Why Arent 9mm Revolvers More Popular?


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weblance
September 21, 2012, 07:38 PM
I just bought a Taurus 905. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678182
Its a rimless 9mm revolver(9x19,9mm Luger). I think the idea is brilliant. I have wanted a 9mm revolver ever since I realized that they were available. Ruger made the SP101 in 9mm, S&W made 9mm revolvers. They have both since discontinued offering them and Taurus is the only one that has one available. I know Charter Arms has said they are going to make one, but so far, its vaporware. I like the idea of factory $10/50 ammo, as it gives me affordable trigger time with a snubby, and I really need that. I dont reload, so I am stuck with buying factory ammo. 9mm in a revolver is equal to .38+p, so power isnt an issue. I have 9mm autoloaders, and I protect my house with autoloaders, but when Im outside, its a revolver. Im not going to argue autoloader vs revolver for CC. I already have my mind made up... revolver. So the question is... Why arent 9mm revolvers popular?

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dom1104
September 21, 2012, 07:45 PM
They dont sell well. Thats the only reason.

People dont want them, and if they DO want them, every time they are released they dont buy them.

weblance
September 21, 2012, 07:51 PM
Sure, I understand supply and demand, but the idea is brilliant. Ammo is cheap, performance is excellent. 9mm ammo is $11/50. 38 sp ammo is $16/50. 9mm has better performance than 38sp. I just understand why they dont sell...

bikemutt
September 21, 2012, 07:53 PM
Unless we're talking about the Charter Arms where cartridge ejection is possible without moonclips, it's just more work to shoot the thing. And, in the case of the Charter, the ejectors are just 5 more things to go wrong with the revolver.

I know a lot of folks like moonclips; I'm not one of them.

bigtubby
September 21, 2012, 08:02 PM
I shoot my S&W 625 45ACP with moon clips and just love them easy to load in the gun with the chambers chamfered and easy to eject. My one complaint is you can run thru some ammo quickly.

ApacheCoTodd
September 21, 2012, 08:05 PM
'Cause there are literally millions of .38/.357 revolvers that don't have ejection/headspace compromises.

I get the question though as the clips often used are significantly less hardware than speed loaders are. One of the reasons I still think 1917 .45s are valid defensive weapons.

mesinge2
September 21, 2012, 08:11 PM
I shoot my S&W 625 45ACP with moon clips and just love them easy to load in the gun with the chambers chamfered and easy to eject. My one complaint is you can run thru some ammo quickly.
I share that same problem!!

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/My%20heaters/My45ACPSWmodel22-414.jpg

MedWheeler
September 21, 2012, 08:18 PM
And now Taurus has out another revolver in .380ACP. Might be nice for someone who already has a TCP or similar pistol, and wants some "versatility" from the round..

oneounceload
September 21, 2012, 08:34 PM
They aren't more popular because folks figure if they are going to shoot a 9mm, they want a 10 round bottom feeder. Personally, I would like to see a 642 in 9mm, even more than the all steel 940 which now go for over 1k in a lot of auctions

TennJed
September 21, 2012, 09:11 PM
Ruger still makes the Blackhawk convertable in 9mm. Comes in 4.62" & 6.5" barrels. And the best thing is, it does not use moon clips and comes with 2 cylinders. A 357/38sp and 9mm. (They also make a 45LC/45ACP version.).

3 ammo choices. and IMHO the most fun you can have with a gun. Talk about versaltility, you can have big magnums or inexpensive 9mms in the same gun

http://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/models.html

weblance
September 21, 2012, 09:12 PM
Unless we're talking about the Charter Arms where cartridge ejection is possible without moonclips, it's just more work to shoot the thing. And, in the case of the Charter, the ejectors are just 5 more things to go wrong with the revolver.

I know a lot of folks like moonclips; I'm not one of them.

I find it hard to understand how inserting cartridges in moon clips is any different than inserting cartridges in magazines... Granted, a standard style revolver requires nothing but dropping the cartridge in the chambers of the cylinder, but I think the savings of $5 per 50 is worth the inconvience. I guess those of us with rimless revolvers should enjoy our little "secret" and just be happy.

rcmodel
September 21, 2012, 09:21 PM
9mm revolver wisdom = If you build it, they will come.

But they never do.

Everybody jumps up & down screaming they want to buy one.
But when the major firearms manufactures make them, nobody buys enough of them to pay for the tooling.

Thats just the way it is.

Both S&W and Ruger have done it enough times to learn from their mistakes.
And neither will probably ever do it again.

rc

weblance
September 21, 2012, 09:24 PM
Ruger still makes the Blackhawk convertable in 9mm. Comes in 4.62" & 6.5" barrels. And the best thing is, it does not use moon clips and comes with 2 cylinders. A 357/38sp and 9mm. (They also make a 45LC/45ACP version.).

Kinda apples and oranges here. The Blackhawk is Single Action and requires each empty cartridge to be plucked out one by one. You can shoot the Taurus 905 without moon clips, but will have to punch out the empty cartridges one by one, just like the Blackhawk. Also the Blackhawk doesnt have a barrel optimised to the 9mm, and doesnt have the load/unload advantages of a Double Action. It is a nice gun, and I do enjoy my Single Six convertables, but I dont really think it merits comparing it to the DA rimless revolvers, even though it is a 9mm revolver... kinda...

TennJed
September 21, 2012, 09:38 PM
Kinda apples and oranges here. The Blackhawk is Single Action and requires each empty cartridge to be plucked out one by one. You can shoot the Taurus 905 without moon clips, but will have to punch out the empty cartridges one by one, just like the Blackhawk. Also the Blackhawk doesnt have a barrel optimised to the 9mm, and doesnt have the load/unload advantages of a Double Action. It is a nice gun, and I do enjoy my Single Six convertables, but I dont really think it merits comparing it to the DA rimless revolvers, even though it is a 9mm revolver... kinda...
As far as the barrel being optimised for a 9mm, a 6.5" Blackhawk with be more accurate than a snubbie in the vast majority of shooters hands. They are some differences between the 2, but there is no kinda about it, a Ruger Blackhawk 9mm convertable in a 9mm revolver. The big differences I see are

Unloading, equal
Quicker loading, Taurus
Easier to carry, Taurus
Accuracy, Ruger
Quality control/customer service reputation, Ruger
Resale value, Ruger


They are different and depending on what a persons need are either may work. But the thread title was about 9mm revolvers, which this is absolutely one. A lot of peopel reading this thread may be under the impression that Ruger does not make the Blackhawk in 9mm. I just wanted to make sure that was cleared up. There is another 9mm options in revolvers

Guillermo
September 21, 2012, 09:57 PM
perhaps it is because one cannot buy a top quality 9mm revolver.

R.W.Dale
September 21, 2012, 10:34 PM
I think this thread is part of a larger trend where folks who actually have owned and shot a 9mm revolver become great fans of the cartridge gun combination much like the 45acp s&w fans.

I really think this is a case of until you shoot it you just don't understand. Perhaps this begs for the idea to be better sold.

Ruger could do it. There's really no tooling costs to allow for if they follow tauruses lead and base their 9mm clip on a 38 rim thickness (supposedly a 38 Taurus 85 can shoot 380 using the clips for the new m380). Smith and Wesson on the other hand can't pull it off because of their annoying habit of doubling the price of a model if they use a reamer other than 38/357 while making it.

bikemutt
September 21, 2012, 10:38 PM
I find it hard to understand how inserting cartridges in moon clips is any different than inserting cartridges in magazines... Granted, a standard style revolver requires nothing but dropping the cartridge in the chambers of the cylinder, but I think the savings of $5 per 50 is worth the inconvience. I guess those of us with rimless revolvers should enjoy our little "secret" and just be happy.
The only thing that makes placing rounds in a moonclip a similar level of effort to placing those same rounds in a cylinder is to use of a mooning tool. Of course it can be done by hand but that last round can be a bear. Then there's extra step of placing the moonclipped rounds into the cylinder.

Then there's ejection to deal with. Whatever a person decides to do with the spent brass, having them captured in a moonclip now requires five, six, seven or even eight more steps than the single press of the ejector rod.

No matter how you cut it, the use of moonclips is not for labor savings.

I'm sure moonclips are indispensable to timed event shooters, for weekend range warriors like me, not so much. Rimless ammo may certainly represent a cost saving but those savings become marginal if one adds in the time to utilize them in a revolver which requires the use of moonclips.

rcmodel
September 21, 2012, 10:38 PM
perhaps it is because one cannot buy a top quality 9mm revolver.But, when they could, they didn't.

See, that right there is the problem.

If they had of, we would still see Ruger SP101 and S&W 9mm revolvers.

But they never could sell enough of them to pay the bills when they made them.

rc

Certaindeaf
September 21, 2012, 10:47 PM
I think Ruger could put rails on a banana and it'd be back ordered for two years these days.

R.W.Dale
September 21, 2012, 10:49 PM
I think Ruger could put rails on a banana and it'd be back ordered for two years these days.

LOL that's the truth.

Two years ago folks would have laughed at the notion of an $800 modern new production bolt action mauser carbine. But how long is the gsr on backorder?

B33fC8k
September 21, 2012, 11:11 PM
I have people keeping an eye out for me in 4 states for a 9mm snubbie.

Arp32
September 21, 2012, 11:18 PM
Buy a 642, send it to Pinnacle or Cylinder & Slide to have it converted to 9mm, problem solved

iyn
September 21, 2012, 11:22 PM
I used have a sw 625, but it was too big for my hand to shoot accurately. A 9mm revolver would be good idea with the cost of ammo these days.

56hawk
September 21, 2012, 11:29 PM
As far as I'm concerned the main benefit of a revolver these days is to be able to use ammo that is too long to fit in a pistol magazine. A 9mm revolver isn't any smaller than a 357, and it's way less powerful.

Of course as others have noted reloads are very fast with moon clips. I use a 625 in competition since it makes major power factor. Not sure a 9mm would have any real benefit there.

Guess the main thing is that they don't fill any niche. Unless you have a bunch of 9mm ammo and like revolvers, there isn't anything that something else doesn't do better.

VA27
September 21, 2012, 11:40 PM
I bought a 940 when they first came out. Very cool, up until I tried some CorBon +P ammo. The thing locked up tighter than Dick's hatband. The very slight taper in the 9mm case let it jam against the recoil shield and it had to be pounded open. I sold it.

The 547 had a double firing pin that prevented that type of jam from happening and why they didn't use it on the 940, I can't figure out.

No more 9mm revolvers for me.

Brian Williams
September 22, 2012, 05:34 AM
I have a 940 cylinder installed on a 642, it is a great carry gun and shoots very well. I can shoot 15 rounds just about as fast as a normal fantasticplasticbrasspukingbottomfeeding shooter can. When I put the cylinder in my 60-4 it is scary accurate.

mavracer
September 22, 2012, 06:08 AM
Its a rimless 9mm revolver(9x19,9mm Luger). I think the idea is brilliant.
Because in the words of Yogi Berra "in theory, practice and theory are the same, in practice they ain't"
When at the range with both sitting out in front of you sure the moon clips are faster, But in more practical settings they have some distinct dissadvantages. They are easily bent where they can either loose rounds or make it where it's is difficult or impossible to close the cylinder. They don't allow you to top off.
I had a 905, I still have a 442 and a LCR.

dragon813gt
September 22, 2012, 06:25 AM
Two words, Moon Clips.

If the cartridge doesn't have a rim I don't want a revolver chambered for it. Sure it could be a great shooting revolver. But the clips don't make it practical. There are plenty of great revolver cartridges that I don't need to start shooting rimless ones out of it.


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tekarra
September 22, 2012, 01:53 PM
IMO the 9mm revolver is a great idea and I have a number of them from several manufacturers. While moon clips are an annoyance to some, they are not to me. However, my preference is the S&W 547 which has the unique extractors. While some berate this extractor, in some 25 years of shooting 547s, I have not had a problem. My current grail gun is to find one of the Ruger Sixes with the spring extractor that was built for an overseas market.

The Charter Pit Bull has appeared in a several on line gun shops and I would like to check one out.

gandog56
September 22, 2012, 11:22 PM
Having to use moon clips is why I wouldn't. And even if they didn't bother me, I would rather get one in 10mm.

kgpcr
September 23, 2012, 09:34 AM
I just cant see the hassle of moon clips. Not at all. I had a buddy who bought a 10mm revolver even though a better choice would be a .41 mag. He sold the 10mm and went with the .41mag. Likes it a lot better. No hassle and better upside for balistics

mesinge2
September 23, 2012, 09:40 AM
For those of us that have used moonclips, we understand they are not a hassle and are faster reloads than speed loaders and speed strips.

Look how fast reloads are with my .45 ACP model 22:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozh3kiokyKI

_

Brian Williams
September 23, 2012, 09:51 AM
Try and find a S&W 646. 6 shot K frame in 40 S&W. It was going to be the cat's meow for IDPA until IDPA changed the rules.

Guillermo
September 23, 2012, 10:02 AM
But, when they could, they didn't.

See, that right there is the problem.

Yup

These days they might sell but with the "tactical" stuff selling best, the gun manufacturers do not have time to look an ancillary products.

JaxJim
September 23, 2012, 01:16 PM
I have people keeping an eye out for me in 4 states for a 9mm snubbie.
There was a nice Ruger snubbie at the Jax fun show on Sat. I almost snapped it up.

valnar
September 23, 2012, 07:39 PM
I always wanted a Smith 547 but couldn't afford it. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I love my Smith 625 .45ACP with moonclips. 'tis my favorite revolver. Reloading is simple. A round between the .38sp and .357Mag in a K-frame is ideal.

PabloJ
September 23, 2012, 08:20 PM
I just bought a Taurus 905. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678182
Its a rimless 9mm revolver(9x19,9mm Luger). I think the idea is brilliant. I have wanted a 9mm revolver ever since I realized that they were available. Ruger made the SP101 in 9mm, S&W made 9mm revolvers. They have both since discontinued offering them and Taurus is the only one that has one available. I know Charter Arms has said they are going to make one, but so far, its vaporware. I like the idea of factory $10/50 ammo, as it gives me affordable trigger time with a snubby, and I really need that. I dont reload, so I am stuck with buying factory ammo. 9mm in a revolver is equal to .38+p, so power isnt an issue. I have 9mm autoloaders, and I protect my house with autoloaders, but when Im outside, its a revolver. Im not going to argue autoloader vs revolver for CC. I already have my mind made up... revolver. So the question is... Why arent 9mm revolvers popular?
Modern service pistol in 9x19 will hold 17+ per magazine. Even tiny pocket 9x19 holds six or seven and is much quicker to reload then just about any revolver. Does this info help answer your question?
Sorry, but Kool just doesn't cut it.

weblance
September 23, 2012, 09:18 PM
Im not talking about compairing a revolver with an autoloader. Its obvious that an autoloader holds more rounds. I am wondering why a 9mm revolver isnt popular, in the revolver world. The ammo is cheaper by almost $6 per 50. The power level is greater than .38sp by a good margin, and the only inconvenience is the moon clips, which I find to not be a problem at all. I cant believe that moon clips are the reason people turn their noses up at a 9mm revolver. If you want to run 9mm ammo thru an autoloader, fine. I prefer revolvers for pocket carry, and ultimate reliability. I dont reload, and I want lots of trigger time. Seems to me a 9mm revolver is a really good idea.

TennJed
September 23, 2012, 10:04 PM
Modern service pistol in 9x19 will hold 17+ per magazine. Even tiny pocket 9x19 holds six or seven and is much quicker to reload then just about any revolver. Does this info help answer your question?
Sorry, but Kool just doesn't cut it.

The OP asked to not turn this into a revolver vs auto debate. That has been done time after time. There is more to CC than number of rounds. If you need 18 rounds plus a quick reload that is fine. I am a pretty good shot so I do not need to spray 36 rounds. CC a revolver has advantages over an auto. An auto has advantages over a revolver. Let's stick to revolvers here

treg
September 23, 2012, 10:27 PM
I think a 4" small frame revolver with adjustable sights in 9mm would be a nice outdoorsman's gun. But it will probably never be made.

AJChenMPH
October 3, 2012, 04:49 PM
Hmmm...if you believe their website and their catalog, it looks like Chiappa is making their new Rhino revolver available in 9mm.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/725

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Magalog%20Chiappa%20Firearms%20mr.pdf (look at page 13)

Jaymo
October 3, 2012, 06:08 PM
I'll stick with my .38/.357 revolvers and Buffalo Bore ammo. The 9mm won't do anything, from a snubby, that the BB LSWCHP .38+P won't do better.

If I had a 9mm revolver, I'd be tempted to try .380 in it. If it wasn't so expensive, to shoot, that is.
I wish Taurus would make a 9x18mm Makarov revolver. I'd buy one of those, just for the heck of it.

R.W.Dale
October 3, 2012, 07:27 PM
I'll stick with my .38/.357 revolvers and Buffalo Bore ammo. The 9mm won't do anything, from a snubby, that the BB LSWCHP .38+P won't do better.

If I had a 9mm revolver, I'd be tempted to try .380 in it. If it wasn't so expensive, to shoot, that is.
I wish Taurus would make a 9x18mm Makarov revolver. I'd buy one of those, just for the heck of it.

380 wont work in a 9mm revolver (see pic)

However because of the way Taurus stellar clips work you can supposedly shoot 380 in a model 85 in 38spl using moon clips for the 380 revolver. I'm betting these same clips would work in other manufacturers 38's to allow the use of 380

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/04/7uzasusa.jpg



posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

tekarra
October 3, 2012, 08:52 PM
I haven't tried it, but I have heard you can shoot .380 in a 9 mm revolver using moon clips. However, I won't do it in mine.

Capt. Ct.
October 3, 2012, 09:53 PM
I had a 9mm S&W revolver. It stated in the owners manual that you may have to experiment with ammo to find ammo that won't give you an ejection problem. I shoot my reloads and have no problems. That is until I tried fireing them through the 9mm revolver. I have had to take a hammer and pound them out. Yes, that was with moon clips. That is why I no longer have a 9mm revolver.

weblance
October 3, 2012, 11:01 PM
I'll stick with my .38/.357 revolvers and Buffalo Bore ammo. The 9mm won't do anything, from a snubby, that the BB LSWCHP .38+P won't do better.

How about power levels equal to, or better than 38+P for $5 LESS per box of 50?

I had a 9mm S&W revolver. It stated in the owners manual that you may have to experiment with ammo to find ammo that won't give you an ejection problem. I shoot my reloads and have no problems. That is until I tried fireing them through the 9mm revolver. I have had to take a hammer and pound them out. Yes, that was with moon clips. That is why I no longer have a 9mm revolver.

Well, I certainly dont have to hammer the empty cartridges out of my 905, as a matter of fact, without the moon clips, they pretty much fall out. There was something wrong with that Smith&Wesson, or your reloads werent to spec.

weblance
October 3, 2012, 11:24 PM
Hmmm...if you believe their website and their catalog, it looks like Chiappa is making their new Rhino revolver available in 9mm.

9 X 21..? Seriously? Why would they chamber this in 9x21? Thats very strange, unless its a missprint. 9 x 21 is not 9mm Luger. 9mm Luger is 9 x 19. I doubt they would sell any at all in 9x21.

Wanderling
October 3, 2012, 11:31 PM
I'd buy one because I think revolvers are cool, and I don't want to pay for expensive ammo, and don't want a .22.

However, in 9mm, revolvers don't make much practical sense. I mean, they shoot exactly the same ammo as the autoloaders but carry much less of it. So while some would buy a 9mm revolver for the coolness factor, most would look at it, admire it, and get a Glock.

GoWolfpack
October 4, 2012, 12:30 AM
I have people keeping an eye out for me in 4 states for a 9mm snubbie.
These guys (http://revolverarmorer.com/) have a used S&W 940 in stock right now. Fine looking gun. Stainless I believe.

22-rimfire
October 4, 2012, 12:36 AM
I have to disagree with the prevailing attitude. The 9mm is just fine for personal defense, but I prefer a 40 S&W and will sacrifice the extra rounds to have one.

R.W.Dale
October 4, 2012, 01:59 AM
9 X 21..? Seriously? Why would they chamber this in 9x21? Thats very strange, unless its a missprint. 9 x 21 is not 9mm Luger. 9mm Luger is 9 x 19. I doubt they would sell any at all in 9x21.

They would sell in countries where you can't have a 9x19 or other military cartridge chambered firearm. 38 may fall under the same restrictions




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

Remllez
October 6, 2012, 01:43 PM
I'm thinking the 9mm revolvers were introduced at a time when the cartridge hadn't evolved to what it is now. Self defense ammo for the 9mm has grown to a point where it's very very effective and brings a load with it when it hits.

Ruger 9mm revolvers were introduced in the late 80's or early 90's and ball ammo was prevalent and not that effective. Shoot throughs were common and the ammo choices were few. The energy numbers are fairly impressive now with quite a few loads available that come close to .357 without the flash and noise.

.38 Special short barrel revolvers will never go away, but that doesn't mean that that caliber is the best choice for up close and personal work. .357's are very effective but most find the noise, recoil and cost objectionable. I'm thinking the new .40 caliber snubs will be too much for most to shoot as well.

When I think about it, the 9mm looks better and better to me. I like moonclips especially for clean ejection of empties, faster reloads are a pleasant plus for me. The 9 may just takeoff if someone made a good quality revolver at a reasonable price.( Think Ruger LCR.) I've been shooting my SP-101 since the 90's and still prefer it to a .38 any day.

Of course the above opinions are mine and they're worth what you pay for them...:)

weblance
October 6, 2012, 02:55 PM
They would sell in countries where you can't have a 9x19 or other military cartridge chambered firearm. 38 may fall under the same restrictions

I guess I wasnt thinking there was a world outside the USA. That does make sense as I know there are places where the general population isnt allowed a military cartridge(9x19), but I think they need to offer it also in 9x19.

As far as someone offering a "quality" 9mm revolver, I think my Taurus 905 fits into that group. I have been very pleased so far, have 500 rounds down the pipe, and its very accurate. I see no wear of any kind and dont see any reason why I wont get many years of enjoyment from it. Its based on the S&W J frame, and thats a proven design, so the quality of the materials its made from would be the only concern over time.

C0untZer0
October 6, 2012, 03:22 PM
Czechpoint U.S.A is importing the 3" barrelled Alfa Proj 9mm revolver.

I don't know how many they imported for their first batch but they sold out almost immediately and are still on backorder now.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=164520&d=1337112969

Owen
October 6, 2012, 06:11 PM
9 X 21..? Seriously? Why would they chamber this in 9x21

Because 9x19 is illegal for civilians in Italy

savit260
October 6, 2012, 06:23 PM
The ammo is cheaper by almost $6 per 50.

Let's keep in mind that this is only a fairly recent development.

Before the Great Ammo Debacle of 2008/2009... 9mm and 38 Special were less than a dollar apart for a box of 50...


Not that many years ago, I was buying "blue box" 38 Special reloads for $5-$6 a box. Winchester White Box 100 packs were under $10 at Wallyworld.

It's only been in the last 3 years or so that the price between the two has taken off.

Maybe 9mm might make a bit more sense from a cost perspective now, but for the 100 plus years before, it really wasn't an issue.

MCgunner
October 6, 2012, 06:41 PM
I used to shoot my 1917 at the range sans moon clips, fired just fine, headspace just fine. I just plucked out the brass with my fingernails, or you can use a pencil.

I don't think, for me, the 9mm revolvers offer any advantage over my Kel Tec. It carries 11 rounds, is smaller than my little .38 snub by a fraction, and weighs only 14 ounces unloaded. An all steel J frame is a brick in the pocket. I would, however, prefer a scandium 9 to the scandium .357 magnum.

gandog56
October 10, 2012, 12:28 AM
For those of us that have used moonclips, we understand they are not a hassle and are faster reloads than speed loaders and speed strips.


Maybe, but I hate them. And I don't use speed loaders or strips because I feel that THEY are also pains. Give me the drop the old cartridge straight in a cylinder any day. And since I reload, .38 specials do NOT cost any more than 9mm, their probably even CHEAPER! And I can fire both those and full load .357 magnums out of my Dan Wesson...with it's 4 interchangeable barrel lengths.

three-fifty-seven
October 10, 2012, 09:40 PM
One reason is that it lacks flexibility.

A 9mm Luger revolver is stuck with only using 9mm while a .357 Magnum Revolver can use .357 Mag and .38 Special.


How about power levels equal to, or better than 38+P for $5 LESS per box of 50?
If you are a reloader than cost differences between .38Special/.357Magnum and 9mm becomes non-existent.

Also don't forget about the .357 Magnum as it is quite the performance leap over the 9mm Luger and is an acceptable round to hunt deer with.

KTXdm9
October 10, 2012, 09:49 PM
One reason is that it lacks flexibility.

A 9mm Luger revolver is stuck with only using 9mm while a .357 Magnum Revolver can use .357 Mag and .38 Special.



If you are a reloader than cost differences between .38Special/.357Magnum and 9mm becomes non-existent.

Also don't forget about the .357 Magnum as it is quite the performance leap over the 9mm Luger and is an acceptable round to hunt deer with.
This. I like the flexibility of .38/.357. I already have autoloaders that shoot 9mm, so I'm looking for something different in a revolver.

weblance
October 11, 2012, 12:37 AM
One reason is that it lacks flexibility.

A 9mm Luger revolver is stuck with only using 9mm while a .357 Magnum Revolver can use .357 Mag and .38 Special.

So then I guess thats why 9mm autoloaders arent popular because they also lack flexibility, and they are stuck with using only 9mm ammo...? .38 Special revolvers are much more popular than 9mm revolvers, yet they also lack flexibility because they are stuck with .38 Special ammo. I bet that Taurus sells 100 or more .38 Special Model 85s compaired to the Model 905 9mm revolver.

If you are a reloader than cost differences between .38Special/.357Magnum and 9mm becomes non-existent.

Also don't forget about the .357 Magnum as it is quite the performance leap over the 9mm Luger

I stated that I dont reload. Im sure that the majority of shooters dont reload. Yes I know the 357 has a ballistic edge on the 9mm. But the 9mm has the edge on .38 Special. I dont think that just because the .357 is more powerful than the 9mm, that makes it more popular in a revolver. The 9mm cartridge is the most popular handgun cartridge worldwide, and revolvers are popular because of many factors, I simply dont understand why the 2 dont come together in a popular way. Again, I guess I should be happy that I have, and enjoy mine, and just leave it at that. I will say that I own five .357 revolvers, one .38 Special revolver, and one 9mm revolver. I enjoy them all, but when the cost of factory ammo is considered, my 9mm revolver wins hands down. There is nothing that handicaps this revolver, in any way, when compared to any other 5 shot snub. Not ballistic performance, Not accuracy, Not ammo availability.

RavenTai
October 11, 2012, 04:11 AM
How about power levels equal to, or better than 38+P for $5 LESS per box of 50?


Guns are extremely traditional, the majority of us standardize, we conform to the safe and well established ways, it makes sense in for many reasons, it takes a large advantage in something new and different to overcome this tradition inertia.

and for handguns the tradition, the standard is:
Rimmed cartridges in revolvers
Rimless cartridges in autos,

yes you can use moon clips, most of us consider them an unnecessary complication when they already make cartridges made to properly fit revolvers. :neener:

for me .38 is a range only cartridge, mellow recoil, mellow bass report, a higher pressure cartridge is not desirable here, 9mm will not make any different hole in the paper or soda bottle, tin can, to spend $500 to essentially duplicate what I already have with more hassle? yea the $5 savings a box might be nice but it will take years to pay back, $10 a month vs having some other interesting new gun that fills a real usable niche in my safe? no contest.

For defensive revolver where more pressure is desired 9mm is not enough above .38 to really warrant wasting my limited gun purchase on it, SO I bought a very early 586 in .357 a truly great fighting revolver cartridge.

the inexpensive, ubiquitous, compact, but anemic, and foreign 9mm does have its place though, it makes a wonderful compact, flat, and light single stack Tupperware for concealed carry, and If i want to shoot 9mm that is what i will shoot it in, I can always use the practice.

There are some of you who want to go against the grain, that's great that is how new good things are found. after the path is found to be safe by paving it with your money us sheep will follow. but it is the bleeding edge and some things tried don't really make sense so they are not widely adopted. 9mm revolvers are one of these failures, gun history is filled with them.

1911Tuner
October 11, 2012, 05:02 AM
Yes I know the 357 has a ballistic edge on the 9mm. But the 9mm has the edge on .38 Special.

Chronograph a few rounds from a Smith 547 and the same lot through an autopistol with about the same barrel length, and you'll probably find that the ballistics from the revolver are a bit shy of the auto's...which closes the gap between the 9 and the .38 Special.

And it's not because of the barrel/cylinder gap, though that does play a role. Everything means something.

Paul7
October 11, 2012, 06:39 AM
You would think a 9mm snubby could have a shorter cylinder than a .38, correct?

1911Tuner
October 11, 2012, 07:30 AM
You would think a 9mm snubby could have a shorter cylinder than a .38, correct?

You would think...but most of the 9mm revolvers were/are based on existing frames and cylinders. The market just isn't there for a ground-up 9mm revolver...just to achieve another 50-60 fps...so nobody will likely try to fill such a small niche.

And it essentially equates to more freebore, which is the velocity killer.

The .38 Special would probably get a decent velocity boost with a shorter frame, cylinder, and forcing cone even in a K-Frame Smith.

IllinoisGun
October 11, 2012, 01:03 PM
Seems to me that such a round is better left residing in a pistol.

R.W.Dale
October 11, 2012, 02:07 PM
And it essentially equates to more freebore, which is the velocity killer.

.

My experience does not bear this out shooting 9mm and 38/357 snubbies

In fact with similar bullet weights my Taurus 905 is faster from a 2" barrel than 38's are from my 22" rolling block.

Most defense oriented 124g 9mm loads are running 1100fps + from the little Taurus. 38 simply cannot do this within saami pressures



Now a problem that much freebies does cause is it pretty much rules out cast bullets as leading is terrible. One of the potential downfalls of a 9mm length cylinder would be having a 38k psi cylinder gap stream that much closer to your knuckles


posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

1911Tuner
October 11, 2012, 04:21 PM
My experience does not bear this out shooting 9mm and 38/357 snubbies

Mine does.

Example: 4.62-inch Blackhawk Convertible. With the 9mm cylinder in place it turns in about 70 fps less velocity than my Browning High Power with the same ammo lot.

Example 2:

In a bored moment, I trimmed some .45 Colt brass short enough to give me an extra round in the magazine of my Winchester Trapper...roughly .45 Schofield length. Reduced the charge of Unique to compensate for the case capacity...and it sounded and recoiled like a popgun. Broke out the Chrony...and I'd lost a full 200 fps.

This is my shocked face. I expected maybe 50-60 fps loss.

Started upping the powder charge, and finally...finally...got in the same neighborhood as 8.5 grains of Unique...with 10 grains of Unique.

Guillermo
October 11, 2012, 05:04 PM
You would think a 9mm snubby could have a shorter cylinder than a .38, correct?

One cannot design a revolver that would take full advantage of the shorter 9mm cartridge as there are lots of gases, that are potentially harmful, come blasting out of the front of the cylinder.

This issue makes it where there is no reason to design a new, shorter cylindered gun.

tnelson31
October 11, 2012, 05:25 PM
RE: Czechpoint U.S.A

I would not say immediately if the website stock was correct. 7 months availability for sure. With some negative reviews on Charter's Pitbull I am back to considering the Alfa-Proj.

bamabiker
October 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
I think this thread needs a picture.
My M547s. I like them because they are different.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll108/bamabiker1159/FAs/FAPictures800.jpg

Guillermo
October 11, 2012, 09:05 PM
I like them because they are different.

pretty too

tekarra
October 12, 2012, 08:24 PM
Nice pair of 547s bamabiker. I have a few and like the a lot.

C0untZer0
October 12, 2012, 10:49 PM
A 9mm Luger revolver is stuck with only using 9mm while a .357 Magnum Revolver can use .357 Mag and .38 Special.

You can fire everything from 90gr to 158gr 9mm Luger out of a revolver, and a lot of it is +P or +P+

There is a tremendous amount of versatility there.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173358&stc=1&d=1350096544
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=173359&stc=1&d=1350096518

HiCap1
October 14, 2012, 11:59 AM
Can you fire +P out of a Taurus 905?

HiCap

golden
October 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
Weblance,

The reason that 9m.m. revolvers are not popular is because they are revolvers! Semi-automatic pistols have displaced revolvers in most roles. They are still competitive as pocket pistols and snubnose revolvers and in the large hunting handgun market.

It just is hard to imagine why I would carry a S&W 547(a terrific revolver by the way) instead of a GLOCK19, SIG-225 WALTHER P-99. I pick these guns because they are all similir in size and weight to the 547.
I would rather have the 15 rouind magazine of the GLOCK or WATHER anytime over the 6 rounds in the 547. Even the small SIG 225 has an 8 round magazine.

If forced to carry a revolver for anything but off duty use, I would go with the 547 and +P ammo. The 4 inch heavy barrel combined with MAGNA-PORTS makes it a fast and accurate shooter.

Jim

weblance
October 16, 2012, 09:16 PM
Jim... not everyone has given up on revolvers. If I was going to war, or was Law Enforcement, I would carry an autoloader, but for every day carry, I carry a 5 shot snub, and so do alot of people. This isnt a discussion of revolver vs autoloaders, Its a discussion of 9mm revolvers vs other revolvers. I guess I didnt make that clear at the beginning, but that was my intent.

jc57
October 16, 2012, 10:50 PM
The reason for poor sales is that perhaps for the vast majority of the gun-owning public, many of whom do not frequent internet gun forums, the belief is that .38+P is more powerful than 9mm.

I remember in the early 90s when police departments, including the one I worked for, switched from 38+P 125gr SJHP to 9mm shooting 115gr bullets with rather less reliably expanding JHPs, that we felt like we were trading down in power for an increase in capacity.

Nowadays with 9mm +P and improved bullet design it's the other way around most of the time, but many shooters formed their opinions a while ago and some of those beliefs are passed on in the oral traditions in families and communities.

Also some people look at the size of the cartridge and just assume that the .38 must shoot "harder" than that little bitty 9mm.

The gun buying world isn't made of up solely of the most educated and rational people in the world. Just ask any gun shop employee, I'm sure they have a million stories they could tell you.

silvermane_1
October 17, 2012, 05:56 AM
there is a simple solution to the 9mm wheelgun question, it's called someone inventing the 9mm luger auto rim, and if it is already out there someome needs to bring it back to fore front.

Brian Williams
October 17, 2012, 06:33 AM
The biggest hassle with 9mm revolvers is the quality of the moonclips. There just is not enough space to get enough material to make good moonclips that hold the rounds very well. I like to use the Ruger moonclips in my 940 cylindered 642. The 40/10mm and the 45acp moonclips have much more space to provide enough material to make a good moonclip that is sturdy enough to hold the rounds and still has enough space to flex for the installation and removal of the cartridges or empty cases.
The concept of a 9mm revolver is a great one and makes for fast unloads and reloads. I really would love to have a 13 that was factory chambered in 9mm and cut for moonclips.

HiCap1
October 17, 2012, 04:39 PM
Silvermane 1, Federal made just what you are suggesting, the Federal 9mm. I have two boxes of it, and when I pick up my new Taurus 905 next week, I'll try a few. The round may fit into an HKS model 36 or 36A speed loader, and if so, Bob's your uncle.

HiCap

CraigC
October 17, 2012, 06:11 PM
People dont want them, and if they DO want them, every time they are released they dont buy them.
Exactly!

Personally, I don't want a DA chambered in a rimless cartridge. I wouldn't mind a .45ACP but I'd use Autorim cases. I'm wondering what trick everyone saying "moon clips are no big deal" has figured out because my brain tells me that it adds one more step to the loading process. An unnecessary one at that. Whether your clips are cooperative or not. Yes, you can reload your sixgun faster but that's only AFTER the clips are loaded and last I checked, they don't load themselves. A .38Spl serves the same purpose, has a rim and is quite easy to reload for. Sorry, I don't see the point.

weblance
October 17, 2012, 07:45 PM
Personally, I don't want a DA chambered in a rimless cartridge. I wouldn't mind a .45ACP but I'd use Autorim cases. I'm wondering what trick everyone saying "moon clips are no big deal" has figured out because my brain tells me that it adds one more step to the loading process. An unnecessary one at that. Whether your clips are cooperative or not. Yes, you can reload your sixgun faster but that's only AFTER the clips are loaded and last I checked, they don't load themselves. A .38Spl serves the same purpose, has a rim and is quite easy to reload for. Sorry, I don't see the point.

The Taurus 905 doesnt need the moon clips to operate. They aid in extraction. When firing my 905, I have not used the moon clips for the last 300 or so rounds. Simply tipping the revolver skyward causes the empty cases to fall out. If one or two dont drop, lightly tapping the grip on something will make them drop. So your complaint about using moon clips doesnt apply here, Instead of loading a moon clip, which apparently is too demanding for some, its even easier to unload the 905, compared to any other rimmed revolver, because you dont have to push the extractor.

TennJed
October 17, 2012, 08:27 PM
The Taurus 905 doesnt need the moon clips to operate. They aid in extraction. When firing my 905, I have not used the moon clips for the last 300 or so rounds. Simply tipping the revolver skyward causes the empty cases to fall out. If one or two dont drop, lightly tapping the grip on something will make them drop. So your complaint about using moon clips doesnt apply here, Instead of loading a moon clip, which apparently is too demanding for some, its even easier to unload the 905, compared to any other rimmed revolver, because you dont have to push the extractor.

Well lightly tapping the revolver doesn't seem easier than pushing the extractor

PabloJ
October 17, 2012, 10:55 PM
Not that long ago a fella offered me the best of this type S&W K-frame 4" rb for very reasonable price of $650 (only several tho were made and the gun did not have mark on it). He asked why I turned him down. I said it's not you or the gun, but I already own a Glock pistol.

silvermane_1
October 17, 2012, 11:35 PM
HiCap1, could post some info on the Federal 9mm you mention?, im interested in the rimmed 9mm myself, thanks.

Remllez
October 18, 2012, 09:06 AM
If ya gotta ask, you'll never understand....it ain't rocket science, it doesnt have to have a point. it's simply another choice offered to shooters who have the ability to accept different things for what they are. Some people get their undergarments all in a bunch over Moon Clips....really?

BigG
October 18, 2012, 09:28 AM
S&W 940 is a nice, quality revolver.

CraigC
October 18, 2012, 11:53 AM
The Taurus 905 doesnt need the moon clips to operate.
Neither does anything chambered in .38Spl. Sorry but I wouldn't take a free Taurus.


Some people get their undergarments all in a bunch over Moon Clips....really?
My drawers ain't bunched up at all. I just ain't playin' that game. I'll leave it to those enamored with the silly things. He asked "why aren't 9mm revolvers more popular?" and he got his answers. No need to get hostile towards those who don't see the point.

weblance
October 18, 2012, 01:03 PM
Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have. If you guys want to keep shooting your .38s and spending your money on a weaker, more expensive round, simply because most people are shooting a .38 revolver, then thats just fine with me. I feel I have found something that is really worth telling people about, but not many are listening. I will continue to shoot my revolver, enjoying its cheap ammo, getting more snub nose practice, and smiling all the while.

2zulu1
October 18, 2012, 01:35 PM
Why limit the potential of a wheelgun with 9mm? Using the Starline website as an example, 357mag brass costs the same as 9mm +P, also, as a handloader, I'd feel more comfortable on the trail with a 38 Special/170gr Keith bullet than anything in 9mm.

As others have stated, when 9mm wheelguns were offered commercially, buyers weren't impressed. Even the 10mm is not popular compared to other wheelgun calibers, including the 38 Special.

CraigC
October 18, 2012, 02:16 PM
Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they don't understand with every ounce of energy they have.
You can peddle that crap somewhere else. 'Some' of us have been doing this for a long time, have a lot invested and might have figured out a few things. We don't take condescension particularly well. If I wanted to shoot a 35,000psi cartridge out of a small frame revolver, I'd step right past the puny 9mm and pick up a .357.

I also wouldn't call a moon-clipped, rimless auto cartridge in a revolver a "new idea". As I do seem to recall the sixguns of WWI. :rolleyes:

You'll get more practice when you step up to the next level and start handloading.

45_auto
October 18, 2012, 02:21 PM
Why Arent 9mm Revolvers More Popular?

Same reason most military and law enforcement don't use them:

something like a Glock 26 is the same size and holds more than twice as much of the exact same ammo.

As a range toy or less-than-optimal carry gun it's fine, but most people aren't shooters and will buy only one gun for self-defense. Given the choice between 5 or 11 rounds in a self-defense weapon, the vast majority will choose 11.

If you're just looking for a small revolver with versatility, a .357 mag is the obvious choice. It's the same size. Even if you don't reload, there is a vast variety of ammo available for it (from light .38 wadcutters to heavy .357 loads) that is not available in 9mm. Ergo, 9mm revolvers don't sell well.

56hawk
October 18, 2012, 03:15 PM
Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have.

I think this can be summed up with one question. What can a 9mm revolver do that a 357 can't? The only answer is; shoot 9mm ammo.

So the benefit of a 9mm revolver is that you can currently find 9mm ammo that is cheaper than 38 special ammo (Reloading eliminates this price difference). The downsides are that you usually have to use clips (some 357s are also setup for clips), and some ammo will jam the gun due to the tapered case of the 9mm.

2zulu1
October 18, 2012, 03:31 PM
Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have. If you guys want to keep shooting your .38s and spending your money on a weaker, more expensive round, simply because most people are shooting a .38 revolver, then thats just fine with me. I feel I have found something that is really worth telling people about, but not many are listening. I will continue to shoot my revolver, enjoying its cheap ammo, getting more snub nose practice, and smiling all the while.
New idea??? I can remember Ruger selling 9mm cylinders for Blackhawks decades ago.

As far as new ideas go, why aren't you carrying a 327 Fed Mag in a snub wheelgun?

tekarra
October 18, 2012, 08:57 PM
The Taurus 905 does not need moon clips to shoot the 9 mm cartridge, but you have to pluck them out with your fingernail or tap them out from the front of the cylinder. This can be annoying.

One thing the moon clip does is prevent set back of the cartridge case against recoil shield during firing. The 9 mm is a tapered case and can set back upon firing. For this reason, S&W added the limit pin to the 547.

R.W.Dale
October 20, 2012, 11:51 AM
By in large with a 905 Taurus and even a 30-30 BFR Ive found that case setback is an entirely overblown non issue.

The only time it occurs is with oily chambers. With a properly cared for revolver it simply doesn't happen




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

HiCap1
October 20, 2012, 03:28 PM
Silvermane 1, the box of rimmed 9mm cartridges is marked as follows: "9mm FEDERAL, 115 jacketed hollow point bullet, no. 9F A, For use in revolvers only". I was given the two boxes ten or so years aho. I have tried them in the HKS speedloader no. 36 for J frames and Tauri small frames (.38 and .357). I will see if it works with the Taurus 905 on Monday. These loads in the speedloader makes a neat package.

HiCap

C0untZer0
October 20, 2012, 11:05 PM
The Charter Arms 9mm Federal come up for sale every so often on Gun Auction.

To me the 9mm fed defeats at least some of the purpose of having a 9mm revolver. If I'm going to get an entirely different cartridge from what my semi-autos fire then I might as well get a 357 magnum.

The Charter Arms PITBULL rimless revolver in 9mm Luger is taking FOR-E V E R...

I'm starting to think they won't be available in 2012

I sent an e-mail to Dan at Czechpoint USA and he said the 9231 will be back in stock in the spring of 2013.

The 9231 is the 3" barrel version of Alfa Proj's 9mm revolvers. I'd like to get the 6" version someday (9261).

snooperman
October 21, 2012, 01:31 PM
The 9mm revolver is a gun that is not needed. Hence, they just have not sold well. We have the 38 special +P and if that is not enough, we go straight to the 357 magnum. It is not hard to figure out.

HiCap1
October 21, 2012, 03:12 PM
Snooperman, the reason for the 9mm revolver is ammunition; the AVAILABILITY of it, not the ballistics. As a backup for someone who carries a 9mm as a duty weapon, or for someone who likes to practice with a snubbie and who can buy 100 rounds for $16 and not $32 for .38s and who doesn't reload.

I, for one, will sell my 9mm revolver when I shoot my inventory of 9mm, and will have saved $160 for one thousand shots which will more than make up for the $50 which I will loose when I trade the 9mm in. AND, I will have had one thousand practice rounds.

HiCap

snooperman
October 21, 2012, 03:31 PM
I also understand your rationale for having the 9mm revolver , but the fact remains not enough people also share your idea. S&W could not make it work for them either. It has to be profitable and it was not. It remains to be seen if it will catch on again. I doubt it. Most people who want a back-up gun to their main 9mm duty gun will buy a small glock 26 or something similar from the same company not a revolver with different mechanics. In fact that is what is happening. Look at the facts.

snooperman
October 21, 2012, 03:39 PM
If I carry a 9mm Glock 17, as my duty gun, why would I want to carry a Different gun as my back-up , when all I need to do is buy the Glock 26, which can use the same magazines, ammo , and have the same mechanics. The rationale you present is something many people do not want to do. Including me.

HiCap1
October 21, 2012, 05:56 PM
Snooperman, the falacy of your argument is that some people do like a revolver as a BUG. But the Federal 9mm, the .45 GAP and the Federal .327 magnum are examples of the solutions to non-existant problems. There is a perceived issue to be addressed for each, the 9mm rimmed for the few 9mm revolvers, the .45 GAP for a slimmer grip and the .327 for a sixth powerful round in a small frame revolver, but certainly not necessary given the hardware and ammunition that is available. And that, sir, is exactly why there is little or no market for those rounds. But there is a purpose in them, for thems that like them, and what better reason.

HiCap

snooperman
October 21, 2012, 06:30 PM
There is an old saying, " If there is a niche , in time it will be filled";
whether it is an ecological concept or one involving the making and selling of guns. At this time I do not see it for the 9mm, but we will have to wait and see if it does. It has not in the past. The 9mm rim presents problems for manufacturers that may not pay for their investment too. The profit margin may not be there and the whole process is based on this.

golden
October 23, 2012, 03:39 PM
Weblance,

I think the question you should have asked is, WHAT DOES A 9m.m. REVOLVER DO BETTER FOR ME THAN ANY OTHER CALIBER? If you had asked that question, you would have your answer,

Do I get a more powerful gun if it is chambered for 9m.m.?

Answer, it depends on your load and the gun. If the gun is a small frame (say a 5 shot J frame or COLT D frame size), you get more power from a standard 9m.m. than a standard .38 Special. If you compare +P .38 to standard 9m.m., I think the difference is not worth worrying about.

If you up the ante to 9m.m.+P or +P+, then you should compare to the .357 magnum. However, both will recoil too heavily for me to shoot accurately and I think most people will skip over a J-frame loaded with .357 or 9m.m.+P+ after just a few rounds.

As I said, I have one of the nicest 9m.m. revolvers ever made, the S&W 547. It shoots very much like a S&W model 13 loaded with ,357 magnums. So why bother.
Most people either buy a gun because they need one, like for a house or car gun or for CCW or they buy because they are into guns, either for using or collecting. That leaves the 9m.m. revolver in a small, niche market.

You may notice that the wonderful, super perfect revolver round (at least it is according to some gun writers), the ,327 magnum is not burning up the market. It should be popular, but it may never sell any better than the .32 H&R magnum because it is a round for a GUN PERSON. Police departments are not buying it, nor are military or government agencies.

If the FBI or BORDER PATROL or MARINE CORP adopted a 9m.m. revolver, it would undoubtedly become much more popular.

Ask yourself, what does a J-frame, 5 shot 9m.m. do better than either a .38 Special (with reasonable recoil) or a .357 magnum J frame do?

I asked myself this a long time ago and now I carry a .380ACP SIG 232 when I am not carrying a holster gun.

Oh, the one thing a 9m.m. revolver might do, is offer a more compact revolver than a .38 Special because of the overall length needed for the cylinder and thus frame length.
TAURUS has announced a .380ACP revolver. It uses a short cylinder and short frame to reduce size and weight. If it catches on, maybe a 9m.m. revolver might be produced. Then we could see if it stands on its own merits.

Jim

Gun00b
October 23, 2012, 11:03 PM
I think part of the problem with pistol chambered revolvers, like 9mm or .45 ACP and things of that sort, is that people just go with autos.

I know a lot of revolver lovers that just don't want 9mm because they have a .357 that shoots both .38 and .357.

I think they'd rather just stick with the automatic pistols for the 9mm, faster reloading for some....

but hey, my first gun purchase ever is a ruger LCR .38, and if you had told me they had a 9mm version, I would have gone with 9mm.

captain awesome
October 24, 2012, 01:17 AM
Why Arent 9mm Revolvers More Popular?
because few really want one. Personally I like my revolvers not needing extra things, like moon clips, and they are my handgun style of choice because I don't need those or magazines. And I can get way better performance out of a 357 anyway. And yet even though I don't own a 9mm, never have, and probably never will, for some reason I have a small garbage can full of 9mm brass.

gandog56
October 26, 2012, 10:23 PM
I really don't know. If I HAD to get a revolver that uses moon clips, it would probably be a 10mm, not a 9mm.

weblance
October 27, 2012, 01:36 AM
Why do people buy 22 LR handguns when 357s are much more powerful? Maybe because they are cheap to shoot...? Brilliant! The 9mm standard load has power levels equal to .38+P. The cheapest .38+P I have found is Winchester White Box for $28 per box of 50. I can buy 9mm Federal for $10.50 per 50. Yes, I have to clip them into a moon clip. Oh, the horror! You guys can argue all you want about 357s being more powerful than 9mm. Yeah, I get that. No argument there. Can you buy 357 ammo for $10.50? Can you even buy lower performing standard .38 special ammo for $10.50? Not even close. For those of us who dont reload(again, Im sure the majority of shooters)and have to buy factory loaded ammo, the 9mm makes sense to me. The 9mm is the most popular centerfire handgun cartridge worldwide. Revolvers are reliable, popular, and accurate. Im not arguing revolver vs autoloader. Im also not a 9mm only snob. I own revolvers in .38 Special, 357 Magnum, and 44 Magnum. I enjoy all my centerfire revolvers, but when it comes to the bottom line, my 9mm revolver gives up nothing in performance, and financially, wins hands down.

snooperman
October 27, 2012, 10:39 AM
Weblance, the problem is that there just are not as many shooters out there that are like you who would buy them to make it profitable for the Gun companies.

CraigC
October 27, 2012, 11:00 AM
Weblance, then knock yourself out. At least you won't have to compete with us for 9mm revolvers. Enjoy your moonclips, I'll enjoy life without them. :rolleyes:

R.W.Dale
October 27, 2012, 11:20 AM
Its a good thing we don't have clips that you have to load with 17 rounds + with our tender fingers before we can shoot. Such a thing would be so massively inconvenient NOBODY would buy such an abomination.

S&w and ruger no longer make 9mm revolvers because they felt compelled to make them DIFFERENTLY than they did 38/357 revolvers thus increasing costs.

Taurus actually took the smart route and went with a thinner (albeit somewhat flimsy) clip that fits 9mm cases behind a cylinder with 38 headspace dimensions and no added machining other than reaming the cylinder with a 9mm reamer instead of 38

This is why Taurus can still offer their excellent little 905 at a price only marginally higher than the same gun in 38




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

motorcycle-charlie
October 27, 2012, 11:28 AM
Guess the main thing is that they don't fill any niche. Unless you have a bunch of 9mm ammo and like revolvers, there isn't anything that something else doesn't do better.[/QUOTE]

I have a bunch of 9mm ammo and like revolvers better than autos. I have one hi cap auto that I really don't shoot much. It's just not as enjoyable as my wheels. I would buy a 9mm snub nose revolver if it is priced right and American made.

C0untZer0
October 27, 2012, 11:41 AM
I would buy a 9mm snub nose revolver if it is priced right.

I don't see how anyone can argue that the Taurus 905 isn't priced right. And the owners have given good reviews of the guns on the Internet.

I keep thinking about getting one but the things I don't like about it in order are:

1) I don't like a .38 spl cylinder for a 9mm revolver - I want a shorter "9mm sized" cylinder. I guess they would be 30 - 31 mm (1.181 to 1.22") I think...

2) It's a Taurus

motorcycle-charlie
October 27, 2012, 11:53 AM
I am not arguing the Taurus 905 isn't priced right. I did go back and edit my post to include the gun be American made. I am a toolmaker by trade and try to buy American whenever possible. I know that usually drives the price up on most things but the quality is USUALLY better than foreign competition.

C0untZer0
October 27, 2012, 12:03 PM
I know...

And even though I've heard good things about the 905 from owners, I'm still leary of it just because it's a Taurus.

I can't help myself.

R.W.Dale
October 27, 2012, 01:02 PM
I know...

And even though I've heard good things about the 905 from owners, I'm still leary of it just because it's a Taurus.

I can't help myself.

I will only buy their revolvers and only then when I can inspect em in person




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

snooperman
October 27, 2012, 03:54 PM
About 50 years ago, I could not wait to buy a 1917 45ACP. But, after fooling around with those moon clips a few times I traded it off for a S&W model 27 and am glad I did. To me revolvers and moon clips are a bad mix. Apparently many others feel the same way.

mtnkid85
October 27, 2012, 05:24 PM
Ive been casually trying to find a 905 locally for probally two years. No one has them, I may go ahead and just order one as I really like the idea of a 9mm revolver.

I have seen that 380acp Taurus, does it infact have its own shorter frame? That is something that I think would improve the 905.

*EDIT* Sure enough, a quick google search does verify the Taurus M380 having own frame. Now just if they would chamber it in 9mm, if it would take it I guess.

weblance
October 27, 2012, 11:21 PM
Ive been casually trying to find a 905 locally for probally two years. No one has them, I may go ahead and just order one as I really like the idea of a 9mm revolver.

Ive been very happy with my 905. I posted a short review, at the start of this thread(link). I would probably get one of the M380 revolvers, if it wasnt DAO. There were DA versions of these, but they are discontinued.

stevehenry1
November 4, 2012, 10:14 PM
I've seen a couple of 9mm revolvers. But the biggest problem:banghead: I've seen is that they have a .38 sized cylinder. They could make the gun smaller if they used a shorter cylinder and maybe the extra length in the barrel .. That extra cylinder length adds needless weight and bulk to the gun They need to design from the ground up a small 9mm revolver, instead of adapting a .357 to 9mm. THAT would probably sell.

stevehenry1
November 4, 2012, 10:20 PM
Snooperman. I shoot BOTH a 1917 AND a Model 25. I don't use moonclips on either. And I just pop the empties out with my fingernail. They are not tight in the cylinder, and have never had a problem ever, even with Wolf

weblance
November 5, 2012, 03:03 AM
Steve... I explained the fact that the moon clips are not needed, but apairently no one reads the comments, they just post whatever they have heard someone else say. Hey, I read somewhere that moon clips are bad, so then, moon clips must be bad, really bad. That guy over at such&such.com said they were bad. Its a waist of time.

BSA1
November 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
Why aren’t 9mm revolvers popular?

For me I believe it is due to three reasons:

#3; Moonclips are a pain to remove fired brass from. Most purists recognize the need for a easier way so they buy a tool designed to make the removal of brass simpler and quicker. Since such a tool is not included with the gun it is a extra cost accessory.

#2; Lack of education about the advantages of 9mm in a revolver to which I confess. Until recently I did not know that the 9mm can be 200 fps faster than the 38 in a snubbie. 200 fps in my book is a big step up.

The second part of lack of education has to do with the tactical advantage of reloads. Two full moon clips of 9mm stacked together are the same size of one speedloader filled with 38’s. That represents double the amount of ammo plus a much more simple reload process; open cylinder, eject empty moonclip, insert loaded clip, close cylinder and bingo! You are back in action.

With a 38.357; open cylinder, eject rounds fully (if you don’t there is the possibility of one getting hung up under the exactor), insert speedloader, turn knob or push speedloader in far enough to release rounds, toss away speedloader, now finally close the cylinder.

As for “topping off” the revolver during/a pause or after a gun fight. Get real! Under fire, under stress and better yet how about in the dark? The shooter is suppose to be cool enough to identify the number of fired rounds, partly extract them, remove them one by one with his fingers, then fish for loose rounds in his pocket and feed them into the cylinder again one by one.

#1; The most important reason for why aren’t 9mm revolvers popular is due to gun magazines.

That’s right. Gun rags frequently feature various models of the 1911 on their cover and articles about why you need a custom thousand dollar + 45 to defend yourself while totally ignoring the real world needs and economic realities of the average gun owner.

alternety
February 10, 2013, 06:44 PM
My reasons for a Charter Arms 9mm Pitbull.

My wife is unable to operate the slide on any semi-auto we have tried.

No moon clips but a bit awkward to unload and load. Requires some practice. In reality my wife will probably not carry a reload. So the more reliable revolver wins. She would not be able to clear an auto.

Low mass makes the Pitbull a bit nastier on recoil. But not unusable.

9mm more effective than 38.

I carry 9mm. We can share.

It would be nice if they had shortened the gun from the 38/357 or 40 cal it is derived from.

urbaneruralite
February 10, 2013, 07:38 PM
'Cause you can beat it with a .327, shoot .32s for cheaper and not have to fart around with clips or special extraction systems.

C0untZer0
February 11, 2013, 12:20 AM
I think they're great

You can shoot everything from shot shells / Glaser Safety Slugs / and 105gr Federal Gaurd Dog (which performs a lot like a 380 AUTO round) to the Underwood 147 +P+ GoldDots (man do those things mushroom out !)

Czechpoint is still sold out of their 9231 (3" Alfa Proj 9mm revolvers.)

And apparantly Charter Arms is only making four 9mm Pitbulls a year... :(

I really wanted one, I just didn't have the cash to get a Rorhbaugh R9 and the 9231 (I know someone is saying I could have purchased a Kel-Tec or a CM9 and had money left over to buy the revolver...)

Anyway they are sold out now :(

PabloJ
February 11, 2013, 12:43 AM
Instead of buying Glock 24 like I intended came home five-shot 9mm S&W revolver.:rolleyes: The Glock which was in new condition was <$100 more. I deserve to be kicked in the head by a donkey.:banghead:
Took revenge yesterday by bringing home G20 with combat night sights, Surefire light and six magazines. Life is grand now.;)

Clark
February 11, 2013, 11:22 AM
My grandfather carried an Iever Johnson 38 S&W revolver 100 years ago in the Alaskan Gold rush.

That is a piece of junk revolver for hot rod loads [The latch loop will stretch], but there are very well built small 38S&W revolvers of that era that I have been loading to 9mm performance with .355" 115 gr JHP.

9mm is 1.169" OAL
38 S&W is 1.299" OAL
It is a little longer, so I run a little less pressure.

So while my grandfather was carrying black powder and an IJ
I am carrying a Unique and a Colt, which would have been available at the time, if he had the money and where with all.

RavenTai
February 12, 2013, 11:01 AM
Why do people buy 22 LR handguns when 357s are much more powerful? Maybe because they are cheap to shoot...? Brilliant! The 9mm standard load has power levels equal to .38+P. The cheapest .38+P I have found is Winchester White Box for $28 per box of 50. I can buy 9mm Federal for $10.50 per 50. Yes, I have to clip them into a moon clip. Oh, the horror! You guys can argue all you want about 357s being more powerful than 9mm. Yeah, I get that. No argument there. Can you buy 357 ammo for $10.50? Can you even buy lower performing standard .38 special ammo for $10.50? Not even close. For those of us who dont reload(again, Im sure the majority of shooters)and have to buy factory loaded ammo, the 9mm makes sense to me. The 9mm is the most popular centerfire handgun cartridge worldwide. Revolvers are reliable, popular, and accurate. Im not arguing revolver vs autoloader. Im also not a 9mm only snob. I own revolvers in .38 Special, 357 Magnum, and 44 Magnum. I enjoy all my centerfire revolvers, but when it comes to the bottom line, my 9mm revolver gives up nothing in performance, and financially, wins hands down.


No it does not win financially, I am a gun nut on a starvation budget, I am well aware of the increasingly ugly economics of our hobby, The $500 price of entry on a 9mm revolver buys me using your numbers 2,380 rounds to shoot in the 9mm auto I already have. I would certainly take a 9mm revolver if you gave me one but it is not something i would spend my money on.

Using moon clips is not the end of the world, it is not horrible, but it is an extra step, extra things you have to buy, store, keep track of, remember to bring with you, and replace when lost or broken, they are just extra and unwanted, as is picking out each spent cartridge one by one with your fingernail, its just a less efficient a method to getting to the goal of sending lead downrange. the vast majority of the gun buying public agrees so they are not popular.

I do think a ultra light ultra compact LCR style 9mm revolver with a 9mm length cylinder and an ejection system that can reliably eject all the spent cases at once without using moon clips would have a wider appeal. it would have a real advantage over other revolvers, that is something that could replace the in moms and the the girlfriends purse. both of whom complain agout the weight of their .38 titanium revolvers. a 9mm could theoretically be lighter with a shorter cylinder and frame.

PabloJ
February 12, 2013, 02:55 PM
I have bought boxed one in top shape for $500. Do not buy them it's was big mistake for me. You get five or six shots which is not enough before having to reload. For about $50 more I could have bought Glock 24.

tiamat
February 12, 2013, 03:03 PM
looking to sell it?

CraigC
February 12, 2013, 03:07 PM
For about $50 more I could have bought Glock 24.
If we all used that logic, none of us would have revolvers. :rolleyes:

cl4de6
February 12, 2013, 09:06 PM
9 X 21..? Seriously? Why would they chamber this in 9x21? Thats very strange, unless its a missprint. 9 x 21 is not 9mm Luger. 9mm Luger is 9 x 19. I doubt they would sell any at all in 9x21.
9x21 is legal for use in many countries where 9x19 is considered "War Caliber" and illegal for civilian use.

Italy is one of those places.

WC145
February 12, 2013, 09:13 PM
PabloJ -
That S&W 940 will always be worth more than the Glock you wish you bought instead. If you're interested in getting rid of it send me some pics, if it looks good I might be persuaded to give you what you paid for it. Then you can go buy the Glock.

RUT
February 13, 2013, 06:59 AM
>>Everybody jumps up & down screaming they want to buy one.
But when the major firearms manufactures make them, nobody buys enough of them to pay for the tooling.<<

This pretty much sums it up. And to me, dealing with moon clips is a pain in the butt! :cool:

PabloJ
February 13, 2013, 07:52 AM
looking to sell it?
Had to sell few G20 mags to get Galco holster for the gun plus I bought new grip and bunch of moon clips from S&W. I traded my beloved Gen 3 G29 for new Gen 4 G20 so now the 9mm S&W is the only small handgun I own. Wish I could dump that thing, but I have too much effort and time spent to unload it. I advise you to get modern pistol like G26 instead of 9mm revolver.

MagnunJoe
February 13, 2013, 10:37 AM
Looking forward 2 the Charter Arms 9mm revolver. Whenever it comes out. & whenever I cn get my hands on 1.

gandog56
February 13, 2013, 04:56 PM
If I was to get a revolver that required a moonclip, It would be a 10.., not a 9mm.

SharpsDressedMan
February 13, 2013, 06:08 PM
Moon clips can get bent in pockets. Slows your cylinder down terribly.

HiVel1
February 13, 2013, 06:09 PM
I owned a S&W 940 , 9mm, SS, J frame revolver for a short while. Moon clips not a problem, gun was pretty , kicked hard, stuck itself together, and some guy offered me way more than I paid for it. I sold it. I also had a SS S&W 3" barrel 41 Mag. Nice gun , not much ammo variety available (did not reload 41), kicked like a mule with std Rem ammo and I was offered a lot more than I paid for it -the cylinder kept unscrewing itself from the yoke. I sold it. Guess what?? I wish I had them both back !! I kept my moon clips for the 9mm just in case.

I have a 6 1/4" S&W revolver in 10mm and a Niteguard in 10mm and I am keeping them. I can shoot .40 in them and that is close enough to 9mm until I can get a Charter. I also have a (1950 version) of a TR Smith in .45ACP and one in 44 Special (the one with the gold sign on it!) . I like revolvers and moon clips!
Buy what you like and shoot it!!

PabloJ
February 14, 2013, 02:15 AM
I owned a S&W 940 , 9mm, SS, J frame revolver for a short while. Moon clips not a problem, gun was pretty , kicked hard, stuck itself together, and some guy offered me way more than I paid for it. I sold it. I also had a SS S&W 3" barrel 41 Mag. Nice gun , not much ammo variety available (did not reload 41), kicked like a mule with std Rem ammo and I was offered a lot more than I paid for it -the cylinder kept unscrewing itself from the yoke. I sold it. Guess what?? I wish I had them both back !! I kept my moon clips for the 9mm just in case.

I have a 6 1/4" S&W revolver in 10mm and a Niteguard in 10mm and I am keeping them. I can shoot .40 in them and that is close enough to 9mm until I can get a Charter. I also have a (1950 version) of a TR Smith in .45ACP and one in 44 Special (the one with the gold sign on it!) . I like revolvers and moon clips!
Buy what you like and shoot it!!
The five shot 9mm is very easy to replace. The same exact gun in .38/357 is model 640. You should be able to get used one in top shape for about $400 to $450.

PabloJ
February 14, 2013, 02:18 AM
Moon clips can get bent in pockets. Slows your cylinder down terribly.
That is why Michigan Highway Patrol nixed 940s as backup guns. Out of shape moon clips rendered them USELESS.

R.W.Dale
February 14, 2013, 02:25 AM
That is why Michigan Highway Patrol nixed 940s as backup guns. Out of shape moon clips rendered them USELESS.

I think the whole reload-moon clip thing is really being overthought.

When I carried my 905 I carried it loaded with rounds on a clip.

HOWEVER my reload was five 9mm cartridges on a speed strip.

Think about it. Many folks only carry one reload anyways for revolvers. So just how critical is it to need to be able to eject that second cylinder of empties without another five to put in?




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

Wilbert
February 14, 2013, 03:06 AM
What would be the reason you couldn't shoot a .380 acp through it?

R.W.Dale
February 14, 2013, 03:35 AM
What would be the reason you couldn't shoot a .380 acp through it?

380 is not just a short 9mm

9mm is tapered 380 is not

The pic below shows a 380 case in a 9mm chamber.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/FIRE/2012-04-22180644.jpg

Supposedly if you use the right moon clip you can shoot 380 in a 38/357 chambered revolver




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

cougar1717
February 14, 2013, 05:44 PM
Why aren't 9mm revolvers more popular?

...because no one can find 9mm ammo, right?:)

It's the same as a lot of other consumer goods: There is a portion of the gun-buying public that absolutely loves a certain product. The problem is, they assume that their fanfare is representative of the whole gun-buying public. Manufacturers will create a product based on perceived demand. If that demand doesn't materialize, they've got to slash prices on their inventory to move it. When they do that, they really don't want to continue taking a loss, so the product gets discontinued.

weblance
February 14, 2013, 07:30 PM
Well... Taurus hasnt discontinued the 905, and from what Ive seen, watching online inventories, seems to sell pretty well. I dont know how many they produce, but they sell out, get replenished and sell out again. If Charter Arms would ever make the Pitbull in 9mm, they would sell also, but it seems like they aren't interested in making more than about 10 a month.

Liberty1776
February 14, 2013, 10:18 PM
they aren't popular because they offer an answer to a non-existent problem...

Wilbert
February 15, 2013, 01:00 AM
R.W.Dale,
Thanks, I always like learning new things, and nothing beats a picture

weblance
February 15, 2013, 12:12 PM
they aren't popular because they offer an answer to a non-existent problem...

Um... yeah, whatever

GLOOB
February 15, 2013, 06:58 PM
Re: Cylinder length
Besides the argument of existing frames, there is a practical reason to NOT have a 9mm-length cylinder. Gas cutting and/or jacket spitting through the cylinder gap could cut you up if you held it wrong.

Due to the long cylinder length, there would be a big jump to the rifling. Cast bullets might have a hard time gripping the rifling out of a 9mm revolver?

I guess I wasnt thinking there was a world outside the USA. That does make sense as I know there are places where the general population isnt allowed a military cartridge(9x19), but I think they need to offer it also in 9x19.
If they are using a traditional design that headspaces off the moon clip, then no, they don't need a 9x19. 9x19 could be fired out of a (suitably strong) 9x21 moon clip revolver with absolutely no downside. Plus retain the ability to fire 9x21.... after a good cleaning, anyway.

C0untZer0
February 15, 2013, 09:34 PM
I doubt Charter Arms is making 10 a month.

And it's too bad for them because there is a lot of Internet buzz about the guns, and I think a lot of people would get them for range toys or to throw in a bug out bag, and for all the reasons listed here.

I think they would have sold a ton of them in this current environment, but oh well...

weblance
February 15, 2013, 11:04 PM
I have been looking for a Charter Arms Pitbull 9mm revolver for over a year. They are not available. Simple as that. I have 4 different dealers looking, and nothing. Ok, maybe 10 a month was an exaggeration, its probably more like 12 a month.

Tomcat47
February 15, 2013, 11:53 PM
My 905 by far one of my most favorite revolvers!

And I also threw my moon clips in the box, do not use them no more, I found speed loaders from 5 star and I use them and do not have any issues at all using Speer Lawman, Federal Premium, Hydrashok, or Hornady Critical defense....

Cases have always fell right out. A couple other brands do need clips, but the above do not stick in my 905.

I have always thought that a little more engineering on the extractor mechanism would make sales of these revolvers skyrocket?

HiVel1
February 17, 2013, 12:40 PM
I would like to get one myself--by the way those speedloaders, blocks and other accessories from "5-star" are excellent products -I love 'em.

Waywatcher
February 17, 2013, 01:32 PM
Why Arent 9mm Revolvers More Popular?

Because they are a high pressure, rimless, tapered cased design.

The .357 magnum operates at the same pressure, is straight walled, and has a rim. Heavier bullets are possible due to the case design, although it can use light bullets too. All of these features make it a more useful revolver cartridge.

If a gun is built to handle 35,000 psi, why would I go with 9mm revolver, when I could have a .357 magnum?

wriggly
February 17, 2013, 01:51 PM
Because they are a high pressure, rimless, tapered cased design.

The .357 magnum operates at the same pressure, is straight walled, and has a rim. Heavier bullets are possible due to the case design, although it can use light bullets too. All of these features make it a more useful revolver cartridge.

If a gun is built to handle 35,000 psi, why would I go with 9mm revolver, when I could have a .357 magnum?
In the past, the mere fact that 9mm cost less than half what a box of .357 cost would have been enough to attract some buyers. Less these days though due to the Ammo Madness.

I bought a 905 and a Ruger LCR on the same day, same transaction at my LGS a month and a half back. We have a 72 hour wait here in Illinois, it was enough time for me to come to my senses and cancel the 905. It was the last one they had, and last I saw, it was still in the case.

I did not like the cheap crummy clips that came with it, and the guy down state that EDM's some nice ones pissed me off with his one word responses in some email inquiries about his product, so it was a no brainer for me to cancel.

C0untZer0
February 17, 2013, 02:09 PM
I have been looking for a Charter Arms Pitbull 9mm revolver for over a year. They are not available. Simple as that. I have 4 different dealers looking, and nothing. Ok, maybe 10 a month was an exaggeration, its probably more like 12 a month.

I've been looking for one for 6 months:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8274016#post8274016

Ever since Dee Ecker responded to an e-mail saying the PITBULLs were shipping...

barnbwt
February 17, 2013, 03:21 PM
Besides the argument of existing frames, there is a practical reason to NOT have a 9mm-length cylinder. Gas cutting and/or jacket spitting through the cylinder gap could cut you up if you held it wrong.
And a slide can tear up your hand if you hold it wrong. And both can shoot your hand if you hold it backwards. Can any semiauto function when fired beneath clothing without hanging up when it cycles? Can a revolver be limp-wristed? Will a semi-auto load a new round if a round is a dud or fails to cycle the slide? There's advantages/disadvantages to both platforms, and a million threads on them.

My theory is 9mm revolvers are unpopular because 9mm has always been synonymous with semi-autos, and the thought just doesn't occur to people (or they are immediately hostile to it). I don't know why it would be any different than a well-accepted revolver in a similar power rimmed cartridge like 38+P+, but it gets people up in arms.

TCB

easyg
February 17, 2013, 04:52 PM
If a gun is built to handle 35,000 psi, why would I go with 9mm revolver, when I could have a .357 magnum?
Because shooting .357 magnum loads from a small light weight revolver is painful and extremely unpleasant.
This leads to less shooting, which leads to less proficiency.

oldfool
February 17, 2013, 06:53 PM
Because shooting .357 magnum loads from a small light weight revolver is painful and extremely unpleasant.
This leads to less shooting, which leads to less proficiency.
true

but you have an virtually unlimited array of loadings you can choose in 38/357, far moreso than any 9mm, or even a 380/9mm (if such there be other than vaporware)

been tempted by 9mm wheelguns many a time, and I am all for anybody wants one getting one, if/when they can
but you just gotta' want it a little more than most
no special reasons and/or excuses required, just some cash

PabloJ
February 17, 2013, 06:58 PM
Because they are a high pressure, rimless, tapered cased design.

The .357 magnum operates at the same pressure, is straight walled, and has a rim. Heavier bullets are possible due to the case design, although it can use light bullets too. All of these features make it a more useful revolver cartridge.

If a gun is built to handle 35,000 psi, why would I go with 9mm revolver, when I could have a .357 magnum?
There is no reason to make 9x19 revolver when one can shoot .38Spl, .38Spl+, and .357 out of .357 revolver. S&W tried this game by cataloging five-shot J-frame revolver for good while and almost nobody bought them.

MagnunJoe
April 17, 2013, 11:56 PM
Hey boys, lets revive this puppy, the topic is very interesting. Besides, charter arms keeps telling us about their 9mm revolver.

alternety
April 18, 2013, 02:35 AM
I have a 9mm Pitbull. I got it for my wife because she does not have the hand strength to operate an auto. It lets us share ammo (if there were any). It is noticeably less pleasant to fire than a Boberg Shorty. But it is not bad and reasonably quick to reacquire the target. Regular 9mm is a better round than a .38 and a .357 is way too much for her. Probably me as well in that light weight gun.

35 Whelen
April 18, 2013, 10:28 PM
Hey, wait a minute!! If the firearms world "needs" a revolver in 9mm, then they also must "need" a Glock in .38 Special. Right? But like the 9mm revolver, people just haven't come to their senses and realized how bad they "need" a Glock 38 Special...:rolleyes:

housecat
April 19, 2013, 02:11 AM
I know it is not fiscally feasible to put out a line of 9mm revolvers, but that does not prevent me from wanting, and having one. My SP101 Makes me quite happy. I tend to like revolvers, especially those chambered for pistol catridges, (owing a 45 acp and a 10mm also.) They are also quite handy for loads that don't quite work out in auto pistols. I'd much rather shoot them than pull them down.

MagnunJoe
April 19, 2013, 09:40 AM
Here is link... Enjoy!

http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Pitbull_79920.asp

Dframe
April 19, 2013, 10:25 AM
I owned an SP 101 for a while. Mine always shot way low. No idea why. Eventually sold it after I realised it wouldn't do anything as well as a good 357 snub. To those who like them "more power to you". For me it just didn't click.

boricua9mm
April 19, 2013, 06:49 PM
I have a decent amount of experience shooting the 547 in both 3" and 4" barrel lengths. I found that variations on case rim thicknesses might result in some cartridges not getting ejected; that fact remains relevant considering that we're still talking full-length ejectors here. Nonetheless, that wasn't the death knell for 9mm revolvers in and of itself. There is a lot of irony when we discuss the so-called "failings" of a 9mm revolver.

-"If I'm gonna have a 9mm, might as well have a _____!" This isn't a bad argument against buying a 9mm revolver in and of itself. What is funny is that the 9mm is ballistically superior to the .38 Special. When we look at the reverse side of the coin, we also have people say "If I'm going to have a 125gr projectile moving at 950 FPS, I'd feel better with a 124gr. 9mm moving at 1200+ FPS with a quicker reload and much more ammo on hand!" I myself have sided with this argument for my own concealed carry needs, however, if a situation calls for a .38 SPL revolver, how can the 9mm revolver be a bad choice? Simple answer: it isn't.

-"Moon clips are a pain in the gleuts!" Loading up magazines isn't much fun for anyone either. Ask companies like MagLULA if they'd agree. If you don't want moonclips, there's the S&W 547 system, but it's a bit more complex and expensive to manufacture.

-".38 SPL is a more versatile cartridge!" LOL! You can have 9mm pretty much any way you want it short of a wadcutter. Remember, Fiocchi even offers a subsonic 158gr. 9mm load, so that argument bears no weight.

-".38 SPL is more widely available!" On what trail head, or should I say planet?

-".38 SPL is cheaper b/c I reload" Up until recent events which have put us in a tailspin, most folks have found that 9mm was cheap enough that it wasn't even worth their time to reload it. Remember, before this madness began you could buy factory 9mm ammo for much, much cheaper than .38SPL.
_________________________________________________________________

At the end of the day, I think the 9mm revolver should be successful endeavor for any company, but consumers keep talking themselves out of the idea time after time. For those that really like to shoot revolvers, guns like the S&W 547 have a huge amount of appeal. For those whose focus constantly shifts to the full capacity 9mm semi-auto, the concept is doomed.

I do find it funny that people would question the sense in a 9mm revolver, yet they withhold that very same judgement from .38 SPL revolvers.

Equally funny is the claims that "it's an answer to a non-existent problem." If I remember it correctly, the S&W 547 was designed for the French Police specifically to solve the problem of ammo commonality & availability in Europe.

tekarra
April 19, 2013, 07:54 PM
I have been shooting 9 mm revolvers for some years now and have never had a problem with any of them. My 547s have shot more accurately than my 10s, 13s and 65s. The Speed Sixes likewise have been more accurate than the Service Six while the 940 shoots about par with the 640. The 547s feel to have less recoil than the other K frames. No data to back this up, jsut a feeling. Got into 547s when I had access to cheap surplus ammo and wanted to shoot something other than semi autos.

PedalBiker
April 19, 2013, 08:22 PM
I'm interested in a 9mm revolver, I haven't been able to get my favorite 38sp ammo for a long, long time (135g Speer Gold Dot Short barrel), my second favorite (158g LSWCHP) has been more available.

An LCR in 9mm would be sweet as would a 6 shot GP-100 with a 3" barrel.

MK75
April 19, 2013, 10:15 PM
Because, there is 38 spl...

silvermane_1
April 23, 2013, 03:13 AM
i like boricua9mm arguments.

45_auto
April 23, 2013, 07:24 AM
if a situation calls for a .38 SPL revolver, how can the 9mm revolver be a bad choice?

Maybe because the 9mm requires moonclips and has a narrower range of bullet/weight/velocity options as compared to a .38/.357?

Loading up magazines isn't much fun for anyone either.

Can't remember the last time I loaded a revolver magazine for a .38/.357. Still remember loading moonclips for 9mm though.

You can have 9mm pretty much any way you want it short of a wadcutter.

Why would anyone want to give up the option of wadcutters? You don't like the option of cheap lead plinking ammo? Maybe that lets you justify jacketed 9mm prices?

On what trail head, or should I say planet?

Until the Sandy Hook shortage started, there were always more options in .38/.357 around here than in 9mm. Both been pretty equal since then, nothing at all of either one.

before this madness began you could buy factory 9mm ammo for much, much cheaper than .38SPL.

On what trailhead, or should I say planet? Never saw factory lead 9mm anywhere, but cheap factory lead .38 (wadcutters) was available all over the place.

35 Whelen
April 23, 2013, 08:16 AM
One thing I've never seen mentioned is the flexibility that the .38 Special has over the 9mm. Folks tend to regurgitate paper ballistics and price over and over and over.

By flexibility I mean the .38 can be loaded, and I suppose bought with bullet weights from 90 to 200 grs., but more importantly, the .38 can be and is more often than not loaded with SWC's, a luxury the 9mm simply doesn't enjoy. Someone in an earlier post showed a picture of a 158 gr. RN 9mm load. That's nice, but I don't think there's any argument to the fact that for hunting and defense a SWC has it all over a RN bullet.

35W

Pointshoot
April 23, 2013, 08:34 PM
I prefer wheel-guns for all sorts of reasons that most here already understand.

That said, if I'm going to shoot 9mm I go with the Glock 17. That and a spare mag pretty much ends my interest in a 9mm revolver.

boricua9mm
April 24, 2013, 07:21 AM
Maybe because the 9mm requires moonclips and has a narrower range of bullet/weight/velocity options as compared to a .38/.357?

You might want to try telling that to S&W and the many, many Model 547 owners. Oh wait, they don't use moonclips! Reading is fundamental. Therein you'd likely find that I never once compared the 9mm to the .357, but rather the 9mm to the .38, a comparison which drastically favors the 9mm.

Can't remember the last time I loaded a revolver magazine for a .38/.357. Still remember loading moonclips for 9mm though.

Where exactly did I say that revolvers use magazines? The point is that if you want to load quickly, you'll be loading a speedloading device or a magazine no matter which choice you make. I don't remember ever loading a moonclip; the 547 doesn't use em. If someone is going to complain about loading moonclips, they're the type to complain about loading magazines for a semi-auto 9mm. It must be dealt with or discarded as an argument.

Why would anyone want to give up the option of wadcutters? You don't like the option of cheap lead plinking ammo? Maybe that lets you justify jacketed 9mm prices?

When comparing .38 to 9mm, the only benefit of wadcutters is "Hey! Look at those clean holes!" The notion of "cheap wadcutters" in .38 or .357 is a myth, unless you are casting your own lead bullets for reloading. Factory 9mm FMJ has been cheaper than factory .38s for over two decades now.

Until the Sandy Hook shortage started, there were always more options in .38/.357 around here than in 9mm. Both been pretty equal since then, nothing at all of either one.

Again, my arguments are based on the concept that if a 9mm revolver is pointless, than a .38SPL revolver has even less utility. The 9mm can't be fairly compared to the .357MAG b/c the .357 will almost always outperform it. Comparing 9mm to .38s, the 9mm has the edge across the spectrum when it comes to cost and performance.


On what trailhead, or should I say planet? Never saw factory lead 9mm anywhere, but cheap factory lead .38 (wadcutters) was available all over the place.

I've never found factory lead 9mm anywhere either; there's no need for it when ammo is 12-20 cents/round. On the other hand I haven't seen any factory .38SPL in that price range in the past 15-20 years. We're talking FACTORY loads, right, not Bubba's "remanufactured" loads...

C0untZer0
October 30, 2013, 01:34 PM
I got word from Dan Brown at Czechpoint USA that the 3" Alfa Proj revolvers won't be coming in until the first week of April 2014.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=164520&stc=1&d=1337112969

alternety
October 30, 2013, 02:07 PM
The notice from the post above reminded me of this thread.

Has anyone else acquired a PitBull? Be interesting to see more impressions from users.

Mine had some issues out of the box, but Charter Arms was quick to take it back and clean it up a bit. I am guessing I got a fairly early production gun.

tommy.duncan
October 30, 2013, 02:31 PM
Charter Arms has revolvers in 9mm and 40s&w.
I know what you mean, I have a s&w 610 and I enjoy shooting it. I don't know why most pistol companies stopped production of rimless revolvers, they are a blast to shoot(no pun intended).

wally
October 30, 2013, 02:55 PM
I've both the Taurus 905 and Charter Arms Pitbull.

The moon clips make for fast reloads but are a PITA to unload (I know Dillon makes a tool for the 45ACP clips don't know if they'll work for the 9mm). But the Taurus suffers from severe ammo sensitivity with some brands having a high misfire rate (1 or 2 per cylinder). The Pitbull so far seems immune to this issue with the six or seven brands of factory ammo I've tried so far. Three of the widest available cheap brands give a lot of misfires in the Taurus -- Winchester USA, CCI Aluminum Blazer, and CCI Blazer Brass which really helps defeat the "cheap ammo" advantage.

Neither seem to like my 9mm reloads -- misfire city, I think its the Lee Factory crimp die, or the fact that reloaded handgun brass is generally a bit shorter than factory after resizing, maybe a combination of the two. I shoot literally 1000s of these per month in a wide variety of autoloaders witout issues, so I'm not really going to change anything to accommodate a pair of infrequently shot revolvers.

Both revolvers have extraction issues with some brands of ammo, especially the hotter loads -- I suspect this is because of the slight 9mm case taper, .45ACP works better as it has much lower maximum pressure and straight wall cases. This is why in the real world 9mm revolvers aren't as great an idea as they seem in theory.

C0untZer0
October 30, 2013, 06:29 PM
The moon clips make for fast reloads but are a PITA to unload (I know Dillon makes a tool for the 45ACP clips don't know if they'll work for the 9mm).
The Alfa Proj revolvers ship with a tool, they call it a loading tube:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=190613&stc=1&d=1383172135

TennJed
October 31, 2013, 01:23 AM
I got word from Dan Brown at Czechpoint USA that the 3" Alfa Proj revolvers won't be coming in until the first week of April 2014.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=164520&stc=1&d=1337112969

These guns interest me a lot

HiVel
October 31, 2013, 08:19 AM
The tool should be called an unloading tool -NO?

also the grips look cheap!

Interesting piece though.

RealGun
October 31, 2013, 12:30 PM
As the gun ownership numbers continue to get flooded by the recoil averse and those who won't dress to conceal, the price and availability of 9mm, including reloading components, will only get worse.

I don't see enough distinction to recommend manufacturers making the investment. They have already set aside models to increase output on bread and butter numbers.

C0untZer0
October 31, 2013, 01:34 PM
I would think that more "recoil averse and those who won't dress to conceal" purchases would help 32 ACP, but even if it did result in more 9mm firearms - I think that would end up driving the cost of 9mm ammo down, at least eventually.

I don't think the cost of Five-Seven ammo is because it is inherently more expensive to make, some of the price is from trying to tie the cost of tooling up for it, there is not a huge demand for it, that means shorter production runs and higher costs.

PaulKersey3
November 1, 2013, 04:35 AM
Didn't get to read all the posts here, so I'm not sure it was mentioned, but I believe several years ago Taurus briefly came out with a revolver they called the "Triad." It could chamber .357mag, .38spcl, .38 super and 9mm para. Not sure of the functionality, moon clips etc. I just remember reading about it, only to find out they were discontinued. If anyone has more info on the Taurus Triad, I'd like to know.

TRX
November 1, 2013, 05:43 AM
Back when the ".38 vs. 9mm" wars were somewhat meaningful, I was firmly on the .38 side. Recently I read a thread where a poster in another country was asking for input; he had the option of purchasing a new revolver in one of two configurations, .38 Special or 9mm.

For his situation, it was 9mm all the way. In his country .38 Special is rare and 9mm might be the most popular caliber. He already had a 9mm automatic, and he was in one of those countries where ammunition purchases were tightly controlled and recorded in his "firearm booklet." Also, nowadays there are more options for factory-loaded 9mm than in the old days, when "9mm" basically meant round nose, full metal jacket vs. a nice soft lead .38.

The revolver vs. automatic debate peters out when you start talking about .44 Magnum and up. The Wildey and Auto Mag are defunct, leaving the Desert Eagle in .44 Mag and .50AE. But the Eagle is physically very large, particularly the grip, and the price is even larger. You can still buy a .44 Magnum revolver that will fit in your pocket. And you can buy a big revolver chambered from .454 Casull to .500 S&W, and there's no automatic that chambers anything close. When you want big power, wheelguns rule.

HiVel
November 1, 2013, 09:05 AM
The simple answer for the question is that 9mm revolvers do not work . I had a Smith snubby in 9mm and it was a PITA....tapered 9mm cartridge is the culprit.

heyjoe
November 1, 2013, 01:16 PM
I have a smith and wesson model 940 that works fine

NMPOPS
November 1, 2013, 07:13 PM
The main reason I don't like them, and 45 acp revolvers for that matter, is reloading. You have to carry reloads in moon clips which are bulky. With a j frame 642 I can carry two speed strips easily, speed loaders and moon clips are just too bulky.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

shafter
November 2, 2013, 09:11 AM
I don't know why someone would want one. A 357 magnum can do much more at both ends of the spectrum with a much larger variety of ammo to use.

45_auto
November 2, 2013, 09:37 AM
I don't know why someone would want one. A 357 magnum can do much more at both ends of the spectrum with a much larger variety of ammo to use.

I don't know why anyone would NOT want one. They shoot the cheapest and most available centerfire pistol ammo out there. Every time I take my 9mm SP101 to the range at least two or three people offer to buy it at over double what I paid for it.

HexHead
November 2, 2013, 09:48 AM
Many of you that think this is a good idea have probably never owned a revolver that used moonclips. They are a real PITA, unless you're doing like they did in the trenches of WWI and just tossing them with the brass when reloading.

Queen_of_Thunder
November 2, 2013, 10:54 AM
If 9mm revolvers were more popular my hunt for one would not be as much fun.

RealGun
November 2, 2013, 12:13 PM
I don't know why anyone would NOT want one. They shoot the cheapest and most available centerfire pistol ammo out there.

Bought any 9mm ammo lately?

ArchAngelCD
November 2, 2013, 12:25 PM
I'm sorry I didn't read the 8 pages of answers but here's my take.

Why? Because there's no advantage over the 38/357 and more hassle.

C0untZer0
November 2, 2013, 12:50 PM
I just want one

C0untZer0
November 2, 2013, 12:56 PM
That Alfa Proj is built on their 357 magnum frame so I'm thinking that revolver should be able to handle those Underwood 147gr +P+ Gold Dots...

aka108
November 2, 2013, 06:29 PM
At one time I owned a good number of 9mm pistols. Luger, p38's and about 4 others. Sold all except for a Star M30. A few months ago I ran across a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible. Came with two cylinders. One for 9mm and the other for 357/38 Spec. Was really tickled to get it since I load for 9mm. The only difficulty I had to overcome was getting the cartridges to go far enough into the cyinder. All my reloads workd fine in the semi autos. Found I had to set the crimping die to where it really squeezes bullet into the case like king kong gone mad. Now everything is fine and I find the Blackhawk a nice firearm to spend some time with.

45_auto
November 2, 2013, 07:10 PM
Bought any 9mm ammo lately?

I haven't bought any centerfire pistol ammo since the 1980's. It all cost the same for me, about $.10 per round depending on the bullet I use.

However, I have friends that don't shoot as much, and they use factory ammo. So I've been keeping an eye out for them to see what's available for their purchase since Sandy Hook. The only thing reasonably priced and available locally is Tulammo 9mm at Wal-Mart for $10.87 per box of 50, which is about $.23 per round. 38 and 357 were higher than that BEFORE Sandy Hook, so I doubt if they'll be less if they ever become available around here again.

Even the online ammo finders such as Gunbot show plenty of 9mm available for around $.25 per round. Cheapest .38 is $.35, cheapest .357 is $.45 per round.

TestPilot
November 2, 2013, 08:25 PM
I guess because it has several hurdles in terms of demand.

First, like it or not, majority of the pistol shooters now choose self-loaders than revolvers. Walk into any range, and this will be evident.

Seond, out of the revolver shooters, who will be the customers of 9mm revolvers? Definitely not the 357 Magnum and up crowd. It's the 38 Special crowd.

Who shoots 38 Special? Of course, there are some exceptions, but generally from my observation it is either beginners, people who bought a revolver as their first gun, or revolver era cops who never transitioned to self-loaders.

The point is that shooters of 38 Special, the most likely ammo 9mm would substitute, are only a small segment of already minority revolver shooters, and they're generally not an enthusiastic bunch at that either.

How many of those people even know that the smaller 9mm cartridge is more powerful than 38 Special?

Among that small segment of people who knows that 9mm is more powerful, how many of them knows it is even possible to use 9mm in a revolver?

Among that small segment of people who knows it is possible, how many of them are willing to go through the trouble of using clips and deviate from standard revolver usage?

Of course, there are more enthusiastic shooters who shoot 38 Special for their M642 type snub nose revolvers. But, those recoil hard as it is, and 9mm is even more powerful than 38 Special +P. It can make recoil even harder. For what performance gain? From a less than 2 inch barrel and a cylinder gap that does not exist in a self-loader, how much gain for the trouble?

TennJed
November 3, 2013, 09:26 PM
I know most of the talk in this thread revolve around DA guns, but the Ruger Blackhawk in 357/9mm is one heck of a fun gun (as is the one in 45colt/45acp)

No moon clips. No hassle. lots of fun.

Hondo 60
November 4, 2013, 01:10 AM
who will be the customers of 9mm revolvers?

ME! ;)

I HATE losing brass, so a 9mm revolver is way cool IMHO.
And I think as we age, bending over to pick up all that brass ... well you get the picture.

It also works as a BUG (backup gun) for those who carry a 9MM semi-auto.
(2 guns, same ammo)

GaryP
November 4, 2013, 04:34 AM
I would think most would go with the .357 MAG rather than the 9mm in a revolver due to the ballistics involved and the hassle involved with rimless cartridges in a revolver.

:evil:

HiVel
November 4, 2013, 07:32 AM
The backup deal makes the most sense if I wanted to go 9mm all the way . Had a bud who carried a HK 9mm pistol , then he had a 9mm MP 5 full auto for his truck gun and carried a 942 S&W snub in an ankle holster for his back up piece. 9mm for everything.
He liked that set up a lot.

tekarra
November 4, 2013, 05:23 PM
Carried a 942 as a back up? Was it a 642 conversion? My understanding is that S&W made only one 942 for a well known gun writer.

weblance
November 4, 2013, 07:20 PM
I started this thread over a year ago. My Taurus 905 has been perfect, through almost 2,000 rounds now. The comments about moon clips dont add up for me. I dont see them being a problem at all. The argument about there being no advantage over 38/357, the cost of factory ammo is the advantage. When things settle down, and the costs return to normal, there is a big difference in cost compared 38 Special.

I would like to see sales numbers for the world, and compare that to the USA. It would be interesting to see how popular the 9mm revolver really is.

wally
November 4, 2013, 08:30 PM
I started this thread over a year ago. My Taurus 905 has been perfect, through almost 2,000 rounds now.

What brand(s) of ammo are you using?

My 905 has a very high misfire rate with some brands -- Win USA "white box", CCI Blazer Brass, & CCI Blazer aluminum in particular -- these are three of the most widely available "inexpensive" 9mm ammo.

My 905 seems to like S&B 115gr FMJ, PMC 115gr FMJ, Federal American Eagle 147gr FMJ, & Remington UMC 147gr FMJ.

My Pitbull has had no issues with any of these so far.

Both have difficult ejection issues with hotter loads or steel cased ammo.

I know I'm not the only one to report ignition issues with the 905. Like with anything, if you manage to get a good one, be happy but don't extrapolate too wildly.

weblance
November 5, 2013, 08:08 PM
Almost all of the ammo through mine has been Federal FMJ and some Hornady Critical Defense, and Hornady Custom. I have never had a light strike, and ignition has been 100%. Extraction can be sticky at times, but only after maybe 70-80 rounds without a cylinder brushing. I have been very pleased with my 9mm revolver.

wally
November 6, 2013, 12:19 PM
Almost all of the ammo through mine has been Federal FMJ and some Hornady Critical Defense, and Hornady Custom. I have never had a light strike, and ignition has been 100%.

Federal has been fine in mine, as has Winchester SXT. Try some CCI Blazer brass next time out, I'm curious. My Blazer stash is five or six years old (mostly I shoot reloads in autoloaders), things could be better or worse now but I was averaging two misfires in five shots with it last time I had the 905 out (when I was comparing it to my new Pitbull).

HiVel
November 7, 2013, 07:45 AM
how about a 940?? 9mm, 2" snub in SS.
I HAD ONE WHATEVER THE NUMBER WAS/IS-oops

Brian Williams
November 7, 2013, 07:46 AM
ArchAngelCD

Why? Because there's no advantage over the 38/357 and more hassle.
I take it you have never shot a 9mm revolver. My 642 conversion to 942 shoots better than 38 but not quite 357. It handles well and shoots straight. I can shoot 15 rounds quite quickly. I use the ruger moonclips they hold the rounds tighter than the S&W.

rbernie
November 7, 2013, 07:57 AM
There just aren't enough of them out there to get any interest in them. I had a 942; it was OK, but I'd have preferred a 9x19 649 or 638 or 637/37 in J frame and a 9x19 15/10/12.

Limiting the offering to just a small special run on the DAO J frame didn't really give the combination of 9x19 and revolver much of a chance....

My understanding is that S&W made only one 942 for a well known gun writer.Dunno about that - I bought one locally from sumdood and AFAIK there was nothing particularly special about his possessing it. It was just a short run item.

C0untZer0
November 7, 2013, 12:51 PM
Limiting the offering to just a small special run on the DAO J frame didn't really give the combination of 9x19 and revolver much of a chance....

I agree. I wanted a 9mm revolver but I really wanted adjustable sights, that's why I passed on the Ruger Speed Six and SP 101, at the time I thought that someone would make a model with adjustable sights - I didn't know 9mm revolvers were going to become so scarce.

And when I talked to Dan Brown at Czechpoint U.S.A, I asked him if there were any way to order the 6" Alfa Proj 9261 or the 4" 9241 models and he said no - he was only importing the 3" 9231 model.

I'd love to have the 6" barrel version, but Dan obviously doesn't think he could sell enough to make it worthwhile.

Here is a bit of a cornball video on it, I think most of us can guess what he is saying - maybe use this video to begin learning Czech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlGD1nNzyEU

jerryd
November 7, 2013, 08:31 PM
Picked up a Charter arms Pitbull nice little toy! Put 100rds thru it last week, seemed to like Ranger 147 gr the best. Used WW 115gr, 124gr reloads and 147 gr. No problems so far, next will be the Bulldog mine was stolen about 30yrs ago, now they make them in stainless, not bad for the price and they are only 8 miles from me.:):)

C0untZer0
November 7, 2013, 10:18 PM
Congratulations ^ you got one of the 4 PITBULLs Charter Arms made this year... :D

kvtcomdo
December 22, 2013, 05:43 PM
Me too.

The only real issue is that some 9mm ammo will not eject well even with the moon clips.

I experimented until I found a factory load which would reliably eject (Winchester 115gr Silvertips).

Nice little revolver which I enjoy shooting and is plenty accurate.

Allows for versatility.

Don't know what all the Hub-Ub is about.

9mmepiphany
December 25, 2013, 12:30 AM
Well, I just came across a YouTube video of the new, for 2014, S&W 929...compensated eight-shot 9mm on built on an N-frame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBW3IJdU4bQ

Nite Ryder
December 25, 2013, 01:06 AM
weblance:I find it hard to understand how inserting cartridges in moon clips is any different than inserting cartridges in magazines... Granted, a standard style revolver requires nothing but dropping the cartridge in the chambers of the cylinder, but I think the savings of $5 per 50 is worth the inconvience. I guess those of us with rimless revolvers should enjoy our little "secret" and just be happy.




Possibly you find it hard to understand because you don't have one, or haven't used one very much. 9MM in revolvers don't sell, if they did more would be built. I have a Ruger BH that fires 9 MM, I never ever use that cylinder, I prefer 39 special over 9 MM. If I'm going to use moonclips, I want something that I consider worthwhile. I have over 30 moonclips for my S&W 610, they are faster than using a speed loader but carrying around four loaded moonclips is troublesome unless I'm in a hunting situation. Where I live I can buy 45 ACP as cheap as I can buy 9MM, and I would much rather spend my money on 45's. I do have a 1911 that shoots 9MM, but again, I don't shoot that much 9 MM when something else is available.

Willie Sutton
December 25, 2013, 07:58 AM
Why?

For the same reason there aren't too many .38 Special autoloaders.... (and yes, there are some).



Willie

.

Rarebird
January 12, 2014, 11:35 PM
Almost all of the ammo through mine has been Federal FMJ and some Hornady Critical Defense, and Hornady Custom. I have never had a light strike, and ignition has been 100%. Extraction can be sticky at times, but only after maybe 70-80 rounds without a cylinder brushing. I have been very pleased with my 9mm revolver.

I read most of the comments on this thread initiated over a year ago and must say, I agree with Weblance's premise entirely. It seemed odd why production had ceased on the venerable little SP101 in 9mm. From what I gather (and contrary to the conjecture on this thread), production had commenced in the first place to fulfill overseas demand for ammo commonality with semi-auto pistols and selling stateside was merely a secondary consideration from Ruger and had ceased when these contracts overseas were fulfilled and not necessarily because of any lackluster domestic sales. A lot of guns would have met their production demise if sluggish U.S. sales were the sole consideration.

One likely reason to kill further production of revolvers in 9mm is that continued production would appeal to a customer base who would otherwise purchase a traditional caliber revolver, such as .38 special, etc., thus cutting into ammo sales of those other calibers. Gun manufacturers are beholden to ammo manufactures to some extent or, at the very least, don't want to rile them.

About moon clips: Moon clips are quite convenient, not inconvenient. In Ruger's SP101 9mm revolver moon clips were provided for convenience but aren't even necessary to shoot this model due to rim shoulders inside the cylinder wall to ensure proper head spacing and retention of the 9mm round.

If anything, moon clips are more convenient than the speed loaders that are used with traditional revolver calibers, such as .38 special/,357 magnum because the moon clips stay with the shells in the 9mm caliber and you simply close the cylinder with the rounds in place - as opposed to the need to turn some knob to release the rounds, as is necessary with traditional revolver caliber speed loaders... oh, then you gotta deal with this empty speed loader in your hand before shooting. Therefore, the moon clip is more convenient (and speedier) than actual speed loaders, but I repeat myself lol!

Bottom line: Weblance presents meritorious points here. The practicality of a 9mm revolver are under appreciated and not even understood by many.

"We're all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~~
"Never pass up a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut." Sir Winston Churchhill

Rarebird
January 13, 2014, 12:18 AM
duplicate/disregard

TPD211
January 13, 2014, 09:57 AM
I have the 9mm revolvers big brother, a 40 S&W revolver from Charter Arms. I ordered directly from the factory and requested a 5" barrel. It is nice for its price range. I carry it when I hog hunt with my 40 caliber Glock carbine.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/11390268774_61490e006f_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5543/10844915284_1b5c64eabd_b.jpg

C0untZer0
January 13, 2014, 01:03 PM
I am wondering if people can contact the factory to get 5" barreled 9mm PITBULLS

MagnumDweeb
January 13, 2014, 03:13 PM
TPD211, you have my thanks. I had forever sworn off Charter Arms revolvers. Now that there is a spector of a chance I can order one to spec I may go get one for the fiancee who has been crushing on the Lavender Lady for some reason (thinks it's pretty, wants a pretty guns to go with her XDs .45). Seriously if I can order a 9mm Pit Bull done up Lavender Lady Style with a 5" barrel I'll drop about $450 for it. Then I'd be done hearing about how she wants a pretty gun (she seriously suggested buying two Taurus PT92s, one blued, one stainless, and then switching the uppers on the receivers, NFH).

For myself, I want a Model 15 style 9mm with moon clips. Give me that and I'll spend $450 and be happy. There's the catch though, no one will do it for $450 unfortunately.

Rarebird
January 14, 2014, 12:26 AM
Wow! . . .awesome carbine conversion. Thanks for pics. This is a Mechtech unit I presume?

Biohazard1993
January 17, 2014, 04:05 PM
I think that part of the answer to the original question is in the OP's original post. Very few companies have made them and they are now in fact discontinued. I feel taurus and charter both make good money on them simply because those few who do want a rimless revolver will buy theirs because they are the only ones still in production. A 40 s&w model i might be interested in and bite someday but I do not like the idea of a stiff push-in method of loading an already slower than auto revolver (but I still do love all my revolvers) :D and I never really warmed up to moon clip method. 9mm is a nogo for me personally because I can use the many 357 magnum revolvers I already have to get similar responses. 357 mag surpasses the 9mm that can be easily shot through a pistol without being +p+ factory rated (good luck finding one readily available) and 38 special can be as good as standard 9mm dependant on the round made/aquired. I think it would be neet to have a rimless revolver for a conversation piece or a "look at the cool thing ive got buddy" gun but I have always found another gun to fill the void. I think it would be a blast to shoot one (literally) :neener: and maybe someday I will buy one in 40 s&w for that reason but for now it just doesn't do it for me enough. I am glad however the OP loves the gun and hope he has nothing but good luck and good times with it.

I honostly do not know about prices in other states or counties around the country but i do know that I can buy 38 special just as cheep if not cheeper than 9mm because of the whole gun scare thing that happened. Wasn't too happy when I went to fuel my Tanfoglio Witness Combat 9 though let me tell you. :fire: :cuss:

Biohazard1993
January 17, 2014, 04:53 PM
Ok... well I have my answers now. Some people will never embrace a new idea, and are so narrow minded that they will push against anything they dont understand with every ounce of energy they have. If you guys want to keep shooting your .38s and spending your money on a weaker, more expensive round, simply because most people are shooting a .38 revolver, then thats just fine with me. I feel I have found something that is really worth telling people about, but not many are listening. I will continue to shoot my revolver, enjoying its cheap ammo, getting more snub nose practice, and smiling all the while.
And that is why 38 special is only a range round for me for the most part... the point of a revolver to the revolver crowd is to have a reliable piece of steel with an enormous amount of powder behind a bullet like a 357 magnum. Yes, yes, yes, the 9mm is better than the 38 special; the 357 magnum is where it is at and is the point people are trying to make. There are so many small revolvers and every other size chambered in 357 magnum that unless the oz of weight are really counting against you, you get it chambered in 357 not 38 special because you can use both. Which since the 9mm is chambered in the same frame as the 357 most of the time weight does not seem to be an issue here, so the 357 magnum with it bonusly (I made that word up) shooting 38 special it is because 357 is greater than 9mm in these revolvers. When you ask someone why they carry a revolver the answer is usually "I like having a reliable gun chambered in a nasty round rarley usable/found in an auto on me" (357 magnum, 44 magnum, ect) .To most people carrying the 9mm in a revolver is redundant, the whole point of me and most people toting around the extra weight of a revolver is the fact that when it is loaded to kill in our defense it has something much more nastier than my 9mm in a controllable, reliable, sexy package. As a range gun yes you do have an ammunition advantage in price but when using it as a defensive tool the reason we prefer 357 magnum isnt for the price. I never bought a defensive gun because I thought to myself that the amunition is cheap because then I guess I would be carrying a .22lr all year round. Tit for tat when comparing the prices of defense amunition of all cartridges, price savings is not the first thing most think of no matter what bullet is being bought, its expensive no matter the bullet... so those opting for the 357 magnum think the extra $ is worth the extra takedown power. Same principle as 40,10mm,45,357 sig. ect over 9mm, just in revolvers the caliber to size ratio limits you to 357 over the 9mm because going any bigger would usually warrent a dirty harry gun... usually.

alternety
January 17, 2014, 10:55 PM
There are people that have small relatively weak hands. Possibly hundreds when you take in the population of the country. They may be able use a revolver but not able to rack OR CLEAR an auto.

The same small demographic, may also not be be good at controlling high recoil handguns. A 9mm gets into the general killing capability range as a .357, but is not as bad for recoil. The round performs better than the other candidate, the .38. I have a Pitbull for my wife. She fits into this odd demographic. The 9mm Pitbull has an annoying level of recoil; but controllable.

I carry 9mm. Thus, she can use my ammo. I need to carry, buy or reload only one caliber. In a self defense situation, I believe most (or certainly a whole bunch) citizens carry only what is in the gun. In dire and probably very unusual circumstances I can give her a spare mag for reload, or peel a few out of my mag. I really don't see this to be a major consideration in buying the 9mm revolver. She has 6 shots. I only have 8. But we have them with us and can use them.

I can conceal a spare mag or loose rounds much better than a revolver that needs either a bendable loader or the more robust quick loader. It significantly lessens the comments about me being glad to see someone.

Lastly, if there is a market, why are some so hostile (in my perception) toward people who want the gun. No skin off your nose if I want a 9mm revolver.

benzy2
January 27, 2014, 12:14 AM
When considering all of the data/accounts of different pistol bullets stopping a human, I can't say I'm swayed to find the 357Mag as a better man stopper. Most information (not just shooting into jello or reading velocity and energy stats on a box) seems to point to all pistol rounds being sub-par and most quality JHP nearly equal. That said, I'm satisfied with the performance of a quality 9mm. I've got a handful of different 9mm auto loaders. I buy lots of 9mm to feed them. I also reload as well, though a bit less in 9mm than 45ACP due to factory loaded prices. The press is a Hornady LnL AP. Not the worst press in the world to setup, but also not a 2 minute job to do a caliber swap. I'd rather buy/load 9mm that worked in all platforms than have to buy specific dies/shell plates/powder meter inserts/cases/bullets to load 357/38 or have to hunt down both types of factory loaded ammo. The vast bulk of my shooting is range time casual shooting. As such, ammo cost (in terms of money and time spent reloading or searching for ammo) is a very high priority.

In my area, 9mm can be bought by the case at $15/50 in multiple places and in near endless (for my budget) quantities. 38 range loads are at $20/50 and are sporadic to find in stock. 357 range loads are pushing $25/50.

This is the reason I went with a S&W 625 in 45ACP. I load ammo for my 1911s and toss it in moon clips when I plan on shooting the 625. No need to stock both 44 and 45. It makes things simple when budgeting for ammo stocking, it is one less caliber conversion for the press, and I can buy twice as many components at a time and typically get a better price buying in more bulk.

I like 38/357 better in a revolver for a few reasons, but with the way things are today, any new purchases will be in a common semi-auto caliber to minimize ammo inventory issues. I no longer have the time to spend tweaking a press to devote to endless calibers and I don't shoot enough to justify a dedicated progressive press for each chambering.

As for moon clips. They are a pain to load by hand. Luckily, tools are cheap and/or easy to make to speed up both loading and unloading the clip. A piece of PVC pipe with its ID closely fitting the OD of your cartridge takes a minute with a Dremel and a cutoff wheel to have a case remover. Two pieces of 1/4" thick by 1"-1.5" wide steel/aluminum bolted together will lever the rounds into the clip effortlessly. Moonclips are fast and easy to use. Plus, for the reloader, everything is hooked together when you're rounds are fired. You don't lose a few cases here and a few there. No lost speed loaders. The only issue I see is that in a carry gun, you may bend the clip with pocket carry, but I'd hate to try to reload with a pocket carried moon clip anyways.

Biohazard1993
January 27, 2014, 12:40 PM
I can't say I'm swayed to find the 357Mag as a better man stopper.

Then you have never seen something other than a target get shot by one. Lets say an animal since I doubt most people have seen a body been shot by these rounds in person. A deer (or similar) shot with a 357 magnum is miles beyond a 9mm; no comparison as not argued before. When using similar loads from the same brand ie using american eagle target 9mm and american eagle target 357 magnum with close to same bullet weight and barrel length so no bias between loads occurs, it is common knowledge and fact that the 357 magnum does more penetrational damage and widespread micro damage. The 357 is a 9mm lead with more velocity, that statement would be like saying the 10mm is not more of a stopper than a 40 s&w. The 357 is sometimes too efficient of a round with penetration which brings to light why most leo are not authorized to use them... they can go straight through the target with the right load/bullet combo; which obviously is not good in crowded places. The 357 mag can also reak major havoc on an engine block, 9mm not so much.

rbernie
January 27, 2014, 12:56 PM
Well, I just bought a 357/38/9x19 revolver - choice is a good thing! :)

http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/models.html

Biohazard1993
January 27, 2014, 01:14 PM
Well, I just bought a 357/38/9x19 revolver - choice is a good thing! :)

http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/models.html
Darn right. Now that is a good option. A double action that is that easily converted is now needed.

BCRider
January 27, 2014, 01:33 PM
.....I'd hate to try to reload with a pocket carried moon clip anyways.

I'd suggest that for a carry situation that half moon clips is the way to go. The half round clumps of three rounds would fit into the pocket far better. Or if set up for storage in a belt they would fit into a belt with cartridge loops spaced at the right distance to hold the two outer cartridges and the middle one is suspended by the clip. Either way it would provide a compact and low profile option over full moon clips or speed loaders.

C0untZer0
January 27, 2014, 02:01 PM
I'm a little bit of a purist in that I want a 9mm length cylinder, not a cylinder designed to hold the 357 magnum cartridge.

I don't know the length of the cylinders on the Charter Arms PITBULLs, not sure if the frame was especially made for the 40 S&W cartridge or 9mm cartridge or not.

Most revolver makers use a 357 frame for their 9mm revolvers, and most again use a 357 sized cylinder - over all dimensions not chamber dimensions.

The AlfaProj line of revolvers use 357 frames but have 2 choices as far as the cylinder. You can have 357 sized cylinders and the subsequent bullet jump, or they make models where the barrel comes back into the cylinder frame against a cylinder that's about 1.17" long

oneounceload
January 27, 2014, 02:17 PM
But with that short cylinder, you now have to guard against flame cutting your thumb

Strahley
January 27, 2014, 02:48 PM
Had one once. It was a good shooter, but it didn't make much sense. Moon clips are annoying. I wasn't saving any money with 9mm over .38 for target/plinking, and if the guns are the exact same size, why would I choose hopped up 9mm over .357 for self defense?

I think the novelty idea is cool, but outside of that I don't see much point in a revolver shooting typical auto-loader calibers. You can load .38s to be very soft shooting, so that defeats the purpose of a .380 or 9mm revolver if you were looking for something easier to manage

However, I do like revolvers that can shoot auto-loader calibers along with the calibers they are supposed to shoot (i.e. a S&W Governor that can shoot .410, .45 LC, and .45 ACP). I wouldn't buy one JUST to shoot .45 ACP, but it's nice that it can be done and would certainly be a selling point if I were in the market for a vehicle/snake gun

benzy2
January 27, 2014, 08:04 PM
Then you have never seen something other than a target get shot by one. Lets say an animal since I doubt most people have seen a body been shot by these rounds in person. I have not seen first hand effects of what any bullet does to the human body, so you are correct on that point. I'm not concerned about what it does in a deer as I'm no deer hunter. In all the data I've seen relating to persons shot with a firearm, there wasn't a statistical difference in the effectiveness or number of rounds required between any of today's major pistol rounds. None have a temporary cavity significant enough to be meaningful and the permanent wound cavity as well as penetration of quality JHP all run about the same, or in some cases excessive penetration. I won't try to argue that the .357 is equal on paper, just that I've never seen a study of actual GSW data that shows it to be a more effective fight ender.

Biohazard1993
January 27, 2014, 10:30 PM
The 357 isnt the same on paper if your talking stats. It is superior to a 9mm. It is right on the packages, lists, or a persons chrono if you don't believe the companies. As far as that goes look at it like this, an object moving faster than the last is going to be more dangerous, many of us can attest to that with punches, the faster the punch the more dangers. If your talking hole in a paper then yeah it is the same but so would .380 auto (9mm kurz), 9mm makarov (9x18), and 38 special ect because of the use of the same diameter bullet. But I agree with you that defensivly paper holes mean nothing. So as far as cavity/damage goes you can defenatly tell a 9mm wound from a 357 be it human, deer, pig whatever. The cavity is larger and as stated before does more outward lasceration damage (un-patchable in most cases). Although I do admit the flat nose bullet that some 357 magnums offer does help in the cavity opening. Slightly getting off topic of the pistols but similar case, the damage/cavity factor is one reason many people hunt with 16" 357 magnums or pistols even and not with 16" 9mm let alone a pistol. As stated before that is the advantage over a 9mm pistol, the powerhouse 357 magnum. I have a 9mm and love it, mine is a full size combat and that is what I use it for (17 rounds of fury) but when I feel like I need to carry something that I know will drop a "bad guy" who is harming me or another whith a shot center mass, I grab my 357 on my way out.

aka108
January 27, 2014, 10:46 PM
I run 45ACP and 9mm thru several revolvers. I have loaded these 2 rounds for a long time and did not want to get new dies and have start loading something new. The revolvers in these two sizes are strictly recreational guns I enjoy shooting.

Eb1
January 27, 2014, 11:09 PM
Revolvers are great for hand loaders. You do not have to chase brass.
I have seen what a 124 gr Fed HST 9mm from a four inch autoloader does to a person from twelve feet.
Wasn't pretty, not that you would think it would be, and did what it was designed to do. May I never see that again.

35 Whelen
January 27, 2014, 11:25 PM
Dearest Moderator,
With kindest regards to this post, I feel compelled to point out the following:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/anim_horse_zps1510e05b.gif (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/anim_horse_zps1510e05b.gif.html)

Sincerely,
35 Whelen

Hometeached1
January 28, 2014, 10:44 AM
Dearest Moderator,
With kindest regards to this post, I feel compelled to point out the following:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/anim_horse_zps1510e05b.gif (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/anim_horse_zps1510e05b.gif.html)

Sincerely,
35 Whelen
Yes! Kind of funny though.

C0untZer0
January 28, 2014, 10:52 AM
I like this thread.

But I'm one of those people who has a fascination with 9mm revolvers...

This thread just sort of hangs around and every so often someone will purchase a Taurus 905 or pickup a Charter Arms PITBULL in 9mm and they'll come here and post.

CzechPoint USA is going to get the AlfaProj 9231 in stock in a few months and I'm planning to buy it. :)

Hometeached1
January 28, 2014, 11:01 AM
CzechPoint USA is going to get the AlfaProj 9231 in stock in a few months and I'm planning to buy it.

Thanks, something else to add to the "need" list.:evil:

madFive
January 28, 2014, 12:23 PM
Why aren't 9mm revolvers more common?

Same reason 357-Mag auto's aren't common. Because the 9x19-Para round is made to feed from a magazine into an auto/semi. There are better rounds for firing from a revolver. No need to re-invent the wheel for most people.

SFsc616171
January 28, 2014, 12:54 PM
I had a Taurus Model 905CIA, first generation. It shot fine. After one box of ammo on the range, the web of this ol' geezer's hand was a-gittin' a might sore, with gloves.

Came one night, in the wee hours, when a bangin' on my door woke me up. (Shades of Ayoob - 'Don't answer the door!') I grabbed the 905, and was puttin' a moonclip in, when a few of the cartridges fell off! So, I grabbed my kukri, instead, and waited. The bangin' stopped.

My dear friend asked me 'about my little pistol', so it is now their's, moonclips and all.

Now, it is single-action pistols, and service-style revolvers, only.

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