Rat shot/Snake shot reloads


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Keeperfaith
September 22, 2012, 02:18 AM
Does anyone reload rat/snake shot in .38 special??

if so, how do you do it?

I had a rattle snake in the backyard a few weeks ago and I cannot find any rat shot online or locally...

Thanks

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ArchAngelCD
September 22, 2012, 02:21 AM
There are plenty of ways to make snakeshot/ratshot .38 Special loads. I do it the easy way and use Speer shotshell caplets. I fill them full of #9 shot, load them over 5.0gr W231 to an OAL of 1.500" They work very well in all my 38/357 revolvers, even the J frames.

Look Here: (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/313962/speer-empty-shot-capsules-38-special-box-of-50)

.

Certaindeaf
September 22, 2012, 02:42 AM
Yep, the Speer capsules are the bomb. I only used them in .44 with #6 for birds though.. good close-up medicine.

1SOW
September 22, 2012, 02:50 AM
I think in any pistol, you need the sabots. Loose shot just scatters to the wind.

ArchAngelCD
September 22, 2012, 03:12 AM
I think in any pistol, you need the sabots. Loose shot just scatters to the wind.
Snakeshot is meant for up-close-and-personal work. Within 6 feet the wind will do nothing to #9 shot. It will work well up close with #12 shot too.

Water-Man
September 22, 2012, 03:24 AM
You can find some at SGAmmo.com.

cfullgraf
September 22, 2012, 09:51 AM
Yep, just use the Speer shot capsules.

Larger shot load, more effective and easier to create than loading shot on top of the powder charge.

I made some 45 Colt shot shells before Speer sold their 45 shot shell capsules. The shot capsules are so much better to use.

Walkalong
September 22, 2012, 10:01 AM
You can cut cardboard "wads" to put over the powder, fill the rest of the case with shot, cut a plastic disc to put on top of the shot, and then crimp over the plastic disc, but the Speer capsules work great, and are real easy.

Carl N. Brown
September 22, 2012, 10:05 AM
I have loaded 38 Spl shot loads both with cardboard wads (punched from the back cardboards for legal pads, three over the powder, shot, one over the shot, crimp the mouth of the case heavily) and with the Speer shot capsules. Both work well on targets and soupcans at close encounter ranges. It is much easier to clean the barrel after using the Speer shot capsules.

TonyT
September 22, 2012, 10:36 AM
Many years ago before the advent of the Speer shot capsules I used a Lyman gas check over the powder (base side down) and another over the shot (base side up). It's been so long ago that I do not remeber the powder charge but I amsure that I used Bullseye powder.

Certaindeaf
September 22, 2012, 11:22 AM
^
These days it's surprising how expensive gas checks are.

Walkalong
September 22, 2012, 02:52 PM
When gas checks were dirt cheap that was a common practice. Those days are gone. Cheap that is, it would still work.

ljnowell
September 22, 2012, 03:01 PM
I have an old deck of UNO cards that I use for an over powder and over shot disc. I use an old case that I sharpened the edges of with a knife to cut them out. In a 357 I use 5gr of AA#2 and over powder disc and fill the case with #9 then an over shot disc and roll crimp. They work pretty darned good.

Salmoneye
September 22, 2012, 06:14 PM
I cut over powder and over shot cards from old Styrofoam takeout boxes with a belled, sharpened (chamferred) case...

Over the shot I do not crimp, but smear the edge of the card with 'school glue' and wait for it to harden...I know a guy that uses a small hot-glue gun for the over shot card sealing...

As to the expense of gas checks, there is a guy on eBay that sells aluminum checks dirt cheap...

I have patterned these at 20 feet, and have killed rats at 15' with .357 mag 100gr loads of #8 shot...

bogon48
September 22, 2012, 09:29 PM
Like the other folk above, I've used the Speer capsules. I used #8 shot and Bullseye. My tool of choice was an old S&W Model 586. Sorry, but I don't have the load data anymore.

Since I was dealing with copperheads, which are not very aggressive, I ultimately switched over to a well-used, long-handled shovel. Of the 13 I killed in and around my home, I only shot three, and those were at a distance of about eight feet. A shovel would require more care with big snakes, like the larger diamondback rattlers, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it on the smaller ones. A quick stab will pin the head and decapitate them.

Captcurt
September 22, 2012, 09:45 PM
I think in any pistol, you need the sabots. Loose shot just scatters to the wind.
Exactly. I loaded some 38's years ago using gas checks as top and bottom wads to hold the shot. Didn't work very well. I could have better results throwing the shot.

rcmodel
September 22, 2012, 10:38 PM
CCI Shot-Caps are the only way to fly in this day & age.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/empty_shot_capsules.aspx

(If you can find some for sale!)

In my experience, very small shot works on snakes much better then larger shot.

A swarm of #9, or even better, #12 shot seems to disrupt a snakes nervous system and leaves them DRT without a twitch or wiggle.

Bigger shot like #6 or #8 will eventually kill them for sure, but not as instantly as #12.

rc

oneounceload
September 22, 2012, 11:11 PM
Just buy the Speer capsules - they are cheap enough and easy enough, my kid loaded them when he was 6

GP100man
September 23, 2012, 12:34 AM
Do a search for "snake shot" several threads on the subject !

this 1 is a good 1

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570742&highlight=snake+shot

1SOW
September 23, 2012, 02:19 AM
Just buy the Speer capsules - they are cheap enough and easy enough, my kid loaded them when he was 6

This is what I was referring to when I said use a sabot. It needs to be contained untill it leaves the bbl.

I've made some using #9 shot in a case with a wad, and that didn't work well at all. It sprayed like an umbrella opening.
JMO

4895
September 23, 2012, 02:30 AM
I use Speer shotshell capsules from midwayusa.com or lgs.

Also, you can load (3) #1 buck shot pellets in a 38 special shot shell capsule and use the same load data supplied in the box of capsules. They make a nasty ragged hole in a water bottle from 10 feet away. I just buy a box of #1 12 gauge buckshot loads and cut the shot out of the shell to hand load into a capsule. Works great. I use 000 buck shot for .44 mag/spl.

You can also mix and match buck shot and 7.5 shot or whatever you have. Same thing there, instead of buying a bag of shot just buy a box of shells and cut them open. Saves a lot of money for making only a few rounds.

I use 231 powder for them with no problems. Practice your crimp tho, too much will crack the casing and spill shot possibly causing your revolver to jam.

**If your firearm has a magna-port or any kind of porting, you may spray bb's everywhere including your direction.**

ArchAngelCD
September 23, 2012, 03:23 AM
I agree it's easy to crimp too much and crack the capsule. I bought a used .38 Special taper crimp die I now use for making those shotshells up. It works very well with plated bullets too.

cfullgraf
September 23, 2012, 09:31 AM
**If your firearm has a magna-port or any kind of porting, you may spray bb's everywhere including your direction.**

That would get your attention.:)

With normally resized cases, the neck tension with the shot capsules is pretty good. So, all you really need to do is removed the mouth belling via a taper crimp.

A roll crimp die can be used but should be reset so as to not apply too much crimp.

Like RC said, smaller shot works better than larger. The pattern opens up to much to fast to be effective at more than short ranges. So lots of small shot hits does a better job than a few big ones.

Off topic a bit, I saw a TV review of the Taurus Judge where they were shooting skeet with it. The Taurus rep was breaking a few targets with the revolver.

Salmoneye
September 23, 2012, 10:18 AM
This is what I was referring to when I said use a sabot. It needs to be contained untill it leaves the bbl.

The Speer capsules are designed to shatter on the rifling, and do not 'contain' anything once they exit the forcing cone...

Speer also cautions against using their capsules with ported barrels:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/empty_shot_capsules.aspx

Gun Geezer
September 23, 2012, 11:32 AM
We loaded it powder, card board wad cut from cerial boxes, shot, and then 1/8" of Elemrs glue up to the roll crimp. We used Green Dot powder. Keep the velocity down or the pellets spray real bad even at only 6 feet!

But I think the shot capsules are easier and I never shot enough of them to make cost an issue.

fireflyfather
September 23, 2012, 01:05 PM
One thing to be careful of witth he speer shot capsules: If you crimp them too heavily, you can crack them. I've had rounds that cracked only enough that they were ugly. I had one though, that all but disintegrated in my die...

That said, you can load more shot in the capsules, since you have more overall length/volume to work with.

I load mine with red dot.

Salmoneye
September 23, 2012, 01:35 PM
That said, you can load more shot in the capsules, since you have more overall length/volume to work with.

I load mine with red dot.

I also use Red Dot...

In my .357 shotshells, I weigh 105gr of shot, and in my .44mag I get 150gr of shot...

The CCI factory shotshells use 100gr loads in the capsules in the .38/.357, and they put 140gr in the .44spcl/.44mag:

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/pestcontrol_specialty.aspx

James2
September 23, 2012, 01:56 PM
I never saw the need for "Snake Shot" in a handgun. It is easy enough to shoot a snake's head off at 6 feet with a solid bullet, if your intent is to kill a snake. If you don't have that confidence, and it is really important to kill the snake, just grab the 12 ga. In most cases, for self preservation, it is enough to just back away. Yes, occasionally someone will surprise a snake at close range and get bitten, but it is rare. If that were to happen, I doubt we would have much chance to draw and shoot it anyway in time to prevent getting hit. Around here the only dangerous snake is a rattler. Every time I have seen one, they are more intent on beating a retreat than fighting. Only if an attempt is made to get in its way or harass it, has it coiled up ready to strike.

At one time I worked at a fish farm. The garter snakes would eat our little fish. Yes, I carried a Ruger Single Six, and Yes, I killed many a snake, usually as they swam away from me on the water. Hence, I can say with confidence it is easy enough to kill a snake with a solid bullet. A rattler coiled up is a much easier target. They have a bigger head.

The real important factor in preventing snakebite is awareness. If in snake country be aware of your surroundings and where you put your feet. I guess that is good advice anywhere we go in today's crazy world? Maybe you are wanting the snake load for snakes with legs?

ljnowell
September 23, 2012, 03:12 PM
At one time I worked at a fish farm. The garter snakes would eat our little fish. Yes, I carried a Ruger Single Six, and Yes, I killed many a snake, usually as they swam away from me on the water. Hence, I can say with confidence it is easy enough to kill a snake with a solid bullet. A rattler coiled up is a much easier target. They have a bigger head.

Your example just proves even more a need for snake shot. Shooting 22lr at water surface is incredibly dangerous to anyone for about a mile in the direction of that shot, I sure wouldnt admit to doing it.

rfwobbly
September 23, 2012, 11:01 PM
I believe the Speer capsules for 38/357 were recently going for ~$14 for 50. (Prices vary widely, so check several places.) That's a lifetime supply if you're like me. When I walk my fields the first 1 or 2 are snake shot and the rest are slugs. Speer includes the load data in the box with the capsules. Load data is also in the back of your Speer manual. Most any common pistol powder seems to work. I tried 231 and Unique with great results.

GP100man
September 25, 2012, 09:54 PM
1st round has been a shotshell for nearly 20 yrs, now.

I load my own using 357max cases formed to chamber in 357 ,I get twice the shot that you would get in a capsule .

dickttx
September 26, 2012, 12:28 AM
I still have some of the Speer capsuls from years ago but was having trouble fitting them in my .357, so I just bought a box of 10 loaded CCI rounds for $3. Ran out of them last year and the new ones were $15.95.
I always keep a .357 loaded with them for the copperheads. We have a concrete porch completely around our house and the copperheads like to come out of the shrubbery all around it and lie on the porch. With the CCI capsuls you can shoot them on the porch and not mess up the porch.

Certaindeaf
September 26, 2012, 01:51 PM
1st round has been a shotshell for nearly 20 yrs, now.

I load my own using 357max cases formed to chamber in 357 ,I get twice the shot that you would get in a capsule .
That sounds interesting. Can you elaborate on particulars?

flipajig
September 26, 2012, 08:07 PM
I use a 375 soft lead round ball sized to .358 tumbled lubed with some 45-45-10
pice of cardboard cut with a 38 spc case and a cordless drill
4.3 grn of HP 38
65 grn of #8 shot
CCI small pistol primer
First size and prime a 38 spc case.
2)add 4.3 grn of HP-38 or W-231
3)with the help of a dawel add the cardboard over the top of the powder
4)add the 65 grn of # 8 shot
5)seat and crimp the 375 round ball sized and lubed at 358
You may have to play with the seating depth you want to have just the top of the ball sticking out. Basically crimp where the sized ball starts to round off
What you now have is a home made snake shot , rat shot good to about 10'

GP100man
September 27, 2012, 01:12 AM
Sure Certaindeaf .

Trimm 357max cases to .010" under spec.This measurement works for my GPs

Anneal litley (barely change the color very slightly)

Size the case to the shoulder of a 222 rem sizer die (try em in the cyl ,if they don`t push in easily trimm more & size again)

I drop 3.5grs. of something fast burning , Titegroup or Clays is what I have.

Tamp the cardboardcard down tite fill to within1/16" or so to the top (room enuff for another card)I use #9 or #10 chilled magnum (better patterns)

Install top card & run case into sizer & use the shoulder to roll a little crimp on the card (now the push in fit should drop in the cyl)seal with waterproof carpenters glue (give it 24hrs to dry or it`ll smear down the barrel)
http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0228.jpg

Certaindeaf
September 27, 2012, 01:50 AM
Thanks, GP100man. Sounds like a pretty useful/crafty round.

Keeperfaith
September 27, 2012, 12:11 PM
GP100man,
That sounds cool, very ingenous and crafty. But I don't understand why you or how you anneal?

DO you use an oven, boil and what purpose does that serve?

I'm no knocking your recipe, I'm just new to reloading and your recipe seems far advanced from anything I would even think about doing (annealing)...

Also, I don't know what it means to resize the brass w/ a 222 shoulder.

Can you show a pic of the round outside the cylinder.

BTW I used my GP 100 to kill the rattle snake in my back yard... I got up close and personal, I was about one foot away when I took the shot!! Maybe that was too close but I've never used this round and I didn't know the spread...

GP100man
September 27, 2012, 09:07 PM
Keeperfaith

I anneal to prevent case springback of the case.
I anneal by spinning the case in my Lee trimmer holder in a very low flame of a propane torch, barely discoloring the brass , like a 3-4 count ,not seconds ,counts .I`m gonna try the 1/4" socket thing next so I can just tilt the drill & let the brass fall out.

I size first in a regular die then anneal then run the max case to the shoulder where normally the neck shoulder would start , utilizing the almost straight part of the 222 die. After doing the steps of loading I use the shoulder part like a roll crimp on a regular die.

Be careful of rattlers , if proded enuff they can jump better than there body length!!

Here`s a pic of a 357 mag beside a 357 max for comparison.

By the way the case in the pic was my experimental case on annealing & it is too much .

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/shotshells-2.jpg

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