nose).

Old Man

All of the Indian 308 bullets that I have pulled measure .308".

Old Man

A frind of mine bought two thousand rounds of the stuff because it looked like such a great deal and the person on the phone said it shot fine.

This was the worst ammo I had ever seen, some of it was bent and smashed, some the bulletts would fall out upon handling the cartridges. it shot about an 8 inch group at 100 yards and mis-fired or hang fired most of the time. He couldn't with a clear conscience sell it soo he gave it away. It was that bad.


P.S. filthy stuff too.....dirty.....dirty......dirty

Here's the blown-up FAL post with photos:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/show...threadid=100990

TooTaxed - got an error 404 from that link ... any chance you could check it again ... is it still a valid thread and is the URL correct.?

I have heard (heresay again) that this ammo was once linked ammo. During the de-linking process, some of the bullets were bent, canted, or made loose, and this contributed to the quality problems. Combine that with other known Indian quality issues, and well, "You get what you pay for". We all want to reload because it costs less and lets us shoot more, but it's not worth the cost of life and limb.

P95 Carry, sorry 'bout that! That is exactly the same ID I used before. Suggest you go to http://www.falfiles.com/forums and search for it. Rather scary looking group of photos. I was rather surprised to see greater damage done to the FAL than to the CETME...

Happened upon a gunshow in Dalton, Alabama while driving through last weekend. Picked up a couple hundred nice South African (Berdan primed, darn it!) for $3.50/20. Probably should have gotten a case...

Spent the week on Panama City Beach...loaded with cute coeds on spring break, living wild! Truly a target-rich environment for those young fellows...

When and where did y'all get your Indian ammo from?

I got mine from www.jgsales.com a while back (Oct 03?) and hadn't had a chance to try it yet so this thread had me worried.

Mine is headstamp "OFV 98" "7.62 M80"

I was trying one of those cheap Red Dots from www.cdnninvestments.com on my CETME. Sighted it in with the last of my Norinco .308 and then tried the Indian. I didn't have any trouble shot 40 rounds. Seemed maybe a bit more accurate than the Norinco (which isn't hard to do) and felt noticably less in recoil. Point of impact was a little different too. So far it seems like decent surplus ammo.

Mine is packed in 10 round plastic bags, with about one in 10 opened and taped shut, there was a note from JG Sales saying: "some rounds were seated abnormally deep and these were removed and replaced before shipping". I note the price as dropped some since when I ordered.

With the CETME's forward ejection, the brass was in all the weeds, I searched until I found one -- nothing looked abnormal about it.

I saw more of the Portug

--wally.