Remington 6-1/2 SRP


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SSN Vet
September 26, 2012, 11:55 AM
Just consumed the last of my Win SRPs.

Back when primers were hard to find.... I picked up a couple boxes of the Rem 6-1/2 thinking that I was lucky to find any at all.

Now I've just noticed this warning label on Midway USA..

Warning:
•Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.

I'm loading .223 Rem for use in an AR.

But.... I can't find this warning on Remingtons web site, and it is not on the primer packaging.

Also, there are feedback reports on Midway from guys saying they use 6-1/2 primers to load .223 Rem without any problems.

So what's the rub? Potency? Hardness? (to prevent slam fire)

I've loaded hundreds of rounds with WSR primers, and have never had a slam fire.

.223 Rem is the only SRP cartridge that I have.... so I'm hoping that I can use the 6-1/2 primers and not have them go to waste.

Any body out there use them for .223 rem?

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243winxb
September 26, 2012, 12:40 PM
The cup is thin, can blow out, causing pock mark in bolt face. Same as CCI 400 primers. IMO. See photo links below.

steve4102
September 26, 2012, 12:43 PM
It's there. Click on "support" then "help center" search "primers"

cfullgraf
September 26, 2012, 12:57 PM
The Remington 7-1/2 primers came about because after Remington introduced the 222 Remington, they had a rash of pierced primers.

The 7-1/2 corrected that problem.

I use the Remington 7-1/2 exclusively in my 17 Remingtons. I am not as fussy with my 223 Remington or 221 Remington Fireballs but I have never tried Remington 6-1/2s for the above reasons.

I might load a few to try but expect the worse.

SSN Vet
September 26, 2012, 07:23 PM
Well, I have already loaded up 60 rounds of my "m193 clones" ... 24.8gr H335 under a 55 gr FMJ pill, using the 6-1/2 primers...

So I'm hoping somebody is going to chime in and say "I've loaded hundreds with 6-1/2 primers and never had a slam fire"

I may be shut down for a while, otherwise.

steve4102
September 26, 2012, 07:41 PM
here ya go.

http://remington.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/167/kw/primers/session/L3RpbWUvMTM0ODY5OTI2My9zaWQvb0ZVdzVmN2w%3D

SSN Vet
September 26, 2012, 07:52 PM
anybody want to trade for 1,900 Remington 6-1/2 primers?

:o

ArchAngelCD
September 27, 2012, 01:07 AM
Sorry Vet but as you now know the 6 1/2 primers are not for .223 ammo. I use only CCI#41, Remington 7 1/2 or in a pinch CCI450 primers for my .223 ammo meant for a semi-auto. CCI400's work just fine in a .223 bolt action rifle...

Walkalong
September 27, 2012, 11:56 AM
anybody want to trade for 1,900 Remington 6-1/2 primers?I would not hesitate to try them in small pistol applications. Back off the charge a hair at first and check velocities compared to your regular load.

Got a .22 Hornet?

SSN Vet
September 27, 2012, 12:20 PM
Make that 2,900 primers :banghead:

Of course, I'm ripe with small pistol primers as well.

But only two sleaves of WSR primers left....

I did load 50 rounds with the 6-1/2 primers before I realized the "warning"...

So I will very carefully shoot these and inspect the fired cases.

cfullgraf
September 27, 2012, 01:54 PM
So I will very carefully shoot these and inspect the fired cases.

The cases will be fine, no different than the other primer that you have used.

Inspect for pierced primers or blown primers.

SSN Vet
September 27, 2012, 05:26 PM
So I will very carefully shoot these and inspect the fired cases for pierced primers.

fixed it...

I'm really, really hoping this turns out to be a non-issue....

my searches haver turned up replies that fall into one of two themes...

1. I used rem 6-1/2 primer for my AR loads and never had a problem.

or ...

2. Don't use them, becasue they gave that warning for a reason and you will most certainly die.


I've yet to find a "I used them in my AR using less than max loads and got pierced primers"

243winxb
September 27, 2012, 08:43 PM
Easy to replace a bolt face,ejector & firing pin on an AR 15. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/M16A1%20Carbine/M16A1Bolt.jpg http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Remington.jpg

Walkalong
September 27, 2012, 09:02 PM
That bolt face has seen repetitive use of high pressure loads leaking around the primer from case heads that have been over expanded from the pressure. That's abuse.

FROGO207
September 27, 2012, 11:12 PM
I loaded about 500 with pull down propellant and 55grain FMJ pulls to duplicate 223 factory and fired them in one of my Mini 14's before I saw the warning. I never observed any problems with them but used the remainder in my .22 Hornet and the MP40 with 9MM+P rounds. I would try a few and see if there are problems If not shoot what you have loaded. I used mostly CCI in my 223 but also purchased some when the shortage was happening for backup stock.

243winxb
September 27, 2012, 11:17 PM
Walkalong, the bolt was damaged by using Federal No. 200 primers which were labeled "Small Rifle Primers and High Velocity Pistol". These primers should never be used in a high pressure round like the 223 Remington. They will blow out on the edge, cutting pock marks in to the bolt face. In 1959, early 60's, Federal sold these primers. Now the 200 is for magnum pistol ONLY. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/Federa200RiflePrimers.jpg If you must use them, load at low pressure under 40,000 PSI. :)

SSN Vet
September 27, 2012, 11:27 PM
$1.29 a sleeve....

them were the good old days :)

ArchAngelCD
September 28, 2012, 12:16 AM
fixed it...

I'm really, really hoping this turns out to be a non-issue....

my searches haver turned up replies that fall into one of two themes...

1. I used rem 6-1/2 primer for my AR loads and never had a problem.

or ...

2. Don't use them, becasue they gave that warning for a reason and you will most certainly die.


I've yet to find a "I used them in my AR using less than max loads and got pierced primers"
I have not tried them personally but a buddy loaded up 500 .223 rounds using the Rem 6 1/2 primers and he did have a problem. I personally saw the pierced primers but the loads were up near the top of the pressure range. (but not overpressure) If you have to use them you might have no problems if you use the starting charge of the powder you choose.

For example, using a 55gr Speer SP bullet Hodgdon is reporting pressures of only 40,800 CUP with a starting charge of H335. I doubt those pressures will cause the primers to pierce, even the Rem 6 1/2 primers. Almost 50,000 CUP with the max charge is a different story of course...

Walkalong
September 28, 2012, 08:12 AM
damaged by using Federal No. 200 primers which were labeled "Small Rifle Primers and High Velocity Pistol".I still have some of those (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=114426&d=1264865830). IIRC, I bought them to try in .22 Hornet. Even so, they shouldn't leak around the edges. Do you have any idea how many rounds it took to do that amount of damage?

243winxb
September 28, 2012, 09:15 AM
Walkalong, no idea how many rounds, out of 1000 primers. Not all primers ruptured. Running on full auto back then, didnt know it was happening till it was to late for the bolt. Primers did not leak around the edge, they blew out on the rounded part of the cup. Yes, i know a leak between the case & primer will produce holes in the primer cup. The same lot number of 10 lbs powder, & 5000 bullets had been loaded over many years. Other primers were not a problem at maximum pressures. A new lot of 5000 CCI 400 primers flow into the firing pin hole, i can not use them at maximum pressures in a Savage Axis. Rem 7 1/2 show no flow, same loading. Had some Rem 9 1/2 that were defective many years ago. They blew out on the rounded edge even at low pressure. Maybe defective Federal 200 primers also??

rbernie
September 28, 2012, 09:20 AM
I would not hesitate to try them in small pistol applications. Back off the charge a hair at first and check velocities compared to your regular load.
This is what I have done without issue, loading 9mm and 38 Special range ammo with the 6 1/2's.

Walkalong
September 28, 2012, 12:00 PM
Primers did not leak around the edge, they blew out on the rounded part of the cup. Interesting, but makes sense, they would be the weakest and the bend.

SSN Vet
September 28, 2012, 12:06 PM
what I loaded so far.... and intend to test is a "warm" load of 24.8 gr H335 pushing a 55 gr Win FMJ bulk bullet from Midway

I've shot several hundred of this load with WSR primers with no issues....

I'll try to give it a wirl this weekend and let you guys know how it goes....

I've been loading .357 mag with WSP primers and 2400 powder and get a lot of black grains when I shoot. I've been under the impression that this is unburnt powder. Maybe I just found my life time supply of mag pistol primers ;)

243winxb
September 28, 2012, 12:34 PM
SSN VET, your loading would seem to produce less pressure than my IMR 4198-21.5gr load with the same bullets. Your powder has a slower burn rate too. The Win bullet does not have a lot of bearing surface, compared to some, less pressure.

FROGO207
September 28, 2012, 06:39 PM
LOL the "lifetime" would be some short for me.:eek: That would only be about 4 months with the way I shoot 357.:D

SSN Vet
September 28, 2012, 06:52 PM
I have been rather into my 1911 & BHP the last few years... While my poor .357 has been out to pasture...

SSN Vet
September 29, 2012, 09:01 PM
I got out to the club today and popped off a dozen rounds loaded with the WSR primer and a dozen loaded with the Rem 6-1/2.

No pierced primers...

No indications of any damage to the bolt face...

Here's a pic of the cases... the Rem primers are the silver ones in the bottom row.

Indents seem about the same, except the one in the bottom left, which did appear to sink in deeper.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=172691&d=1348963237

172691

Any thoughts or comments??

243winxb
September 30, 2012, 05:39 PM
I dont like the looks of the bottom left one. Keep an eye on them. Only about 3% will fail, if any do??

beatledog7
September 30, 2012, 06:45 PM
Agreed. Primer#1 on bottom looks possibly pierced.

I bought some 6-1/2s a while back before I knew about the Remington warning. I have used some of them in my Savage Model 25 (.223 Rem) but loaded them lightly with itty-bitty bullets (as light as 36gr as I recall). No piercings after about a dozen fired. There are about 60 more with up to 40gr "slugs" to be fired.

The 6-1/2s do work quite well in lightly loaded 148gr DEWC target rounds for .38SPL. I just backed off the normal Bullseye weight by .2gr. No issues at all in S&W 642 or Ruger Security Six -- couldn't tell any difference shooting them. Given that, I have no doubt they would work fine in 9mm as well, or even .380 Auto. But since I already know they work in the DEWCs, I'll just use the rest for .38s and call it a lesson.

SSN Vet
September 30, 2012, 08:01 PM
So what's a "normal bullseye load"?

SSN Vet
September 30, 2012, 08:19 PM
There's no daylight coming through the deep indent primer on the lower left, so I don't think it's technically pierced.

I should error on the side of prudence I guess, and not load any more .223 with them.

beatledog7
September 30, 2012, 08:39 PM
By that I meant the classic standard amount of Bullseye powder in a 148gr DEWC for .38SPL, 2.7 or 2.8gr.

I loaded my 6-1/2 Remington DEWCs with 2.5gr.

Hypnogator
October 1, 2012, 01:05 AM
SSN Vet, you might want to take up loading for the M-1 Carbine! ;)

ArchAngelCD
October 1, 2012, 02:04 AM
There's no daylight coming through the deep indent primer on the lower left, so I don't think it's technically pierced.

I should error on the side of prudence I guess, and not load any more .223 with them.
I seriously think you're right, error on the side of safety...

Like you said above, you just found a good supply of primers for your .357 Magnum. Try and find some Rem 7 1/2, CCI #41 or even CCI-400 or CCI-450 primers instead.

Right now I'm down to my last 400 Rem 7 1/2 primers but I do have 1000 CCI-450 primers on the shelf. I can't find any CCI #41 primers without buying online and I don't need enough to justify the $27.50 Hazmat fee. (what a ripoff that is!)

SSN Vet
October 1, 2012, 11:05 AM
SSN Vet, you might want to take up loading for the M-1 Carbine!

An M1 carbine is definately on my short list... and I would definately reload for it, should I get one.

Prices just seam ridiculous though...

I should have jumped in when CMP had a glut of them a few years back.

ArchAngelCD
October 1, 2012, 01:35 PM
An M1 carbine is definately on my short list... and I would definately reload for it, should I get one.

Prices just seam ridiculous though...

I should have jumped in when CMP had a glut of them a few years back.
You and me both brother. I bought a Garand and a 1093 Springfield but I didn't get to the M1 Carbine before they ran out of them. They were a good deal at the time...

steve4102
October 1, 2012, 07:55 PM
Yup, bottom left is pierced and the one to it's right looks close.

ArchAngelCD
October 1, 2012, 10:20 PM
Yup, bottom left is pierced and the one to it's right looks close.
I agree, both bottom left primers don't look good.

SSN Vet
October 2, 2012, 12:15 PM
Please educate me here...

I was under the impression that I would see daylight through a pierced primer.

cfullgraf
October 2, 2012, 12:28 PM
Please educate me here...

I was under the impression that I would see daylight through a pierced primer.

Probably not. The center of the anvil covers the flash hole. The openings in the anvil do not line up with the flash hole.

Certaindeaf
October 2, 2012, 12:31 PM
Stick one end in water and and blow on the other and look for bubbles, not that the human mouth can produce 50-60000 psi but you understand. It looks failed to me too.

SSN Vet
October 2, 2012, 04:19 PM
Well ... after a trip to KTP last night... I'm back to using WSR primer... as they were out of Rem 7-1/2 and CCI 41s

According to the info I found on line, the cup thickness of the WSR is only a couple thou thicker than the Rem 6-1/2, but the alloy must be harder, as I've never had a primer come out of my AR looking like the one in my photo above. Nor have I ever had a slam fire.

So I'm back to where I started.... using WSR.

Between hazmat fees and stores always being out of stock, sourcing primers has to be the biggest pita about reloading....

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