All-around cartridge for North American game?


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Sgt_R
September 21, 2012, 05:51 PM
Full disclosure: I have never hunted, and my only rifles are .223 / 5.56mm.

I'd like to buy a versatile hunting rifle in a caliber suitable for most game found in North America, excluding bear, moose, and similar large/dangerous animals. The rifle may also be used for occasional casual target shooting. I am leaning towards a Handi Rifle with 3-9 glass for this purpose.

I currently live in SC. As I understand things here, my longest shot is likely to be around 400 yards, with the majority taken at 100 yards or less.

I am currently interested in the following three calibers: .308, 7mm/08, and .300 BLK.

Thoughts on these calibers for my intended use?

R

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MCgunner
September 21, 2012, 06:23 PM
.300 mag will handle anything in the lower 48. I prefer the 7 mag, less recoil, better ballistic coefficients. Personal preference.

Mostly, folks are going to tell you .30-06, but the 7mm kicks no more and does have more range and a flatter trajectory. I handload, so I don't care if they carry .30-06 at the north side 7-11 and not 7 mag. :rolleyes: 7 mag has traditionally been in the top five rounds in popularity. All sporting goods stores carry it, I mean, if you're too lazy to roll your own for better ammo. :D

Okay, .308 is a might lighter, but yeah, just don't shoot as far on bigger game. It'll take elk to 300 yards no problem with a good bullet. Of your choices, go .308 and live happy. :D 7-08 is lighter, but will also do the job. Less recoil, but then, .308 even in a light rifle like my M7 doesn't bother me at all even shooting off the bench at the range.

splattergun
September 21, 2012, 08:07 PM
If you'll never go shooting grizzly bear or angry bull moose, at your eastern ranges no magnum is required. any standard .30 cal on down to 243 will work on whitetail and mule deer, as long as you do your part well and use a reliable expanding bullet. Going for elk? Well, .243 might be a bit light. You have the luxury of choosing for shooting comfort here.

GJgo
September 21, 2012, 10:59 PM
Between the three calibers you listed the 308 & 7mm08 are really too close to argue. More off-the-shelf ammo choice for the 308. I personnaly don't think the 300 BLK should even be considered, it's much weaker.

I would recommend a Savage Axis or Ruger American if you're looking for something cheap & light. The Handi-Rifle isn't going to do what you want for a target rifle.

gunner69
September 21, 2012, 11:14 PM
Hands down the 30-06, it can take any game on the North American contenent and is available most anywhere. I can't stand the recoil anymore, getting old, so I shoot the 6.5x55 Swede which can do the same with less recoil.:evil:

Alaska444
September 21, 2012, 11:18 PM
30-06 is certainly the great one rifle that is tried and true for a century of use. It has the power to be a bear defense gun even in Alaska and it gets all critters from that size and down.

That being said, my all around gun is of course my Marlin .444.:D Not really a 400 yard gun, but for the majority of shots below 100 yards as you stated, can't be beat for hunting and for woods defense.

Robert
September 21, 2012, 11:19 PM
30-06. Or the do all of the world, 375H&H.

But of the ones you list and based on your hunting area, .308.

Coop45
September 21, 2012, 11:24 PM
Ahem.....don't forget Jack O'Conner said the .270 Winchester was all that was needed.:evil:

JEB
September 21, 2012, 11:59 PM
if you will be buying factory ammo then i would say .308

if you reload or are planning on reloading in the near future, i would go with the 7mm-08.

tomrkba
September 22, 2012, 12:10 AM
Look into a 458 SOCOM upper for your AR-15.

Just poking around the 'net for info:

http://janicefoy.ifunnyblog.com/458socomballistics/

Alaska444
September 22, 2012, 12:10 AM
Ahem.....don't forget Jack O'Conner said the .270 Winchester was all that was needed.:evil:
One of my friends here in Idaho has harvested dozens of bears and elk with his .270. It turns out he learned this directly from Jack O'Conner. His father was good friends with him in Northern Idaho. Lot's of folks told my friend that the .270 was not enough gun for elk, but he has harvested more than any of his critics. Go figure.

blindhari
September 22, 2012, 12:32 AM
It is not the gun, it is not the caliber, it is not the man. When all three combine and coordinate you have a matchless hunter. My brother in law shoots an old Remington bolt in .270 win. He shoots elk out to 500 yds and coyote further with that rifle. He takes running shots on deer, coyote and javalenia at under 20 yds. He has shot buffalo out of a runninng herd with three heart shots in the Kaibab. I have seen him hit poker chips out to 200yds with absolute consistency. One man who has learned to hit everything and takes just one rifle when it counts, Remington, one caliber, 270, 0ne ammo, Remington 165 Corerlokt. Find what works for you, 270 works for him.

blindhari

Water-Man
September 22, 2012, 01:34 AM
Are you sure he's shooting a .270 using 165gr. Core-Lokt?

Bobson
September 22, 2012, 02:18 AM
Are you sure he's shooting a .270 using 165gr. Core-Lokt?
All I've ever been able to find (when I had my 270) in Core-Lokt were 130gr and 150gr.

My vote for the needs of the OP would either be 308 or 270. I'm looking forward to replacing mine, wish I didn't have to let it go to begin with.

saturno_v
September 22, 2012, 04:13 AM
hmm let's see....very difficult question to answer...NOT!!! :D


30-06....from Grizzly to squirrel.....


Mostly, folks are going to tell you .30-06, but the 7mm kicks no more and does have more range and a flatter trajectory.

Flatter yes, more useful hunting range no......

jmr40
September 22, 2012, 04:55 AM
Of your choices I'd go 308, with a 7-08 as a 2nd choice. All 3 are capable, but I'd go 308 for versatility and availability. The 308 will do anything the 30-06, 270 or 300 mags will do, just at closer range. This includes the big bears. If you don't plan on shooting over 400 yards then the 308 is just fine.

For deer sized game the 308 shoots flat enough and has enough energy for deer at 500, elk at 400 or the large bears at 100 or less. The other, bigger calibers suggested won't kill them any deader, but might add a few yards of effective range.

303tom
September 22, 2012, 10:14 AM
Hands down it is the .30-06 Springfield, or the "thirty-aught-six", or the "thirty-oh-six", or the 7.6263mm or what ever you want to call it, that`s your standard, but that`s my .02 cents...............& jmr40, NO !

buck460XVR
September 22, 2012, 10:45 AM
Go to Walmart, Cabela's, Bass Pro or any other sporting goods store in America when they put out their stock of ammo before big game season and the largest inventory of any caliber will be in 30-06. Go there after right after season and the shelves that are the barest will be the ones that once held large amounts of 30-06. The round is as popular now as it was 100 years ago, regardless of how hard the ammo makers, gun rag writers and internet commandos have tried to dethrone it. While it might not be the best round for some North American Game, it works very well on all of them. If one is only gonna own one big game rifle, thinks at some point he may hunt more than whitetail deer and will be buying factory ammo for the rest of his hunting career(this is the majority of those that hunt deer) a good 30-06 is never a poor choice.

j1
September 22, 2012, 10:52 AM
Remember what Col Townsend Whelan used to say. "The 30 06 is never a mistake." The only thing which might cause the pucker factor to set in is grizzly or polar bears. Moose elk or deer are well covered by the 06. Just a little more than the 308.

JohnM
September 22, 2012, 10:56 AM
You can argue till the cows come home, but the aught 6 is tough to beat.
A cartridge that got it right and just keeps ticking.
Truth be known, back when grizzlies and polar bears were still hunted regularly,a 30-06 probably killed a majority.

savanahsdad
September 22, 2012, 11:31 AM
I have a Handi rifle in .308 with a cinnamon laminate stock with a Ultra barrel , great little gun , one of my sons got his first deer with it , so it will be his someday . he droped that deer at 150 yards with the one shot , and he was only 13 years old at the time , so nothing wrong with going with a handi rifle in 308 , just put some nice glass on top and pick your shot , even with an auto you may only get one shot ,
I alsol have a bolt gun in 7mm-08 , lighter , faster and has less kick , that round has gone over big here in northern WI, and just as mutch 7mm-08 on the shelfs as 30/30 , 270win, 30/06 , 308, or any of the mags, and when we had the big ammo scare of 2008 the 30cals were the frist thing to go. I walked in a FleetFarm and there were no 30/06 ,308's or 270win , but there were 7mm's
anyway 308 or 7mm-08 would both be great picks, I'd lean to the 7mm-08 myself :)

threefortyduster
September 22, 2012, 11:42 AM
Of the 3 you say you're interested in, I would choose the .308. The 300 blackout shouldn't even be considered, it's not even down the street from the ballpark the .308 and 7mm-08 play in.

300AAC-125 gr bullet at 2200 fps
.308-150-180 gr bullets at 2600+ fps
7mm-08-150 gr at 2600 fps

That all being said, the .308 would be my choice from your list. If you were open to others, I am all the other people who say the .30-06 is the best do all round for North America. The .308 is still a fine cartridge.

CraigC
September 22, 2012, 01:58 PM
Hands down the 30-06...
Boring. There is no "hands down" choice. If you're "excluding bear, moose, and similar large/dangerous animals" then all you really want is a deer rifle that is elk capable. For which there are about 900 different cartridges that will do the job. People say ".30/06" because it's easy and they've heard it a million times before but in the real world, there are A LOT of different choices. In the real world, the `06 has no advantage over the .308 until you get heavier than 180gr and 180's can be used for everything up to and including elk. For that matter, the 7mm08 or any of the various 6.5's will do the same job with less recoil and in a rifle that's shorter and a pound or so lighter. Several quarter inchers like the .257Roberts are also a good choice.

My advice would be to get a good deer/antelope rifle. If you can afford to hunt elk, moose, caribou and the great bears of the north, you can certainly afford another rifle for the task.

JohnM
September 22, 2012, 02:09 PM
If for some strange reason I had to choose just one
HP center fire rifle it would be a 30-06.
I've used it for over 50 years and there aren't many that offer it's adaptability.

CraigC
September 22, 2012, 03:21 PM
...there aren't many that offer it's adaptability.
There are literally dozens.

JohnM
September 22, 2012, 03:26 PM
Name some of these dozens that have as many off the shelf factory loads available or such variety listed in reloading manuals.

CraigC
September 22, 2012, 04:05 PM
I already did. The .308 is a better cartridge for bullets up to 180gr. Any of the more sedate 7mm's, the .270WCF, any of the 6.5's, most of the .25's, a few of the .35's. I don't understand why folks think the `06 is the only versatile rifle cartridge available. As usual, perception is everything. Yawn......

Coop45
September 22, 2012, 05:01 PM
Ahhhh, caliber wars!! LOL!! Are there any other old goobers on here that recall the article about how the .458 Winchester Magnum was the perfect caliber? It was good for everything from elephants to squirrels... or so the writer said. I think his squirrel load was a pistol powder under several buckshot. It was a good read during the 30'06 vs .270 years.

A Person
September 22, 2012, 05:05 PM
The .308 Winchester can take just about anything in the lower 48 ahas better range and usually accuracy than a 30-06. Plus, with MOST rifles for plinking you can buy bulk 7.62x51mm NATO. I use Silver Bear Soft Point .308's for both hunting and plinking. Ammo is VERY common.:)

j1
September 22, 2012, 05:10 PM
But why settle for less when you can get the best. The 30 06 rules.

Water-Man
September 22, 2012, 05:14 PM
Coop45,

That was before my time. ;)

blindhari
September 22, 2012, 07:52 PM
Water-man,
you are entirely correct. I just called and brother in law uses 150gr 270 corelokt for reloading. I load 180 tips in my 308 that he calls the "short range gun". Last year I got tired of chasing elk and set up outside upwind a water tank near some brush. A bull elk pushed 4 cows up the trail and I tagged #3 with a H&R 45-70 and a 350 grain Buffalo Bore at the magnificent distance of 30'. He has advised me to get a large stick with a nail in it if I want to get any closer.

blindhari

MCgunner
September 22, 2012, 07:52 PM
Flatter yes, more useful hunting range no......

The big 7 carries more energy down range via better BCs. There was an interesting article in "American Rifleman" a while back on the come back in popularity of the 7 for long range shooting. I don't shoot 1000 yards on game, but the gun can do it in the right hands a lot better than a .30 caliber. Argue if ya want, doesn't change the facts.

Taurus 617 CCW
September 22, 2012, 08:13 PM
I chose the .30-06 as my do-all cartridge. It's not the flattest shooting but you can take anything on the north American continent with it and you can find it on just about every ammo shelf across the country.

MCgunner
September 22, 2012, 08:24 PM
I already did. The .308 is a better cartridge for bullets up to 180gr. Any of the more sedate 7mm's, the .270WCF, any of the 6.5's, most of the .25's, a few of the .35's. I don't understand why folks think the `06 is the only versatile rifle cartridge available. As usual, perception is everything. Yawn......

I have always agreed on this. The .30-06 is a fine cartridge, but it's not even CLOSE to the ONLY cartridge. Of the three OP choices, I prefer .308, but I just prefer it. Nothing wrong with the 7mm-08 and it does have some advantages.

It's all a matter of personal preference. I think, like someone else said, though, I'd eliminate the 300 BLK and choose between .308 and 7-08, personally. Ain't a lot of difference. One thing I like about .308, or have liked in the past, is the amount of surplus .308 cases for cheap. Tough brass, hard to neck size to 7mm, but lasts a long time. I have had a hard time finding it, though, at times, but .308 is still in military service, especially with mini guns that spit out a LOT of reusable brass. :D

justice06rr
September 22, 2012, 09:09 PM
.308 or 30-06.

Widely available everywhere and should be sufficient for the range and purposes you mentioned.

I do like the 300BLK suppressed, but your range is limited to around 300yards or so.

saturno_v
September 22, 2012, 09:29 PM
Craig no other caliber can touch the 30-06 when EVERYTHING is included....number of rifle models on the market and and type of actions available, easy availability of off the shelf ammo.

I can mention other calibers as flexible too when it comes to ballistic but not as much as the 30-06 in every aspects.

Especially if you reload the 308 is not as capable even under 180 gr.....the 30-06 has the ballistic advantage.

Boring choice maybe but true.

There is a reason for its popularity, do not argue with success....;)

Sgt_R
September 22, 2012, 09:37 PM
OP here...

Thanks for the discussion, y'all. I wasn't sure if .300 BLK could hang with the other two, but I figured I'd ask anyway. It seems the answer is a fairly definitive "no."

The choice between .308 and 7mm/08 was a toss up, but it sounds like a wash in the performance department, with .308 having an advantage in price and availability. That was what I expected to hear, but thanks for the second opinions.

I had already removed the 30-06 from consideration for my own reasons, but I do appreciate those suggestions.

Before I run out and purchase my first .308, would anyone care to make a convincing case for .243, .270, or some other similar cartridge?

Thanks,
R

saturno_v
September 22, 2012, 09:41 PM
The big 7 carries more energy down range via better BCs. There was an interesting article in "American Rifleman" a while back on the come back in popularity of the 7 for long range shooting. I don't shoot 1000 yards on game, but the gun can do it in the right hands a lot better than a .30 caliber. Argue if ya want, doesn't change the facts.


Not arguing...just ballistics.....I did quickly look at many commercial loadings for both and the best 30-06 I could find in terms of energy at long distance is a loading from Double Tap, 200 gr, Nosler Accubond out of a 22" barrel rifle , 1884 ft/lb at the 500 y mark. the 180 gr. Nosler Accubond has 1768 gt/lb left at the same distance.

The two best 7mm RM are from DT as well, Nosler 175 gr, and 160 gr.....the 175 gr. left with 1882 ft/lb at 500 yards and the 160 gr. left with 1925 ft/lb at 500y, both of them out of a 24" rifle

Again, no arguing, ballistic facts.

GJgo
September 22, 2012, 09:43 PM
If you're only going to have one rifle I would stick with the 308. It'll do everything well.

Here's what I do do. I get a Savage 308. When I want something different, I grab the action wrench & headspace gauges screw on another barrel for a different .473 boltface of my choosing. One rifle, one scope, one stock, many calibers. It's all just for fun though, the 308 will do it all.

sage5907
September 22, 2012, 10:05 PM
If I couldn't hunt with a 30-06 I would pick the 308. Great availability of factory ammo and bullet choices for the handloader. Shooter

MCgunner
September 22, 2012, 10:31 PM
Not arguing...just ballistics.....I did quickly look at many commercial loadings for both and the best 30-06 I could find in terms of energy at long distance is a loading from Double Tap, 200 gr, Nosler Accubond out of a 22" barrel rifle , 1884 ft/lb at the 500 y mark. the 180 gr. Nosler Accubond has 1768 gt/lb left at the same distance.

The two best 7mm RM are from DT as well, Nosler 175 gr, and 160 gr.....the 175 gr. left with 1882 ft/lb at 500 yards and the 160 gr. left with 1925 ft/lb at 500y, both of them out of a 24" rifle

Again, no arguing, ballistic facts.

You are NOT well iinformed on the 7 mag. I forget the article now, probably tossed it as we're in the process of moving and all my stuff is stored until we close on the house. I'm currently living in an 18 ft travel trailer with the wife and 2 cats. But, the bullets used in that "American Rifleman" article have very high Bcs and are of the 162 grain range of weight IIRC. They were showing in ballistic tables from their testing that it out performed the .300 Win Mag at 800 yards and shot flatter, carried more energy. Can a .30-06 hang with a .300 Win Mag? Yes, my gun has a 24" barrel....so?

I shoot a Sierra Game King in the 7, BC of .535, 150 grains. Leaves the barrel around 3200 fps powered by RL22. It shoots flat and will kill deer to my limit of 400 yards. I don't need no stinkin' .30-06. :D Actually, I have found I don't need no stinkin' 7 mag, either. It's too much for short range on whitetail and hogs, my quarry now days as I'm old and don't much care for a heart attack in rough country. I was really wanting a .280 when I decided, heck, same gun, 7 mag can be loaded down to .280, but not vice versa. So, I got the 7.

Since getting my Remington M7 in .308, I really haven't shot the 7 much let alone hunt with it. It's a safe queen, collects dust. Sure got a good glass on that thing, though. The little M7 is a much lighter, more compact gun than the Savage, a little more accurate, and is my fave hog slayer and deer gitter now days if I just HAVE to use a cartridge firing rifle. I've been into handgunning 'em and shooting my smoke poles lately. Nothing wrong with THAT, either. :D But, that little short action .308 would probably get the nod if I ever hunted the rough country in New Mexico again just because it's literally POUNDS lighter than the Savage. .308 will kill anything I'll ever hunt to 400 yards...well, might limit it to 300 if I ever got to go elk hunting, but that's likely one thing I'll never get to hunt. When I bought the 7, I was thinkin' elk, but I gave up on the lotto finally.

Now, to the OP's asking for other options, in the .308 family is the .260 Remington. Like the 7-08, it's just necked down this time to .264" and like the 7-08, if you don't handload, the factory ammo options might be a little more limited. Everybody makes a variety of .308, it's wildly popular. I handload it and STILL prefer it just because. :D

I mean, there's no end to the number of calibers that will work for you in the lower 48, a bit fewer if you're going to Alaska, but the .308 is good as any in a short action rifle IMHO. There's all the new short magnums, of course, SIL really likes the .270 WSM, but cost of ammo, if you don't handload it, is going to be steep. He handloads, of course. The .308 has most beat for variety of ammo and cost and it tends to be an easy caliber to load for, as in it's easy to get accuracy with it. That's due to the short case and fast powders. I'm quite impressed with the 150 Nosler BT out of its 20" barrel at right at 2800 fps. It's killed a lot of deer and hog and it has positive expansion, full lengthwise body penetration on deer, and doesn't tear up meat the way a 7 mag will do at short range without a premium bullet. It's a really good round in a really good rifle and I find it hard to argue with perfection. :D

If you'd rather have a AR based weapon, .308 is available, too. It's not just for bolt guns.

rcmodel
September 22, 2012, 10:36 PM
You can buy 30-06 or .308 hunting ammo at the gas station in Moose Drool Saskatchewan if you have too.
Oh, the general store has it too.

Don't bother to ask about many of the other calibers mentioned in this thread!

rc

303tom
September 22, 2012, 10:38 PM
OP here...

Thanks for the discussion, y'all. I wasn't sure if .300 BLK could hang with the other two, but I figured I'd ask anyway. It seems the answer is a fairly definitive "no."

The choice between .308 and 7mm/08 was a toss up, but it sounds like a wash in the performance department, with .308 having an advantage in price and availability. That was what I expected to hear, but thanks for the second opinions.

I had already removed the 30-06 from consideration for my own reasons, but I do appreciate those suggestions.

Before I run out and purchase my first .308, would anyone care to make a convincing case for .243, .270, or some other similar cartridge?

Thanks,
R
Well the .270 Win. will launch bullets from 90 to 180gr. not many cartridges can make that claim.............

MCgunner
September 22, 2012, 10:57 PM
Well the .270 Win. will launch bullets from 90 to 180gr. not many cartridges can make that claim.............

That's a wide range. Most .270s are rifled to stabilize 130-150 grains. A 180 might not hit paper at 100 yards....just sayin'.....:D

1911 guy
September 22, 2012, 11:30 PM
Any .30 caliber will do. If the largest thing you'll be shooting is deer, the .243 will suffice. My personal favorite is the .308 Winchester, the most common is probably the .30-'06. Any and all of the magnums will work, but will also be over-kill.

saturno_v
September 22, 2012, 11:47 PM
McGunner


I'm not arguing about how good the 7mm is.....I just posted the numbers of the best premium commercial hunting loads (we are not talking about super sleek target bullets) for both cartridges....and these are the figures.....yes the 7mm will shoot flatter but both will run out of practical hunting horsepower at about the same distance.....and I do not think many people use these cartridges past 600 yards for hunting anyway...

Putting in another way, I do not believe the 7mm RM has a range edge in power over the 30-06 when hunting deer....again and again, it wil shoot flatter but that is a different aspect....

One THR member claims he can launch a 190 gr. extremely efficient target bullet out of his -06 at 3000 fps within pressure limits.....but again, we are not talking about hunting pills, just paper punchers.....

C-grunt
September 23, 2012, 12:56 AM
Well the .270 Win. will launch bullets from 90 to 180gr. not many cartridges can make that claim.............
I have read that guys are loading the 110 grain TSX bullets to 3500 FPS muzzle velocity and it is hammering deer.

OP. I would just stick with the 308. It just plain works.

savanahsdad
September 23, 2012, 01:12 AM
Fur-Fish-Game did a test with the 260rem 7mm-08 and the 308, all with Sierra spitzer boat tail 140gr bullets , out too 150 yards your spliting hairs at 200 too 250 there neck and neck after that the fatter 30cal is slowing down faster than the other too at 300 yards the 7mm-08 and the 260 are clocking faster speeds and droping less with the same weight bullets so they will have more energy and less hold over at 400yards so if you want a round that is good from 100 too 400 yards I'd go with the 7mm-08. after the writer did his tests he ran the data through Sierra's Infinty program and came up with the same thing he got from his real world tests, as for where you can get ammo like Billy Bobs hardware store, , well I was just in a truckstop in Bismarck ND last night and there was 7mm-08 right next to the 308 so I guess it is not only going over big in northern WI


off track (I ran the same test with 25/06, 270win and 30/06 and the 30/06 lost there too and it had a longer barrel ! just a fun-fact for you :neener:

Bio-Chem
September 23, 2012, 01:34 AM
To the original poster i'd be curious to hear your reasoning to already eschewing the 30-06?

I'm not interested in changing your mind, i'm just curious as to your thought process? For all practical purposes the .308 does everything the 06 will do with less powder, and a shorter action. both bonuses in my mind. I can't imagine any deer or elk being able to tell the difference between 30 cal bullets when one is traveling just 100 fps or so faster.

A good case can be made for the .270 for sure. Jack O'Conner proved that. Personally I prefer the bullet selection the .308 cal provides over the .277 and as you will use this as a range gun as well you are more likely to get better accuracy out of a .308 than a 270.

I'd not consider the .243 for your stated purposes. I'd consider it a bit under powered for larger game compared to the other two.

Boomm
September 23, 2012, 01:42 AM
Lately I've been using an enfield no5 mk1 jungle carbine in .303 British. Works well so far on elk and deer. That cartridge has taken just about everything.

savanahsdad
September 23, 2012, 02:19 AM
To the original poster i'd be curious to hear your reasoning to already eschewing the 30-06?

I'm not interested in changing your mind, i'm just curious as to your thought process? For all practical purposes the .308 does everything the 06 will do with less powder, and a shorter action. both bonuses in my mind. I can't imagine any deer or elk being able to tell the difference between 30 cal bullets when one is traveling just 100 fps or so faster.

A good case can be made for the .270 for sure. Jack O'Conner proved that. Personally I prefer the bullet selection the .308 cal provides over the .277 and as you will use this as a range gun as well you are more likely to get better accuracy out of a .308 than a 270.

I'd not consider the .243 for your stated purposes. I'd consider it a bit under powered for larger game compared to the other two.
270win is more accurate than a 308 not the other way around for one it is faster , so it will spend less time in flight for two it will drop less and the BC on the same weight bullet is better for the .277 but the op didn't list a 270win (or that would have been my pick)

MrDig
September 23, 2012, 02:49 AM
To quote American Rifleman
" the seven top-selling deer hunting cartridges in America (listed smallest to largest) are, .243, .270, 7 mm Rem. Mag., .30-30, .308, .30-06, and .300 Win. Mag."
Link to the article here
http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/americas-best-deer-cartridge/
I listed the best selling because of those seven it really depends on what kind of hunting you are doing. For me in the Minnesota Brush and Forests I have yet to see a full 100 yard shot so the 30-30 and the .243 are all I need. In the Plains states like the Dakotas a Long Flat shooting 300 Win Mag might just be the ticket. I would shoot a 30-06 there too or maybe the .270 but I never get out there so it's a moot point.
Low and behold my personal favorites are in there I like .243, 30-30, .308 and 30-06 the best and shoot .243 and 30.30 the most.

ZeroJunk
September 23, 2012, 03:15 AM
I have killed a few elk and a bunch of deer over almost 40 years. I can't recall a single kill where it would have made any difference whether I was using any of the usual suspects.

Of the cartridges he asked about a 308 will work like a champ.

ljnowell
September 23, 2012, 04:28 AM
270win is more accurate than a 308 not the other way around

Thats a blanket statement, usually blanket statements are wrong. Rifle, marksman, load, bullet weight, rifling twist rate, etc. are all involved in accuracy.

1911Tuner
September 23, 2012, 05:18 AM
You can buy 30-06 or .308 hunting ammo at the gas station in Moose Drool Saskatchewan if you have too. Oh, the general store has it too.

This is where the .30-06 and .308 shine. Of the 30 bores, about the only one that's more prolific is the .30-30 Winchester. As noted, there are several calibers out there that will match those two in effectiveness and versatility in all venues...until you try to find ammunition in the middle of nowhere 200 miles from the nearest big box gun emporium. .30-06 and .308 and .30-30 ammunition will be there. The others?

I'm a huge fan of the .308 Winchester and my rifle battery reflects that...but if I had to choose one rifle and one caliber to do all that I need to do with a rifle on the North American continent until the end of my days, the .30-06 would get the nod.

ZeroJunk
September 23, 2012, 10:00 AM
the .30-06 would get the nod.

That has pretty much been the case as long as I can remember, unless you are talking about ranges where the vast majority of us have no business taking a shot.

The differences in performance data are best used if you are planning on dropping a reloading manual on the animal from a great height, or flog it to death with a gun magazine.

buck460XVR
September 23, 2012, 10:56 AM
You can buy 30-06 or .308 hunting ammo at the gas station in Moose Drool Saskatchewan if you have too.
Oh, the general store has it too.

Don't bother to ask about many of the other calibers mentioned in this thread!




This is where the .30-06 and .308 shine.

The point I was trying to make. Is the 30-06 the only versatile gun out there? No, as has been stated, there are many calibers out there that are versatile. Is it the most versatile? That is open for discussion and a matter of preference. But in deer country, no matter where you are on the continent, the majority of guns you see in the field are '06s. The majority of these folks do not reload, nor do they shoot more than a box a shells a year. Many years the gun and the shells are taken out a week or two before season and test fired with a mag to see if the sights/scope are still on. Then the hunter may or may not shoot once or twice during the season. These same folks may realize that the box of shells they've had for the last two years is almost empty and just stop on the way to the range at Wally-world or Bubba's to get more. Odds are if they are lookin' for 30-06 they will find them.....and they'll be cheaper than .260 Rems and 7mm-08s. Sorry Savanahsdad, but the reason there were 7mm-08 shells left at FleetFarm and nuttin' else was not because of their popularity, but just the opposite. Demand for the .30 bores is what sold them, lack of demand is why the 7mm-08s were left. Go to hunting camp with 5 guys and at least two or three there will be using a 30-06. Don't know how many times I have been there and someone in their haste has forgotten their shells or emptied their pockets at deer on the first day. If it's 30-06 they need, odds are someone else can help them out. Can't say that for a less popular caliber.This is why I always recommend a '06 to the average, one box a year, won't ever reload, and lives to hunt only one week a year, deer hunter. If they are any more than that, generally they know what they need and don't have to ask.

savanahsdad
September 23, 2012, 11:40 AM
I was not saying 7mm-08 was left on the shelf because it it so popular , sorry for the misunderstanding , I was try to make the point , that if/when we have another ammo/primer shortage , you will have better luck finding the less popular stuff , I remember guys asking me where to find 44mag back in 08/09 just before hunting season they couldn't finding any ! and 7mm-08 in not rare or hard to find , and it is a "hold on target " round and your right most guys are not getting out too 300 or 400yard shots but if they do get that shot "like across a corn field" most can't tell if it is a 200 , 300 or 400 yard shot so thats where a flatter shooting round realy shines

Again I have a Handi rifle in .308 and love it, but in unknown country I would rather have my Savage 16 in 7mm-08,,, less need to guess hold-over "and yes I've shot both alot"

CraigC
September 23, 2012, 11:44 AM
Choosing a rifle because ammunition is available at Walmart is about the silliest thing I've ever heard. Life is too short to hunt with what everybody else is using.

savanahsdad
September 23, 2012, 11:54 AM
Choosing a rifle because ammunition is available at Walmart is about the silliest thing I've ever heard. Life is too short to hunt with what everybody else is using.
agree 100% I thinking about takeing my Rem 141 pump out this year , it is a 32rem!! go find that ammo !!!lol,,,

MrDig
September 23, 2012, 12:35 PM
The greater the supply the less expensive the ammo. A box of Winchester White Box is still less than 20 bucks in 308 or 30-06 or even .243 so for those of us who do not reload it is still affordable to shoot and practice during the off season.
Choosing a rifle based on the cost and availability of the ammo is not silly at all. In fact there is logic and forethought in making such a choice.

X-Rap
September 23, 2012, 01:23 PM
Being able to by ammo at the 7 11 store?? Do people just loose or run out of ammo?? I would be as much or more concerned with a damaged scope or rifle than ammo. In travel it seems the chances would be almost as equal for you to have a lost, stolen, broken gun or scope.
In 40 yrs of hunting I have never ran out of, forgot, lost ammo except once when I was 14 on the trapline and I forgot my 22 shells.
If I am on "the hunt of a lifetime" I take 2 guns and ample ammo for both.
To the OP of your choices I would say that the 7-08 slightly edges the 308 in versatility, mainly in lighter bullets and better trajectory of heavy bullets due to typically higher BC's.

WardenWolf
September 23, 2012, 01:35 PM
I'm a big fan of 8mm Mauser. Sure, it's not that common anymore, but it's a great cartridge and can be found in many quality rifles, both surplus and new (Tikka produces new rifles in it, as do a few other major manufacturers). It's really hard to argue with the stopping power it provides. It's pretty good value, too, as Prvi Partizan / PPU soft points can be had for around $13.50 a box from AIM.

JohnM
September 23, 2012, 01:38 PM
The worst "forgot my ammo" case was a hot shot hunter I was guiding once.
All the way into camp and around the table in the cook tent he told us about his many and expensive hunting trips all over the world.
This guy was hot to get after it and we rode out of camp in the wee hours the next morning.
About an hour on horseback down the trail and I looked back to see this bozo with a funny look on his face madly going through all his pockets.
He didn't have one shell with him!
He was real quiet on the ride back to camp. :)

MCgunner
September 23, 2012, 02:48 PM
saturno_v

I do not limit myself to inferior factory ammo. I have a press and dies.

Putting in another way, I do not believe the 7mm RM has a range edge in power over the 30-06 when hunting deer....

DEER hunting, either will carry enough energy. ELK OTOH, the .30-06 will drop below 1500 ft lbs way before the 7 mag when loaded with the best HUNTING bullets in the caliber simply because the 7 is starting out with more and is retaining more via superior BCs.

I was thinkin' about what I'd said in an earlier post last night in bed, where I said that by 800 yards, the 7 mag had passed the 300 mag in that "American Rifleman" article. I think actually what they said was it caught up to the 300 by 800 yards, that's 300 mag, not .30-06. They prefaced their argument for the 7 by stating most riflemen can shoot it due to its lack of heavy recoil much better than they can the big .30. I don't think that's an end all argument in favor of the 7 over the .30 mag, though, because if you shoot as much as you SHOULD, you'll get used to the .30 and shoot it just as well. Just that lots of hunters are NOT shooters, I can see that. But, comparing the 7 to the .30-06......not saying the 06 is a bad choice, HECK no, but the 7 has more juice when shooting the best hunting bullets (BC considered) at max velocities. I mean, will you categorically state that the .30-06 carries more energy than the .300 Win Mag "American Rifleman" was comparing the big 7 to in that article? If so, I give up...ROFLMAO!

As to ammo availability, well, I carry my own reloads, usually 100 rounds minimum on a hunting trip and I usually have a spare rifle, too. That spare rifle came in handy oce for me. I have 3 rifles that are excellent for deer/hog size game...7mm Rem Mag, .308 (my favorite) and .257 Roberts (sentimental favorite deer rifle). If I remember to bring along two rifles, you think I'm going to forget the ammo? I'm getting old, but I ain't lost it THAT far, yet. :rolleyes: Such hunts don't come all that often for me. I mostly hunt my own place anymore. I trek to Waco every year since my college buddy and I started hunting opener of dove season together on an annual basis 40 years ago in 1972. I have yet to forget my shotgun shells even though I can buy dove loads anywhere. :D

I'm sure none of you hunters would even consider owning a .257 Roberts...ammo availability ya know. Well, trust me, YOUR loss. :rolleyes:

buck460XVR
September 23, 2012, 03:44 PM
Choosing a rifle because ammunition is available at Walmart is about the silliest thing I've ever heard.


Of course it is. That is why nobody here has suggested to the OP to chose a rifle that way. All I have read is folks are sayin'(me included) is that if there are 5 calibers/platforms available, that all perform the same, that cost and availability of ammo should be a consideration. Maybe it's not to you, but to many, it is important. I'm bettin cost and availability are the reasons you drive a vehicle powered by either gas or diesel as opposed to one powered by LP, even tho the LP vehicles are more efficient and better for the enviromnet. Silly way to choose? No, not at all, money talks.




Life is too short to hunt with what everybody else is using.


Ahhhh, there it is. The OP should not use what everyone else is using....hmmmmmmmmm. What should he use then? What you use? Just because the majority of turkey hunters use 12ga shotguns, that's the best argument not to use one? Because the majority of muzzle-loaders use .50 cal, you suggest it's better to be different? I haven't used a 30-06 since I retired the M1917 ten years ago in favor of handguns. I have no dog in this fight, nor am I biased. I'm just giving real world reasons why the average one gun/one hunt a year hunter will not hamper themselves by choosing an '06 over some odd-ball hard to get ammo for caliber. Even if they are "what everybody else is using.".

Alaska444
September 23, 2012, 05:19 PM
30-06 is still the best all around North American rifle for one reason, it is the most versatile high powered rifle ever made. Accurate, powerful and ubiquitous. Being able to secure ammunition is absolutely an important aspect of being the most versatile rifle available.

I don't currently own one, but when I get tired of the recoil on my Browning BLR in .300 WSM, that will be on the top of my list to replace it. Most of my friends here in Idaho hunt with a 30-06 as well. Great gun and likely to remain the most popular and versatile high powered rifles out there. You just can't compete with success.

MCgunner
September 23, 2012, 05:32 PM
30-06 is still the best all around North American rifle for one reason, it is the most versatile high powered rifle ever made. Accurate, powerful and ubiquitous. Being able to secure ammunition is absolutely an important aspect of being the most versatile rifle available.

If the .30-06 had never existed, I'd still have killed all the game I've shot in 50 years, because for some odd reason, I've never needed a .30-06 for hunting deer or hogs. Odd, seeing as it's the only rifle ever made that is good enough for some folks here. Any other caliber seems worthless in comparison. :rolleyes:

Of course, this is off the OP's topic. .30-06 isn't even a consideration, only 3 cartridges were posed originally. Of those three, I think there's a consensus on the .308. :D

ErieLurker
September 23, 2012, 05:36 PM
Sgt R wrote:


Before I run out and purchase my first .308, would anyone care to make a convincing case for .243, .270, or some other similar cartridge?

Thanks,
R



This is maybe one of the best arguments I've ever seen made for the .270 Winchester, from an elk guide and hunter of 40-some years' experience:

http://montanaelkhunting.blogspot.ca/2009/12/270-winchester-for-elk-hunting.html

He's also a fan of the .30-06 but prefers the .270 because of its lesser recoil. Most interestingly, considering his infantry background, he's not a fan of the .308 Winchester for elk hunting.

Alaska444
September 23, 2012, 05:44 PM
If the .30-06 had never existed, I'd still have killed all the game I've shot in 50 years, because for some odd reason, I've never needed a .30-06 for hunting deer or hogs. Odd, seeing as it's the only rifle ever made that is good enough for some folks here. Any other caliber seems worthless in comparison. :rolleyes:

Of course, this is off the OP's topic. .30-06 isn't even a consideration, only 3 cartridges were posed originally. Of those three, I think there's a consensus on the .308. :D
Dear McGunner,

The OP is all around cartridge for North American game. Yes, the OP did mention three he was "interested in," but I believe the consensus if you review all the posts is absolutely 30-06 as an all around rifle as a recommendation to add to his consideration.

When it comes to all North American game, while the .308 is a great round, I would rather have a 30-06 than a .308 with a bear coming at me. I would rather have a 30-06 than a .308 for a large bull moose hunt. Not putting down the .308 at all, but for an all around North American cartridge for large and small game, who can argue with 30-06 at the top of that list?

Interestingly, to date, I have never owned a 30-06 myself, but it is still on my list one of these days when I don't like shooting my .300 WSM. You don't have to own a 30-06 to recognize it's special place as an all around rifle.

MCgunner
September 23, 2012, 06:01 PM
Mmm, well, a .308 AR10 would be a pretty forceful deterrent to a bear attack, I'd think. That's more an argument for a semi auto than for the caliber, i suppose. Not too many Kodiaks in my neck of the woods. Come to think of it, no black bear here, either. :D Just as likely to get trampled by an elephant. Guess I need a .600 NE for that, are some elephant up in San Antonio....Breckenridge park. :D

Okay, getting silly. I mean, choose what ya want, I just like to argue and I do honestly think the supposed superiority of the .30-06 is quite over-blown. I've already mentioned the 7 mag recoils the same and carries more energy farther. There are others, short magnums, .338 magnums, etc.

Oh, yeah, I know, Podunk, Alaska's hardware store only carries .30-06 cause no one owns anything else. :rolleyes:

Bear defense, another thought...

I was in Waco a few weeks back dove hunting and my friend breaks out this AK with a funky sliding stock on it. He proceeds to explain, you place your trigger finger across here, push forward on the forward grip, and it's a full auto. Well, it was kinda fun and, yeah, it fired at a full auto rate even though the sear is an un-modified semi auto unit. It's completely legal, all modifications are actually to the STOCK, not even the action of the gun. It was controllable. I filled the center of a 55 gallon drum with lead from about 25 yards quite easily and the 20 round mag was empty, seemed, before I even got started good. LOL! I was thinkin' about practical applications of this thing, 50 round drum mag in bear country. Hmmm, 7.62x39 ain't the worlds hottest round, but if you hit a bear with 50 of 'em, it's gotta hurt just a little bit. :D

But, alas, to practice would mean I'd have to spend a LOT of money on ammo. LOL!

Off topic...okay, shut down all ammo production and convert to .30-06 production and declare it the only legal centerfire rifle ammunition...case closed. But, one request, could we keep rimfire production lines going, please? Might not be the answer to bear defense in Alaska, but it sure is fun to shoot and I cannot roll my own.

Alaska444
September 23, 2012, 06:07 PM
Mmm, well, a .308 AR10 would be a pretty forceful deterrent to a bear attack, I'd think. That's more an argument for a semi auto than for the caliber, i suppose. Not too many Kodiaks in my neck of the woods. Come to think of it, no black bear here, either. :D Just as likely to get trampled by an elephant. Guess I need a .600 NE for that, are some elephant up in San Antonio....Breckenridge park. :D

Okay, getting silly. I mean, choose what ya want, I just like to argue and I do honestly think the supposed superiority of the .30-06 is quite over-blown. I've already mentioned the 7 mag recoils the same and carries more energy farther. There are others, short magnums, .338 magnums, etc.

Oh, yeah, I know, Podunk, Alaska's hardware store only carries .30-06 cause no one owns anything else. :rolleyes:

Bear defense, another thought...

I was in Waco a few weeks back dove hunting and my friend breaks out this AK with a funky sliding stock on it. He proceeds to explain, you place your trigger finger across here, push forward on the forward grip, and it's a full auto. Well, it was kinda fun and, yeah, it fired at a full auto rate even though the sear is an un-modified semi auto unit. It's completely legal, all modifications are actually to the STOCK, not even the action of the gun. It was controllable. I filled the center of a 55 gallon drum with lead from about 25 yards quite easily and the 20 round mag was empty, seemed, before I even got started good. LOL! I was thinkin' about practical applications of this thing, 50 round drum mag in bear country. Hmmm, 7.62x39 ain't the worlds hottest round, but if you hit a bear with 50 of 'em, it's gotta hurt just a little bit. :D

But, alas, to practice would mean I'd have to spend a LOT of money on ammo. LOL!

Off topic...okay, shut down all ammo production and convert to .30-06 production and declare it the only legal centerfire rifle ammunition...case closed. But, one request, could we keep rimfire production lines going, please? Might not be the answer to bear defense in Alaska, but it sure is fun to shoot and I cannot roll my own.
Not really what I was stating. The .308 is not considered a bear defense gun with many experts placing 30-06 as the minimum at about 3000 ft-pds of muzzle energy. That is one reason why the 30-06 is considered an all around cartridge competing even with the big magnums. Many guides will allow a 30-06 up in Alaska but I don't believe they will allow many folks to take a .308 instead. That would be a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

In any case, enjoy your .308. I am sure it works well for what you wish to use it for.

God bless,

Alaska444

MCgunner
September 23, 2012, 06:14 PM
Hmm, well, 7 mag 3300 ft lbs at the muzzle and it distances the .30-06 the further off is the target, all for the same recoil force.

Chaching....money in the bank. :D My original argument.

SOMEone on this board had a .450 marlin? He lived on Kodiak Island? The gun had been converted to fire a .410 as well as the .450 round and he'd had a TC contender external choke threaded to the barrel for use with .410. Man, THAT gun sounded versatile!!!!! Not only bear defense, but you could shoot grouse with it, too. :D

Alaska444
September 23, 2012, 06:20 PM
Hmm, well, 7 mag 3300 ft lbs at the muzzle and it distances the .30-06 the further off is the target, all for the same recoil force.

Chaching....money in the bank. :D My original argument.

SOMEone on this board had a .450 marlin? He lived on Kodiak Island? The gun had been converted to fire a .410 as well as the .450 round and he'd had a TC contender external choke threaded to the barrel for use with .410. Man, THAT gun sounded versatile!!!!! Not only bear defense, but you could shoot grouse with it, too. :D
.410 and .450 in the same gun is versatile for sure.:D

MCgunner
September 23, 2012, 06:25 PM
Oh, I remember now, he was loading his shot loads in .450 brass and crimping over a gas check or some such. Said it tossed a decent pattern and he was working on the shotgun shell part of things to improve it.

Anyway, you won't find THAT ammo at the Podunk Hardware. :D

savanahsdad
September 24, 2012, 01:55 AM
are we done with the 30-06 vs .308win joke yet :banghead::banghead::banghead: with a .308win you only give up 120 to 150fps (in 150gr or 165gr) and you gain a lighter rifle with less recoil and the ammo is lighter and cost the same or less with some brands , you will find more target rifles in 308 than you will in 30-06 , M1 Garand vs M14 ???? anyone :banghead::banghead:
here is my cal list , 25wssm, 270win, 7mm-08, 7mmWSM, 7.62X39 .308win, 32rem, 35rem, 44mag, , see something missing ?? nope me neather !!:neener:

savanahsdad
September 24, 2012, 02:08 AM
OP here...

Thanks for the discussion, y'all. I wasn't sure if .300 BLK could hang with the other two, but I figured I'd ask anyway. It seems the answer is a fairly definitive "no."

The choice between .308 and 7mm/08 was a toss up, but it sounds like a wash in the performance department, with .308 having an advantage in price and availability. That was what I expected to hear, but thanks for the second opinions.

I had already removed the 30-06 from consideration for my own reasons, but I do appreciate those suggestions.

Before I run out and purchase my first .308, would anyone care to make a convincing case for .243, .270, or some other similar cartridge?

Thanks,
R
I see you aded a 243 and a 270 as maybe's , I was leaning 7mm-08 as I posted before but hummmm I have a 7mm-08 and love it but I have 3 270win's I now I'm thinking of changing my mind,

Captcurt
September 24, 2012, 07:41 AM
Hands down it is the .30-06 Springfield, or the "thirty-aught-six", or the "thirty-oh-six", or the 7.6263mm or what ever you want to call it, that`s your standard, but that`s my .02 cents...............& jmr40, NO !
If we are talking North America if a 30-06 can't kill it, I don't need to be shooting at it. Doesn't matter if it is mice, men or moose.

ZeroJunk
September 24, 2012, 08:07 AM
are we done with the 30-06 vs .308win joke yet :banghead::banghead::banghead: with a .308win you only give up 120 to 150fps (in 150gr or 165gr) and you gain a lighter rifle with less recoil and the ammo is lighter and cost the same or less with some brands , you will find more target rifles in 308 than you will in 30-06 , M1 Garand vs M14 ???? anyone :banghead::banghead:
here is my cal list , 25wssm, 270win, 7mm-08, 7mmWSM, 7.62X39 .308win, 32rem, 35rem, 44mag, , see something missing ?? nope me neather !!:neener:
You need a 30-06 in there.:neener:

JohnM
September 24, 2012, 08:33 AM
<are we done with the 30-06 vs .308win joke yet >

No list of useful medium bore rifles can be written without including the 30-06.

CraigC
September 24, 2012, 10:25 AM
That is why nobody here has suggested to the OP to chose a rifle that way.
Nonsense, several have suggested buying a rifle in a chambering easily fed from the local corner store. We have this cool thing called the internet. It's weird, we find what we're looking for, sometimes no matter how obscure, we enter in our address and credit card info and a few days later it arrives.


The OP should not use what everyone else is using....hmmmmmmmmm. What should he use then? What you use?
All I'm saying is that he shouldn't be afraid to use something not suggested in one of the canned "buy a .30-06" responses. Good Lord man, you hunt with a .460, you know all about trying something different. The point is that there are a HELL of a lot of cartridges to choose from and you don't buy to "buy a .30-06" because everybody else has one. If the 7x57 appeals to you, get one. If the 6.5x55 appeals to you, get one. If the 7mm08 appeals to you, get one. If the .280Rem appeals to you, get one. If the .303 appeals to you, get one. There are dozens of cartridges to choose from. Obviously there are a lot of hunters completely satisfied with their safe choice. Some of us like to try different things and understand that just because everyone is doing it, doesn't make it good. Think for yourself.

Same with 12ga shotguns, .50cal muzzleloaders, .357Mag revolvers, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Live a little, don't make the easy choice.

MCgunner
September 24, 2012, 10:39 AM
Well, I guess the OP can gain some knowledge from all the bickering. ROFL

CraigC
September 25, 2012, 06:57 PM
Why does friendly debate so often get disregarded as "bickering"? Are we just supposed to agree all the time or what???

1911Tuner
September 25, 2012, 07:30 PM
The point I was trying to make. Is the 30-06 the only versatile gun out there? No, as has been stated...

And I alluded to that a little further down in the post.

Choosing a rifle because ammunition is available at Walmart is about the silliest thing I've ever heard.

Until you're slap outta ammo and you can't find a box of 7.33X55.25 Murphy Improved and the shelf is overstocked with the boring old standby that strikes the same blow and does exactly the same job. At that point, the silliness changes places while you hear a refrain to that song play over and over in your head:

-I know what I was feelin'...but what was I thinkin'?-

Call me old-fashioned, but I'll stick to what I can find at Bubba and Billy Bob's Gas and Go Fish Bait and Firearms gittin' place at 2200 hours on a Saturday night. Rifle or pistol.

Hunt480
September 25, 2012, 08:09 PM
I think they broke the mold when they made the 35 Marlin lever gun...Of all the nice semi's & bolt guns I have, I always grab the ole 35 Marlin. It carrys good, handles well and shoots great...I actually named that old gun "Marlin Perkins". If you see me in the woods you will probably see that ole 35 Marlin Perkins...

savanahsdad
September 25, 2012, 09:33 PM
<are we done with the 30-06 vs .308win joke yet >

No list of useful medium bore rifles can be written without including the 30-06.
you may want to go read the OP's post #38

Alaska444
September 25, 2012, 09:36 PM
you may want to go read the OP's post #38
It would be interesting to see why the original poster removed the 30-06 from his list since it truly is right in the arena he is looking.

savanahsdad
September 25, 2012, 09:45 PM
You need a 30-06 in there.:neener:
you did see I have a 308win , right? ,,,,,and a 7mag and a 35rem so I got the bases covered no need for a 30-06 , and in post #38 the OP said he didn't want a 30-06 ,looks like he is now leaning 308win or 270 , both great picks

Alaska444
September 25, 2012, 10:06 PM
you did see I have a 308win , right? ,,,,,and a 7mag and a 35rem so I got the bases covered no need for a 30-06 , and in post #38 the OP said he didn't want a 30-06 ,looks like he is now leaning 308win or 270 , both great picks
The OP lives in South Carolina where a .308 will work just fine for just about everything there. The .308 here in Idaho is quite a bit on the short side of what you might need with the bears we have here. Most up here start with 30-06 as the minimum caliber and about half of my friends hunt with the 30-06.

On the other hand, the 30-06 works just fine in South Carolina as well. Not sure why he wrote it off, but that is his choice.

savanahsdad
September 25, 2012, 11:22 PM
realy ? :scrutiny:I was just in Jerome ID last week , and ended up talking guns , and in Idaho Falls ID, 270's and 308's are big there , then in Three Forks MT lots of 270's and 308's there too, found no one shooting 7mm-08's but a lot of big mag,s And I have family (inlaws) in Bellgrade MT and they all hunt , Elk, Mule Deer , White Tail , Antelope, and American Bison, with 270's ,, not that a 30-06 wouldn't work , but to say in is a minimum is a strech, :scrutiny:

horsemen61
September 25, 2012, 11:27 PM
Id go with a 30 -06:)

Alaska444
September 25, 2012, 11:37 PM
realy ? :scrutiny:I was just in Jerome ID last week , and ended up talking guns , and in Idaho Falls ID, 270's and 308's are big there , then in Three Forks MT lots of 270's and 308's there too, found no one shooting 7mm-08's but a lot of big mag,s And I have family (inlaws) in Bellgrade MT and they all hunt , Elk, Mule Deer , White Tail , Antelope, and American Bison, with 270's ,, not that a 30-06 wouldn't work , but to say in is a minimum is a strech, :scrutiny:
Well, last time I checked which was a few days ago when I drove through it, Idaho Falls is prairie country, not deep woods with grizzly bear walking around. More antelope than bear in that area.

Three Forks MT and Bellgrade MT are in the eastern part of Montana which is likewise farmland and prairie as well. I see you didn't list grizzly bear, black bear or mountain lions all of which we have in the Idaho panhandle as well as way too many Mackenzie Valley wolves.

So, I will stick to the truth of what most up here in the Idaho panhandle talk about, 30-06 and up for their elk and bear/defense. Jerome Idaho likewise has long range shots out in this open farm land with antelope among the animals hunted there. That is not at all like the heavily forested areas up here just a couple hours below the Canadian border.

One of my friends is a .270 only hunter, but he has had ribbing for that choice for years in this area. Funny thing, he has shot more elk than just about anyone else in the area, so he gets the last laugh. As you know, the ballistics of the .270 and the 30-06 overlap in many of their loads.

I don't no anyone up here with a .308. One of the teenagers has a .243 for deer, but I am sure when he finally goes for elk, he will leave that behind. So, yes, 30-06 is considered the minimum rifle by many up here. My elk rifle is a .300 WSM and one of my other friends uses only a .300 WM. So, knowing your hunting grounds dictates what rifles are common. Once again, up here, I don't know anyone that hunts with a .308.

Lastly, for an all around rifle good for any part of the US and Canada, you just can't get a whole lot better than a 30-06 from North Carolina to the wilds of Alaska. Even though the OP left out the 30-06 option, who can deny it has earned it's place in history as well as still being one of the most popular and useful calibers today.

savanahsdad
September 25, 2012, 11:57 PM
can't say I have ever talked guns in the uper-panhandle, I stop in smelterville ID alot , but just to shop , however it is mutch like Belgrade (yellow Stone) only about 325 east of you , and lots of bear just ask the campers in Yellowstone lol.... anyway you would not be under gun with a 308 , so close to the good old 06 I see no need to have a 30-06,

Hey so what happen to the OP I'd like to know why he has counted out the 30-06 , I know why I did but I didn't start this post,

Alaska444
September 26, 2012, 12:01 AM
can't say I have ever talked guns in the uper-panhandle, I stop in smelterville ID alot , but just to shop , however it is mutch like Belgrade (yellow Stone) only about 325 east of you , and lots of bear just ask the campers in Yellowstone lol.... anyway you would not be under gun with a 308 , so close to the good old 06 I see no need to have a 30-06,

Hey so what happen to the OP I'd like to know why he has counted out the 30-06 , I know why I did but I didn't start this post,
+1, .308 isn't on my list, but not to discount the merit of that caliber, just not my choice. Your question about WHY the OP discounted the 30-06 is probably the most interesting aspect of this thread.

If folks feel comfortable in bear country with a .308, more power to them. Not my cup of tea with grizzly walking around these woods. It seems that is a pretty common sentiment up here.

savanahsdad
September 26, 2012, 12:13 AM
in yellowstone they think all you need is pepper-spray :what: here in WI we have Black bear , wolfs and a few cougars so most deer rifles will do just find ,I carry a 44 or 357 when bow-hunting ,

I was thinking the OP counted out the 06 cause he had listed short actions , but then he listed the 270,?

Alaska444
September 26, 2012, 01:34 AM
in yellowstone they think all you need is pepper-spray :what: here in WI we have Black bear , wolfs and a few cougars so most deer rifles will do just find ,I carry a 44 or 357 when bow-hunting ,

I was thinking the OP counted out the 06 cause he had listed short actions , but then he listed the 270,?
Deer rifles are a better defense than just about any handgun most of us carry. I would rather have a .308 than a .44 magnum in a bear defense encounter. None the less, I would rather have a 30-06 than a .308 in the same situation.

I can't disparage pepper spray as long as it is combined with an effective firearm of one sort or another. I carry my .357 daily, and I add my .44 magnum when in the woods if I don't have a rifle with me.

Back to the OP, I think a lot of us would like to know why the 30-06 was excluded since it is would never be a wrong choice for the stated uses.

savanahsdad
September 26, 2012, 01:46 AM
Deer rifles are a better defense than just about any handgun most of us carry. I would rather have a .308 than a .44 magnum in a bear defense encounter. None the less, I would rather have a 30-06 than a .308 in the same situation.

I can't disparage pepper spray as long as it is combined with an effective firearm of one sort or another. I carry my .357 daily, and I add my .44 magnum when in the woods if I don't have a rifle with me.

Back to the OP, I think a lot of us would like to know why the 30-06 was excluded since it is would never be a wrong choice for the stated uses.
well I'm not carrying a rifle to go bow-hunting

Alaska444
September 26, 2012, 01:49 AM
well I'm not carrying a rifle to go bow-hunting
Sounds like we carry the same handguns when we don't have a rifle.

Take care and safe hunting.

God bless,

Alaska444

Jim Watson
September 26, 2012, 03:17 AM
I was thinkin' about what I'd said in an earlier post last night in bed, where I said that by 800 yards, the 7 mag had passed the 300 mag in that "American Rifleman" article. I think actually what they said was it caught up to the 300 by 800

Back when the American Rifleman was a little bit technical, they had a test of a Winchester Model 70 in 7mm Remington Magnum. Why did they shoot a Winchester rifle in a Remington caliber? Who knows?
Any road, they gave actual chronograph data for the loads shot. As I recall, three out of the five factory 7mm RM loads used gave LOWER velocity than .30-06 I have shot in my own old M70. It is going to be a LONG way down range before the higher BC of 7mm over .30 catches up enough to matter. The other two were somewhat faster than similar bullet weights in .30-06 but I doubt by enough to matter at hunting ranges. I don't care what a hunting rifle is doing at 800 yards. And my target .308 does well enough I don't have to plot and plan over that, either.

1911Tuner
September 26, 2012, 06:38 AM
It is going to be a LONG way down range before the higher BC of 7mm over .30 catches up enough to matter. The other two were somewhat faster than similar bullet weights in .30-06 but I doubt by enough to matter at hunting ranges.

This.

I often hear debates...sometimes heated debates...concerning the advantages of the 7-08 over the .308 cartridge...but the two are so similar that neither has a clear advantage over the other at any sensible or practical range. The proponents of the 7-08 speak of fanciful distances up to 600 or even 700 yards, but I'm not about to take a shot at any animal at those ranges with either cartridge, so it's a moot point.

ZeroJunk
September 26, 2012, 07:49 AM
For hunting big game I have never seen a great deal of logic in necking down anything. Just something to toy around with when you are bored. Makes sense for varmints or if you are a target shooter I suppose.

And, a 308 is a fine cartridge but it's only practical advantage over a 30-06 is a potentially lighter rifle like a little Kimber or something.

CraigC
September 26, 2012, 11:00 AM
Until you're slap outta ammo and you can't find a box of 7.33X55.25 Murphy Improved and the shelf is overstocked with the boring old standby that strikes the same blow and does exactly the same job. At that point, the silliness changes places while you hear a refrain to that song play over and over in your head:
Has it ever actually happened? Folks repeat this stuff about lost or forgotten ammo all the time but has this ever actually happened to anyone repeating this??? I guess I better go trade in my .405 for a .30/06 and spend the rest of my life hunting with a cartridge for which I have zero affinity, for just in the 1 in a billion chance that I might someday need ammo for it from Walmart. Please. There are myriad rifles chambered in myriad cartridges that are wonderful to shoot, handload for and hunt with that are NOT available at Walmart. Which is kinda a lot of the reason for handloading.

If I had to hunt with a .30/06......I wouldn't. For some folks, what they hunt with and how they hunt is at least as important as hunting itself. Which is why not everyone wears camo and hunts with a stainless synthetic .30/06 with a 3-9x scope. Some of us use leverguns. Some use iron sights. Some use handguns. Some use muzzleloaders. Some even use flintlocks and archery equipment!!!

At least you won't have to compete with me for ammo at the Walmart sporting goods counter. :rolleyes:

savanahsdad
September 26, 2012, 12:30 PM
This.

I often hear debates...sometimes heated debates...concerning the advantages of the 7-08 over the .308 cartridge...but the two are so similar that neither has a clear advantage over the other at any sensible or practical range. The proponents of the 7-08 speak of fanciful distances up to 600 or even 700 yards, but I'm not about to take a shot at any animal at those ranges with either cartridge, so it's a moot point.
were both wrong on this one , see my post #49, I miss spoke , not by much , , but I'm home now and found my Fur-Fish-Game , that ran the test on 260rem-vs-7mm-08-vs-308win, the test used 150gr ,not 140gr , out to 200yards the 308 has more energy , at 300 yards the 260 and 7mm-08 have caught up and at 400 yards they have past up the 308win in terms of velocity and energy, not 600 or 700 yards .
if you are hunting over a corn/bean field say 40ac thats 1325' or 441yards the 7mm-08 would be the better pick not only more energy at that range but less drop and drift,
if your hunting shorter ranges the 308win would have a slight up side, the 308win would also be a better pick if you are hunting bigger game as you can get them in heavier bullets,
so one is realy not better than the other , I would go with the 7mm-08 in my neck of the woods ,I have shots that range frof 75 to 425 yards , and it kicks less

that Fur-Fish-Game article is Nov.2010. page 40 , great article

22-rimfire
September 26, 2012, 01:10 PM
There is no true all around caliber unless you go with overkill for the majority of the game animals. That caliber would likely be something like the 375 H&H or 378 Weatherby Mag. For me who has no plans of hunting Brown Bears in Alaska, something in the 30-06 > 270 range win works for most things. 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win mags etc are okay as long as you are willing to tolerate the recoil on the higher power ones.

savanahsdad
September 26, 2012, 01:42 PM
There is no true all around caliber unless you go with overkill for the majority of the game animals. That caliber would likely be something like the 375 H&H or 378 Weatherby Mag. For me who has no plans of hunting Brown Bears in Alaska, something in the 30-06 > 270 range win works for most things. 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win mags etc are okay as long as you are willing to tolerate the recoil on the higher power ones.
right , but the OP listed 308 and 7mm-08, , and then later brought up the 243 and the 270,
as for recoil on big mags , my 7mmWSM kicks about the same as my 270. , and any gun that punches a hole through a 1/2" steel plate , is in the overkill range, I got friend that hunts with a 338 Lapua Mag !!! over kill ,,, you bet !

ZeroJunk
September 26, 2012, 01:58 PM
There is no true all around caliber unless you go with overkill for the majority of the game animals. That caliber would likely be something like the 375 H&H or 378 Weatherby Mag. For me who has no plans of hunting Brown Bears in Alaska, something in the 30-06 > 270 range win works for most things. 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win mags etc are okay as long as you are willing to tolerate the recoil on the higher power ones.
Put the usual suspect's name in a hat and pull one out. The end results in the freezer will be the same.

ApacheCoTodd
September 26, 2012, 03:53 PM
Since I don't think of critters below Coyote much of as game - I gotta go 30-06. Can be hard on stew pot bunnies and squirrels but still...

Enough when used, loaded and selected well for anything and too much for very little.

Exceptional range of platforms in the caliber. Quality surplus through high end customs.

Unmatched options in projectiles.

Controllable and non-fatiguing in use.

saturno_v
September 26, 2012, 05:32 PM
Back when the American Rifleman was a little bit technical, they had a test of a Winchester Model 70 in 7mm Remington Magnum. Why did they shoot a Winchester rifle in a Remington caliber? Who knows?
Any road, they gave actual chronograph data for the loads shot. As I recall, three out of the five factory 7mm RM loads used gave LOWER velocity than .30-06 I have shot in my own old M70. It is going to be a LONG way down range before the higher BC of 7mm over .30 catches up enough to matter. The other two were somewhat faster than similar bullet weights in .30-06 but I doubt by enough to matter at hunting ranges. I don't care what a hunting rifle is doing at 800 yards. And my target .308 does well enough I don't have to plot and plan over that, either.



I did already show McGunner the data at 500y for the best 30-06 and 7mm RM hunting commercial rounds I could find, from Double Tap (not your ordinary Remchesteral stuff) using Nosler bullets of various weights....no energy differences.....still he keeps making his point about the supposedly higher effectiveness of the 7mm RM at long range for hunting.....

He responded that he does not limit himself to commercial loadings, he has a press and dies...fair enough, you can reload and squeeze even more performance out of a 30-06 too.....

And I totally agree with you that nobody would use either caliber beyond 600 yards (and that is really pushing it) on deer.....so totally moot point

On the other side, talking about versatility, for bear defense would you rather facing an angry bruin with a 7mm RM or with a 30-06 loaded with 220-240 grainers??

saturno_v
September 26, 2012, 05:50 PM
Since I don't think of critters below Coyote much of as game - I gotta go 30-06. Can be hard on stew pot bunnies and squirrels but still...

Enough when used, loaded and selected well for anything and too much for very little.

Exceptional range of platforms in the caliber. Quality surplus through high end customs.

Unmatched options in projectiles.

Controllable and non-fatiguing in use.


Amen to that.....;)

Alaska444
September 26, 2012, 06:01 PM
I did already show McGunner the data at 500y for the best 30-06 and 7mm RM hunting commercial rounds I could find, from Double Tap (not your ordinary Remchesteral stuff) using Nosler bullets of various weights....no energy differences.....still he keeps making his point about the supposedly higher effectiveness of the 7mm RM at long range for hunting.....

He responded that he does not limit himself to commercial loadings, he has a press and dies...fair enough, you can reload and squeeze even more performance out of a 30-06 too.....

And I totally agree with you that nobody would use either caliber beyond 600 yards (and that is really pushing it) on deer.....so totally moot point

On the other side, talking about versatility, for bear defense would you rather facing an angry bruin with a 7mm RM or with a 30-06 loaded with 220-240 grainers??
That really is the issue especially where we live in northern Idaho. Sadly, many of the bear attack victims are hunters who spook a bear. In that case, you have to have something that has not only the hunting ability to drop a deer with a heart lung shot, but also to drop a bear in full charge. For me, that puts the 30-06 as my minimum hunting rifle.

Sheepdog1968
September 26, 2012, 06:58 PM
The 30-06 as a general rifle that should meet my needs in the lower 48. Personally, I also often hunt with a 30-30 mostly because I love a lever action. I like what Boddington wrote about the 30-06 so I'm posting the link here.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-30-06-still-americas-best/

Pilot
September 26, 2012, 07:03 PM
7MM-08, or 7MM Mauser.

22-rimfire
September 26, 2012, 08:18 PM
The '06 is a great all around choice, no question. I just don't like to recommend one caliber when so many are very similar in preformance. The 243 is too small in my opinion for an all around caliber in the Lower 48. I like the 270 win a lot. That is what I use for my deer rifle when I use a rifle. I don't so much use a rifle often any more. I just don't really care that much if I score. I just like to be out there and enjoy the hunt. I use handguns more than anything.

MCgunner
September 26, 2012, 08:35 PM
7MM-08, or 7MM Mauser.

I have always had a soft spot for the 7x57. GREAT cartridge and very capable and light on the shoulder. It can handle the 175 grain RN which is the only thing my Spanish 1916 would shoot due to fast twist. The gun was kinda cool, but stupidly, I sold it. GREAT rifle to 250 yards even with that round nose pill and it was a great game stopper.

Alaska444
September 27, 2012, 12:52 AM
The '06 is a great all around choice, no question. I just don't like to recommend one caliber when so many are very similar in preformance. The 243 is too small in my opinion for an all around caliber in the Lower 48. I like the 270 win a lot. That is what I use for my deer rifle when I use a rifle. I don't so much use a rifle often any more. I just don't really care that much if I score. I just like to be out there and enjoy the hunt. I use handguns more than anything.
I just spoke at church tonight with my rancher friend who has hunted elk, bear, deer for years here in northern Idaho almost exclusively with a .270, 130 gr bullets. He noted that the .270 was developed in response to the popularity of the 30-06 as well as the .280 which never really caught on. The loads were all very similar. It is no surprise that there is so much overlap since this was the market place response to the popularity of the 30-06.

I guess imitation is the greatest flattery.

RevGeo
September 27, 2012, 10:37 AM
Alaska444 - I've lived and hunted in the Idaho panhandle for almost 40 years now. I have several friends who shoot everything with a .308. The difference between the .308 and the '06 is academic at best. Having said that I don't own, have never owned and probably will never own a .308 as I have other calibers that do the same thing. But that doesn't mean the .308 won't work for moose, elk and bears. And like I said, I know plenty of guys around here that hunt everything with their .308 rifles.
Bear defense? Personally I've never seen a grizzly here in N. Idaho. I know that there are some out there, but you have to admit that very few people around here have even seen one, much less having to worry about defending themselves from an attack. The recent incident near Bonners Ferry, where the guy killed his buddy while trying to shoot the grizzly off of him, was a tragic comedy of errors. I worry more about running into a pissed off moose than any bear that roams the Panhandle. As a matter of fact I got chased off the North Fork of the CD'A river near Big Hank campground by a cow moose while I was fly fishing last summer. It's funny now but it sure as hell wasn't funny when it happened. If one was to be charged by a grizzly and had to shoot it at 25 yards or so the difference between a .308 and a 30-06 disappears. Lets be realistic here. Bear defense is the last thing I'm thinking about while hunting our woods. If it happens it happens, sort of like being struck by lightning or winning the Power Ball. I guess you'd have to dance with who ya brung.

To the OP - For goodness sake man, go buy either the .308 or the 7mm-08, buy a couple of boxes of ammo, sight it in to hit 2" high at 100 yards and go hunting. You can't go wrong either way.

saturno_v
September 27, 2012, 10:44 AM
The difference between the .308 and the '06 is academic at best.

That is like saying that the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Winchester Magnum is academic at best.....

Can you shoot 220 and 240 grain with a 308??? Or shooting well anything over 180 gr.??

The fact that you a 308 work as well as a 30-06 in a broad range of situations does not means that the 2 cartridges are equal in capability....

CraigC
September 27, 2012, 11:17 AM
If you need 220gr-240gr loads in the .30-06, you need a bigger cartridge.

wyohome
September 27, 2012, 11:36 AM
^Exactly^ And anyone being charged by a bear won't be looking to find the 240 grain bear medicine.

X-Rap
September 27, 2012, 11:38 AM
You can get from 204-338 50 fps and 10 grs at a time with the same academic reasoning and each step will be spliting hairs.
I do not and will never subscribe to any notion of an all around cartridge for North America or any other place.
Anybody who has tried to download/upload for a single rifle probably has not been met with near the success that one would have with three seperate (min) cartridge rifle combinations like a 22, 6mm-25, 7mm-338. Having some quick change barrel is an option but IMO not a good one since buying barrel/scope ends up costing near what 3 good used guns would cost if not more.
119 posts and what? Anybody convinced of the perfect one yet?

saturno_v
September 27, 2012, 12:10 PM
If you need 220gr-240gr loads in the .30-06, you need a bigger cartridge

220 gr. is pretty common ammo for 30-06 from Remchesteral and found even at Wal Mart....

That said from 180 gr. up a stout -06 is very good big bear medicine...

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 12:14 PM
I think it is time for some of you to go read the OP's post again , he is not going to be hunting bear or moose , he is looking for a versatile round , not a perfect one, he MAY be takeing shots out too 400 yards , and he has counted out the 30-06 , his picks were 308win, 7mm-08 , 300blk , then later added 243 and 270, , with that said I'd go 270, 7mm-08, 308win, then 243 in that order and in that order only because of the 400 yard factor

JohnM
September 27, 2012, 12:16 PM
All this thread has shown is that for some strange reason some people don't like the 30-06.
Their misfortune, I personally have never met anyone who disparages that round like some here have.

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 12:25 PM
All this thread has shown is that for some strange reason some people don't like the 30-06.
Their misfortune, I personally have never met anyone who disparages that round like some here have.
nothing wrong with , works great has for over 100years , but the OP is laening to something else, would a 30-06 work for him ? maybe? but I shoot alot and I would not try a 400 yard shot with a 30-06 or a 308 and he is looking for round that might need to get out to 400 yards and remember he is looking at a HUNTING gun

Kyle M.
September 27, 2012, 12:30 PM
.375 H&H it's all you'll ever need now go buy one and go hunt.

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 12:44 PM
.375 H&H it's all you'll ever need now go buy one and go hunt.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::cuss:

I't would be nice to hear from the op , like to know if he got the 308 and if he is still leaning to a handi gun

Alaska444
September 27, 2012, 01:59 PM
.375 H&H it's all you'll ever need now go buy one and go hunt.
Can't argue with that.:D

CraigC
September 27, 2012, 02:37 PM
220 gr. is pretty common ammo for 30-06 from Remchesteral and found even at Wal Mart....
Indeed but it's not quite the deep penetrating Hammer of Thor that 'some' folks think it is.


That said from 180 gr. up a stout -06 is very good big bear medicine...
And up to 180gr is has ZERO advantage over a shorter and lighter .308. Along with all the other cartridges that do exactly the same job, without the Kool Aid.


Their misfortune, I personally have never met anyone who disparages that round like some here have.
Misfortune that some folks would rather think for themselves rather than run with the crowd???


Bottom line is that the .30/06 is not the best for anything. It does well in a number of roles but is not perfect for anything, regardless of popular opinion. There are better deer/antelope cartridges that fit into lighter rifles, shoot flatter and are easier on the shoulder. There are better large game cartridges that pack more punch with a bigger, heavier bullet. Let's be honest, who really wants to hunt everything "from mice to moose" with one rifle/cartridge? This ain't 1850 when all you needed was a horse and a pack mule to hunt the whole continent. It's 2012 and if you can afford to hunt all over North America, surely you can afford to have several rifles that are better suited to their particular tasks. Rather than one mediocre one.

Alaska444
September 27, 2012, 02:44 PM
Indeed but it's not quite the deep penetrating Hammer of Thor that 'some' folks think it is.



And up to 180gr is has ZERO advantage over a shorter and lighter .308. Along with all the other cartridges that do exactly the same job, without the Kool Aid.



Misfortune that some folks would rather think for themselves rather than run with the crowd???


Bottom line is that the .30/06 is not the best for anything. It does well in a number of roles but is not perfect for anything, regardless of popular opinion. There are better deer/antelope cartridges that fit into lighter rifles, shoot flatter and are easier on the shoulder. There are better large game cartridges that pack more punch with a bigger, heavier bullet. Let's be honest, who really wants to hunt everything "from mice to moose" with one rifle/cartridge? This ain't 1850 when all you needed was a horse and a pack mule to hunt the whole continent. It's 2012 and if you can afford to hunt all over North America, surely you can afford to have several rifles that are better suited to their particular tasks. Rather than one mediocre one.
Mediocre? Sorry, but my dad hunted almost exclusively in Alaska with his 30-06 and put several moose, dozens of caribou and three black bear on the family table feeding us hungry kids. Sorry, I believe your view of this great caliber is very much a minority view. It has and will continue to be the measure that all other calibers in this range are judged. .308 in Alaska, no thanks.

mdauben
September 27, 2012, 02:47 PM
Before I run out and purchase my first .308, would anyone care to make a convincing case for .243, .270, or some other similar cartridge?

The only reasons I can think of are (1) you are fairly recoil sensitive. The .308 isn't all that hard-kicking, but there are cartidges with less kick that are perfectly suitable for deer. THe .243 is probably the most recommended, but even the 7mm/08 is ligher recoling. (2) You don't want to use the same cartridge as everyone else. The .308 is a justifiably popular cartridge but some people just like to be different. The .257 Roberts, the .260 Remington, or the 6.5x55mm won't kill a deer any deader, but they are all good chartridges in their own right and its much less likely any of your hunting buddies will have one, too. Finally, (3) maybe you don't want a bolt action? There are some fine lever action rifles in proper chamberings that are well suited to most eastern hunting. The old .30-30, the .35 Remington, or even some pistol cartridges make fine woodlands deer getters.

saturno_v
September 27, 2012, 03:22 PM
Indeed but it's not quite the deep penetrating Hammer of Thor that 'some' folks think it is.


Well, people real life experiences say otherwise.....read this review for the 220 gr. Nosler partition bullet out of a 30-06


Chris S. of Juneau, AK

This bullet is truly a heavy weight performer king when it come to 30 cal. bullets. I took a nice 7 1/2 ft brown bear with this bullet in 30-06 (2550 fps) that was causing trouble around are camp near Yakutat, AK. the fall of 2001. Shot was taken at 40 yards broadside chest through the right shoulder. Dropped the bear in his tracks. The Nosler 220 Partition drove a ping pong ball size hole through the bear that exit through the shoulder. Impressive! And accurate! It is my go bullet when my shots will be less then 200 yards in the 30-06.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/427028/nosler-partition-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-220-grain-semi-spitzer-box-of-50

An old 1983 US Forest service study, posted already countless time on here, ranked the 30-06 basically #3 for big bear stopping effectiveness behind the big 400 magnums and the 375/338 magnums, the 308 was well behind...you do the math...

Try telling some of my elk and moose hunters range friends if the 30-06 220 gr does not penetrate like Thor's hammer and listen to their answers.....


And up to 180gr is has ZERO advantage over a shorter and lighter .308. Along with all the other cartridges that do exactly the same job, without the Kool Aid.


.....If up to well over 150 fps of difference for you is zero that means that the 300 Win Mag has zero advantage over the 30-06 as well......


Going back to the real world....the 30-06 can do as effectively everything the 308 does while the 308 cannot do all the 30-06 does as effectively...simple as that....

ZeroJunk
September 27, 2012, 03:36 PM
If a man wants to take a 30-06 case and neck it, shorten it, or whatever to something inferior to the original design because he wants to be different I understand completely.
I hunt with a 280 Ackley.

MCgunner
September 27, 2012, 03:42 PM
Lotsa .30-06 koolaid around here. :D Equals a .300 mag, eh?

:rolleyes:

Why doesn't everyone hunt elephant with a .30-06? I mean, why are there any other cartridge choices? It IS the deadliest cartridge known to mankind, after all. How did any game get taken BEFORE 1906?

</sarcasm>

Oh, well, where's my Hawken? Hawkens were doing the job near 100 years before WW1. :D

Then again, the bar that kilt Hatchet Jack was kilt by his Hawken first. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7nqxIdROsI

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 04:07 PM
this is what the OP said he was looking at , not an autoloader or a bolt 172590

172591 this why I said 7mm-08 or 270 , you only get one shot and he said he might shoot out to 400yards , this one is in 308win with a 4-16X44mm scope on, it if sighted in at 400 it would work but from 100 out too 400 you want something that shoots flater

MCgunner
September 27, 2012, 04:20 PM
I have connected on coyote near 400 yards with MY .308, just held over. 250 yard zero, but I can hold over for further. Have rangefinder, will travel. :D

With even a 270, a 400 yard zero is WELL beyond point blank range for deer (3").

saturno_v
September 27, 2012, 04:31 PM
Lotsa .30-06 koolaid around here. Equals a .300 mag, eh?



.....If someone equals 308 to 30-06 then by the same logic we can comfortably equal a 30-06 to a 300 Win Mag...

ZeroJunk
September 27, 2012, 04:39 PM
.....If someone equals 308 to 30-06 then by the same logic we can comfortably equal a 30-06 to a 300 Win Mag...
Exactly.

Sgt_R
September 27, 2012, 06:13 PM
OP here...

I discounted 30-06 because it's more than I need in my area, and I can get 90% of the performance for half the recoil in a .308 Win.

30-06 is a fine caliber, but it's more than I need to solve the problem as defined in the OP (< =400 yard shots @ < =elk sized game). If I ever move out west where larger animals or longer shots are a serious concern, then I'll buy a bigger rifle.

R

Sgt_R
September 27, 2012, 06:17 PM
Also... wow. 140 posts and counting? I had no idea...

R

Alaska444
September 27, 2012, 06:38 PM
OP here...

I discounted 30-06 because it's more than I need in my area, and I can get 90% of the performance for half the recoil in a .308 Win.

30-06 is a fine caliber, but it's more than I need to solve the problem as defined in the OP (<=400 yard shots @ <=elk sized game). If I ever move out west where larger animals or longer shots are a serious concern, then I'll buy a bigger rifle.

R
___________

Fair enough, that works for you, but a lot of folks would consider the .308 less than an all around caliber for all of north America. 30-06 fits that role well. Lot's of folks I know back east use the 30-06 as well. It truly is that all around caliber.

paintballdude902
September 27, 2012, 06:55 PM
35 whellen is where its at

mdauben
September 27, 2012, 07:07 PM
All this thread has shown is that for some strange reason some people don't like the 30-06
I think it's that lots of people actually read the original post and not just the thread title. ;)

The OP said he doesn't want a .30-06 which is one excellent reason to suggest something else. Everyone doesn't have to use the same rifle

For another reason he eliminated moose and big bears from his hunting list. If you eliminate the biggest NA game IMO some other calibers start to offer serious competition as "all around" rifles. That's not to say the .30-06 can't do the job but others can do just as well in smaller and/or lighter recoiling and/or flatter shooting combinations.

ApacheCoTodd
September 27, 2012, 07:57 PM
I think it's that lots of people actually read the original post and not just the thread title. ;)

The OP said he doesn't want a .30-06 which is one excellent reason to suggest something else. Everyone doesn't have to use the same rifle


Funny, I didn't see the -06 being excluded in the OP...

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 08:57 PM
Funny, I didn't see the -06 being excluded in the OP...
see post #38 by the OP

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 09:09 PM
Also... wow. 140 posts and counting? I had no idea...

R
yep , after you said you had counted out the beloved 06' the "30-06 is better than everything else war" got started ,OMG !!!!! it never ends ,

Is the handi rifle I posted the pic of in post #135 like what you are looking at, or were looking at, that one is 308

MCgunner
September 27, 2012, 09:14 PM
.....If someone equals 308 to 30-06 then by the same logic we can comfortably equal a 30-06 to a 300 Win Mag...

Well, okay, I can see THAT. The advantage the .30-06 has over the .308 is about what the .300 has over the .30-06.

I don't know that anyone said the .308 was the ballistic equal of the .30-06, lost track of it when the "friendly discussion" got friendlier, just that he was originally considering 3 calibers and .308 was one of 'em, .30-06 wasn't. I do like the .308 and for game up to and including elk, it'll kill game just as dead as the .30-06 will. If it needs killing any deader, I do have the 7 mag. That .308 sure is easy to tote in rough country, though, light and handy and it's superbly accurate. I love the rifle. I just like the round. Long action calibers ain't an option in the Remington M7. If I couldn't have found the M7 in .308 and could have in 7-08, I was fully prepared to handload for 7-08. :D

Sgt_R
September 27, 2012, 09:21 PM
Is the handi rifle I posted the pic of in post #135 like what you are looking at, or were looking at, that one is 308

That's a beautiful rifle, and more or less precisely what I had in mind (though possibly in another caliber, and with different glass).

Yours wouldn't happen to be for sale, would it? ;)

R

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 09:38 PM
That's a beautiful rifle, and more or less precisely what I had in mind (though possibly in another caliber, and with different glass).

Yours wouldn't happen to be for sale, would it? ;)

R
not for sale ,sorry,,,, one of my boys got his first deer with that 308 handi , so it will be his some day , I thought in an another post you were leaning to a 308 ?

GJgo
September 27, 2012, 10:06 PM
To the OP,

If you're going to also be doing target shooting stay away from .277 cal. Abysmal selection of target bullets. Berger makes some but they're pricey. 7mm & 308 have great selections OTOH.

One of my target loads for my 308 is a 200 gr SMK moving at 2630fps behind RL17. Works well, plus I can drop a Sierra 200gr hunting bullet right on top of the same load. I'm not going to lose any sleep if it's a few FPS behind what the 30-06 can do because it kicks less & uses less powder. All else being equal, short action cartridges tend to have less recoil, are lighter, and are more accurate. I tend to prefer them. However, if someone else didn't like my favorite cartridge it's no skin off my back, that's why there are lots of guns on the rack at the gun store.

If you can't kill it with a 7-08 or a 308, you sure as hell can't pack it out of wherever you shot it! Must be a monster! Friend of mine shoots an elk pretty much every year with an 18" 7-08, so I know it works. I've packed out the meat to prove it.

22-rimfire
September 27, 2012, 11:00 PM
I kind of feel like CraigC in the sense that if you may hunt whitetailed deer and perhaps black bear, any of the 270 > 30-06 calibers are fine, back it up a little in power or move up a little in power to the 7mm or 300 win mag; just fine. I do think the '06 is the do it all caliber if you just have to choose one contrary to Craig. The caliber range stated is plenty of viable choices until you start hunting dangerous game. As was mentioned the 30-06 is rated the #3 caliber in Alaska for dangerous game. I don't really want to be shooting 338's or 375's just because I might some day hunt Alaska. I'll buy it for the the trip. Unless you live there, if you can afford the Alaska hunt, you can afford the new rifle.

savanahsdad
September 27, 2012, 11:22 PM
this thred has got me thinking , why would anyone only get one cal.? never mind the 30-06 thing , or the better ones or even one action , I have bolt gun's, pump guns, autoload guns, brake action guns, a lever gun and a few combo guns and a pile of hand guns,

I would think haveing a short range gun, a mid range gun, a long range gun ,would make more sence, field hunting ,woods hunting , brush hunting, and for a first gun i'd say start with a mid range woods gun , Pick a cal , then move to your next gun

X-Rap
September 27, 2012, 11:53 PM
Pretty novel idea:rolleyes:

About 30 post ago:banghead:

You can get from 204-338 50 fps and 10 grs at a time with the same academic reasoning and each step will be spliting hairs.
I do not and will never subscribe to any notion of an all around cartridge for North America or any other place.
Anybody who has tried to download/upload for a single rifle probably has not been met with near the success that one would have with three seperate (min) cartridge rifle combinations like a 22, 6mm-25, 7mm-338. Having some quick change barrel is an option but IMO not a good one since buying barrel/scope ends up costing near what 3 good used guns would cost if not more.
119 posts and what? Anybody convinced of the perfect one yet?

saturno_v
September 28, 2012, 12:12 AM
Let's play this game.....the absolute minimum and most ideal "all around the world" hunting rifle battery....


In my opinion you can do it, at most, with only 3 rifles/calibers.


1) A high velocity small caliber like a 223 or a 243, for the small stuff/varmint

2) A 30-06 (a must!!! :evil::p)

3) One of the over 400 magnums (458 Lott, 416, etc...) for the big, thick skinned dangerous stuff in Africa


What do you think?? :D


P.S.

Yes yes a pump 12 ga. shotgun and a .22 would be useful too in addition to these above....they are cheap enough....

savanahsdad
September 28, 2012, 12:25 AM
Pretty novel idea:rolleyes:

About 30 post ago:banghead:
yep, I saw that I thought you were jokeing, never heard of a 204-338 50fps ? or that wild cat, 6mm-25 or the 7mm-338 , I thought you were just some smart ace, now I see you uesd a (-) where I would have the word (too) like 6mm too .25 or 7mm too 338, so I just skimed over it and went to the next post I was waiting for someone to list the 8mm neck to 30cal (30/8mm) anyway headbang lol,,,,,,,,

I was also pointing out actions as the OP is looking at a single shot, great mid range woods gun

savanahsdad
September 28, 2012, 12:34 AM
Let's play this game.....the absolute minimum and most ideal "all around the world" hunting rifle battery....


In my opinion you can do it, at most, wi only 3 rifles/calibers.


1) A high velocity small caliber like a 223 or a 243, for the small stuff/varmint

2) A 30-06 (a must!!! :evil::p)

3) One of the over 400 magnums (458 Lott, 416, etc...) for the big, thick skinned dangerous stuff in Africa


What do you think?? :D


P.S.

Yes yes a pump 12 ga. shotgun and a .22 would be useful too in addition to these above....they are cheap enough....
where is your short range brush gun ?? high power short barrel ? ,30/30 32win spl, 44mag auto or lever , 41mag lever , 35rem pump or lever ,

saturno_v
September 28, 2012, 12:54 AM
where is your short range brush gun ?? high power short barrel ? ,30/30 32win spl, 44mag auto or lever , 41mag lever , 35rem pump or lever ,


I do not see them as an absolute requirement trying to get the smallest possible "around the world" rifle battery...you can hunt reasonably well in thick woods even with a 22" barrel 30-06....

savanahsdad
September 28, 2012, 12:59 AM
I do not see them as an absolute requirement trying to get the smallest possible "around the world" rifle battery...you can hunt reasonably well in thick woods even with a 22" barrel 30-06....
thats no fun , ya need more guns guns guns ,,,,!!! and a brush gun is a must , I guess you could just use your 12ga and use slugs , I'll let your wife know you only need 5 guns ,, but don't tell mine lol ,,,,

MCgunner
September 28, 2012, 11:38 AM
My best "short range brush gun" is a Remington M7 in .308, light, short, handy as heck, fast to the shoulder and eye, 2x10x40 set on 2x. My mountain gun is a Remington M7 in .308. 400 yards capable, 3/4 MOA accurate, powerful enough to take down a deer cleanly at 400 yards, elk to 300 yards and I'd load with a Barnes bullet (equally accurate to the Nosler BT I normally use) for that, but I'll probably never hunt elk, so superfluous. Just zoom that 2x10 up a bit for longer shots.

Anyway, part of being versatile is in the RIFLE, not necessarily the caliber, IMHO.

savanahsdad
September 28, 2012, 12:01 PM
My best "short range brush gun" is a Remington M7 in .308, light, short, handy as heck, fast to the shoulder and eye, 2x10x40 set on 2x. My mountain gun is a Remington M7 in .308. 400 yards capable, 3/4 MOA accurate, powerful enough to take down a deer cleanly at 400 yards, elk to 300 yards and I'd load with a Barnes bullet (equally accurate to the Nosler BT I normally use) for that, but I'll probably never hunt elk, so superfluous. Just zoom that 2x10 up a bit for longer shots.

Anyway, part of being versatile is in the RIFLE, not necessarily the caliber, IMHO.
yep 308 makes a good short, mid, and long range ,I'd take a Savege 99 with iron sights in 308win , been looking for one in 300sav, I don't like scopes for brush hunting , not even a 0X red dot , it the thick stuff I don't want anything on top of my gun

CraigC
September 29, 2012, 10:20 AM
Well, people real life experiences say otherwise.....read this review for the 220 gr. Nosler partition bullet out of a 30-06
NO! You didn't say anything about Partitions. You referenced generic "Remchesteral". The 220gr CorLokt, as I said, is not the Hammer of Thor it is touted to be. A good controlled expansion 180gr will usually do better. In actual penetration testing, it doesn't fare very well and that 1983 USFS testing is the biggest joke ever. However, the OP said "...excluding bear, moose, and similar large/dangerous animals" so this is entirely irrelevant.


.....If up to well over 150 fps of difference for you is zero that means that the 300 Win Mag has zero advantage over the 30-06 as well......
According to what data with what barrel lengths??? Regardless, 150fps is COMPLETELY meaningless.


Sorry, but my dad hunted almost exclusively in Alaska with his 30-06....
The fact that people use it is evidence that proves what, exactly? That it's better than any other cartridge??? Uh, no.


.308 in Alaska, no thanks.
You really believe the .308 would not have killed those critters just as dead? Or any of several dozen others???


You guys are not listening to what I'm saying. You're just getting offended because I don't worship your favorite cartridge. I'm not saying the `06 is worthless and that it doesn't do everything you say it will. Quite the contrary. I'm saying that it is a jack of all trades and master of none. It's too in-between. There are better deer/antelope cartridges that are smaller, shoot flatter and fit into smaller/lighter rifles. That there are better cartridges for larger game that hit with more authority.

WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY THE OP HAS ALREADY ELIMINATED THE `06 FROM CONSIDERATION ALL THE WAY BACK ON PAGE ONE!!!!!!!

JohnM
September 29, 2012, 10:25 AM
You still arguing? :barf:

CraigC
September 29, 2012, 11:07 AM
You still drinking the Kool Aid? :barf::rolleyes:

ZeroJunk
September 29, 2012, 12:13 PM
People decide what they like and then gather up a bunch of mostly trivial differences to support what they like.

It's good for magazine articles and forum discussions but doesn't amount to anything for the vast, vast majority of opportunities in the field.

If nothing had ever been invented except the 30-06 the difference in number of big game animals killed would be insignificant.

buck460XVR
September 29, 2012, 02:14 PM
All I'm saying is that he shouldn't be afraid to use something not suggested in one of the canned "buy a .30-06" responses. Good Lord man, you hunt with a .460, you know all about trying something different.


Yes, but I don't hunt with it just because it is different, I hunt with it because it is very good at what it was designed for. Killing deer effectively beyond the range of other popular straight walled handgun ammo. I also love shooting it. But never will you hear me say it's more versatile than my .44s or .357s. I knew from day one that ammo would be expensive and hard to find if I had to depend on factory ammo, and if I had to rely solely on factory ammo, odds are I would not have it. When threads come up about folks interested in buying one, it is one of the first things I make sure they know. Why? Because it's important.

BTW, the deer I took last year was with the highly versatile, easy to find ammo for, .44 magnum.


The point is that there are a HELL of a lot of cartridges to choose from and you don't buy to "buy a .30-06" because everybody else has one.

Same with 12ga shotguns, .50cal muzzleloaders, .357Mag revolvers, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Live a little, don't make the easy choice.

So now, by your own words the 30-06 is "the easy choice''? Kinda the point many of us were tryin' to make all along. If one is to own only one big game firearm to hunt the species of deer found in the lower 48, and for protection from predators while hunting those deer, an easy choice is a 30-06. Boring as to the point of making one sick depends on whats layin' on the ground when you get done with it. IMHO, just because the OP made a different choice does not mean others who chose the '06 made a wrong choice, it just means he made a choice using his own criteria. Just as those that picked the '06 used their own. What criteria they used is not important. What's important is that they chose the gun that was right for them.


These gun/caliber/bullet threads always end up similarly. Many of us make our choices on these things because of personal preferences and emotions and thus feel insulted when others don't agree. Fact is, very seldom are any of us really wrong. We're just all different. That's what makes this world and these forums interesting. It's also what keeps gun and ammo makers in business.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
September 29, 2012, 02:21 PM
270 Winchester

saturno_v
September 29, 2012, 02:28 PM
NO! You didn't say anything about Partitions. You referenced generic "Remchesteral". The 220gr CorLokt, as I said, is not the Hammer of Thor it is touted to be. A good controlled expansion 180gr will usually do better. In actual penetration testing, it doesn't fare very well and that 1983 USFS testing is the biggest joke ever. However, the OP said "...excluding bear, moose, and similar large/dangerous animals" so this is entirely irrelevant.



My reference to the Remchesteral was in response to your statement that if you need a 220 gr. you did need a bigger caliber.....I responded that the 220 gr. are very common and EVEN Remchesteral make them....it was meant to say that they are not rare of fringe loads....

In addition to that, again my hunter friends at the range would like to say something about the effectiveness of the 220 gr. Core-Lokt...

You can also read some reviews (all of them 5 stars) of the 220 gr. Remington here from people using them from Africa to Alaska......they definitely disagree with your assesment about the effectiveness of that load...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/547799/remington-express-ammunition-30-06-springfield-220-grain-core-lokt-soft-point-box-of-20

According to what data with what barrel lengths??? Regardless, 150fps is COMPLETELY meaningless.


24" Length, according to the Hodgdon reload data center

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

150 fps may be meaningless and if it is so, then the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Win Mag is meaningless using the same logic.....

MCgunner
September 29, 2012, 02:52 PM
yep 308 makes a good short, mid, and long range ,I'd take a Savege 99 with iron sights in 308win , been looking for one in 300sav, I don't like scopes for brush hunting , not even a 0X red dot , it the thick stuff I don't want anything on top of my gun

I do prefer low power scopes even in brush at close range, much faster on target and my eyes ain't what they used to be and were NEVER that great. :rolleyes: I've taken deer close on the run out to 50 yards with scope. I get on target quicker. 1.5 to 2X for such use seems perfect to me.

Buddy of mine prefers irons and has the goofiest set up IMHO, but he likes it. He's got a Browning BLR in .308 (an EXCELLENT and accurate lever gun I personally prefer to the Savage 99) topped by a 4x12 in see through mounts, about the worst of ALL worlds IMHO, LOL, but he seems to like it. Whatever floats his boat, right? I'd put a 2x10 on it set low or just run the irons. I HATE SEE THROUGH MOUNTS. LOL

I think what he likes about it, though, is that if he jumps something in the brush, he's going to want his irons. Again, I prefer an optic, but he, like you, prefers the irons. Now, if he has to shoot at something farther out, he doesn't need the stock weld for the scope. What I really don't like about see throughs, though, beyond I just prefer a low mounted scope, is there is excessive scope height above bore, screws up the ballistics chart. His scope has GOT to be 3" above the bore.

Oh, well, he takes deer with it, so it works for him. Who am I to complain? :D

Now, I'm fine with my little M7. I love the thing, so light and fast to the shoulder, yet sub MOA accurate. I have never had the chance to fire a second shot on a deer jumped while still hunting in heavy woods and I've done this with a semi-auto before. If you miss, he's gone. No follow up is likely. So, I just concentrate on NOT missing. :D

savanahsdad
September 29, 2012, 04:23 PM
^^ when I was a hunter safty teacher , we would alway try to talk parents out of those over under mounts , because kids tend to lift there head off the stock going from iron too scope and get "scope-eye" no fun!
but with the handi-rifle the OP is looking at there is no iron sights , but it would still make a good brush gun with a large (44mm) 2x red-dot , however he said he was looking for a all-around cartridge + gun , he may want to go with any of the good 3-9's or do what I did and slap on a big old 4-16x44:neener:

MCgunner
September 29, 2012, 05:16 PM
I put this set of "scope toppers" from Millett on my .308 M7 just because I had 'em laying around. I'd bought 'em for my contender pistol, but didn't use 'em as I put a 30mm scope on that gun and these "scope toppers" are for 1" rings. Now, I don't really intend to use 'em, but they're pretty accurate out at 50-75 yards if I drop the gun and worry about the scope being off. You look OVER the scope for 'em and, for me, they're just back ups. With a sight radius of about 4-5", it's like shooting a handgun, though.

If I ever put a 1" scope on a contender barrel, I'll probably put those scope toppers on THAT barrel. Be great on a handgun. Actually, I have a 1" scope on my .22 barrel, but I don't see the need in ever using iron sights on a .22 barrel. I have iron sighted .22s to plink with. I don't even think Millett makes those things anymore. They're better than see through mounts if you need back up iron sights IMHO, but I wouldn't use 'em unless I feared my scope got knocked off. Not an option I'd recommend to the OP.

I do have a 1.5x4.5 Bushnell that's a great little optic. The thing I don't like about it is it's a 22mm scope and doesn't gather light worth a toot. I had it on a .22, sold the .22 and kept the scope, so it really doesn't have a use at the moment. I'm thinkin' I might put it on my inline .50 caliber CVA and swap that scope to another gun as it's a better/brighter scope. It's a 3x9x40. No real reason to have a 3x9 on a muzzle loader.

I'd advise to the OP that the 2x10x40 Weaver I have on my .308 is about the most versatile optic I own and very good quality. It was only about 200 bucks, too, which might sound excessive if you've been looking at Tascos, but I don't think you can find a QUALITY scope for much less.

</ramble>

josiewales
September 30, 2012, 03:20 PM
50 bmg. :D

savanahsdad
September 30, 2012, 06:15 PM
50 bmg. :D
50bmg , in a handi gun ?? ok , but you go first , I'll go ater you realy , I will.... realy !!

MCgunner
September 30, 2012, 06:36 PM
What's 10 gauge, about 77 cal? I have one of those. I'm too chicken to torch a slug off in that, let alone a .50. :D

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh305/goose150/PICT0240.jpg

Kyle M.
October 1, 2012, 11:03 AM
Did the OP buy a .375 H&H yet? :D

Honestly though if he won't consider the .30-06, and is holding fast to his original choices I'd go with the .308. But the .375 is my go to gun for anything from deer on up, and I don't feel the .308 or 06 is enough for elk, moose, or brown bears and grizzly.

MCgunner
October 1, 2012, 01:16 PM
I know folks that take Elk with the .25-06 each and every year. Any, you just dissed Jack O'Connor's .270. Wonder how many elk THAT one has taken?

Not everyone wants to tote a 10 lb .375 let alone can every one shoot such a cannon as accurately as a smaller bore gun. What's right for you might not fit eveyone else's idea of nirvana. If nothing else, I think this thread has shown THAT. :D

Alaska444
October 1, 2012, 10:32 PM
Of the 3 you say you're interested in, I would choose the .308. The 300 blackout shouldn't even be considered, it's not even down the street from the ballpark the .308 and 7mm-08 play in.

300AAC-125 gr bullet at 2200 fps
.308-150-180 gr bullets at 2600+ fps
7mm-08-150 gr at 2600 fps

That all being said, the .308 would be my choice from your list. If you were open to others, I am all the other people who say the .30-06 is the best do all round for North America. The .308 is still a fine cartridge.
+1, well said.

texas chase
October 1, 2012, 11:19 PM
+1, well said.

+2. :)

savanahsdad
October 3, 2012, 02:10 AM
lets not froget W.D.M. Karamojo Bell killed over 1000 elephants with a 7X57 , but I guess if you don't know waht you are doing then a bigger gun is what you may need :neener:

so to the OP. Did you pick a gun yet ? got a pic ?

Alaska444
October 5, 2012, 01:03 AM
lets not froget W.D.M. Karamojo Bell killed over 1000 elephants with a 7X57 , but I guess if you don't know waht you are doing then a bigger gun is what you may need :neener:

so to the OP. Did you pick a gun yet ? got a pic ?
Shot placement with adequate penetration trumps everything else. I remember hearing about some of the promotion of .357 magnum using professional hunters to kill grizzly bears with the new caliber. Not too many folks would volunteer for that duty any longer.

millertyme
October 6, 2012, 12:27 AM
Between the .308 and 7mm-08, I could care less. I'm a 30-06 guy and have been for a while now. But back east I think I would lean towards the 7mm-08.

savanahsdad
October 7, 2012, 01:05 AM
Shot placement with adequate penetration trumps everything else. I remember hearing about some of the promotion of .357 magnum using professional hunters to kill grizzly bears with the new caliber. Not too many folks would volunteer for that duty any longer.
right , I was replieing to post #174 , I forgot to check the reply, he think a 30/06 and 308 are on the light side ! so I thought I would post the 7X54's record in post #178

Alaska444
October 7, 2012, 01:09 AM
right , I was replieing to post #174 , I forgot to check the reply, he think a 30/06 and 308 are on the light side ! so I thought I would post the 7X54's record in post #178
Fair enough. Shot placement appears to trump just about everything else in many ways giving even the tiny .22 LR lethal capabilities in the right hands.

For the rest of regular folks, center of mass with large bore revolvers is the way to go.

j1
October 7, 2012, 07:45 AM
I would like to modify my first post to say that I like the 06, but of the choices you listed it would be the 308. Terribly accurate and will take most game cleanly. It is just a tad less capable than the 06. The 06 only shines when using the heavier bullets. Up to 180 ot is great.

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