Newbie with questions on 9mm for Glock 19 target load


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jlm83082
September 27, 2012, 12:05 AM
Gents,
So here are my questions: And below that is all my data and setup.

1. Is the discoloration on the brass from low pressure, high pressure or is it meaningless? Picture should be attached.

2. On the taper crimp, how can I tell if it is crimped right? too little/too much? I am noticing a ring around the top of the round after the seating die, is this normal? Is it a problem? I believe it is being left from the seating stem, maybe the rainer rounds are just extremely soft? Possibly have too much crimp(crimping stem seated too low, causing excess pressure on the round from the seating stem?)

3. Sizing die: Whats the best way to test it to ensure it is actually set correctly?

4. Titegroup powder: Using the hornady powder measure with the small pistol rotor, I am finding that it is not consistent at all. When I finally get one case with ex. 4.0 gr the next one might be 3.7 or 4.3, seems to bounce all over from plus/minus .3gr. Anyone else have this issue? Recommendations?

I have recently completed the setup of my new Hornady LNL Ammo plant. My dies are setup in the following manner.

S1. RCBS Carbide resizer/deprimer
S2. Hornady PTX Expander/Powder drop
S3. Hornady Powder COP
S4. Hornady Bullet feeder die
S5. Hornady Series 2 Seater die with taper crimp

Shell plate #8

I am only concerned with loading 9mm at this current time.

Below are the components I have been using thus far:
Bullets: Rainer 115gr RN
Primer: Remington 1.5 Small Pistol
Brass: Remington
Powder: Titegroup

Bear with me, I have a lot of data from the past 3 days of loading and shooting on the chronograph. You'll notice in loads 8 and 9 I am using the recommended MAX from the Speer and Nosler manual. I mention this because of the discoloration I am getting on the brass. Everything I have read says the discoloration on the brass is due to a low pressure issue not causing the brass to fully expanded in the chamber and correctly seal.

Load 1
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.0 gr
COAL 1.135"

Chrono
Shot 1 1027.67
Shot 2 980.47
Shot 3 1037.00
Shot 4 1016.03
Shot 5 999.83
Shot 6 999.09
Shot 7 1025.84
Shot 8 957.59
Shot 9 961.47
Shot 10 946.66

Deveation
Spread 90.34
Average 995.16

Load 2
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.0 gr
COAL 1.125"

Chrono
Shot 1 1004.39
Shot 2 1006.23
Shot 3 999.66
Shot 4 964.07
Shot 5 952.54
Shot 6 993.43
Shot 7 999.00
Shot 8 0
Shot 9 0
Shot 10 0

Deveation
Spread 53.69
Average 988.47

Load 3
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.0 gr
COAL 1.100"

Chrono
Shot 1 1021.00
Shot 2 1005.81
Shot 3 1012.96
Shot 4 1089.94
Shot 5 1024.63
Shot 6 1030.47
Shot 7 1030.47
Shot 8 0
Shot 9 0
Shot 10 0

Deveation
Spread 84.13
Average 1030.75

Load 4
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.2 gr
COAL 1.150"

Chrono
Shot 1 1059.79
Shot 2 1078.20
Shot 3 1071.42
Shot 4 1089.94
Shot 5 996.21
Shot 6 1082.54
Shot 7 1091.12
Shot 8 1067.74
Shot 9 1131.41
Shot 10 1077.33

Deveation 33.68
Spread 135.2
Average 1074.57

Load 5
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.2 gr
COAL 1.140"

Chrono
Shot 1 1070.47
Shot 2 1060.35
Shot 3 1068.21
Shot 4 1032.58
Shot 5 1089.65
Shot 6 1066.98
Shot 7 1071.23
Shot 8 1074.85
Shot 9 1031.96
Shot 10 1077.14

Deveation 18.62
Spread 57.69
Average 1064.34

Load 6
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.2 gr
COAL 1.135"

Chrono
Shot 1 1085.16
Shot 2 1070.76
Shot 3 1079.83
Shot 4 1090.63
Shot 5 1093.09
Shot 6 1084.96
Shot 7 1056.65
Shot 8 1124.89
Shot 9 1057.94
Shot 10 0

Deveation 20.66
Spread 68.24
Average 1082.65

Load 7
Bullet Rainer 115 gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.2 gr
COAL 1.125"

Chrono
Shot 1 1066.51
Shot 2 1045.78
Shot 3 1091.52
Shot 4 1040.48
Shot 5 1067.36
Shot 6 1076.38
Shot 7 1061.09
Shot 8 1077.72
Shot 9 1075.80
Shot 10 1068.96

Deveation 15.16
Spread 51.04
Average 1067.16

Load 8
Bullet Rainer 115gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.5
COAL 1.140"

Chrono
Shot 1 810.67
Shot 2 1111.18
Shot 3 1134.59
Shot 4 1120.00
Shot 5 1114.74
Shot 6 1087.40
Shot 7 1096.26
Shot 8 1121.55
Shot 9 1118.03
Shot 10 1139.82

Deveation 98.24
Spread 329.15
Average 1086.52

Load 9
Bullet Rainer 115gr RN
Primer Remington 1.5
Brass Remington
Powder Titegroup 4.5
COAL 1.125"

Chrono
Shot 1 883.83
Shot 2 1165.95
Shot 3 1120.93
Shot 4 1153.73
Shot 5 1144.46
Shot 6 1165.95
Shot 7 1150.55
Shot 8 1137.04
Shot 9 1158.48
Shot 10 1130.14

Deveation 84.72
Spread 282.12
Average 1121.1


Thanks for making it this far down the post and for any help and recommendations in resolving my issues. If you need more information or data let me know.

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bds
September 27, 2012, 12:45 AM
Newbie with questions on 9mm for Glock 19 target load ... Is the discoloration on the brass from low pressure, high pressure or is it meaningless? Picture should be attached.
Titegroup burns hot and probably causing discoloration on the case known as "Titegrou burn". Picture would help.


On the taper crimp, how can I tell if it is crimped right? too little/too much?
Rainier Ballistics (http://www.rainierballistics.com/faq.php) recommends light taper crimp
Q4. What type of crimp should I use?
A. A slight taper crimp is what we recommend. Lee Factory Crimp Die.
Rainier plated bullets are sized same as jacketed at .355". As rcmodel usually suggests, I will add .021" to the diameter of the bullet so for .355" diameter bullet, I will use .376" taper crimp.


I am noticing a ring around the top of the round after the seating die, is this normal? Is it a problem? I believe it is being left from the seating stem, maybe the rainer rounds are just extremely soft?
Normal. Probably from the seating stem. I use Lee dies and do not get the ring on my plated RN bullets but get the ring on jacketed FMJ bullets. It is how the bullet seating stem is shaped vs the bullet nose profile used whether you'll get the ring or not.


Sizing die: Whats the best way to test it to ensure it is actually set correctly?
- Remove all the dies from the press
- Bring the shell plate carrier all the way up and hold ram lever
- Screw in the resizing die until the bottom of the die barely kisses the top of the shell plate (you may need to readjust the resizing die once you have your shell plate full of cases and the resizing die won't fully resize down to the shell plate).


BTW, I usually don't recommend Titegroup to a new reloader, especially if you are having inconsistent powder drop issues for narrow .3-.4 gr start-to-max range. Perhaps Hornady press owners can help with metering Titegroup better.


Recommendations?
- I would first work on getting the powder drop consistency variance down to .1 gr
- Set the taper crimp to .376" for .355" diameter bullets
- Use the barrel drop test to determine the Max OAL (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678)
- Starting with the Max OAL, feed/chamber from the magazine by manually releasing the slide to determine the Ideal working OAL that works with your pistol/barrel/magazine (incrementally decrease OAL - say by .005" until rounds feed reliably)
- Then conduct the powder work up to identify the load with the lowest SD or smallest consistent shot groups

bds
September 27, 2012, 01:19 AM
Yup, Titegroup burn. Don't worry about it. Tumble in walnut media/NuFinish polish to clean the case and reload as usual.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=172544&stc=1&d=1348723102

john16443
September 27, 2012, 10:15 AM
4. Titegroup powder: Using the hornady powder measure with the small pistol rotor, I am finding that it is not consistent at all. When I finally get one case with ex. 4.0 gr the next one might be 3.7 or 4.3, seems to bounce all over from plus/minus .3gr. Anyone else have this issue? Recommendations?

I meter Titegroup through my Hornady powder dispenser with very good weight consistency of +/- 0.05 grains or less. I have replaced the pistol rotor with the micrometer type rotor, but that shouldn't make any difference as a given setting should throw the same weight. I don't use the PTX set-up, but again, don't think that makes a difference with consistency.

Couple things to consider:

1) have you thouroughly cleaned ane removed all traces of oil on all the internal surfaces of the measure and the PTX tubes inside before using it?
2) Are you filling the measure at least halfway full?
3) Are you using the baffle plate that came with the dispenser?
4) Are you running and dumping about 10 complete charges before weighing and seating a bullet? This should be done with any measure.
5) Is the die adjusted so that the rotor moves the entire stoke of travel?

As bds has already indicated, that burn is typical of Titegroup powder, and not necessarily the result of weak charges.

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